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+6 implants should be seeded, even if they're incredibly expensive.

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Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2008.12.16 13:10:00 - [1] Make them cost 200k LP's each. Plenty of mission runnners have nothing to do with their LP's except convert them directly into isk anyway. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.12.16 13:15:00 - [2] Why "should" they be seeded? If you need something to spend your LP/isk on, try a rigged faction ship as fancy shuttle (that's what I did ). FREE! jumpclone service
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2008.12.16 13:21:00 - [3] Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 16/12/2008 13:21:35 Been there, did that, pvp'd in a Nightmare, etc. +6's should be seeded for the same reason +5's were seeded and +4's before that. They're already coded into the game, it's a natural progression anyway, and for longterm players it means shaving a couple of days to a week of training off a high rank skill. And when you have everything else in the game(isk) covered, time becomes the final roadblock(or mud pit you wade through) against personal advancement. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.12.16 13:40:00 - [4] So why not add the +7s too? And where does it end? +20s? At least +5s are make some sense in that they provide the same bonus as the individual learning skills do. FREE! jumpclone service
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2008.12.16 13:43:00 - [5] Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 16/12/2008 13:46:06 Well +5's came in a couple of years after +4's, didn't they? What's wrong with going to +10's eventually if the game is still afloat after another decade? With the way skills take exponentially longer to train to level 5, and with the higher rank skills making this even longer, what's wrong with 5 more points in each attribute after another decade? I read somewhere that to train all skills to level 5 would take 60-70 years. So what if 20 years get shaved off that? Asking "where does it end? Why not +20's?" is like asking haven't you lived life to the fullest yet? Not until I die. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance OWN Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.16 14:34:00 - [6] Yay more implants that will extend the distance between old players and new ones, and reward people who sit in stations training rather than playing. Somehow I don't think CCP will do that.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2008.12.16 14:39:00 - [7] If old players do nothing but sit in stations and train skills, how are they a threat or competition for new players? And at any rate, get over the noobish mentality that older players have an unfair advantage because of their skill level. It's not true at all. I don't acknowledge it. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2008.12.16 15:06:00 - [8] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Make them cost 200k LP's each. Plenty of mission runnners have nothing to do with their LP's except convert them directly into isk anyway. yeah, you're right. Rich carebears need an even bigger advantage over n00bs and PvPers than they have already.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2008.12.16 15:26:00 - [9] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 16/12/2008 14:48:05 If old players do nothing but sit in stations and train skills, how are they a threat or competition for new players? And get over the noobish mentality that older players are somehow better at pvp because of their skill level. It's not true at all. I don't acknowledge it. Then who are these +6s for? POS exploiters who can afford to risk them in PvP @ ~400M each?
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2008.12.16 15:41:00 - [10] Originally by: Malcanis yeah, you're right. Rich carebears need an even bigger advantage over n00bs and PvPers than they have already. And how exactly do these rich carebears exercise their advantage that affects n00bs and PvPers? Originally by: Malcanis Then who are these +6s for? POS exploiters who can afford to risk them in PvP @ ~400M each? You might as well apply that question to +5's or any attribute implants. If you happen to have a problem with implants in general, I'm not interested in hearing it. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.12.16 17:27:00 - [11] Sure as long as you need cybernetics lvl 6 for them.
Aniel Zaar Gallente Light of Orion	Posted - 2008.12.16 18:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Sure as long as you need cybernetics lvl 6 for them. Fully support that argument. By the way, I am an Ishtar and T2 sentries fan. Fight to make the sentry damage rig work for all drones.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.16 19:19:00 - [13] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Make them cost 200k LP's each. Plenty of mission runnners have nothing to do with their LP's except convert them directly into isk anyway. Stop beeing a complete carebear then you get something to spend your isk and LP on.
