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N'baro Dark
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:03:00 -
[61] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
DONT sit AFK BE ALIGNED DONT BE STUPID
and learn the difference between aligning and being aligned tank (not hard to get to 25k EHP) keep an eye on local check dscan frequently
and shoot your hulk with an alt in a rookie ship right at the start. Nothing beats free Concord bodyguards.
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Victor Twenty
Odyssey Space Exploration
19
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:08:00 -
[62] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:If you put Damage Control II and Reinforced Bulkhead II on a Covetor then you have 11,586 EHP and about 90% the mining rate of a Hulk.
For something like a tenth the price? (Last time I looked, ship prices are all over the place.)
Plus the Covetor pays out semi-decent insurance.
WHY are people using Hulks?
They are next to worthless unless you only lose one for every, well, more than 1 billion ISK mined.
I have to completely agree with this statment, their is no reason to buy or use a hulk anymore, not while CCP allows highsec ganking with a destroyer. You arent as effecient but your risk vs reward is much more reasonable.
The simplest solution to the problem is give barges an increase in hull to be simalar to a Battleship, my reasons for this is because heavy equipment such as mining equipment should be built on a strong hull. This would prevent sucide ganking of hulks with anything short of a battleship, seems like a more reasonable risk vs reward to me.
The only people that this change would affect are low life gankers in destroyers. You can still gank hulks but not with a sub 1m isk destoryer, also these ships will exploded just the same in lowsec and null sec, you will just need to bring some extra dps. This change also provides plays with the chance to defend miners because they wouldnt pop instantly.
Vic20
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Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
332
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:10:00 -
[63] - Quote
Victor Twenty wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote:If you put Damage Control II and Reinforced Bulkhead II on a Covetor then you have 11,586 EHP and about 90% the mining rate of a Hulk.
For something like a tenth the price? (Last time I looked, ship prices are all over the place.)
Plus the Covetor pays out semi-decent insurance.
WHY are people using Hulks?
They are next to worthless unless you only lose one for every, well, more than 1 billion ISK mined. I have to completely agree with this statment, their is no reason to buy or use a hulk anymore, not while CCP allows highsec ganking with a destroyer. You arent as effecient but your risk vs reward is much more reasonable. The simplest solution to the problem is give barges an increase in hull to be simalar to a Battleship, my reasons for this is because heavy equipment such as mining equipment should be built on a strong hull. This would prevent sucide ganking of hulks with anything short of a battleship, seems like a more reasonable risk vs reward to me. The only people that this change would affect are low life gankers in destroyers. You can still gank hulks but not with a sub 1m isk destoryer, also these ships will exploded just the same in lowsec and null sec, you will just need to bring some extra dps. This change also provides plays with the chance to defend miners because they wouldnt pop instantly. Vic20 You are wrong. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
332
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:10:00 -
[64] - Quote
First of all with battleship-like hulls you'll still be gankable by a dozen destroyers.
You'll come back crying for even more EHP.
Ad ******* nauseum. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
332
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:13:00 -
[65] - Quote
Try not to mine AFK. You shouldn't be able to generate ISK with zero RISK.
But you can reduce the risk to near-zero.
Align. D-Scan at a reasonable range.
Warp if there's blips.
Sure it lowers efficiency in the short-term. But you live. And that's 250M+ in your pocket every time.
Make yourself a target, and that's what you are. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
332
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:13:00 -
[66] - Quote
By the way nice rules lawyer-y solution to the "problem." He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
332
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:13:00 -
[67] - Quote
Who changes these Hulk pilots' diapers when they're dirty? He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Victor Twenty
Odyssey Space Exploration
19
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:15:00 -
[68] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:First of all with battleship-like hulls you'll still be gankable by a dozen destroyers.
You'll come back crying for even more EHP.
Ad ******* nauseum.
I maybe wrong but you sir are ugly :)
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Steel Wraith
44
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:17:00 -
[69] - Quote
Wow. Five posts in a row to call out "hulk tears." Who's the one crying? |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
332
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:21:00 -
[70] - Quote
Steel Wraith wrote:Wow. Five posts in a row to call out "hulk tears." Who's the one crying? Clearly it's the ones with some sanity.
Obviously Hulks need 2M EHP and an old-school Doomsday Device.
Apologist filth. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
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Steel Wraith
44
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:26:00 -
[71] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Steel Wraith wrote:Wow. Five posts in a row to call out "hulk tears." Who's the one crying? Clearly it's the ones with some sanity. Obviously Hulks need 2M EHP and an old-school Doomsday Device. Apologist filth.
I agree with the points you make. Just don't be so emo about it. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
543
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:31:00 -
[72] - Quote
It's a gaussian curve.
many players fall inside a 2-3 accounts each bell, many only have 1, few have above 4.
