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Arthur Guinness
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Posted - 2004.07.16 08:56:00 -
[1]
Yes i guess everyone know this attribute of your ship, Shield Recharge Rate.
As it is, it's more or less useless, even by fitting pdu's it will not be low enough to really help.
Now i do think, it's time that TomB/Eight has a look at it.
I don't believe the short term solution for ³ber shield tanking apoc (Cap relay nerf), works as planned. So really, now is the time to go the long way, which means fixing/adjusting all modules that have apositive or negative effect on the shield recharge rate. Also base shield recharge rates of caldari and minmatar ships needs to be looked at.
Or does anyone here really think the current situationw ith shield vs armor tanking is fully and finally balanced? Imo it's time to sort it now. Before shiva, even if this means we have to wait for other things, i rather play a balanced game with current ships than with unbalanced tech1 and tech2 ships. |
Arthur Guinness
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Posted - 2004.07.16 08:56:00 -
[2]
Yes i guess everyone know this attribute of your ship, Shield Recharge Rate.
As it is, it's more or less useless, even by fitting pdu's it will not be low enough to really help.
Now i do think, it's time that TomB/Eight has a look at it.
I don't believe the short term solution for ³ber shield tanking apoc (Cap relay nerf), works as planned. So really, now is the time to go the long way, which means fixing/adjusting all modules that have apositive or negative effect on the shield recharge rate. Also base shield recharge rates of caldari and minmatar ships needs to be looked at.
Or does anyone here really think the current situationw ith shield vs armor tanking is fully and finally balanced? Imo it's time to sort it now. Before shiva, even if this means we have to wait for other things, i rather play a balanced game with current ships than with unbalanced tech1 and tech2 ships. |
Zyranyth
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Posted - 2004.07.16 13:26:00 -
[3]
Whatever you would do with shield recharge?
Even if it only took one minute to recharge 100%,
it would be useless in combat. Totally.
Only reason I can see why anyone would want shield
recharge rate upped, is that armour tankers would get
their initial buffer restored in between fights
without needing to dock or waste a slot in order to
mount a shield booster.
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Zyranyth
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Posted - 2004.07.16 13:26:00 -
[4]
Whatever you would do with shield recharge?
Even if it only took one minute to recharge 100%,
it would be useless in combat. Totally.
Only reason I can see why anyone would want shield
recharge rate upped, is that armour tankers would get
their initial buffer restored in between fights
without needing to dock or waste a slot in order to
mount a shield booster.
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Dentali
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Posted - 2004.07.16 13:41:00 -
[5]
EHm... shields are powered by energy so docking fully refuels them.
Armor tanking needs to be nerfed end of that. If they are taking the strongest attribute of a raven (sheild tanking) away then they need to take armor tanking away from the Apoc. While we are at it, why dont we just nerf everything? We can make the turrets have damage modifiers of 0.02x and it will be a dandy fun 1000000 hour battle to kill a battleship. Fleet engagements would be so fun! Frigates would become higher powered than battleship! Itd be GREAT!
....
Armor tanking seriously needs to be nerfed or you need to unnerf shield tanking. At this point people who Armor tank like it and will use it rather than shield tanking and people that are shield tanking and like shield tanking will be able to shield tank. However, making the Apocaylpse the god beast of EVE is not even appropriate considering that if there is a fleet of 5 Apocalypses armor tanked against a fleet of 5 Tempests set for even the highest of damage... the Apocalypses can sit there and tank the damage from all 5 Tempests and survive.........
So is said. |
Dentali
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Posted - 2004.07.16 13:41:00 -
[6]
EHm... shields are powered by energy so docking fully refuels them.
Armor tanking needs to be nerfed end of that. If they are taking the strongest attribute of a raven (sheild tanking) away then they need to take armor tanking away from the Apoc. While we are at it, why dont we just nerf everything? We can make the turrets have damage modifiers of 0.02x and it will be a dandy fun 1000000 hour battle to kill a battleship. Fleet engagements would be so fun! Frigates would become higher powered than battleship! Itd be GREAT!
....
Armor tanking seriously needs to be nerfed or you need to unnerf shield tanking. At this point people who Armor tank like it and will use it rather than shield tanking and people that are shield tanking and like shield tanking will be able to shield tank. However, making the Apocaylpse the god beast of EVE is not even appropriate considering that if there is a fleet of 5 Apocalypses armor tanked against a fleet of 5 Tempests set for even the highest of damage... the Apocalypses can sit there and tank the damage from all 5 Tempests and survive.........
So is said. |
Bobba
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Posted - 2004.07.16 14:22:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Bobba on 16/07/2004 14:24:43
There is med slot and low slot moduls to mount and increas the recharge rate of the shield, but they sucks atm. TomB should take alook at these moduls so "shield user's" got a alternativ for the shield booster. I suppose that the idea from the start was that. As they are now they are useless, and must get some love from the dev's. |
Bobba
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Posted - 2004.07.16 14:22:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Bobba on 16/07/2004 14:24:43
There is med slot and low slot moduls to mount and increas the recharge rate of the shield, but they sucks atm. TomB should take alook at these moduls so "shield user's" got a alternativ for the shield booster. I suppose that the idea from the start was that. As they are now they are useless, and must get some love from the dev's. |
Hellek
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Posted - 2004.07.16 15:22:00 -
[9]
I wonder why you all have so big problems with the tanking abilities of the apoc. If you nerf armor tanking, then please make the cap bonus a damage bonus as the cap will be useless. Apoc got no damage bonus, therefore deals less damage than the other ships, and therefore of course is the best tank.
