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Twoside Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.12 15:49:00 - [91] Originally by: LoveKebab Edited by: LoveKebab on 12/12/2008 13:37:42 Originally by: Tholarim Originally by: Afale II Edited by: Afale II on 12/12/2008 02:19:43 Originally by: Viper **zIe [16:12] <> so evoke just confirmed it was KIA [16:13] <> aswell [16:13] <> LOL [16:13] <> bahaha [16:13] <> eddz down [16:13] <> no apparently [16:13] <> they changed all their pos fits [16:13] <> before this hit that's enough proof where is the inquisitor? Yeh i heard about a thread on RZR forums about molle apparently being banned to! fred0 is always telling ** man, last time i heard TRI was also involved but i stoped listening to what he says the day i left rzr every1 who stand against NC combined forces for more than 3 days has to cheat... **, i personally type "give all" durning loading screen to multiply my isk by x2 we never said you cheat, proof or stfu. The only thing we ever said is that you're incredibly dumb, which you keep proving over and over again :)
Moonlight Express Amarr Moonlight Express Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.12 15:55:00 - [92] So where is our newly voted players team to make sure that the CCP employees that ignored the exploit are not in the alliances that benefited from the exploit giving them an unfair advantage for years? Say what you will about me, but this smells like bull at the highest level and should be investigated by that team. CCP with their track record can not be trusted.
Thuffyr Ewwith Caldari Multiverse Corporation Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.12.12 15:57:00 - [93] Edited by: Thuffyr Ewwith on 12/12/2008 15:58:33 Originally by: moppinator Still we want to apologize to the whole EvE Online Community for our failure at discovering the actions of that group of former members ourselves. They have fooled and disappointed us even more than they did you. regards Well, if it is really true that your corp was getting financial advantage by cheating, I am sure that you was not disappointed by these advantages! And of course, prisons all around the real world are full of innocents persons, so I am almost ready to understand that you all are innocent also... CCP ban only innocent peoples, it is well known... T. edit: font
mamolian Gallente Cruoris Seraphim Exalted.	Posted - 2008.12.12 15:57:00 - [94] Was Tom Mccash banned? -----------
Rexthor Hammerfists Caldari Rage of Inferno	Posted - 2008.12.12 16:10:00 - [95] A bloody shame to see evoke involved - Boosters and PirateProfessions
Aerick Dawn Gallente Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate	Posted - 2008.12.12 16:17:00 - [96] Disband your alliance in shame, seriously, your not fooling anyone to state that HC had no idea what was going on __________________ If I'm in a fair fight, i've done something terribly wrong.
Princess Jodi Gallente Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.12 16:30:00 - [97] Sorry, but apology rejected here as well. Evoke leadership really needs to consider the taint that was put on Bob because of past cheating. Your alliance will NEVER be considered clean again. Reality or not, the Perception is that you knowingly harbored cheaters. I spent 2 years fueling pos's who's products were then sold for minimal profit due to this. No way I'm personally gonna forgive the cheaters for stealing my profits.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.12.12 16:39:00 - [98] Originally by: Moonlight Express So where is our newly voted players team to make sure that the CCP employees that ignored the exploit are not in the alliances that benefited from the exploit giving them an unfair advantage for years? They are going to have a meeting this weekend with CCP.
Mark Amarr Amarr Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.12 16:49:00 - [99] Originally by: Avernus Originally by: Moonlight Express Just like others in alliances that were exposed of cheating, Ev0ke will forever be labeled as cheaters regardless if majority of your membership did not know about it. It might not be fair, but that's how it is in EVE. Apology rejected. Disagree. Some like labels, others have a brain. Disagree also - if only from the viewpoint that, since we pretty much all accept that all alliances have spies, if it was general knowledge within an alliance that practices like this were possible (let alone actually happening) that general alliance knowledge would soon get out. Since this clearly did not happen, I'm quite ready to believe that this activity was a closely guarded secret of one, or very few individuals. Props to you on this one, ev0ke.
