Good luck with that. Eve us full of the biggest pansies in any MMO ever. WoW has more 'hardcore' pvpers than this game does and that's a PvE game. It's funny though, how people will say one thing and then say the opposite just to make things easier for themselves.

*signs the petition.

Meh, I'm talking about some enterprising young engineering corp retro-fitting a battleship hull into a mining ship. Something a bit more RP/"realistic" than simply fitting tank mods on a CCP stock ship.

It would be pretty cool if we could design our own ships from scratch. Downsides would be designing the limits and trade-offs into such a system, min-maxing, server load, etc..

20 titans blapping entire fleets of battleships is very similar to hulks getting suicide ganked because

Yes. Cost is not a balancing factor because it cannot counteract imbalance GÇö be it in the positive or negative direction.

Mining barges aren't meant to be in a position where they need to be defended though.

The "issue" is much like a suicide bomber attacking an airplane. Commercial planes aren't meant to be flown over a battlefield but they are still susceptible to random, suicidal attacks. The solution was not giving airplanes depleted uranium hulls, but increasing situational awareness and local security. That is the counter to suicide ganking in EVE. Mining has evolved into a very active profession that now requires the coordination and work of many people, like any profession should in an MMO. Miners have a legitimate threat now and they are getting upset because they can no longer turn on their laser and come back to their computer 20 minutes later. Miners need to learn how to adapt, and it's not very hard.

There is a lot of talk about how a Hulk, worth anywhere from 250 to 400 mil shouldn't be able to be destroyed by ships only a few mil.

This is a really poor way to determine the balance or unbalance of a game. Logically, a 5mil cruiser should be better than a 2mil cruiser. However there is an extremely critical flaw with this argument.

At what point does CCP and / or the community decide it's enough?

It has gotten to the point where undocking from jita / amarr / etc is more dangerous than venturing into lowsec.

The current deterrents to ganking are NOT enough to make it the last resort it should be. One suicide gank should have enough of a security status hit to prevent that character from entering highsec until they have grinded up some security status. Until CCP implements a SIGNIFICANT penalty to suicide ganks (no, not just ship loss), highsec is basically pointless.

This has already happened. Why does it need to happen again so soon?

At what point does CCP and / or the community decide it's enough?

It has gotten to the point where undocking from jita / amarr / etc is more dangerous than venturing into lowsec.

Instead people just want a 'higher authority" (CCP) to change things for them like a bunch of crybabies - just like RL.

EvE is getting too real.

Your theatrical example shows just how little you know about mining and Barges.

3 minute cycles, absolutely nothing to do but sit there 10km from a rock for 3 minutes. You need to do that at least 3 times to fill the Hulk. It takes under 2 seconds for a fail fit kamikaze to lock you and pull the trigger. What you suggest is, if anyone is in local you should dock up? It isn't just about, Not getting blown up. It's about the ability to use the ship for what it was made for and not get blown up. If you can't mine the ship is useless.

Why is it exactly you fear a PG and hitpoint buff for barges so much? Do you worry people will mine and PvP might become cheaper?

It even happened at least twice in the last month.

First with removal of insurance.
Next with inability to warp under GCC, which prevents you from "hiding" your wreck in a safespot and coming back after Concord to recover some of the modules.

Bears won't be happy no matter what, of course, but ... tough luck.

There is a lot of talk about how a Hulk, worth anywhere from 250 to 400 mil shouldn't be able to be destroyed by ships only a few mil.

This is a really poor way to determine the balance or unbalance of a game. Logically, a 5mil cruiser should be better than a 2mil cruiser. However there is an extremely critical flaw with this argument.

It only applies when the ships perform the same function.

Take the function of a Hulk, it's a really big mining platform. It can extract a lot of ore very quickly and hold a lot of it in order to cut down on trips to and from the station. It should stay far away from the battlefield and in the safty of hi-sec or well gaurded low/null sec

Now take the function of a Thorax, it's a ship meant to get up close and deal a lot of DPS and can do a good job at blowing up ships larger than itself. It a ship that should be on the front line, camping gates and attacking others effectively in solo and gang warfare.

