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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
122
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
As it currently stands, it looks like CCP will make mining the major source for low end minerals.
With mining barge and exhumer tanks where they are high sec mining for low requires players to accepted the very real possibility of being ganked. Bot owners are fine with being ganked, its a cost of business on a throw away account. Players on the other hand hate being ganked. It leaves a permanent loss mail tied to the account. It also shows the player getting caught doing something stupid enough to give away and easy kill. While stupid might simply mean mining in a belt, players will tend to avoid such activities.
We've seen this with low sec. Players absolutely refuse to engage in conduct that requires them to self select to be victims. Instead we get a bunch of whining on the forums, then if CCP does not intervene abandonment of the feature/activity. Invariably, those looking for easy kills will blame the lack of such kills on carebearism. Unfortunately, such claims have until recently had great weight with CCP. What is normally not recognized is that refusal to participate is the antithesis of carebearism. One of the first (and hardest) steps of being a successful PvPer is not doing stupid things that are going to get you killed. Self selecting to be a victim is stupid.
CCP has decided to tie the eve economy, directly, to the willingness of players to self select for victimhood. The current state of mining follows the classic pattern of feature abandonment: 1. New Feature Becomes Available (CCP bans mining bots, starts removing non mining mineral faucets). 2. Players try out the newly profitable feature. 3. Players loose ships and realize that the mechanics of the feature require self selecting victimhood. 4. Players point out to CCP that the mechanics of the feature are stupid. 5. Players abandon the feature when CCP does nothing about it.
Right now we are in the state of people trying mining again for the first time in years. They are finding how poorly tanked barges are and complaining/exiting the feature. As a result of tying a core component of the economy to players self selecting to be victims we are seeing a major increase in inflation. This will continue until some equilibrium is reached with the non-mining mineral inputs still in the system and/or it becomes profitable to mine low ends in protected null sec space.
Most likely though is sudden, explosive, subscription loss when the inflation situation makes continuing to play this game untenable. |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
188
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Eve is dying because I'm not getting my way thread #968572 |
Sentient Blade
Walk It Off Imperial Ascension
309
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Give exhumers enough powergrid to fit some buffer mods and things would be better. |
FeralShadow
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
82
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Do not care. Getting people away from all the huge super expensive ships that everybody has would only help the universe.
I've not flown a T1 ship in years. If i have to start flying T1 because of isk, so be it. It will be exciting. "I do believe in karma. -áThat means that whenever I do something sh**y to others, they somehow deserved it." |
Mark Androcius
9
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
If prices of minerals out of low or nullsec go up ( which is what inflation does ), then nullsec corporations and alliances will start focusing on mining the belts in their own systems more and more, because this becomes more profitable. This in turn will drag the prices down again, hey presto, you got your balance. Yes i am dutch, no i don't do drugs. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1511
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
I guess Hulks should have more HP than a slaved deadspace fit Avatar. That'll fix those dirty griefers wagons.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
589
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote: Most likely though is sudden, explosive, subscription loss when the inflation situation makes continuing to play this game untenable.
I doubt that will be the case. At least not in the dramatic scene of players running for the hello kitty hills. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
67
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Funny how rampant suicide ganking is, when I managed to hulk mine for 4-5 months on a hisec alt without someone so much as boxing me up..
Guess I must just be pro, nothing at all to do with picking a quiet, out of the way system |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
458
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Your whole thought structure is based on the stubborn fallacy that mining is a solo activity that can only be performed in high security space.
Mining does not make anyone a victim. Being unorganised, unwilling to co-operate with others and doing it in the wrong place makes one a victim. It is therefore no different from any other activity in EVE.
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Mark Androcius
9
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
Probably less greed would work too. In stead of fitting a cargo extender for example, fit 1 or 2 warp core stabs, so you can actually warp away and not be warp scrambled, it's just a thought. Yes i am dutch, no i don't do drugs. |
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Stellar Vix
State War Academy Caldari State
87
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
So get paid twice as much for you loots and paying twice as much for the things you buy?
AmIrite?
-Vix SWA Instructor, Commander Select Currently being blamed as SWA's CEO SWA PVP Program |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
754
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mark Androcius wrote:If prices of minerals out of low or nullsec go up ( which is what inflation does ), then nullsec corporations and alliances will start focusing on mining the belts in their own systems more and more, because this becomes more profitable. This in turn will drag the prices down again, hey presto, you got your balance.
Mining still sucks, so I really don't see this happening unless missions, incursions, moongoo, and etc have their payouts nerfed a lot.
More new and low-SP players will mine low ends in high sec. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
306
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Industrialists with sand in their vaginas across New Eden, story at eleven.
Now back to your regularly scheduled bullshit. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Mark Androcius
10
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Industrialists with sand in their vaginas across New Eden, story at eleven.
Now back to your regularly scheduled bullshit.
Wahahahahahah Yes i am dutch, no i don't do drugs. |
Marduk Nibiru
Risk Breakers C0NVICTED
168
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote: 3. Players loose ships and realize that the mechanics of the feature require self selecting victimhood.
