There is a lot of talk about how a Hulk, worth anywhere from 250 to 400 mil shouldn't be able to be destroyed by ships only a few mil.

This is a really poor way to determine the balance or unbalance of a game. Logically, a 5mil cruiser should be better than a 2mil cruiser. However there is an extremely critical flaw with this argument.

It only applies when the ships perform the same function.

Take the function of a Hulk, it's a really big mining platform. It can extract a lot of ore very quickly and hold a lot of it in order to cut down on trips to and from the station. It should stay far away from the battlefield and in the safty of hi-sec or well gaurded low/null sec

Now take the function of a Thorax, it's a ship meant to get up close and deal a lot of DPS and can do a good job at blowing up ships larger than itself. It a ship that should be on the front line, camping gates and attacking others effectively in solo and gang warfare.

One ship is meant for combat, the other isn't. Ask yourself this

Why should a ship that isn't meant for combat be well protected against a ship that is meant for combat?

That is the real question here. It has little to do with price.

A long time ago Hulks, mining ships not meant for combat were able to take down frigates, destroyers, and even a few cruisers (ships meant for combat). There is a reason why CCP nerfed the feasibility of the "Battle Hulk", the ship started doing things that it wasn't meant to do.

It's not about price, it's about function. Hulks aren't meant to fight, other ships are. Ships that aren't meant to fight shouldn't stand a chance against ships that are.

This also works among other topics regarding ship balance. Many people justify the Tengu's ability to blow up many things is because they are often worth several billion dollars. While that is an important factor, the Tengu and other T3s are meant to be jacks of all trades yet masters at none, that is their function.

Discuss

EDIT: I had another reply typed up, then I realized that you're just suffering from a gigantic miscommunication.

No one is arguing that hulks should be able to 1v1 combat ships and win. People are arguing that they should be able to protect themselves from ganks they have no chance to prevent. There's a difference. A blockade runner is not going to 1v1 any combat ship and win, but it sure as **** is great at staying alive.

The cost of the hulk is relevant because it directly determines how much ISK and time people are willing to invest in suicide ganking it. As the cost of the ship goes up, its value to gankers goes up - no one suicide ganks newbies in t1-fit rifters.

Ships that aren't meant to fight shouldn't stand a chance against ships that are.

Yes, but... why can't Hulks be adapted to current circumstances? If ganking is a problem, then ship designers would be fairly quick to offer a tankier Hulk, or a less capable, but cheaper Hulk.

Yes, but... why can't Hulks be adapted to current circumstances? If ganking is a problem, then ship designers would be fairly quick to offer a tankier Hulk, or a less capable, but cheaper Hulk. As it stands, we're all kind of reliant on CCP to design the ships instead of letting the market (and the limits of Eve physics and engineering if they were modeled) decide how the sand in the sandbox should be arranged.

Methinks miners need a T3-ish style ship.

No ship in EVE should be defenseless. You are a legitimate target the second you undock. Barges are defensless. Even a T1 Industrial has enough low slots, Med slots and PG to counter a Solo Kamikaze in EVE. A Hulk, Mackinaw and thier t1 counterparts do not. It isn't so much that they cost 300 mill, it's that they die far too easy.

Hulk gets over a covetor

Shield resists:
37.5% EM over 0%
65% Exp over 50%
62.5% kin over 40%
50% therm over 20%
+3 mid slots
+50% more powergrid
2x the capacitor
2x the shield hp
+35% more hull hp


Sure sounds defenseless to me. And oh yeah T1 industrials use those low slots for tank all the time, riiiight. Have you ever played EVE before? Or do you just train skills and whine?

There is a lot of talk about how a Hulk, worth anywhere from 250 to 400 mil shouldn't be able to be destroyed by ships only a few mil.

This is a really poor way to determine the balance or unbalance of a game. Logically, a 5mil cruiser should be better than a 2mil cruiser. However there is an extremely critical flaw with this argument.

It only applies when the ships perform the same function.

Take the function of a Hulk, it's a really big mining platform. It can extract a lot of ore very quickly and hold a lot of it in order to cut down on trips to and from the station. It should stay far away from the battlefield and in the safty of hi-sec or well gaurded low/null sec

Now take the function of a Thorax, it's a ship meant to get up close and deal a lot of DPS and can do a good job at blowing up ships larger than itself. It a ship that should be on the front line, camping gates and attacking others effectively in solo and gang warfare.