ElCoCo Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.12 16:56:00 - [100] Originally by: Avan Strega Originally by: KIAEddZ Tbh, we are a fkin poor Alliance taking quote out of context here for lols Confirming your out of context quote! Boink!
hantwo Amarr S.A.S Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.12.12 16:56:00 - [101] Originally by: Astasia Orian lol how did we spank G so badly in fountain when they had infinite money? :( theres always one gobby little muppet ^^ Why me eh?
RahSun Minmatar Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:04:00 - [102] Originally by: thoth foc Given how your allies have acted in the past over such things, i'll be interested in how this turns out.. The thing is, this time around CCP is actually trying to remove the ill gotten assets funded by exploits. I don't think they took the t2 items already built or the profits, ships, ammo, etc. when they pulled the BPOs from your corp. Maybe they're learning.
Vengal Seyhan Minmatar Sten Industries	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:07:00 - [103] Originally by: CCP Navigator Please keep the thread on topic'. Accussing other players, corporations or alliances of cheating based on hearsay, speculation or just "this is what I think" is not permitted and may result in a warning or ban. Fair enough point, I think. FYI : I asked some of my real life friends in Razor about this exploit. They knew about it for over a year but didn't take advantage of it. It seems half of Eve knew about it :P It makes me feel sorry for my friend in my corp who was grinding the maintenance for 4 large POSes making ferrogel the hard way - hauling in from Jita and reselling back there afterward. One of the big root causes of this is that the petition and bug report systems don't work together. Bug reporting is ****ing unweildy and has to be done out-of-game. Usually the process starts : I notice something amiss; petition it; get a reply that it should be bug reported; drop the matter and move on. 90% of the time I can't be arsed to spawn an external window and go through the hassle of logging in, etc etc etc. I have more fun and interesting things to do that wrestle with the bug report system (it's a game after all, and I pay to play... not get paid by CCP to do QA work). Effcient in-game bug reporting (including referrals of petitions by GMs) might have helped to get this exploit noticed and attended to a lot earlier. (- especially since all the third party forums are indicating that this was initially petitioned waaaay back in 2005, and went to exploit when -unethical- people got unsatisfactory responses to their petitions).
darth solo Caldari Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:16:00 - [104] im hearing stuff that makes me angry. Its possible that MASSIVE cash injections were given to certain groups in eve to "make sure" that wars were won. Im even seeing that some may have involved my own alliance in the north. EVOKE moving a massive capital fleet, freighters and titans into the INSURGENY hq system in the north caused us massive ammounts of problems, i never did quite understand how such a small group had such amazing hardware. Im starting to feel totally cheated tbh because i worked my ass off in the north to make things work, i may as well have not bothered. grrrrrrrrrrr. d solo.
LoveKebab Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:23:00 - [105] Edited by: LoveKebab on 12/12/2008 17:25:41 Originally by: Twoside Originally by: LoveKebab fred0 is always telling ** man, last time i heard TRI was also involved but i stoped listening to what he says the day i left rzr every1 who stand against NC combined forces for more than 3 days has to cheat... , i personally type "give all" durning loading screen to multiply my isk by x2 we never said you cheat, proof or stfu. The only thing we ever said is that you're incredibly dumb, which you keep proving over and over again :) u r such an awsome guy i looked for exact quote of what ur beloved alliance leader said in diferent thread: Originally by:** Fred0 On the other hand TRI and it's wealthy individuals are prime suspects of having abused this bug in my book. i gonna end dragging tri vs nc stuff into this topic as it should be all about laughing @ ev0ke and entire AMT whos leader was invoved in exploiting this **** for at least couple months
O Thief Amarr The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:34:00 - [106] Originally by: darth solo im hearing stuff that makes me angry. Its possible that MASSIVE cash injections were given to certain groups in eve to "make sure" that wars were won. Im even seeing that some may have involved my own alliance in the north. EVOKE moving a massive capital fleet, freighters and titans into the INSURGENY hq system in the north caused us massive ammounts of problems, i never did quite understand how such a small group had such amazing hardware. Im starting to feel totally cheated tbh because i worked my ass off in the north to make things work, i may as well have not bothered. grrrrrrrrrrr. d solo. Yes, the time when they moved in with about a dozen motherships and a few titans was a 'wtf' moment... I thought it might have been old G/TRUST/D2 wealth. But it seems that old wealth wasn't as clean as perhaps thought...