I have to wonder if you've ever been out of hisec. Let me tell you how it works and why what you're claiming here is false:
Mining out in 0.0 has to be at least as stupid as mining in lowsec, right? If you're in lowsec and get blown up, at least it takes a chunk out of the offending party's sec status and gives you free right to kill them. In 0.0 they don't even get that. It is completely lawless out there. So why would anyone mine in 0.0, right?
Well, people do. A lot of people do. You can make a crap load more money mining in 0.0 than in hisec. What keeps people out of lowsec right now is not the danger, it's the fact that it's a complete waste of time. There's nothing in lowsec that outperforms mining for Veldspar in terms of ISK per m3....certainly not enough to risk anything.
What happens in 0.0 is that people mine in groups and within alliances full of people who love to blow **** up. Having a gang come into system to explode miners is actually cool because then they get to fly out and get a fight without having the effort of roaming.
We set up special channels that people report neutral and red activities in. See a red or neut in your system? Drag them into the chat and then the system you're in...say what they're flying...or NV if you are hiding and haven't seen them.
People who are mining (or ratting for that matter) watch these channels and carefully observe local for anyone that's not blue. As soon as such a person comes into the system, or hopefully sooner based on intel, all carebearing activities cease and you dock up, safe up, pos up, and/or cloak up. Then you wait for the alliance to respond or maybe you get into something more PvP oriented and help blow up these invaders yourself.
So, that's how you do it. You don't go out and solo-mine in lowsec, nullsec, and you really shouldn't be in hisec either. EvE is simply not a game for the solo player. I don't think CCP should really cater to them either. Get a good group together and you can do dangerous things with more safety. Be out there all alone and yeah, you're gonna die.
So there it is. That's why you're full of ****. Maybe CCP will lose a couple subs, but I think they are subs from people who simply don't like the game. This is fine, we shouldn't really be too worried about it. There are, in fact, plenty of people who DO like the game. Corp up! |
Nimbat
Kerrigan Corporation
4
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Posted - 2012.04.11 18:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
I long for the day when faction ships are an awesome and rare sight and when the majority of EVE flies T1 ships. It would be amazing. |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
193
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Posted - 2012.04.11 18:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nimbat wrote:I long for the day when faction ships are an awesome and rare sight and when the majority of EVE flies T1 ships. It would be amazing.
What she said ^
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Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
123
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Posted - 2012.04.11 18:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Jas Dor wrote: Most likely though is sudden, explosive, subscription loss when the inflation situation makes continuing to play this game untenable.
I doubt that will be the case. At least not in the dramatic scene of players running for the hello kitty hills.
I note the use of the past tense. Yes, you managed to avoid a gank, but how many buffs to gank ships ago was that? |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
123
|
Posted - 2012.04.11 18:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Roime wrote:Your whole thought structure is based on the stubborn fallacy that mining is a solo activity that can only be performed in high security space.
Mining does not make anyone a victim. Being unorganised, unwilling to co-operate with others and doing it in the wrong place makes one a victim. It is therefore no different from any other activity in EVE.
Are you claiming that group mining in low/null is an efficient way to get minerals into the game? A once a week corp mining op for a couple hours isn't going to meet the mineral demand in this game.
|
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
309
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Posted - 2012.04.11 18:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Roime wrote:Your whole thought structure is based on the stubborn fallacy that mining is a solo activity that can only be performed in high security space.
Mining does not make anyone a victim. Being unorganised, unwilling to co-operate with others and doing it in the wrong place makes one a victim. It is therefore no different from any other activity in EVE.
Are you claiming that group mining in low/null is an efficient way to get minerals into the game? A once a week corp mining op for a couple hours isn't going to meet the mineral demand in this game.
Thousands of corps. Please, don't forget to livestream your mining ops.
Preferably with accompanying webcam for maximum tear extraction. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
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Selinate
852
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Posted - 2012.04.11 18:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
It's not that hard to live and mine in lowsec.... |
Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
49
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Posted - 2012.04.11 18:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
DUDE !!! what are you doing !! you giving away all the sooooper seecwet 0.0 stuff !!!
Marduk Nibiru wrote:Jas Dor wrote:
