Most likely though is sudden, explosive, subscription loss when the inflation situation makes continuing to play this game untenable.

If prices of minerals out of low or nullsec go up ( which is what inflation does ), then nullsec corporations and alliances will start focusing on mining the belts in their own systems more and more, because this becomes more profitable.
This in turn will drag the prices down again, hey presto, you got your balance.

Industrialists with sand in their vaginas across New Eden, story at eleven.

Now back to your regularly scheduled bullshit.

3. Players loose ships and realize that the mechanics of the feature require self selecting victimhood.

I long for the day when faction ships are an awesome and rare sight and when the majority of EVE flies T1 ships.
It would be amazing.

I doubt that will be the case. At least not in the dramatic scene of players running for the hello kitty hills.

Your whole thought structure is based on the stubborn fallacy that mining is a solo activity that can only be performed in high security space.

Mining does not make anyone a victim. Being unorganised, unwilling to co-operate with others and doing it in the wrong place makes one a victim. It is therefore no different from any other activity in EVE.

Are you claiming that group mining in low/null is an efficient way to get minerals into the game? A once a week corp mining op for a couple hours isn't going to meet the mineral demand in this game.

I have to wonder if you've ever been out of hisec. Let me tell you how it works and why what you're claiming here is false:

Mining out in 0.0 has to be at least as stupid as mining in lowsec, right? If you're in lowsec and get blown up, at least it takes a chunk out of the offending party's sec status and gives you free right to kill them. In 0.0 they don't even get that. It is completely lawless out there. So why would anyone mine in 0.0, right?

Well, people do. A lot of people do. You can make a crap load more money mining in 0.0 than in hisec. What keeps people out of lowsec right now is not the danger, it's the fact that it's a complete waste of time. There's nothing in lowsec that outperforms mining for Veldspar in terms of ISK per m3....certainly not enough to risk anything.

What happens in 0.0 is that people mine in groups and within alliances full of people who love to blow **** up. Having a gang come into system to explode miners is actually cool because then they get to fly out and get a fight without having the effort of roaming.

We set up special channels that people report neutral and red activities in. See a red or neut in your system? Drag them into the chat and then the system you're in...say what they're flying...or NV if you are hiding and haven't seen them.

People who are mining (or ratting for that matter) watch these channels and carefully observe local for anyone that's not blue. As soon as such a person comes into the system, or hopefully sooner based on intel, all carebearing activities cease and you dock up, safe up, pos up, and/or cloak up. Then you wait for the alliance to respond or maybe you get into something more PvP oriented and help blow up these invaders yourself.

So, that's how you do it. You don't go out and solo-mine in lowsec, nullsec, and you really shouldn't be in hisec either. EvE is simply not a game for the solo player. I don't think CCP should really cater to them either. Get a good group together and you can do dangerous things with more safety. Be out there all alone and yeah, you're gonna die.

So there it is. That's why you're full of ****. Maybe CCP will lose a couple subs, but I think they are subs from people who simply don't like the game. This is fine, we shouldn't really be too worried about it. There are, in fact, plenty of people who DO like the game. Corp up!

I long for the day when faction ships are an awesome and rare sight and when the majority of EVE flies T1 ships.
It would be amazing.

Bak in the day PvPers always flew the best ship that they could. Only lack of SP drove the use of inferior ships. Faction ships started appearing more in PvP when CCP added them to the market. Prior to that they lacked the visibility for widespread use.

If you make PvP ships navfordable PvPers will quit. They will not downgrade the ship types they fly.

Bak in the day PvPers always flew the best ship that they could. Only lack of SP drove the use of inferior ships. Faction ships started appearing more in PvP when CCP added them to the market. Prior to that they lacked the visibility for widespread use.

If you make PvP ships navfordable PvPers will quit. They will not downgrade the ship types they fly.

I long for the day when faction ships are an awesome and rare sight and when the majority of EVE flies T1 ships.
It would be amazing.

You're wrong.

-Liang

Bak in the day PvPers always flew the best ship that they could. Only lack of SP drove the use of inferior ships. Faction ships started appearing more in PvP when CCP added them to the market. Prior to that they lacked the visibility for widespread use.

If you make PvP ships navfordable PvPers will quit. They will not downgrade the ship types they fly.

Who is?

I actually mine right now due to time conflicts and level of concentration... I have never been ganked (I dont even fly hulks...) I think it's blown out of proportion honestly.

2. If I am ganked.... I dont give a **** about a loss mail. It's not a matter of pride. I also fail to see how getting ganked in a covetor is a stupid "mistake.." How could it be. (Yeah yeah why the **** are you mining youre doing it wrong blah blah)

I dont mine in lowsec because i'd then have to pay 100% attention...which I already stated I can't do or else i'd be doing something else...