Hesod Adee KDS Navy	Posted - 2008.12.16 20:46:00 - [14] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Originally by: Malcanis yeah, you're right. Rich carebears need an even bigger advantage over n00bs and PvPers than they have already. And how exactly do these rich carebears exercise their advantage that affects n00bs and PvPers? They can't. Which means your adding an ISK/LP sink to the game that servers no purpose. Having ISK pulled out to fast will also cause bad things to the economy. Quote: Originally by: Malcanis Then who are these +6s for? POS exploiters who can afford to risk them in PvP @ ~400M each? You might as well apply that question to +5's or any attribute implants. If you happen to have a problem with implants in general, I'm not interested in hearing it. Problem is that arguments against implants in general are also an argument against your suggestion. So unless your going ignore arguments against your idea, you need to respond to them. ---------------------------------------------- I support skill queues
Hesod Adee KDS Navy	Posted - 2008.12.16 20:47:00 - [15] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 16/12/2008 13:21:35 Been there, did that, pvp'd in a Nightmare, etc. +6's should be seeded for the same reason +5's were seeded and +4's before that. They're already coded into the game, it's a natural progression anyway, and for longterm players Well, longterm high sec players because they only need to buy them once. Long term PvP players will need to afford to replace them as they get podded. How many PvP players can afford to replace +5s now ? Then we have the widening of the gap between people wearing a training set, and people wearing pirate implants. If your going to say that the training speed reduction is an acceptable drawback, explain why the low grade pirate implants provide slower learning speed and a weaker effect on your ship. ---------------------------------------------- I support skill queues
Berikath	Posted - 2008.12.17 01:33:00 - [16] Edited by: Berikath on 17/12/2008 01:35:22 Originally by: Hesod Adee They can't. Which means your adding an ISK/LP sink to the game that servers no purpose. Having ISK pulled out to fast will also cause bad things to the economy. Selling implants for LPs does not pull ISK out of the economy. It redistributes it. In fact, arguably it would put more ISK into active trading, since it would pull a few billion from the high-end industrialists who never buy anything. Quote: Problem is that arguments against implants in general are also an argument against your suggestion. So unless your going ignore arguments against your idea, you need to respond to them. No he doesn't. The argument is the same against +6s as it is against +5s. It didn't work against +5s- they're in the game. Why should it work against +6s? The person proposing the argument needs to show some way which it is different from the argument against +5s for it to be credible. Originally by: Hesod Adee Well, longterm high sec players because they only need to buy them once. Long term PvP players will need to afford to replace them as they get podded. How many PvP players can afford to replace +5s now ? You're making a faulty assumption- namely, that PVPers will PVP with their full sets of +6 implants. If they can't afford to replace +5s, so they don't PVP with them, why should +6s be any different? Quote: Then we have the widening of the gap between people wearing a training set, and people wearing pirate implants. The problem with your argument is you're making a faulty assumption- namely, that people wearing pirate implants are competing with people who wear +5s all the time. In reality, they're competing against other people with pirate implants. Let's be honest- the only time the two groups fight is when the people with the pirate implants try to gank the carebears. How often are you on the losing end of that equation? Quote: If your going to say that the training speed reduction is an acceptable drawback, explain why the low grade pirate implants provide slower learning speed and a weaker effect on your ship. ... Same reason +1s train slower than +5s. They're not a hybrid between regular implants and +5s, they're lower quality.
Kufan'ni Minmatar Rosa Castellum	Posted - 2008.12.17 04:09:00 - [17] Edited by: Kufan''ni on 17/12/2008 04:09:42 We need a Behemoth class ship, which would be a step up from titans. Because when a pilot gets into a titan, they have no "next step up" to work for. Look at it this way, we started with frigs and cruisers with only the elite being able to afford a BS. Then T2 and caps were added, then supercaps, so it only makes sence to add a class above the supercaps. There are plenty of 0.0 alliances with fleets of titans and nothing better to do with their isk than buy bigger ships anyway. It could spawn out of its clonebay fleetmates who have been podded, and carry fully fitted ships for them to get right back into the fight, as well as having it's own wing of fighters for defense (ooh ooh, or sentry guns) while it warms up its rack of DDDs. Corpmates could even dock at it when not in battle. I mean if EVE is still around years from now it has to happen eventually, right? So why not now of all times? Edit: oops, I think I accidentally posted in the wrong thread.