The problem with shield recharge is:
If you fit 5 PDUs, its already useful, recharging about 15 shield per second (which is about 15% of what a named XL can boost per second and it comes totally free without any cap need), and making it even stronger would make shieldtanks way too powerful.
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Hellek
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Posted - 2004.07.16 15:22:00 -
[10]
I wonder why you all have so big problems with the tanking abilities of the apoc. If you nerf armor tanking, then please make the cap bonus a damage bonus as the cap will be useless. Apoc got no damage bonus, therefore deals less damage than the other ships, and therefore of course is the best tank.
The problem with shield recharge is:
If you fit 5 PDUs, its already useful, recharging about 15 shield per second (which is about 15% of what a named XL can boost per second and it comes totally free without any cap need), and making it even stronger would make shieldtanks way too powerful.
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John McCreedy
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Posted - 2004.07.16 18:06:00 -
[11]
Personally, I don't think sheild recharge needs looking at so much as the Shield Operation skill. A 5% Bonus to shield recharge rate is a useless bonus. Possibly a percentage increase to shield boosting would be better to offset or at least soften the Cap Relay penalty.
Make a difference
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John McCreedy
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Posted - 2004.07.16 18:06:00 -
[12]
Personally, I don't think sheild recharge needs looking at so much as the Shield Operation skill. A 5% Bonus to shield recharge rate is a useless bonus. Possibly a percentage increase to shield boosting would be better to offset or at least soften the Cap Relay penalty.
Make a difference
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2004.07.16 18:22:00 -
[13]
I want the above items too be looked at. Wouldn't it be fun to fit 8x and 4x shield chargers on a scorpion and actually be able to tank something?
Other than that, those modules have no use in the game. Neither do damage controls 
--
Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
Hamatitio
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Posted - 2004.07.16 18:22:00 -
[14]
I want the above items too be looked at. Wouldn't it be fun to fit 8x and 4x shield chargers on a scorpion and actually be able to tank something?
Other than that, those modules have no use in the game. Neither do damage controls
--
Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
Cain Calzon
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Posted - 2004.07.16 19:50:00 -
[15]
i say give shield tankers a low slot cap recharger, say change the cap flux coil or the shield power relay to give +20 cap recharge and -10% armor boosting. just as the cap power relay gives -10% shield boosting.
allthough a better idea is to skip the -10% shield boosting on the CPRs and make them a low slot cap recharger. that way both armor tanking and shield tankers got a equal chance. if ccp wants amarr ship to armor tank just give them a -10% shield boosting ship bonus(ship nerf) per power relay u have on the ship.
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Cain Calzon
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Posted - 2004.07.16 19:50:00 -
[16]
i say give shield tankers a low slot cap recharger, say change the cap flux coil or the shield power relay to give +20 cap recharge and -10% armor boosting. just as the cap power relay gives -10% shield boosting.
allthough a better idea is to skip the -10% shield boosting on the CPRs and make them a low slot cap recharger. that way both armor tanking and shield tankers got a equal chance. if ccp wants amarr ship to armor tank just give them a -10% shield boosting ship bonus(ship nerf) per power relay u have on the ship.
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John McCreedy
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Posted - 2004.07.16 20:29:00 -
[17]
 Originally by: Cain Calzon
i say give shield tankers a low slot cap recharger, say change the cap flux coil or the shield power relay to give +20 cap recharge and -10% armor boosting. just as the cap power relay gives -10% shield boosting.
allthough a better idea is to skip the -10% shield boosting on the CPRs and make them a low slot cap recharger. that way both armor tanking and shield tankers got a equal chance. if ccp wants amarr ship to armor tank just give them a -10% shield boosting ship bonus(ship nerf) per power relay u have on the ship.
Just be easier to remove the stupid penalty that hurts shield tankers and put a heavy stacking nerf on them so Appocs can't use them.
Make a difference
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John McCreedy
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Posted - 2004.07.16 20:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cain Calzon
i say give shield tankers a low slot cap recharger, say change the cap flux coil or the shield power relay to give +20 cap recharge and -10% armor boosting. just as the cap power relay gives -10% shield boosting.
allthough a better idea is to skip the -10% shield boosting on the CPRs and make them a low slot cap recharger. that way both armor tanking and shield tankers got a equal chance. if ccp wants amarr ship to armor tank just give them a -10% shield boosting ship bonus(ship nerf) per power relay u have on the ship.
Just be easier to remove the stupid penalty that hurts shield tankers and put a heavy stacking nerf on them so Appocs can't use them.
