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Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.12.26 11:31:00 - [31] You paint a pretty picture for the future of the Empire, Kathryn Dougans. I wish I had your trust. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Eran Mintor Valklear Guard	Posted - 2008.12.26 12:01:00 - [32] Edited by: Eran Mintor on 26/12/2008 12:02:58 Originally by: Aldrith Shatuq At long last the Empire has taken a step to give what its endentured people deserve: a chance to live along side all of the free peoples of the Empire as equals, striving to make it a better place for everyone. And yet somehow this is a bad thing, according the oh-so pleasantly cynical populace of the IGS. The way they were able to grant this "chance to live as equals" is only after millenia of taking that choice away. Complete emancipation has been long awaited by people who suffer and worry about being kidnapped in the night to become slaves for the rest of their lives. Because this is not complete emancipation, you cannot blame us for being less than estatic. I will settle for nothing less than the ABOLISHMENT of slavery in all 4 recognized nations. With that said, atleast you have made small progress. It however, is not enough. Some have said that "it's never enough". If you truely are devout men & women of God, then that statement couldn't be more true. There is no such thing as "enough", especially when refering to serving Him. Settling for what you have and what you've done is really surrender. If you wish to be the generation of Amarrians who will be highly revered in the eyes of God, then take leaps, not steps.
Karath Piki	Posted - 2008.12.26 12:51:00 - [33] I am not understanding what many seem to think this is about. Slavery exists for several reasons. First of all, those whose families have ignored God's will must serve penance for their sins. Secondly, they must remain slaves for as long as it takes them to adopt the True Faith as their own, discarding their own heathen or pagan ways. All this does is correct an imbalance in the Empire, ensuring those who are properly assimilated into the Faith and have paid their penance to God are recognized as such. The worst reasons in the world to own slaves include economic (it is normally horribly inefficient) and for purposes of feeding one's own ego-- one's fellow man is not there to work on your behalf, but on God's. Everything in the Empire happens for a reason. We were halted by the Jovians and the creation of CONCORD because we somehow were failing to uphold our vows and our faith properly. This edict corrects the one issue I had with slavery and tells me that we are moving beyond a need for CONCORD interference as a faithful people.
Valerius Lex Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.12.26 13:43:00 - [34] If I may, I would like to point out a few points that heretofore appear to have been neglected, namely concerns of economy and stability within the Empire as concerning any changes to its institution of slavery. Firstly, we need to consider the slaves themselves, and what they are to do upon their theoretical emancipation. These are, by and large, individuals that have been born and bred in the Empire. Their lives have been highly structured and regimented. They are not accustomed to self-determination, and their reactions to the sudden revolution of their life can easily be far from romantic. In all cases, the very practical reality of property and resources is paramount. Can/will they have any legal entitlement to property they utilized during their state of bondage? Where will they sleep? What clothes will they own? How will the obtain their first meal as free men and women? The answers to these queries are not yet evident for even the recently freed 9th generation, but were the scenario to be expanded to the entire slave population I have no doubt that the material problems associated would not be a mere linear increase. For those that do not immediately seek the refuge of a semblance of their former lives there are a great number of obstacles to be determined, and very few resources available to them. Firstly, there will be those who will decide against leaving the familiarity of the Empire for parts unknown, but will nonetheless attempt to seek a new form of employment. Yet, they may be faced with such basic challenges as a lack of formal training in fields of employment that they wish to pursue, a limited or even non-existent amount of resources to aid them while they attempt to find a suitable job, and potentially stiff competition from other former slaves for the same economical opportunities. Secondly, there are those that will seek the promise of a better life in the Republic, the Federation, or possibly even the State (hard to imagine as that is). Even if they are able to temporarily obtain basic necessities for themselves, securing off-world transport is even more daunting. Such people likely have only the vaguest notion of where to go, and a number no idea how to properly get there. While I have no doubt that a great number of honest and charitable organizations will make efforts similar to those that Electus Matari is presently offering, the efforts involved to effect such a program over the whole of Empire space are intimidating, to say the least. And for every honorable offer of transport out of Amarr space, there will be a dozen swindlers promising free or affordable passage that may lead the naive to a mid-space robbery, murder, or even delivery to new Blood Raider masters. And these are simply the hurdles associated with leaving the Amarr Empire. Assuming that they make it safely, one way or another, to a foreign spaceport, many of them will find themselves in a completely alien setting. At best they will be the subject of pity, looked upon as poor refugees. At worst they will be the subjects of exploitation by unsavory elements with no compunction against scamming or preying upon the unwary. But most likely they will be treated with contempt. The Federation will groan in protest as new immigrants contest with established populations for jobs. The State will be characteristically unforgiving to those that show they cannot perform satisfactorily and act within the expected behavior of a corporate citizen. Even the Republic Matari will conflict with their Amarrian-raised kinsmen when attempts to "reeducate" their freed brethren are initially rebuffed out of psychological reflex.