Berikath	Posted - 2008.12.17 04:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Kufan'ni Edited by: Kufan''ni on 17/12/2008 04:09:42 We need a Behemoth class ship, which would be a step up from titans. Because when a pilot gets into a titan, they have no "next step up" to work for. Look at it this way, we started with frigs and cruisers with only the elite being able to afford a BS. Then T2 and caps were added, then supercaps, so it only makes sence to add a class above the supercaps. There are plenty of 0.0 alliances with fleets of titans and nothing better to do with their isk than buy bigger ships anyway. It could spawn out of its clonebay fleetmates who have been podded, and carry fully fitted ships for them to get right back into the fight, as well as having it's own wing of fighters for defense (ooh ooh, or sentry guns) while it warms up its rack of DDDs. Corpmates could even dock at it when not in battle. I mean if EVE is still around years from now it has to happen eventually, right? So why not now of all times? Edit: oops, I think I accidentally posted in the wrong thread. Well.... see, the problem with that reasoning is that they probably will add a ship bigger than titans at some point... and really, why wouldn't they want to add as much content as possible? I think when people start getting blobbed with titans, it might be time to give people something else to work for. Lots of people have +5s, why not add a new greatest and shiniest implant for the masses to work for?
Kufan'ni Minmatar Rosa Castellum	Posted - 2008.12.17 04:19:00 - [19] Edited by: Kufan''ni on 17/12/2008 04:22:32 Originally by: Berikath Well.... see, the problem with that reasoning is that they probably will add a ship bigger than titans at some point... and really, why wouldn't they want to add as much content as possible? I think when people start getting blobbed with titans, it might be time to give people something else to work for. Lots of people have +5s, why not add a new greatest and shiniest implant for the masses to work for? I'm all for the growth and advancement of EVE, but didn't you ever get told "the line has to be drawn somewhere" by your parents? As much as I hate to admit it, they were right, and I believe it's a simple bit of wisdom that shouldn't be ignored. +5s make sense because everything else regarding skills and learning is marked in 5s.
Berikath	Posted - 2008.12.17 04:37:00 - [20] Originally by: Kufan'ni I'm all for the growth and advancement of EVE, but didn't you ever get told "the line has to be drawn somewhere" by your parents? As much as I hate to admit it, they were right, and I believe it's a simple bit of wisdom that shouldn't be ignored. +5s make sense because everything else regarding skills and learning is marked in 5s. That may well be true. In fact, I think it would be really hard to implement +6s in a way that would make sense, and it's probably a better idea not to do it. That doesn't change the fact that your analogy is crap (no offense).
Markessa Hrethnor Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.12.17 04:47:00 - [21] Originally by: Kufan'ni Edited by: Kufan''ni on 17/12/2008 04:22:32 Originally by: Berikath Well.... see, the problem with that reasoning is that they probably will add a ship bigger than titans at some point... and really, why wouldn't they want to add as much content as possible? I think when people start getting blobbed with titans, it might be time to give people something else to work for. Lots of people have +5s, why not add a new greatest and shiniest implant for the masses to work for? I'm all for the growth and advancement of EVE, but didn't you ever get told "the line has to be drawn somewhere" by your parents? As much as I hate to admit it, they were right, and I believe it's a simple bit of wisdom that shouldn't be ignored. +5s make sense because everything else regarding skills and learning is marked in 5s. like, basic learnings to lvl 5 and implants to +5, and advanced learnings to lvl 5 and implants +0 more? gotcha.
