The Hulk isn't 500% improvement over the Covetor so I see no need to spend the 500% extra for it.

Honestly, I don't know why people take part in Hulkageddon when it's blatantly an attempt at market manipulation, and both the miners and the gankers suffer a loss.

The Hulk isn't 500% improvement over the Covetor so I see no need to spend the 500% extra for it.

I'm not even a bloody miner and I agree with this. Why is a mining ship more expensive than a battleship when it's not even capable of pulling in the same isk/hour (as running missions/incursions)? Isk/hour is a hulk's supposed purpose, while combat is a battleship's supposed purpose.

I'm not even a bloody miner and I agree with this. Why is a mining ship more expensive than a battleship when it's not even capable of pulling in the same isk/hour (as running missions/incursions)? Isk/hour is a hulk's supposed purpose, while combat is a battleship's supposed purpose.

I'm not even a bloody miner and I agree with this. Why is a mining ship more expensive than a battleship when it's not even capable of pulling in the same isk/hour (as running missions/incursions)? Isk/hour is a hulk's supposed purpose, while combat is a battleship's supposed purpose.

90% the mining rate of a Hulk

Hulk gets 3% per level more than the covetor plus it can use 2 Mining laser upgrade II's as opposed to 1 T1.

The training needed for a Hulk only needs a few extra days after one has trained for a Covetor. People think of it as a major gain when they can get from a T1 ship into a T2 ship with such a short amount of training and it becomes one of the major incentives for doing it. The Hulk not only mines a little better, but it can be rigged and fitted to hold a significantly larger amount of ore then the Covetor. It means one can stay longer in the belt and also longer away from the keyboard.

The training needed for a Hulk only needs a few extra days

Same for the Rapier. Why is it so expensive, when it's neither capable of achieving the BS isk/hour levels when running missions/incursion nor is it capable of achieving Hulk isk/hour levels when mining?

And there it is.

There it ******* is.

Miners want to engage in riskless activity to grow their wallets while they are AFK.

This does not come down to personal playstyle choices. It comes down to laziness, greed, and risk aversion of sickening proportions.

And there it is.

There it ******* is.

Miners want to engage in riskless activity to grow their wallets while they are AFK.

This does not come down to personal playstyle choices. It comes down to laziness, greed, and risk aversion of sickening proportions.

Yeah, being able to undock a ship is all you need to train for. And now let's hear miners comment on PvP ships.

Whatever funny opinion you have on the miners do you also need to admit that the Hulk with its 35 PG and the cost of currently 300m ISK is funnier than those who choose to fly it.

Who is the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?
-Obi-wan Kenobi
A New Hope

You miners should take a cue from old Obi-wan.

WHAT??!?

You want to use slots for non-tank equipment on a mining barge?

Radical extermist you are

If you put Damage Control II and Reinforced Bulkhead II on a Covetor then you have 11,586 EHP and about 90% the mining rate of a Hulk.

For something like a tenth the price? (Last time I looked, ship prices are all over the place.)

Plus the Covetor pays out semi-decent insurance.

WHY are people using Hulks?

They are next to worthless unless you only lose one for every, well, more than 1 billion ISK mined.

Who is the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?
-Obi-wan Kenobi
A New Hope Star Wars

I have an interesting suggestion. Why don't you whiny Hulk miners move out to nullsec? The mining there is much more profitable, you don't get harassed anywhere near as much, and you don't have total shitheels flying around being ********.

I have an interesting suggestion. Why don't you whiny Hulk miners move out to nullsec? The mining there is much more profitable, you don't get harassed anywhere near as much, and you don't have total shitheels flying around being ********.

^ 400ish - 500ish dps and less tank v. 900dps and way better perma boost tank isn't 1x times better? With less sig to boot?

**** me you got high standards.

A Covetor doesn't work. If you got maxed out skills you fill your cargo hold with one cycle of one laser. You will lose ore due to full cargo holds. That ain't much of a problem tho, because you don't got the capa to run 3 T2 strip miners anyways.

Nice try.