3. Players loose ships and realize that the mechanics of the feature require self selecting victimhood.
I have to wonder if you've ever been out of hisec. Let me tell you how it works and why what you're claiming here is false: Mining out in 0.0 has to be at least as stupid as mining in lowsec, right? If you're in lowsec and get blown up, at least it takes a chunk out of the offending party's sec status and gives you free right to kill them. In 0.0 they don't even get that. It is completely lawless out there. So why would anyone mine in 0.0, right? Well, people do. A lot of people do. You can make a crap load more money mining in 0.0 than in hisec. What keeps people out of lowsec right now is not the danger, it's the fact that it's a complete waste of time. There's nothing in lowsec that outperforms mining for Veldspar in terms of ISK per m3....certainly not enough to risk anything. What happens in 0.0 is that people mine in groups and within alliances full of people who love to blow **** up. Having a gang come into system to explode miners is actually cool because then they get to fly out and get a fight without having the effort of roaming. We set up special channels that people report neutral and red activities in. See a red or neut in your system? Drag them into the chat and then the system you're in...say what they're flying...or NV if you are hiding and haven't seen them. People who are mining (or ratting for that matter) watch these channels and carefully observe local for anyone that's not blue. As soon as such a person comes into the system, or hopefully sooner based on intel, all carebearing activities cease and you dock up, safe up, pos up, and/or cloak up. Then you wait for the alliance to respond or maybe you get into something more PvP oriented and help blow up these invaders yourself. So, that's how you do it. You don't go out and solo-mine in lowsec, nullsec, and you really shouldn't be in hisec either. EvE is simply not a game for the solo player. I don't think CCP should really cater to them either. Get a good group together and you can do dangerous things with more safety. Be out there all alone and yeah, you're gonna die. So there it is. That's why you're full of ****. Maybe CCP will lose a couple subs, but I think they are subs from people who simply don't like the game. This is fine, we shouldn't really be too worried about it. There are, in fact, plenty of people who DO like the game. Corp up! |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
124
|
Posted - 2012.04.11 18:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nimbat wrote:I long for the day when faction ships are an awesome and rare sight and when the majority of EVE flies T1 ships. It would be amazing.
Bak in the day PvPers always flew the best ship that they could. Only lack of SP drove the use of inferior ships. Faction ships started appearing more in PvP when CCP added them to the market. Prior to that they lacked the visibility for widespread use.
If you make PvP ships navfordable PvPers will quit. They will not downgrade the ship types they fly.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1512
|
Posted - 2012.04.11 18:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Nimbat wrote:I long for the day when faction ships are an awesome and rare sight and when the majority of EVE flies T1 ships. It would be amazing. Bak in the day PvPers always flew the best ship that they could. Only lack of SP drove the use of inferior ships. Faction ships started appearing more in PvP when CCP added them to the market. Prior to that they lacked the visibility for widespread use. If you make PvP ships navfordable PvPers will quit. They will not downgrade the ship types they fly.
You're wrong.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
141
|
Posted - 2012.04.11 18:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Nimbat wrote:I long for the day when faction ships are an awesome and rare sight and when the majority of EVE flies T1 ships. It would be amazing. Bak in the day PvPers always flew the best ship that they could. Only lack of SP drove the use of inferior ships. Faction ships started appearing more in PvP when CCP added them to the market. Prior to that they lacked the visibility for widespread use. If you make PvP ships navfordable PvPers will quit. They will not downgrade the ship types they fly.
I won't quit. Because all of a sudden the favorite ship will just be a tier lower hull. More BC and C less BS. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Selinate
852
|
Posted - 2012.04.11 18:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nimbat wrote:I long for the day when faction ships are an awesome and rare sight and when the majority of EVE flies T1 ships. It would be amazing.
IMO, faction ships should be made a lot more rare for BPC's to drop, or increased building requirements.. They're too prevalent as it is in PvP, it's kind of annoying... |
Nimbat
Kerrigan Corporation
7
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Posted - 2012.04.11 18:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Jas Dor wrote:Nimbat wrote:I long for the day when faction ships are an awesome and rare sight and when the majority of EVE flies T1 ships. It would be amazing. Bak in the day PvPers always flew the best ship that they could. Only lack of SP drove the use of inferior ships. Faction ships started appearing more in PvP when CCP added them to the market. Prior to that they lacked the visibility for widespread use. If you make PvP ships navfordable PvPers will quit. They will not downgrade the ship types they fly. You're wrong. -Liang
Who is? |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
194
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Posted - 2012.04.11 18:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Bak in the day PvPers always flew the best ship that they could. Only lack of SP drove the use of inferior ships. Faction ships started appearing more in PvP when CCP added them to the market. Prior to that they lacked the visibility for widespread use.
If you make PvP ships navfordable PvPers will quit. They will not downgrade the ship types they fly.
LOL
Another group of people that are supposedly going to quit the game.
Have you considered that maybe everyone else isn't a whiny entitled baby like you?
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Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
57
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Posted - 2012.04.11 18:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
I actually mine right now due to time conflicts and level of concentration... I have never been ganked (I dont even fly hulks...) I think it's blown out of proportion honestly.
2. If I am ganked.... I dont give a **** about a loss mail. It's not a matter of pride. I also fail to see how getting ganked in a covetor is a stupid "mistake.." How could it be. (Yeah yeah why the **** are you mining youre doing it wrong blah blah)
I dont mine in lowsec because i'd then have to pay 100% attention...which I already stated I can't do or else i'd be doing something else...
I dont think people want to mine in low sec due to being forced to pay attention to how boring mining really is. That's the problem aside from the part that mining to be profitable or useful needs to be done in a group. Address the fundemental nature of mining and make it more entertaining/non stationary and you'll see an upswing.
As of now you see: People like me who can't devote 100% of their attention yet still want to interact with the game (work, school work...hungover) People who really dont have an issue with the mechanics of it... I dunno how they do it. mandatory mining corp ops Bots. |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
124
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Posted - 2012.04.11 18:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
Just a quick note. If I did the math right a JF cn haul around 360m units of trit in the form of compressed veld. Those that understand logistics will grasp why this means that significant amounts of trit will not be coming from 0.0. |
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