Berikath	Posted - 2008.12.17 04:57:00 - [22] Originally by: Markessa Hrethnor like, basic learnings to lvl 5 and implants to +5, and advanced learnings to lvl 5 and implants +0 more? gotcha. Oh, didn't you know? They added in advanced learning implants a while ago. They give +5 to each attribute. I'll sell them to you for 300 mil each. It'll say they go in implant slots 1-5, but don't worry, you'll get the bonus!
Markessa Hrethnor Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.12.17 05:04:00 - [23] Originally by: Berikath Originally by: Markessa Hrethnor like, basic learnings to lvl 5 and implants to +5, and advanced learnings to lvl 5 and implants +0 more? gotcha. Oh, didn't you know? They added in advanced learning implants a while ago. They give +5 to each attribute. I'll sell them to you for 300 mil each. It'll say they go in implant slots 1-5, but don't worry, you'll get the bonus! bad maths, bad logics. gotcha! go go cowgirl!
Berikath	Posted - 2008.12.17 05:12:00 - [24] Originally by: Markessa Hrethnor bad maths, bad logics. gotcha! go go cowgirl! Pottsey, please try to keep your trolling to one thread... preferably the one you've already been trolling.
Markessa Hrethnor Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.12.17 07:32:00 - [25] Originally by: Berikath Originally by: Markessa Hrethnor bad maths, bad logics. gotcha! go go cowgirl! Pottsey, please try to keep your trolling to one thread... preferably the one you've already been trolling. yes, there must be only one person that doesn't agree. if making fun is trolling when i do it, what is it when you continue to do it? basic learning skills, adv. learning skills. basic cybernetics basic implants i fail to see the logic when comparing a total of 10 points gained from learning skills to 'logically' believing that cybernetics/implants being limited to one "tier" (i.e. 5 points) is equal.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2008.12.17 11:38:00 - [26] Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 17/12/2008 11:40:20 Originally by: Kufan'ni I'm all for the growth and advancement of EVE, but didn't you ever get told "the line has to be drawn somewhere" by your parents? As much as I hate to admit it, they were right, and I believe it's a simple bit of wisdom that shouldn't be ignored. +5s make sense because everything else regarding skills and learning is marked in 5s. The line doesn't have to be drawn anywhere. It's not wisdom, it's an arbitrary limit. You could have an advanced cybernetics skill, giving you +6, all the way +10 implants. Make it a Rank 10 if you like. And comparing +5's to Titans is an idiot's argument. New ships have been added constantly for the last five years and they've all been worthy additions. Tech 3 ships are just around the corner too. More with a purpose is better. The Titan being the biggest possible ship makes perfect sense to me. A bigger sized ship serves no practical purpose(I don't really agree even with the Titan's usefulness either). But people are seriously claiming that +6's and beyond are overkill? That's pathetic. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Myrhial Arkenath Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.12.17 14:34:00 - [27] Edited by: Myrhial Arkenath on 17/12/2008 14:35:41 With a new skill implants could go up to +10, but that would mean it would be as fast to train to +10 implants than get normal and advanced learning skills. The ISK it would cost would probably balance it out though. Still, there are the implant sets , which give +3 bonuses as well as boosts to things such as speed. While the bonusses would remain awesome the low value of the learning boost would suddenly make them less desired or mean they would need to be balanced with a new equivalent with the same or better bonus. If mission runners have too much LP's then perhaps they should find a nice ISK sink to dump them into. Or donate them to me Diary of a pod pilot
Krystal Demishy	Posted - 2008.12.17 15:02:00 - [28] this thread is made of blablabla...
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2008.12.17 15:31:00 - [29] Originally by: Krystal Demishy this thread is made of blablabla... Your face is made of blablabla. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
iioki	Posted - 2008.12.17 16:36:00 - [30] Edited by: iioki on 17/12/2008 16:39:15 Edited by: iioki on 17/12/2008 16:36:10 forget about Behemoth class ship, CCP should have a space station capable of destroying a planet in a single attack, like the Death Star. I would diffidently train Death Star Operation to lvl 5 for that.

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