Valerius Lex Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.12.26 13:44:00 - [35] All this being said, there is one aspect of society that universally stands to benefit: the criminal underworld. All along the line it will be ready to catch those who are falling through the cracks as they try to reform their lives but find the circumstances insurmountable. To these the criminal elements will (metaphorically) open its arms wide and welcoming, eternally ready to swell its own ranks and to create a different form of enslavement for those who cannot make it on their own. To put it bluntly, the immediate and total emancipation of every slave within the borders of Amarr space, Matari or otherwise, is an economic and logistical nightmare. Such an event is only feasible is storybook scenarios and Matari paramilitary propaganda. I sincerely doubt that anyone advocating such action has taken the time to consider the long-standing consequences associated. To be honest however, much of the above are worst case scenarios. I am in no way trying to implicate that every freed slave leaving the Empire will actually be kidnapped by Blood Raiders or spirited away to Sansha's Nation for lobotomization. However, thy will happen, and the more slaves being freed, the greater the proportion that will be victimized. But by freeing a section of the slave population, we have been given the opportunity to a more controlled situation where we may work harder to prevent tragedies befalling the newly emancipated, as well as allowing us to more accurately observe the results so that in the possible event of a similar proclamation we will be even better able to aid them in the transition. --------- Now a more personal note- As to the politics of the Empress' declaration, I am somewhat torn. While my own liberal, borderline-"heretic" sensibilities were overjoyed that the seemingly impossible had happened, the cynic in me has been wondering if the Empress' actions are more self-serving. It is true that I doubt that a majority of the emancipated will actually leave, though more out of practical reasons than any purported brainwashing. Ask any family's bread winner who hates their job why they still work there. The reality is that normal human conditioning is not conducive to risking our own present security to unknown circumstances, much less risking one's family. Many would say that the Empire is simply phasing out slavery for a more Caldari-esque economic model. Yet regardless, I believe it is a step in the right direction. Moreover it appears to be a rational, and peaceful step, something that I find to be a pleasant surprise among so much of the grim recent history in the cluster. Perhaps Empress Jamyl will prove to be a better souvereign than my initially dim estimation had predicted....
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.12.26 14:55:00 - [36] Those who are foes of the Empire and its essential nature, yet welcome this act are fools. Living as a slave consists of more than wearing chains, shrinking from the whip and slavering animals, or being in thrall to vile drugs. The Empire under Jamyl is changing in surface appearance and to some extent in structure, to be sure, but it remains a cult of power above all else. Power of the few over the many. Power in the name of a dead god and his 'chosen'. Power as an object of worship in and of itself. Let not your guard slip. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Veron Daerth Amarr Blood Meridian	Posted - 2008.12.26 15:34:00 - [37] Indeed, this is most welcome news. I have just returned from a lengthy trip planetside to discover this bit of news, myself. I completely agree with Pilot Lex. As I have been saying for quite some time now, freeing all the slaves is lunacy, and would result in their abuse and eventual suffering in far greater numbers and ways than they could possibly currently suffer. Pilot Mintor, you have often said that you and those like you would only accept full emancipation. I suggest to you sir, that you are living in a fairy tale and should be happy with what you get, such as the emancipation of several hundred million slaves within the Empire. True, the vast majority of them will never leave, having lives, jobs, families, and homes here, as well as nine generations of history and ancestors here, but they will be free, and full citizens of the Empire, something I have long wished to happen and something I have espoused quite often. Be joyous sir, for their sakes if no other. I will take this time also to announce the emancipation of all the slaves currently in my service of whatever age and gender and their full induction into my House. I will be transmitting a decree addressing this to my Holdings as soon as I have finished here, and have appended a copy of it below. I urge all Holders to take this decree to heart and truly consider what it means. Be well, Pilots. <Copy appended> From this day forth, and so long as I Hold them, by my oath as Lord and Holder of the Amarr Empire, before God and Men and upon my eternal honor, I , Lord Veron Daerth, do hereby order and decree the emancipation of all slaves of the ninth generation and higher in my domains in accordance with the Imperial Decree given to us by Her Imperial Majesty, Empress Jamyl I. Further, and in the spirit of furthering Her Holy intent, and in reward of faithful service to me and my House, I also request and require the emancipation of all slaves of whatever age and gender whose names appear upon the lists that follow this decree. This action to be carried out no later than the second day of the next month, by my order and my hand, and in accordance with my will and that of the Empress herself. Long live the Empress, Long live the Empire. <transmission ends>
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.12.26 16:02:00 - [38] Originally by: Silver Night Edited by: Silver Night on 25/12/2008 23:14:10 Any thoughts on what this will do to the demand for first generation slaves? Congratulations to those who have been freed, I think we are all in for an interesting time. 9th generation and UP. So all slaves 9 generations back and any after that period of time are now free. The old generation slaves are the only ones still stuck...