Tengu HAM -> Nighthawk HAM -> Tengu HM -> Nighthawk HM

If you compare Tengu HAM v Nighthawk HM ... then yes, you get 500 DPS v 900 DPS.

Now try Tengu HAM v Nighthawk HAM .. 900 v 800 DPS.

Not that much anymore. For sure not 4 times as much ;).

PS: Using HM it's only 670 v 600 DPS.
+70 != 4 times as much

If you put Damage Control II and Reinforced Bulkhead II on a Covetor then you have 11,586 EHP and about 90% the mining rate of a Hulk.

For something like a tenth the price? (Last time I looked, ship prices are all over the place.)

Plus the Covetor pays out semi-decent insurance.

WHY are people using Hulks?

They are next to worthless unless you only lose one for every, well, more than 1 billion ISK mined.

Because like anything you play the odds.
Most players beat the odds, some do not.

With hulkageddon coming up anyone mining with a hulk is no longer playing the odds, but rather just a moron (unless your in null sec or W-space).

Your Covetor is gonna get blown up as well, but at least you can possibly make back the money lost before your next Covetor gets blown up. Not gonna happen in a hulk.

I have a friend thats mined straight through hulkageddon the last three/four times in a hulk and never had an issue.
Mine where people arent

One time a friend of mine t-boned hit by a dump truck while on a motorcycle and survived without a scratch, that must mean that getting hit by a truck is completely risk free.

The smart hulkegeddon gankers will search low population systems rather than competing with other gankers in high population systems, your friend just got lucky or was in one of the two places that I mentioned.

With hulkageddon coming up anyone mining with a hulk is no longer playing the odds, but rather just a moron (unless your in null sec or W-space).

Your Covetor is gonna get blown up as well, but at least you can possibly make back the money lost before your next Covetor gets blown up. Not gonna happen in a hulk.

Not True.

If you ever mined in 0.0 and carry over the same basic rules to high-sec you will have very little to no Issues.

The problem is there are too many complacent miners out there,

My favourite hulk setup mines 1650 m3/minute.

My favorite covetor setup mines 1600 m3/minute.

And there it is.

There it ******* is.

Miners want to engage in riskless activity to grow their wallets while they are AFK.

This does not come down to personal playstyle choices. It comes down to laziness, greed, and risk aversion of sickening proportions.

I'm sure combat ships would never do this... Level 4 drone boats must not count because combat is waaaayyyy coolllah than mining.

As a miner myself, I can honestly say most miners are stupid. There's nothing wrong with hulks at all. I could go on and on about how my 6 bilion isk jump freighter should be able to tank 12 tornados.

Fact of the matter is I've only ever been ganked once, and it was because I choose to mine somewhere other people go. Go to empty systems, mine to your heart's content. Even if you have to sell your minerals at reduced prices to get people with freighters to come get them, you'll still come out ahead because you'll be pulling in more isk/hour than a Covetor would 2 jumps from Jita.

Waiting for you to try ice mine.

You know, the thing where you have nowhere to go but with other 40 guys.

DONT sit AFK
BE ALIGNED
DONT BE STUPID

If you put Damage Control II and Reinforced Bulkhead II on a Covetor then you have 11,586 EHP and about 90% the mining rate of a Hulk.

For something like a tenth the price? (Last time I looked, ship prices are all over the place.)

Plus the Covetor pays out semi-decent insurance.

WHY are people using Hulks?

They are next to worthless unless you only lose one for every, well, more than 1 billion ISK mined.

I have to completely agree with this statment, their is no reason to buy or use a hulk anymore, not while CCP allows highsec ganking with a destroyer. You arent as effecient but your risk vs reward is much more reasonable.

The simplest solution to the problem is give barges an increase in hull to be simalar to a Battleship, my reasons for this is because heavy equipment such as mining equipment should be built on a strong hull. This would prevent sucide ganking of hulks with anything short of a battleship, seems like a more reasonable risk vs reward to me.

The only people that this change would affect are low life gankers in destroyers. You can still gank hulks but not with a sub 1m isk destoryer, also these ships will exploded just the same in lowsec and null sec, you will just need to bring some extra dps. This change also provides plays with the chance to defend miners because they wouldnt pop instantly.