One ship is meant for combat, the other isn't. Ask yourself this

Why should a ship that isn't meant for combat be well protected against a ship that is meant for combat?

That is the real question here. It has little to do with price.

A long time ago Hulks, mining ships not meant for combat were able to take down frigates, destroyers, and even a few cruisers (ships meant for combat). There is a reason why CCP nerfed the feasibility of the "Battle Hulk", the ship started doing things that it wasn't meant to do.

It's not about price, it's about function. Hulks aren't meant to fight, other ships are. Ships that aren't meant to fight shouldn't stand a chance against ships that are.

This also works among other topics regarding ship balance. Many people justify the Tengu's ability to blow up many things is because they are often worth several billion dollars. While that is an important factor, the Tengu and other T3s are meant to be jacks of all trades yet masters at none, that is their function.

Discuss

ORE designed the exhumers, ORE is a 0.0 NPC corp, therefore ORE designed them without suicide gankers in mind.

Yes, but... why can't Hulks be adapted to current circumstances?

Speaking of prices, instead of isk price balancing, how about we just increase the cost of a gank?

They can. People just choose not to.

It would be pretty cool if we could design our own ships from scratch. Downsides would be designing the limits and trade-offs into such a system, min-maxing, server load, etc..

Just think, in EvE, you are supposed to take responsibility for your actions and understand the idea of consequences, hence the need that said Hulks should be tanked, but alas they are not.

Instead people just want a 'higher authority" (CCP) to change things for them like a bunch of crybabies - just like RL.


EvE is getting too real.

Speaking of prices, instead of isk price balancing, how about we just increase the cost of a gank?

This has already happened. Why does it need to happen again so soon?

There is a lot of talk about how a Hulk, worth anywhere from 250 to 400 mil shouldn't be able to be destroyed by ships only a few mil.

This is a really poor way to determine the balance or unbalance of a game. Logically, a 5mil cruiser should be better than a 2mil cruiser. However there is an extremely critical flaw with this argument.

It only applies when the ships perform the same function.

Take the function of a Hulk, it's a really big mining platform. It can extract a lot of ore very quickly and hold a lot of it in order to cut down on trips to and from the station. It should stay far away from the battlefield and in the safty of hi-sec or well gaurded low/null sec

Now take the function of a Thorax, it's a ship meant to get up close and deal a lot of DPS and can do a good job at blowing up ships larger than itself. It a ship that should be on the front line, camping gates and attacking others effectively in solo and gang warfare.

One ship is meant for combat, the other isn't. Ask yourself this

Why should a ship that isn't meant for combat be well protected against a ship that is meant for combat?

That is the real question here. It has little to do with price.

A long time ago Hulks, mining ships not meant for combat were able to take down frigates, destroyers, and even a few cruisers (ships meant for combat). There is a reason why CCP nerfed the feasibility of the "Battle Hulk", the ship started doing things that it wasn't meant to do.

It's not about price, it's about function. Hulks aren't meant to fight, other ships are. Ships that aren't meant to fight shouldn't stand a chance against ships that are.

This also works among other topics regarding ship balance. Many people justify the Tengu's ability to blow up many things is because they are often worth several billion dollars. While that is an important factor, the Tengu and other T3s are meant to be jacks of all trades yet masters at none, that is their function.

Discuss

Yes, but... why can't Hulks be adapted to current circumstances? If ganking is a problem, then ship designers would be fairly quick to offer a tankier Hulk, or a less capable, but cheaper Hulk. As it stands, we're all kind of reliant on CCP to design the ships instead of letting the market (and the limits of Eve physics and engineering if they were modeled) decide how the sand in the sandbox should be arranged.

Methinks miners need a T3-ish style ship.

Because people keep attacking them, perhaps?

No ship in EVE should be defenseless. You are a legitimate target the second you undock.

Instead people just want a 'higher authority" (CCP) to change things for them like a bunch of crybabies - just like RL.


EvE is getting too real.

So you agree then ? *hands over a petition form* If I could just get your signature to un-nerf titans and we can get back to the whiners learning to take responsiblity for their actions of flying a ****** T1 battleship and the consequences are that they will lose it to a Titan with Tracking Enhancers. They did appeal to CCP to fix it and CCP did fix it, but you seem to agree with me that Titans should get back their asskicking ability with XL guns.