Veron Daerth Amarr Blood Meridian	Posted - 2008.12.26 16:19:00 - [39] Pilot Maynard, the emancipation is for ninth generation and up, as in tenth, eleventh, and twelfth generation slaves, basically, the further back your ancestors were slaves, the better your chances of getting freed. If your a slave and your Great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather was a slave, then you are free. Any more "greats" in there also apply to you, any less, and you have to rely on your Holders whims to set you free. As has been mentioned, its a momentous occasion, and not just for those slaves of Matari descent, but those of other ancestry as well. I do not believe that such a mass emancipation has ever taken place in the Empire, not in recent memory at any rate. And to have their efforts recognized by the Empress Herself, incredible. Truly, they have been honored greatly this day.
Polinus Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.12.26 17:35:00 - [40] Originally by: Megan Maynard Originally by: Silver Night Edited by: Silver Night on 25/12/2008 23:14:10 Any thoughts on what this will do to the demand for first generation slaves? Congratulations to those who have been freed, I think we are all in for an interesting time. 9th generation and UP. So all slaves 9 generations back and any after that period of time are now free. The old generation slaves are the only ones still stuck... generations are counted in the OTHER direction. A first generation slave is a slave that was free and has been captured. A second generation slave is the son of the first generation slave.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.26 19:48:00 - [41] Here is where the benefit of having treated slaves humanely is repaid. Yesterday I issued an announcement to my slaves authorizing the immediate release of all 9th generation or older slaves as well as all slaves specialized in art and religion. While these are "slaves" in name they realize the gifts given them by the Amarr empire and it's way of life. I've already heard back that many freed individuals wish to stay in my employ and continue to serve the empire. While some slaves do wish to go to Matari space it is a small percentage and I am not concerned. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL
Saadok Ahoah Amarr Kor-Azor League	Posted - 2008.12.26 20:24:00 - [42] Originally by: Eran Mintor The way they were able to grant this "chance to live as equals" is only after millenia of taking that choice away. Let yourself be assured, we don't try to breed our stock at the age of a hundred years. The shortest time would thus be on the lines of mere 140 years of slavery, assuming the second generation were bred right after the capture of the first, though this would mean that the ninth generation has just born. I would place a realistic estimate on 200 - 250 years of gradual enlightment on the average. Need I say that there are people in Amarr who are older than that? Naturally there might be lines that can be traced back to the initial raids on Pator, but not that many. Well-learned lines of slaves will have raised from their position a long time ago into positions more fitting of civilized folk, of course. It is noteworthy how many, perhaps even the most Ni-Kunni are now free subjects of the Empire, while they were originally brought to our gentle care roughly at the same time as the savages from Pator.