I dont think people want to mine in low sec due to being forced to pay attention to how boring mining really is. That's the problem aside from the part that mining to be profitable or useful needs to be done in a group. Address the fundemental nature of mining and make it more entertaining/non stationary and you'll see an upswing.

As of now you see: People like me who can't devote 100% of their attention yet still want to interact with the game (work, school work...hungover)
People who really dont have an issue with the mechanics of it... I dunno how they do it.
mandatory mining corp ops
Bots.

PVPers are not going to quit because higher tier ships are more expensive. They'll downgrade the ship they fly before quitting.

-Liang

While simultaneously ramping up the tear factor for everybody involved.

As previously stated, CCP has successfully buffed the tears of the unwashed masses.

**** is about to get really good around here!!!

Uh, most of the PVPers I know may grumble for a while, but it won't last that long. We're a pretty adaptable lot and as a whole are remarkably good at ISK making and such. Hell I'm grumbling over the market prices of stuff, but a volatile market is going to incredibly good for my ISK reserves.

Don't confuse grumbling over short term discomfort with the perpetual whine we hear from die hard carebears.

-Liang

Eve is dying because I'm not getting my way thread #968572

I've never really thought of myself as a victim when i lose ships. It's more of a job hazard. And after you lose enough ships you stop caring, which is why griefers prefer to target new players for precious tears.

Played-out "L2P" comment that contributes nothing to a thread #5,665,324

I was agreeing with you and extrapolating your point. Learn reading comprehension, I guess?

See also: THAT WAS NOT AN ARGUMENT.

Ummm, I don't know how I could have deduced that but w/e. The point is well and truly belabored now.

-Liang

Maybe the problem is you read every post and just assume that people are arguing with you instead of maybe trying to add to what you've already said.

Just a thought, though.

Let's take a look at what was said:
"PVPers are not going to quit because higher tier ships are more expensive. They'll downgrade the ship they fly before quitting."

"... While simultaneously ramping up the tear factor for everybody involved."

It seems that relatively obvious that by saying "everybody involved", PVPers are included in that ramping up of the tear factor. Really, it could also be argued that its the responsibility of a poster to ensure their posts are understandable by the readers - which includes people who have a different native language. It could be argued that a certain poster has poor communication skills if they didn't say what they meant.... ?

Just a thought, though.

-Liang

My point was valid regardless - that you got defensive is the true tell here.

It's not being defensive when someone screws up what they're trying to say and you have to correct them.

-Liang

I doubt that will be the case. At least not in the dramatic scene of players running for the hello kitty hills.

Let's take a look at what was said:
"PVPers are not going to quit because higher tier ships are more expensive. They'll downgrade the ship they fly before quitting."

-Liang

So try to be less of an idiot.

You are wrong Liang.
Most pirate corps have strong industrial alt corps. How do you think who is making CAP ships, drugs, T2 ships and other stuff?
Large part of it is made in lowsec by us.

I went outlaw one and half a year ago with around 800m in wallet. Now its more than 15 Bils in cash and more than double in hardware. All was earned in lowsec by that time.
So dont worry bout us :)

the reason you are wrong OP is that you assume that everyone cares as much about losing ships as you do. i myself regularly scan down low class WHs and clean them out in a cheap BC. if i get ganked, i eject and warp to the exit hole without losing a second thought. and i can also confirm that i am not the only one doing this, i even met a guy who was solo MINING in a C2 once.

TL;DR: people don't care about losing ships, therefore you're wrong.

Thousands of corps. Please, don't forget to livestream your mining ops.

Preferably with accompanying webcam for maximum tear extraction.

So the only question is, how high will the mineral prices go now that minerals from drones are out of this game, and refining mission loot is now marginal at best. Correct me if I am wrong.

PVPers are not going to quit because higher tier ships are more expensive. They'll downgrade the ship they fly before quitting.

-Liang

Not willing to depose the "We're all going to die" approach to the problem, but I think it's quite natural that there's a connection between profitability and security of mining. The higher the mineral cost (especially, Trit), the more it costs to build a T1 gank ship and modules for it. Now, some equipment comes from ratting, missioning, etc, but ships do have to be built. And, as mentioned earlier, Concordokken=no insurance. On the other hand, mineral prices going up means more profitability for miners.

So, at some point in time the price of expendable alpha ships will be comparable to the price of expected loot from an average mining setup. And loot is pretty random (unless someone is crazy enough to mine T2-fitted and alone at the same time) - salvaged stuff worth 2 mil from several abandoned BC wrecks at a gate the other day, while getting 50 mil worth salvage from one hisec belt rat frig.