Wesley Baird Caldari BURN EDEN Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:37:00 - [107] Originally by: Vengal Seyhan One of the big root causes of this is that the petition and bug report systems don't work together. Bug reporting is **ing unweildy and has to be done out-of-game. Usually the process starts : I notice something amiss; petition it; get a reply that it should be bug reported; drop the matter and move on. 90% of the time I can't be arsed to spawn an external window and go through the hassle of logging in, etc etc etc. I have more fun and interesting things to do that wrestle with the bug report system (it's a game after all, and I pay to play... not get paid by CCP to do QA work). Agreed, bug reporting in a game of such complexity is ****edly cumbersome. Why they dont tie it to the petition system with a way to auto-attach the correct information (ie, system config and log to the bug report from the petition window) is beyond me.
Moonlight Express Amarr Moonlight Express Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:39:00 - [108] Edited by: Moonlight Express on 12/12/2008 17:42:10 Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: Moonlight Express So where is our newly voted players team to make sure that the CCP employees that ignored the exploit are not in the alliances that benefited from the exploit giving them an unfair advantage for years? They are going to have a meeting this weekend with CCP. In that case I hope that they inform the public of exactly who the devs were and which alliance they belonged to right after their employement is terminated from CCP. Also, what capital BPO were purchased by these individuals or persons receiving isk from them and which alliances received ships built from those BPO that helped them in their war effort. Imo, they should all be banned and at least the super capitals built from those exploited founds be removed from the game.
Moxyll Gallente coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:41:00 - [109] Originally by: Pettu Originally by: Helen And I thought the drama was all in TRI at the moment. What, we have drama ? Dude, move your navy mega off of the Aunenen gate, you're messing up our pirating!
Emywn Vanya Caldari Redemption or Retribution Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:41:00 - [110] @ Evoke I feel for you guys that had no idea what was going on. As for the alliance as a whole; personally I would disband. The name is going to be associated with cheaters rightly or wrongly and that will never go away. (look at BoB... one small event and everyone still brings it up). Then again maybe this will make you guys a better group. Either way fly safe. ----------------------- The answer is 42
Stalina Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad	Posted - 2008.12.12 18:24:00 - [111] Originally by: darth solo im hearing stuff that makes me angry. Its possible that MASSIVE cash injections were given to certain groups in eve to "make sure" that wars were won. Im even seeing that some may have involved my own alliance in the north. EVOKE moving a massive capital fleet, freighters and titans into the INSURGENY hq system in the north caused us massive ammounts of problems, i never did quite understand how such a small group had such amazing hardware. Im starting to feel totally cheated tbh because i worked my ass off in the north to make things work, i may as well have not bothered. grrrrrrrrrrr. d solo. Now thats some serious whine. Get over it.
Orree Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.12 18:30:00 - [112] Originally by: darth solo Im just a little hacked off that iv been trying to compete with ppl that have cheated for years tbh. always wondered why so many of you were able to afford all the toys and prolong the wars while my lads have had to work like bears. anyways. i picked a good time to move away from 0.0 alliance stuff it seems, I dont think ill ever really trust CCP to make this game fair. d solo. While I agree it is disheartening on one level, I still feel confident at least that far greater number of us have worked hard for what we have than the number of people who perpetrated this and other exploits. It's hard, at least at this point, to quantify the extent to which the game has been harmed or how these events have shaped the game as it is today. I'm also troubled by the fact that this thing has been out there for so long and it seems that many people tried to point the situation out to CCP and it just either got ignored or somehow fell through the cracks. It seems kind of crazy to me. /me thinks again about all that time spent grinding Guristas in Tribute for 20m an hour trying to earn the isk for the Amarr titan skillbook... "How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli
Karash Amerius Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.12.12 18:37:00 - [113] Originally by: Janu Hull CCP missed it on two counts. One, its probably more data than a team of statistics experts can handle. Simple overload and focused efforts elsewhere (ISK farmers) likely kept them from looking too closely at what could be assumed to be players once again exceeding expectations for production. Secondly, it might just be information they weren't actively monitoring, since the usual issues with economics begins and ends at the actual currency level. As far as the alliance leaderships go, your average PvP pilot in an alliance (the type who tend to also be the leaders of those PvP alliances) knows ** all about industry beyond "it generates ISK to buy me ships so I can pewpew". Most of them can't be arsed with it because of the "carebear" stigma. So as long as the money flows, and the carebear corps x-up for alliance ops and the occassional roam, they're perfectly happy in complete **ing darkness about how the furries make them ISK. Even if they do know industry, the odds are they've never looked close enough at the mechanics to see the exploits that a full on industrial player may notice, so the other assumption would be "damn, they're good at this" and leave it at that. Pretty spot on btw. ____________________________________________ "Fighting Broke" - An Ex-Merc Blog
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.12.12 18:38:00 - [114] Originally by: darth solo im hearing stuff that makes me angry. Its possible that MASSIVE cash injections were given to certain groups in eve to "make sure" that wars were won. Im even seeing that some may have involved my own alliance in the north. EVOKE moving a massive capital fleet, freighters and titans into the INSURGENY hq system in the north caused us massive ammounts of problems, i never did quite understand how such a small group had such amazing hardware. Im starting to feel totally cheated tbh because i worked my ass off in the north to make things work, i may as well have not bothered. grrrrrrrrrrr. d solo. I definitely see your point Darth. It is a very very poor situation. To be honest I think Ev0ke would be better off disbanding at this point with the remaining players doing their best to go about their own things and rebuild a reputation outside the tainted brand that Ev0ke now definitely will become. There are some huge issues here, many things were achieved with the resources available to these players and who knows how things would have turned out differently in certain 0.0 regions if everybody was playing on an even playing field. From 0.0 campaigns, to economic advantage and acquisition, to alliance tournament results. Who knows how much was truly impacted by this. Basically. Ev0ke should fold. CCP need to conduct a detailed, exhaustive AND transparent investigation into this and we as players need to be honestly informed as to how far reaching the impact of this cheating has been. It really does need naming and shaming this time around in the greater interests of the game of Eve online and the continuing enjoyment of the remaining honest players. ISSUE - Bring back live events
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.12.12 19:18:00 - [115] Originally by: Karash Amerius Originally by: Janu Hull CCP missed it on two counts. One, its probably more data than a team of statistics experts can handle. Simple overload and focused efforts elsewhere (ISK farmers) likely kept them from looking too closely at what could be assumed to be players once again exceeding expectations for production. Secondly, it might just be information they weren't actively monitoring, since the usual issues with economics begins and ends at the actual currency level. As far as the alliance leaderships go, your average PvP pilot in an alliance (the type who tend to also be the leaders of those PvP alliances) knows ** all about industry beyond "it generates ISK to buy me ships so I can pewpew". Most of them can't be arsed with it because of the "carebear" stigma. So as long as the money flows, and the carebear corps x-up for alliance ops and the occassional roam, they're perfectly happy in complete ing darkness about how the furries make them ISK. Even if they do know industry, the odds are they've never looked close enough at the mechanics to see the exploits that a full on industrial player may notice, so the other assumption would be "damn, they're good at this" and leave it at that. Pretty spot on btw. Thanks. I didn't mean that mockingly, either. It's just how EVE is. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.**
mamolian Gallente Cruoris Seraphim Exalted.	Posted - 2008.12.12 19:18:00 - [116] Pretty ridiculous recommending they disband tbh.. Keep your head up high.. and work through it. With that said.. ****ing cheaters -----------
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.12.12 19:26:00 - [117] Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 12/12/2008 18:39:41 Originally by: darth solo im hearing stuff that makes me angry. Its possible that MASSIVE cash injections were given to certain groups in eve to "make sure" that wars were won. Im even seeing that some may have involved my own alliance in the north. EVOKE moving a massive capital fleet, freighters and titans into the INSURGENY hq system in the north caused us massive ammounts of problems, i never did quite understand how such a small group had such amazing hardware. Im starting to feel totally cheated tbh because i worked my ass off in the north to make things work, i may as well have not bothered. grrrrrrrrrrr. d solo. I definitely see your point Darth. It is a very very poor situation. To be honest I think Ev0ke would be better off disbanding at this point with