Depending on how many catalysts an Hulk can survive, this quickly weeds out the statistical amount of players with enough accounts to gank the ship.
Because the opposite is also true: huge majority of suicide gankers are also 1 men solo tards so they won't go beyond their max number of concurrent connections to kill stuff. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
332
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:34:00 -
[73] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:It's a gaussian curve.
many players fall inside a 2-3 accounts each bell, many only have 1, few have above 4.
Depending on how many catalysts an Hulk can survive, this quickly weeds out the statistical amount of players with enough accounts to gank the ship.
Because the opposite is also true: huge majority of suicide gankers are also 1 men solo tards so they won't go beyond their max number of concurrent connections to kill stuff. You ignore something (or maybe forgot its existence): The FRIEND.
You cannot buff a ship to counter people having friends and claim you think that's fair.
Otherwise T1 Frigates should have 2M EHP. After all, they could be targeted by you and your friends.
This is the worst argument. Ever. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
55
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:36:00 -
[74] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:And an interesting thing to also think about, the basic thought is that a miner should use their brain and be proactive to keep themselves alive...means the pilot should take the necessary steps and CCP doesn't need to buff hulks. Since so many people are using that line of thought... un-nerf titans since the whiners can't cope and use their own brains to counter Titans. They didn't need a nerf, since the pilots in sub cap ships can't figure out how to counter them just as much as a miner needs to counter getting ganked themselves...in both cases CCP doesn't need to step in at all. Logic! Un-nerf Titans and let the players deal with the issues...plus the whines it generates are just erotic to listen to
I like it when miners talk about titans it's hilarious |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
219
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:43:00 -
[75] - Quote
I fly Hulks to maximize my yield...and I fit them that way too. Sure I have a shield tank fitted, but no low slot tank modules or rigs.
To me, that's the entire point of a Hulk...yield.
Ganking is a side issue, and while annoying, it can be avoided to some extent by paying attention. If somebody is determined to gank you, they can no matter how much you tank the damned things, so why not go for yield, and then chose locations and times more carefully?
Now granted, I wouldn't say no to buffs for my Hulks, if they came along. But I'd still take a yield buff over a tank buff if I had a choice, because mining is pretty mindless, so I'd like to be able to gather as much ore as possible in the times I have to mine...and you'd really have to buff the Hulk an awful lot to make it financially prohibitive to gank....and many gankers say tears are "priceless" anyways. Kinda hard to argue with that kind of logic. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
332
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:45:00 -
[76] - Quote
Ana Vyr wrote:I fly Hulks to maximize my yield...and I fit them that way too. Sure I have a shield tank fitted, but no low slot tank modules or rigs.
To me, that's the entire point of a Hulk...yield.
Ganking is a side issue, and while annoying, it can be avoided to some extent by paying attention. If somebody is determined to gank you, they can no matter how much you tank the damned things, so why not go for yield, and then chose locations and times more carefully?
Now granted, I wouldn't say no to buffs for my Hulks, if they came along. But I'd still take a yield buff over a tank buff if I had a choice, because mining is pretty mindless, so I'd like to be able to gather as much ore as possible in the times I have to mine...and you'd really have to buff the Hulk an awful lot to make it financially prohibitive to gank....and many gankers say tears are "priceless" anyways. Kinda hard to argue with that kind of logic. I +1'd this to prove that miners can, in fact, think and act for themselves.
It may not be trendy among their ilk, but it isn't unheard of.
The most sensible post I've seen from a miner on the topic, bar none. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
543
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:54:00 -
[77] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:It's a gaussian curve.
many players fall inside a 2-3 accounts each bell, many only have 1, few have above 4.
Depending on how many catalysts an Hulk can survive, this quickly weeds out the statistical amount of players with enough accounts to gank the ship.
Because the opposite is also true: huge majority of suicide gankers are also 1 men solo tards so they won't go beyond their max number of concurrent connections to kill stuff. You ignore something (or maybe forgot its existence): The FRIEND. You cannot buff a ship to counter people having friends and claim you think that's fair. Otherwise T1 Frigates should have 2M EHP. After all, they could be targeted by you and your friends. This is the worst argument. Ever.
Did the evil bunny hit you on the nose? So bitter!
I did not even talk about buffing or nerfing, just about the effects that rising or lowering the tank would have versus the statistical average of gankers accounts. That's it. If you read more than the end of the bottle, then you smack your nose in the glass bottom. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
55
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:57:00 -
[78] - Quote
https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/179947277178241025
most popular shiptype in the game
no buff needed |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
332
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:59:00 -
[79] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:It's a gaussian curve.
many players fall inside a 2-3 accounts each bell, many only have 1, few have above 4.
Depending on how many catalysts an Hulk can survive, this quickly weeds out the statistical amount of players with enough accounts to gank the ship.