One ship is meant for combat, the other isn't. Ask yourself this

Why should a ship that isn't meant for combat be well protected against a ship that is meant for combat?

That is the real question here. It has little to do with price.

A long time ago Hulks, mining ships not meant for combat were able to take down frigates, destroyers, and even a few cruisers (ships meant for combat). There is a reason why CCP nerfed the feasibility of the "Battle Hulk", the ship started doing things that it wasn't meant to do.

It's not about price, it's about function. Hulks aren't meant to fight, other ships are. Ships that aren't meant to fight shouldn't stand a chance against ships that are.

This also works among other topics regarding ship balance. Many people justify the Tengu's ability to blow up many things is because they are often worth several billion dollars. While that is an important factor, the Tengu and other T3s are meant to be jacks of all trades yet masters at none, that is their function.

Discuss

Why shouldn't it be? If I was a business man who moved oil over seas and Somalian pirates attacked one of my ships, I'd have the entire crew armed with guns and RPGs. Any new ships I'd purchase would be harder to board and come with guns and torpedoes.

Your theatrical example shows just how little you know about mining and Barges.

3 minute cycles, absolutely nothing to do but sit there 10km from a rock for 3 minutes. You need to do that at least 3 times to fill the Hulk. It takes under 2 seconds for a fail fit kamikaze to lock you and pull the trigger. What you suggest is, if anyone is in local you should dock up? It isn't just about, Not getting blown up. It's about the ability to use the ship for what it was made for and not get blown up. If you can't mine the ship is useless.

Why is it exactly you fear a PG and hitpoint buff for barges so much? Do you worry people will mine and PvP might become cheaper?

It has gotten to the point where undocking from jita / amarr / etc is more dangerous than venturing into lowsec.

The current deterrents to ganking are NOT enough to make it the last resort it should be. One suicide gank should have enough of a security status hit to prevent that character from entering highsec until they have grinded up some security status. Until CCP implements a SIGNIFICANT penalty to suicide ganks (no, not just ship loss), highsec is basically pointless.

If the hulk cost you 5 mil and the Thorax set you back 300 mil, you would be singing a different tune.

Why should a ship that isn't meant for combat be well protected against a ship that is meant for combat?

That is the real question here. It has little to do with price.

Why would ORE produce a ship to mine in hostile space that can't even defend itself against 1 god damn destroyer.

Why would ORE produce a ship to mine in hostile space that can't even defend itself against 1 god damn destroyer.

Terrible post there.

Not once did i mention a location. I just said Somalian pirates attacked a ship. All that should have implied is that the pirates were from Somalia. Second, armored ships would come into play if they were being blown up as often as miners are. Someone somewhere would hire a few engineers to figure out a sweet middle area of cargo space and armor.

Fact of the matter is, price should be a determining factor for performance. No I don't expect a hulk to be in pvp roam gangs. But I'd expect it to not pop so easily to a destroyer.

This is a game where **** hits the fan all the time and anyone in their right mind wouldn't just have some pilot thrown into a defenseless hull and expect him to survive in a universe where everyone carries a gun. There would be some defenses in place to counter some of the things out there.

Situational awareness doesn't help when you're pointed before you can click the warp button btw. Unless you're in nullsec and a neutral enters the system

Why would ORE produce a ship to mine in hostile space that can't even defend itself against 1 god damn destroyer.

The Hulk is the largest craft in the second generation of mining vessels created by the ORE Syndicate. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining modules. They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space. The Hulk is, bar none, the most efficient mining vessel available.

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Dangers of deep space doesn't necessarily mean attacks by another ship. Since that paragraph is just for lore, we would expect various space threats that aren't in the game such as solar winds, radiation, spaceship/asteroid fragments and so on.