the remaining players doing their best to go about their own things and rebuild a reputation outside the tainted brand that Ev0ke now definitely will become. There are some huge issues here, many things were achieved with the resources available to these players and who knows how things would have turned out differently in certain 0.0 regions if everybody was playing on an even playing field. From 0.0 campaigns, to economic advantage and acquisition, to alliance tournament results. Who knows how much was truly impacted by this. Basically. Ev0ke should fold. CCP need to conduct a detailed, exhaustive AND transparent investigation into this and we as players need to be honestly informed as to how far reaching the impact of this cheating has been. It really does need naming and shaming of corporations and alliance advantage this time around in the greater interests of the game of Eve online and the continuing enjoyment of the remaining honest players. Reputations can be rebuilt, given time. If Ev0ke folds, let it be because they can't survive without the exploit backing them. If there's any "justice" that comes out of this, let it be that, and that alone. This isn't some little tea party game of policy and diplomacy we play, EVE's a constant trial by combat. Right now, the people who remain in Ev0ke (who likely had no idea what was going on) have something to prove to us. If they care enough about their alliance, and by extension the game, they can prove it on the battlefield. If they can handle the heat from the fallout of this exploit, then as far as I'm concerned, they can keep the name and go on. I fully believe they're going to be facing all comers here before too long, especially alliances they've probably held the line against with the economic benefit from this exploit. I'm only sorry Terra Incognita left Vanguard, because I'd be one of the first to have a crack at them. I miss fighting them in Venal already. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
Adelphie Caldari R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2008.12.12 19:58:00 - [118] Originally by: Janu Hull I'm only sorry Terra Incognita left Vanguard, because I'd be one of the first to have a crack at them. I miss fighting them in Venal already. To be honest I feel pretty sorry for the Vanguard alliance in general. Getting station camped by multiple supercaps for weeks on end is enough to put strain on any small alliance. In this case it was a strain which in part led not only to the departure of myself, but several other corps from the alliance (although glad to see some rebuilding going on). I used to have respect for Evoke for overpowering us with a mightier cap fleet then ours, however I always felt that when it came down to a good even fight Evoke often came out as losers. Now we learn that we were cheated out of a potential victory. Along with many other pilots who have fought those involved with this cheating I am not as bothered by the isk made from dishonesty more the isk of the honest which has been lost due to cheating that really gets on my ****. Yes I am a bit bitter, and yes we probably still would have lost but the principle still stands!
Adelphie Caldari R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2008.12.12 20:02:00 - [119] Edited by: Adelphie on 12/12/2008 20:02:11 Originally by: Janu Hull As far as the alliance leaderships go, your average PvP pilot in an alliance (the type who tend to also be the leaders of those PvP alliances) knows **** all about industry beyond "it generates ISK to buy me ships so I can pewpew". I'll let that one slip. Now make me a ship to pewpew in carebear.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.12.12 20:12:00 - [120] Originally by: Adelphie Originally by: Janu Hull I'm only sorry Terra Incognita left Vanguard, because I'd be one of the first to have a crack at them. I miss fighting them in Venal already. To be honest I feel pretty sorry for the Vanguard alliance in general. Getting station camped by multiple supercaps for weeks on end is enough to put strain on any small alliance. In this case it was a strain which in part led not only to the departure of myself, but several other corps from the alliance (although glad to see some rebuilding going on). I used to have respect for Evoke for overpowering us with a mightier cap fleet then ours, however I always felt that when it came down to a good even fight Evoke often came out as losers. Now we learn that we were cheated out of a potential victory. Along with many other pilots who have fought those involved with this cheating I am not as bothered by the isk made from dishonesty more the isk of the honest which has been lost due to cheating that really gets on my **. Yes I am a bit bitter, and yes we probably still would have lost but the principle still stands! I hear you. One of the reasons we finally pulled out was the loss of access to a station system. There were other reasons, but if we had managed to hold onto PF-, we may have stuck it out. As it was, I personally hated leaving, especially how we left, because it cost me the friendship of a lot of people I still respect the hell out of, Dark included. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.**

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