Vic20

First of all with battleship-like hulls you'll still be gankable by a dozen destroyers.

You'll come back crying for even more EHP.

Ad ******* nauseum.

Wow. Five posts in a row to call out "hulk tears." Who's the one crying?

Clearly it's the ones with some sanity.

Obviously Hulks need 2M EHP and an old-school Doomsday Device.

Apologist filth.

It's a gaussian curve.

many players fall inside a 2-3 accounts each bell, many only have 1, few have above 4.

Depending on how many catalysts an Hulk can survive, this quickly weeds out the statistical amount of players with enough accounts to gank the ship.

Because the opposite is also true: huge majority of suicide gankers are also 1 men solo tards so they won't go beyond their max number of concurrent connections to kill stuff.

And an interesting thing to also think about, the basic thought is that a miner should use their brain and be proactive to keep themselves alive...means the pilot should take the necessary steps and CCP doesn't need to buff hulks. Since so many people are using that line of thought...un-nerf titans since the whiners can't cope and use their own brains to counter Titans. They didn't need a nerf, since the pilots in sub cap ships can't figure out how to counter them just as much as a miner needs to counter getting ganked themselves...in both cases CCP doesn't need to step in at all. Logic! Un-nerf Titans and let the players deal with the issues...plus the whines it generates are just erotic to listen to

I fly Hulks to maximize my yield...and I fit them that way too. Sure I have a shield tank fitted, but no low slot tank modules or rigs.

To me, that's the entire point of a Hulk...yield.

Ganking is a side issue, and while annoying, it can be avoided to some extent by paying attention. If somebody is determined to gank you, they can no matter how much you tank the damned things, so why not go for yield, and then chose locations and times more carefully?

Now granted, I wouldn't say no to buffs for my Hulks, if they came along. But I'd still take a yield buff over a tank buff if I had a choice, because mining is pretty mindless, so I'd like to be able to gather as much ore as possible in the times I have to mine...and you'd really have to buff the Hulk an awful lot to make it financially prohibitive to gank....and many gankers say tears are "priceless" anyways. Kinda hard to argue with that kind of logic.

You ignore something (or maybe forgot its existence): The FRIEND.

You cannot buff a ship to counter people having friends and claim you think that's fair.

Otherwise T1 Frigates should have 2M EHP. After all, they could be targeted by you and your friends.

This is the worst argument. Ever.

Did the evil bunny hit you on the nose? So bitter!

I did not even talk about buffing or nerfing, just about the effects that rising or lowering the tank would have versus the statistical average of gankers accounts.
That's it. If you read more than the end of the bottle, then you smack your nose in the glass bottom.

https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/179947277178241025

most popular shiptype in the game

no buff needed

Covetors still get ganked.

Honestly, I don't know why people take part in Hulkageddon when it's blatantly an attempt at market manipulation, and both the miners and the gankers suffer a loss.

Shaddup shaddup Shaddup I mine in my rookie ship. TWO high slots!

Try not to mine AFK. You shouldn't be able to generate ISK with zero RISK.

But you can reduce the risk to near-zero.

Align. D-Scan at a reasonable range.

Warp if there's blips.

Sure it lowers efficiency in the short-term. But you live. And that's 250M+ in your pocket every time.

Make yourself a target, and that's what you are.

how do you mine AFK in a hulk...if your AFK the hold is full before the 2nd or 3rd cycle (assuming you fit a tank like every one is suggesting.

That gives you want 6 minutes before you need to either dock to empty or you have to create a jet can or move the ore to an orca or other suitable conntainer.

That does not seem very AFK to me since you have to pay attention every 6 minutes. Unless your talking about a bot that does all that for you but that is a whole different story there.

You want to know the AFK miners, go find the industrials sitting in a belt in 0.9 space with that one mining laser mining whatever rock they are parked next to for an hour or more between having to find another rock...That is AFK mining. not the 6 minutes you get from a hulk.

think about it a second. 8000 m3 cargo before expanders added. The three strip miners combined (even tech 1) pull atleast 4500 m3 of ore per three minute cycle. so yeah strip miners is not AFK mining. It may be Low attention mining but not AFK.