Sophie Starsparrow	Posted - 2008.12.26 21:31:00 - [43] It is amazing to me that, every time the Empress speaks, confusion follows, and it is days before people begin to understand the full impact. I am heartened that so many of my people are happy that some slaves are being 'emancipated' and that any new slaves taken will only be held for nine generations. It especially warms my heart that, the 'fair' slave-holders (there must be one or two besides Lord Daerth) will not lose many of their slaves (who know no other life), but that the most vicious and cruel ones will, meaning newer slaves will end up with them in greater numbers. This, 'emancipation' seems like little more than a 'make work' program for slavers.
zoolkhan Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.26 21:39:00 - [44] Originally by: Cpt Constantinus She can free as many slaves as she wishes, i will keep mine. for a little while recruiting -forum
Pol Macsliebh Minmatar Ek'u Tan	Posted - 2008.12.26 22:44:00 - [45] Edited by: Pol Macsliebh on 26/12/2008 22:45:33 I don't Believe Jamyl is being as Transparent as people think. I will wait for her follow up "announcement" when she reveals her true goals. But I don't believe they will benefit any slaves under her control, So until then killing Amarr slavers and any who support slavery is the only real response.
Garion Avarr Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.	Posted - 2008.12.26 23:37:00 - [46] Originally by: Eran Mintor If you wish to be the generation of Amarrians who will be highly revered in the eyes of God, then take leaps, not steps. Amarrians do not leap.
Cpt Constantinus Celestial Janissaries	Posted - 2008.12.27 10:28:00 - [47] Originally by: zoolkhan Originally by: Cpt Constantinus She can free as many slaves as she wishes, i will keep mine. for a little while As long as Lord Lonewolf permits it, terrorist.
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.27 11:34:00 - [48] Originally by: Kathryn Dougans The Lord has told the Empress of the coming of a new age for the Empire. An age without slavery and mindless hatred of the non-Amarrians. Many Amarr had already reached that conclusion long ago - I hope many more will do so. *Let My People Go*
Sophia Cortez Amarr 133rd Imperial Wing	Posted - 2008.12.27 13:33:00 - [49] Originally by: Poreuomai Originally by: Kathryn Dougans The Lord has told the Empress of the coming of a new age for the Empire. An age without slavery and mindless hatred of the non-Amarrians. Many Amarr had already reached that conclusion long ago - I hope many more will do so. to bad you try to use terrorism to accomplish the same thing. but it NEVER was the awnser. you only brought the Emress's wrath over you. and don't even think that you had ANYTHING to do with the release of the slaves. it was the Empress who did that. your terrorism only served to anger the Lord and the Empress. i'd advise you to stop it while you still have a so called 'republic' to go back to!
Redbad Minmatar Mean Corp Mean Coalition	Posted - 2008.12.27 15:59:00 - [50] Edited by: Redbad on 27/12/2008 16:00:03
Redbad Minmatar Mean Corp Mean Coalition	Posted - 2008.12.27 16:03:00 - [51] Think; with this measure does she: a. Free slaves and is a nice lass? or b. Creates scarcity in cheap/free labour within her empire and thus stimulates the regular Amarrian in aquiring new, better and perhaps "fresh from the Republic" Slaves? ...I bet it's not a.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.12.27 16:30:00 - [52] Originally by: Silver Night Edited by: Silver Night on 25/12/2008 23:14:10 Any thoughts on what this will do to the demand for first generation slaves? Congratulations to those who have been freed, I think we are all in for an interesting time. Release them, wait a generation, then reclaim their children. I think the term for it is..."recycling". Besides, she's releasing people who've been enslaved so long, they have no memory of freedom. After ten generations of servitude, most of the directly passed down stories are forgotten. She's turning loose into the world a mass of people with no knowledge of anything but the Amarrian way of life now enhanced with the memory of a supremely enlightened gesture. I think there's quite a bit more going on here than meets the eye. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.27 19:05:00 - [53] Originally by: Sophia Cortez Originally by: Poreuomai Originally by: Kathryn Dougans The Lord has told the Empress of the coming of a new age for the Empire. An age without slavery and mindless hatred of the non-Amarrians. Many Amarr had already reached that conclusion long ago - I hope many more will do so. to bad you try to use terrorism to accomplish the same thing. We have never used terrorism to accomplish that. We have used military might to actually free slaves and to fight those who encourage slavery, but the long term answer is for the Amarr to understand the error of their ways. Originally by: Sophia Cortez but it NEVER was the awnser. you only brought the Emress's wrath over you. and don't even think that you had ANYTHING to do with the release of the slaves. it was the Empress who did that. your terrorism only served to anger the Lord and the Empress. i'd advise you to stop it while you still have a so called 'republic' to go back to! Would anyone even be talking about the slavery question if the various Minmatar groups did not continue to challenge the widespread Amarr attitude? *Let My People Go*
Polinus Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.12.27 20:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Janu Hull Originally by: Silver Night Edited by: Silver Night on 25/12/2008 23:14:10 Any thoughts on what this will do to the demand for first generation slaves? Congratulations to those who have been freed, I think we are all in for an interesting time. Release them, wait a generation, then reclaim their children. I think the term for it is..."recycling". Besides, she's releasing people who've been enslaved so long, they have no memory of freedom. After ten generations of servitude, most of the directly passed down stories are forgotten. She's turning loose into the world a mass of people with no knowledge of anything but the Amarrian way of life now enhanced with the memory of a supremely enlightened gesture. I think there's quite a bit more going on here than meets the eye. during history of mankind, here in new evdn and in the old galaxy, dozens of times slavery arose in about every civilization. And all the times it was successfully terminated was trough small steps, starting by the children of slaves being born free. Worked in past. Will work again.