So the only question is, how high will the mineral prices go now that minerals from drones are out of this game, and refining mission loot is now marginal at best. Correct me if I am wrong.

B) DSCAN doesn't work in highsec! With 40 other ships floating around in space dscan is pointless. you PVPrs just don't fricken get it.

Accusing pvpers of not "getting" dscan while demonstrating that it is you who doesn't "get" dscan.

Okay, then explain to me how dscan works effectively in highsec instead of just giving a cryptic, uninformative post that calls me a fool without any details. Don't get me wrong, if you can provide me with a good set of reasons and how to use it in high sec, I will certainly say that you were right.

Vexx

In other news, yay buffed mineral prices. Now if we can make Titans and SCs rare again (well, again for the Titans), I'd be in love.

Tips;

1.) Don't mine in a system that is heavily populated.
2.) If there are too many results, lower the range of your Dscan, and look for destroyers, cruisers, battlecruisers, and T1 battleships with silly names.
3.) Stay aligned at low-speed at all time and always have your destination selected on overview except when selecting targets for mining lasers. This will allow you to warp out within 2-5 seconds depending on your skills. Don't wait to be targeted to warp out, warp out if you see a ship warp in that isn't a mining ship (Memorize the mining cruisers/frigates).
4.) Buff and resistance fit your barge. You have spare medium slots, and when mining solo, a survey scanner isn't necessary

1) See the first point that i made previously, this is simply a reiteration of what i said
2) Funny names? WTF does that have to do with anything? How does lowering the range help? Seeing battleships and rifters, and any other ship is incredibly common in highsec. Dscan is a GREAT tool for lowsec but I still can't see this level of intel being worth a damn in high sec
3) This one I can kinda see as valid. Though it does make it a logistical nightmare when solo mining and only having a 15km range.
4) As I stated previously even with a fully buffer/resist fitted hulk you will most likely still be ganked. why? This makes you more of a "juicy" target. I agree that this is the only way to "safely" mine and have at least some semblance of defense but again, its a mining barge, not a battleship.

Vexx

btw
yay for a relaxing profession in EVE.
Is it supposed to be this hard to mine in high sec???? c'mon guys, if i rat in a belt in null i just need to watch local, and that is risky.

Time to market and gank risk of the hauler are also inflationary pressures. If it takes an hour to haul to market prices will rise to reflect this. If gank risk caps the maximum amount that can be hauled at less than the capacity of the hauler, prices will also rise to reflect this. Sure you might be able to mine in Khanid, but can you efficiently get the minerals to market?

To date, the market pressure applied by piracy (ganks) in hi-sec has been negligible. I would estimate it at ~5%, which is a perfectly acceptable predicted "loss" and/or "waste" figure when trading at high volume

Hmmm...I ran the numbers in my outtamyass machine, came up with 6.5896%. I'm curious where the discrepancy arose between our respective pulledfromass numbers?

D) Your mining boat is not made to fight in a war, If you think it should.. you are an idiot. Mining scows are for MINING not battle. CCP doesn't need to make a "tank miner" because the very idea of this is ridiculous

Actually, I don't know that it's all that ridiculous. I'd think that in a universe where war is the norm, with as much violence as EvE has and his supposed to have had all along, at least one company somewhere would develop a mining vessel that could take at least one tap from a ball peen hammer. Something that takes some effort to gank and has a moderate chance of escaping. Maybe it doesn't pull in the ore like a Hulk, but it wouldn't be like mining in a BS either and could at least use strip miners...

As it currently stands, (DELETED for BREVITY) makes continuing to play this game untenable.

Bak in the day PvPers always flew the best ship that they could. Only lack of SP drove the use of inferior ships. Faction ships started appearing more in PvP when CCP added them to the market. Prior to that they lacked the visibility for widespread use.

If you make PvP ships navfordable PvPers will quit. They will not downgrade the ship types they fly.

There's really no middle ground on this issue.

Miner mine, they don't fight. TBH, they shouldn't even be able to defend against much.

From a business perspective - given the relatively small chance of being popped in hi-sec - it would not make financial sense to sacrifice the ability to mind (not even a little bit) just to make a ships lightly more survivable.

To be fair, RP-wise, you'd expect a mining ship to have HP comparable to a combat vessel of similar size and complexity, if not even higher.
Sure, you would not expect its combat capabilities to be even in the same order of magnitude, but come on, it can really use a bit more HP. Like, say, 2-4 times more than right now. Give or take.