Because the opposite is also true: huge majority of suicide gankers are also 1 men solo tards so they won't go beyond their max number of concurrent connections to kill stuff. You ignore something (or maybe forgot its existence): The FRIEND. You cannot buff a ship to counter people having friends and claim you think that's fair. Otherwise T1 Frigates should have 2M EHP. After all, they could be targeted by you and your friends. This is the worst argument. Ever. Did the evil bunny hit you on the nose? So bitter! I did not even talk about buffing or nerfing, just about the effects that rising or lowering the tank would have versus the statistical average of gankers accounts. That's it. If you read more than the end of the bottle, then you smack your nose in the glass bottom.
I fully see that it's a curve. But stating the obvious is counterproductive and I think we all knew it was a curve before.
Of course if you raise its EHP it will take more dudes. Of course if you lower its EHP it will take less dudes.
Your sole point still ignored friends, which made it pretty much moot anyway.
Given, given, bad presumption. Good talking points though in your rebuttal. I'll watch out for the bottom of that bottle. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
332
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Posted - 2012.04.12 18:00:00 -
[80] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/179947277178241025
most popular shiptype in the game
no buff needed
God damn, the Hulk even beats THE CAPSULE.
Wow. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
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Welsige
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
36
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Posted - 2012.04.12 18:19:00 -
[81] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Covetors still get ganked.
Honestly, I don't know why people take part in Hulkageddon when it's blatantly an attempt at market manipulation, and both the miners and the gankers suffer a loss.
Because of fun? ~ 10.058 ~
Free The Mittani |
fido gotran over
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2012.04.12 18:35:00 -
[82] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Shaddup shaddup Shaddup I mine in my rookie ship. TWO high slots!
also all rookie ships can use a light drone now -- the velator even gets two lights so you can use mining drones as well |
Selak Zorander
Mord-Sith
0
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Posted - 2012.04.12 18:47:00 -
[83] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Try not to mine AFK. You shouldn't be able to generate ISK with zero RISK.
But you can reduce the risk to near-zero.
Align. D-Scan at a reasonable range.
Warp if there's blips.
Sure it lowers efficiency in the short-term. But you live. And that's 250M+ in your pocket every time.
Make yourself a target, and that's what you are.
how do you mine AFK in a hulk...if your AFK the hold is full before the 2nd or 3rd cycle (assuming you fit a tank like every one is suggesting.
That gives you want 6 minutes before you need to either dock to empty or you have to create a jet can or move the ore to an orca or other suitable conntainer.
That does not seem very AFK to me since you have to pay attention every 6 minutes. Unless your talking about a bot that does all that for you but that is a whole different story there.
You want to know the AFK miners, go find the industrials sitting in a belt in 0.9 space with that one mining laser mining whatever rock they are parked next to for an hour or more between having to find another rock...That is AFK mining. not the 6 minutes you get from a hulk.
think about it a second. 8000 m3 cargo before expanders added. The three strip miners combined (even tech 1) pull atleast 4500 m3 of ore per three minute cycle. so yeah strip miners is not AFK mining. It may be Low attention mining but not AFK. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
333
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 18:51:00 -
[84] - Quote
Selak Zorander wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Try not to mine AFK. You shouldn't be able to generate ISK with zero RISK.
But you can reduce the risk to near-zero.
Align. D-Scan at a reasonable range.
Warp if there's blips.
Sure it lowers efficiency in the short-term. But you live. And that's 250M+ in your pocket every time.
Make yourself a target, and that's what you are. how do you mine AFK in a hulk...if your AFK the hold is full before the 2nd or 3rd cycle (assuming you fit a tank like every one is suggesting. That gives you want 6 minutes before you need to either dock to empty or you have to create a jet can or move the ore to an orca or other suitable conntainer. That does not seem very AFK to me since you have to pay attention every 6 minutes. Unless your talking about a bot that does all that for you but that is a whole different story there. You want to know the AFK miners, go find the industrials sitting in a belt in 0.9 space with that one mining laser mining whatever rock they are parked next to for an hour or more between having to find another rock...That is AFK mining. not the 6 minutes you get from a hulk. think about it a second. 8000 m3 cargo before expanders added. The three strip miners combined (even tech 1) pull atleast 4500 m3 of ore per three minute cycle. so yeah strip miners is not AFK mining. It may be Low attention mining but not AFK.
So you are basically trying to claim you can't be ganked between having to pay attention every six minutes to your ******* cargo hold?
Yeah, the odds are way in your favor there, genius. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
458
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Posted - 2012.04.12 18:53:00 -
[85] - Quote
Aranakas wrote: Covetors still get ganked.
Honestly, I don't know why people take part in Hulkageddon when it's blatantly an attempt at market manipulation, and both the miners and the gankers suffer a loss.