Covetors still get ganked.

Honestly, I don't know why people take part in Hulkageddon when it's blatantly an attempt at market manipulation, and both the miners and the gankers suffer a loss.

So you are basically trying to claim you can't be ganked between having to pay attention every six minutes to your ******* cargo hold?

Yeah, the odds are way in your favor there, genius.

And how much ore you think he generates by being at the keyboard for those full 6-minutes, none.
Only thing you get from watching is to see your d-scan and strip miners slowly filling up, hardly an exiting sight.
I rather do incursions equally afk but 10x times more ISK with 10x less effort and no one will ever try ganking you.

A Covetor doesn't work. If you got maxed out skills you fill your cargo hold with one cycle of one laser. You will lose ore due to full cargo holds. That ain't much of a problem tho, because you don't got the capa to run 3 T2 strip miners anyways.

I fully see that it's a curve. But stating the obvious is counterproductive and I think we all knew it was a curve before.

Of course if you raise its EHP it will take more dudes. Of course if you lower its EHP it will take less dudes.

Your sole point still ignored friends, which made it pretty much moot anyway.

Because of fun?

Good question.

Oh, and reduce the current tank on the barges / exhumers to at least 1/10th its current total. This is to force people to stop mining, gankers get their killmails and in the process shoot themselves in the foot since no one will be able to mine minerals. You know that theory, about having too many predators in a given area will eventually kill off the prey...yeah that is EVE precisely since everyone wants to be the wolf who consider the miners to be chickens and sheep.
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You mean because your masters tell you to. Same reason you vote for mittens

I like it when people tell their adversaries why they do things on the internet. Its so 21st Centry-ish.

I like it when their alts fight back

see this hulkageddon thing is waaaaaay overblown as to how dangerous it is to mine in and thats really the only way they have an effect as far as an impact on mineral prices during it. Ppl like the above perpetuate the stereotype its more dangerous than it normally is (lol its really not, you ALWAYS have people out gunning for you when youre mining so its not THAT different). When DONT you have gankers looking for you in this game when you mine?

and yes, your argument will be valid when it happens 4 times in a row.

He's got 3 more tries at it to go

WHY are people using Hulks?

It gets rid of bots!

... and way more cap then a Covetor you cannot run T2 strips with T2 crystals on a Covetor plus ...

3. You are still going to get ganked.

And there it is.

There it ******* is.

Miners want to engage in riskless activity to grow their wallets while they are AFK.

This does not come down to personal playstyle choices. It comes down to laziness, greed, and risk aversion of sickening proportions.

And again, like I've said in other threads: The Hulk is a broken design.

As pointed out by peoples posts, apart from cost, it utterly eclipses the Covetor in every other way. The main bonuses are cargo hold and the fact that the extra MLU and the exhumers skill give it a rather big boost in mining amounts.

Which is very wrong considering T2 are meant to be specialised vessels and not just all around better (the Skiff and Mack are designed well though, with being better at Mercox and Ice respectively).

It does not, it supports them. The weak ship designs keep away the actual players, because for us do the ships only suck. What is right is that better ships help the botters, too. If weak ships would get rid of botters then when could ultimately simply remove the ships - it is fail.

It does not, it supports them. The weak ship designs keep away the actual players, because for us do the ships only suck. What is right is that better ships help the botters, too. If weak ships would get rid of botters then when could ultimately simply remove the ships - it is fail.

Covetor with DC and survey scanner has 9.7k EHP and a yield of 1360
Hulk with DC and survey scanner has 21.9K EHP and a yield of 1730

That's more than 25% increase in yield while having more tank. Now compare that to people buying implants, faction BS and whatnot. They'd pay through their nose to get a 25+% increase in performance. There's your answer.

The Hulk isn't 500% improvement over the Covetor so I see no need to spend the 500% extra for it.

So you are basically trying to claim you can't be ganked between having to pay attention every six minutes to your ******* cargo hold?

Yeah, the odds are way in your favor there, genius.