Veron Daerth Amarr Blood Meridian	Posted - 2008.12.28 00:33:00 - [55] While I know not where Pilot Polinus gets his information as to the condition of slavery in the "old galaxy", I can assure you all that his words here do ring true. Yes, if the Ushra'Khan and Electus Matari and all other "freedom fighters" hadnt been so.. "vocal" in their denouncement of slavery, much that has now been accomplished would not have been. This is NOT to be taken as anything other than a factual statement. I do NOT condone their actions or any action taken against the Empire, but I am also a realist, and can see that they HAVE had an effect. I leave it to you all to bicker...err... <ahem> decide... yes, decide, if it was a good thing or bad thing in the long run. What matters is that the emancipation of the slaves, as I have repeatedly stated and offered rational thought in support of, is and MUST be a slow, gradual process. It will take LIFETIMES to achieve total emancipation. The reasons for this are many, and myriad, and complex, and I do not have time to dedicate this thread to it, but know that this action of the Empress' was well done, and well thought. Long may she reign.
Sophia Cortez Amarr 133rd Imperial Wing	Posted - 2008.12.28 03:39:00 - [56] Originally by: Poreuomai We have never used terrorism to accomplish that. We have used military might to actually free slaves and to fight those who encourage slavery, but the long term answer is for the Amarr to understand the error of their ways. you continually threated the Empire and do raids into our sovereign space to do minor harm to us. just like you continuously insult us. just like that Ambassador Yun did in the CONCORD meeting. Originally by: Poreuomai Would anyone even be talking about the slavery question if the various Minmatar groups did not continue to challenge the widespread Amarr attitude? it's a question for you. since you don't understand it's needed to teach them the faith and save then from eternal damnation.
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.28 13:09:00 - [57] Teach them the faith? After 9 generations? You seriously expect anyone to believe your motivation for keeping slaves is to teach them faith?
Hugh Hefner Caldari Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.12.28 14:48:00 - [58] Whats happening here is obvious, the minnies will finally be integrated fully into the great Amarrian empire, in the end they shall be given the elevated rank of sub-race, like the Ni-Kunni. This is but the third step = A. Enslavement B. Domestication C. Emancipation etc etc While there is still some small rebel elements at the fringes of the empire that oppose this development it can hardly be labeled as more than civil disobedience in the great scope of history. It simply took more time with the minnies since they lacked the mental capabilities of the Ni-Kunni and thus needed some help learning what was best for them. The final cleansing is near! Repent!
Shern Minmatar Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.12.28 14:48:00 - [59] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 25/12/2008 22:58:34 I would like to welcome home all brothers and sisters in the tribes. Empress Jamyl is a wise woman to make this gesture; we should all hope that this leads to a faster path to peace between our nations. Elsebeth Rhiannon Diplomat Electus Matari The Empress has made a truly amazing declaration this Holy Day. I hope that this means more of our people realise what the Empire offers. Perhaps the tribals will now return the people stolen from ammatar worlds by their elder overlords ?
Tellnan Matkiel Gallente The Industrial Consortium	Posted - 2008.12.28 14:52:00 - [60] I wonder how many generations it took for the majority Ni-Kunni to be considered faithful subjects of the Empire, rather than slaves - or for any other of the many races of the Empire? Was there ever a similar decree regarding them? ____________ My views are my own

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