Make a difference
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2004.07.16 21:03:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Shadowsword on 16/07/2004 21:06:03
Originally by: Cain Calzon
i say give shield tankers a low slot cap recharger, say change the cap flux coil or the shield power relay to give +20 cap recharge and -10% armor boosting. just as the cap power relay gives -10% shield boosting.
If you want to be completely fair, you'd have to make such a module a med slot item, not a low slot one.
Besides, you already have one: It's called Cap Recharger II 
Armors tanks can't take a lot a Cap Power Relays because the armor tanking modules take between 3 and 5 low slots. Add damage mods, ECCM arrays, WCS, and most armor tanks won't have more than 2 CPR.
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2004.07.16 21:03:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Shadowsword on 16/07/2004 21:06:03
Originally by: Cain Calzon
i say give shield tankers a low slot cap recharger, say change the cap flux coil or the shield power relay to give +20 cap recharge and -10% armor boosting. just as the cap power relay gives -10% shield boosting.
If you want to be completely fair, you'd have to make such a module a med slot item, not a low slot one.
Besides, you already have one: It's called Cap Recharger II
Armors tanks can't take a lot a Cap Power Relays because the armor tanking modules take between 3 and 5 low slots. Add damage mods, ECCM arrays, WCS, and most armor tanks won't have more than 2 CPR.
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Ukiah
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Posted - 2004.07.17 01:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: John McCreedy
Personally, I don't think sheild recharge needs looking at so much as the Shield Operation skill. A 5% Bonus to shield recharge rate is a useless bonus. Possibly a percentage increase to shield boosting would be better to offset or at least soften the Cap Relay penalty.
*DING*
*DING*
*DING*
We have a WINNAR!
Shield tanking should be as viable as armor tanking. Put in a skill to lessen the impact of the cap relay nerf, or perhaps create a low slot module specifically for reducing activation cost of shield booster or somesuch. Or tweak the skill as JM mentioned.
I use amarr ships, so the shield boost nerf never hurt me. But it's IDIOTIC to see Ravens armor tanking.
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Ukiah
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Posted - 2004.07.17 01:23:00 -
[22]
Originally by: John McCreedy
Personally, I don't think sheild recharge needs looking at so much as the Shield Operation skill. A 5% Bonus to shield recharge rate is a useless bonus. Possibly a percentage increase to shield boosting would be better to offset or at least soften the Cap Relay penalty.
*DING*
*DING*
*DING*
We have a WINNAR!
Shield tanking should be as viable as armor tanking. Put in a skill to lessen the impact of the cap relay nerf, or perhaps create a low slot module specifically for reducing activation cost of shield booster or somesuch. Or tweak the skill as JM mentioned.
I use amarr ships, so the shield boost nerf never hurt me. But it's IDIOTIC to see Ravens armor tanking.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.07.17 01:28:00 -
[23]
just make cap relays stacking, still gives ravens the optiont to do decent shield tanking without charges (thy simply suck)
Wanna fly with me?
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.07.17 01:28:00 -
[24]
just make cap relays stacking, still gives ravens the optiont to do decent shield tanking without charges (thy simply suck)
Wanna fly with me?
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.07.17 02:44:00 -
[25]
If you read the dev blogs, it's pretty obvious that between bug fixing, releasing more tech 2 stuff, Shiva, and planning the missile and drone nerf, the devs have their hands full for the rest of the year.
If shield recharge is a worthless stat for all ships, then everything is balanced, right?  No need to balance it.....
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.07.17 02:44:00 -
[26]
If you read the dev blogs, it's pretty obvious that between bug fixing, releasing more tech 2 stuff, Shiva, and planning the missile and drone nerf, the devs have their hands full for the rest of the year.
If shield recharge is a worthless stat for all ships, then everything is balanced, right? No need to balance it.....
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2004.07.17 07:39:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Nafri
just make cap relays stacking, still gives ravens the optiont to do decent shield tanking without charges (thy simply suck)
Yes, and that way, Ravens will have good offense AND good defense without needing to sacrifice anything.
Armor tanking require more CPU/Grid than shield tanking, and very often one more slot (for the 1 large repairer+1 medium repairer configs). Bearing that in mind, I think it's normal for Armor tanking to be more efficient cap-wise.
And no, charges don't suck. Learn to use them.
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2004.07.17 07:39:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Nafri
just make cap relays stacking, still gives ravens the optiont to do decent shield tanking without charges (thy simply suck)
Yes, and that way, Ravens will have good offense AND good defense without needing to sacrifice anything.
Armor tanking require more CPU/Grid than shield tanking, and very often one more slot (for the 1 large repairer+1 medium repairer configs). Bearing that in mind, I think it's normal for Armor tanking to be more efficient cap-wise.
And no, charges don't suck. Learn to use them.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.07.17 11:08:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Armor tanking require more CPU/Grid than shield tanking
I do believe that armor tanking uses more grid and shield tanking uses more CPU... Ever see the CPU requirements of an XL Shield Booster?
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.07.17 11:08:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Armor tanking require more CPU/Grid than shield tanking
I do believe that armor tanking uses more grid and shield tanking uses more CPU... Ever see the CPU requirements of an XL Shield Booster?
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
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