I see that you fail to understand the very mechanics you are posting about. I have yet to take a loss ganking miners. I AM ******* PISSED OFF THAT EVE WILL NOT RUN ON MY COMMODORE 64. **** THAT **** I QUIT. take all my isk for 1 trit. |
Baneken
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
99
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Posted - 2012.04.12 19:10:00 -
[86] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Selak Zorander wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Try not to mine AFK. You shouldn't be able to generate ISK with zero RISK.
But you can reduce the risk to near-zero.
Align. D-Scan at a reasonable range.
Warp if there's blips.
Sure it lowers efficiency in the short-term. But you live. And that's 250M+ in your pocket every time.
Make yourself a target, and that's what you are. how do you mine AFK in a hulk...if your AFK the hold is full before the 2nd or 3rd cycle (assuming you fit a tank like every one is suggesting. That gives you want 6 minutes before you need to either dock to empty or you have to create a jet can or move the ore to an orca or other suitable conntainer. That does not seem very AFK to me since you have to pay attention every 6 minutes. Unless your talking about a bot that does all that for you but that is a whole different story there. You want to know the AFK miners, go find the industrials sitting in a belt in 0.9 space with that one mining laser mining whatever rock they are parked next to for an hour or more between having to find another rock...That is AFK mining. not the 6 minutes you get from a hulk. think about it a second. 8000 m3 cargo before expanders added. The three strip miners combined (even tech 1) pull atleast 4500 m3 of ore per three minute cycle. so yeah strip miners is not AFK mining. It may be Low attention mining but not AFK. So you are basically trying to claim you can't be ganked between having to pay attention every six minutes to your ******* cargo hold?Yeah, the odds are way in your favor there, genius.
And how much ore you think he generates by being at the keyboard for those full 6-minutes, none. Only thing you get from watching is to see your d-scan and strip miners slowly filling up, hardly an exiting sight. I rather do incursions equally afk but 10x times more ISK with 10x less effort and no one will ever try ganking you. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
334
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Posted - 2012.04.12 19:13:00 -
[87] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Selak Zorander wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Try not to mine AFK. You shouldn't be able to generate ISK with zero RISK.
But you can reduce the risk to near-zero.
Align. D-Scan at a reasonable range.
Warp if there's blips.
Sure it lowers efficiency in the short-term. But you live. And that's 250M+ in your pocket every time.
Make yourself a target, and that's what you are. how do you mine AFK in a hulk...if your AFK the hold is full before the 2nd or 3rd cycle (assuming you fit a tank like every one is suggesting. That gives you want 6 minutes before you need to either dock to empty or you have to create a jet can or move the ore to an orca or other suitable conntainer. That does not seem very AFK to me since you have to pay attention every 6 minutes. Unless your talking about a bot that does all that for you but that is a whole different story there. You want to know the AFK miners, go find the industrials sitting in a belt in 0.9 space with that one mining laser mining whatever rock they are parked next to for an hour or more between having to find another rock...That is AFK mining. not the 6 minutes you get from a hulk. think about it a second. 8000 m3 cargo before expanders added. The three strip miners combined (even tech 1) pull atleast 4500 m3 of ore per three minute cycle. so yeah strip miners is not AFK mining. It may be Low attention mining but not AFK. So you are basically trying to claim you can't be ganked between having to pay attention every six minutes to your ******* cargo hold?Yeah, the odds are way in your favor there, genius. And how much ore you think he generates by being at the keyboard for those full 6-minutes, none. Only thing you get from watching is to see your d-scan and strip miners slowly filling up, hardly an exiting sight. I rather do incursions equally afk but 10x times more ISK with 10x less effort and no one will ever try ganking you. He gets to keep his Hulk and minerals instead of losing them.
So I guess I miss your ******* point to be honest.
Also LOL@ AFK Incursions after Escalation. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
450
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Posted - 2012.04.12 19:36:00 -
[88] - Quote
gfldex wrote:A Covetor doesn't work. If you got maxed out skills you fill your cargo hold with one cycle of one laser. You will lose ore due to full cargo holds. That ain't much of a problem tho, because you don't got the capa to run 3 T2 strip miners anyways.
Do it Capa! Capa. Do it.
1 million ISK to the first person to evemail me with the name of the movie I just referenced.
lol reward claimed, hella fast.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
545
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 21:07:00 -
[89] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:
I fully see that it's a curve. But stating the obvious is counterproductive and I think we all knew it was a curve before.
Of course if you raise its EHP it will take more dudes. Of course if you lower its EHP it will take less dudes.
Your sole point still ignored friends, which made it pretty much moot anyway.
You and other forum frequent users maybe know everything but this is a general forum also read by newbies. I find better to repeat concepts than assuming all for known or - eventually - pointing them to some 2005 thread.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1516
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 21:17:00 -
[90] - Quote
I thought it was common knowledge the Hulk was supposed to be able to smash everything in it's path.
PAINT IT GREEN AND MAKE IS SO!!! When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
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