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Graelyn Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.25 14:57:00 - [1] Edited by: Graelyn on 25/12/2008 15:11:12 (Edit: Awaiting full confirmation)
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.12.25 15:11:00 - [2] Edited by: Stitcher on 25/12/2008 15:12:59 ...just what the hell are you talking about, Pilot? EDIT: Oh, good, you've pulled it. - Captain Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.12.25 15:43:00 - [3] What? ----- CEO, Mixed Metaphor Dance Commander
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.12.25 15:48:00 - [4] Smart move.
Vincent Pryce Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.12.25 19:51:00 - [5] The Amarr free slaves and we burn people alive, the world truly has gone mad. _________________________________ King for a day, Batman forever...
3ll3 Gallente Tranquillity Nation	Posted - 2008.12.25 19:54:00 - [6] Edited by: 3ll3 on 25/12/2008 19:54:04 I smell some thing rotten here just you wait there's more to this than meets the eye.
Cpt Constantinus Celestial Janissaries	Posted - 2008.12.25 20:26:00 - [7] She can free as many slaves as she wishes, i will keep mine.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.12.25 20:29:00 - [8] While we are waiting for official confirmation and details, I would like to welcome home all brothers and sisters in the tribes. Empress Jamyl is a wise woman to make this gesture; we should all hope that this leads to a faster path to peace between our nations. Elsebeth Rhiannon Diplomat Electus Matari -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Silver Night Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2008.12.25 23:13:00 - [9] Edited by: Silver Night on 25/12/2008 23:14:10 Any thoughts on what this will do to the demand for first generation slaves? Congratulations to those who have been freed, I think we are all in for an interesting time. -------------- The Clown Man. GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter
Pac SubCom A.W.M	Posted - 2008.12.26 00:04:00 - [10] That a power structure like the Amarr Empire would do something like this out of humane reasons alone is harly believable. They (note I don't say "she", because in an Empire this size, one person never decides alone) they do it for political and economic reasons of state, as always, just like all the other empires. They are taking the wind out of many who oppose the Empire. Looky looky Amarrians aren't so bad after all. A major propaganda victory. Nevertheless, on a personal level this is good news for many. If they see it through as anounced, this means nothing less than the total abolishment of slavery in the long run, since the slaves of the earlier generations will die someday. By definition the remaining slaves are the older ones, and as they become too old to do hard work, they will be worth less and less, and might be set free too. Since times immemorial, slavery has been a central element to the Amarrian faith. Proselytisation by benign slavery was all the rage, and it was given as the fundamental reason behind imperial conquest. Now "God" in His infinite wisdom has decided to turn things on their head, wasn't such a good idea after all it seems. It could even mean that the secular forces in the Empire have won for now and are at work behind the throne of Empress Jamyl. This can't sit well with the religious hard core. Nationalism might play a more important role than religion from now on ("What you give to this Empire, I will give back unto you" - Jamyl I. in her coronation adress). --------------- ∞ TQFE
Seishomaru	Posted - 2008.12.26 00:25:00 - [11] Originally by: Silver Night Edited by: Silver Night on 25/12/2008 23:14:10 Any thoughts on what this will do to the demand for first generation slaves? Congratulations to those who have been freed, I think we are all in for an interesting time. The catch is, this measure solves completely the issue at long run in a smooth way. Eventually all the slaves will be freed by this same very law. 8th generation slaves will have children that will born free. 7th generation will have 8th generation children.. that in about 20 years will have their own free children. In about 200 years there will be only 8th generation slaves.. then finally none at all.
Daraasi Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.26 00:51:00 - [12] Two flaws, 1) an influx of new or non matari slaves would not be subject to this. 2) this is not necesserily a law, it could well be a one off edict, not enough information is available. Per Aspera Ad Astra Ceterum Censeo Jovenem Esse Delendam
Max Dercad Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.26 01:03:00 - [13] Rest in peace, empress J... What? She wasn't assassinated yet? Oh, well, I guess that the democratic decision making process typical for the Empire needs some more time to work.
Pac SubCom A.W.M	Posted - 2008.12.26 01:07:00 - [14] Originally by: Daraasi Two flaws, 1) an influx of new or non matari slaves would not be subject to this. 2) this is not necesserily a law, it could well be a one off edict, not enough information is available. This would be utterly self defeating, to leave back doors like this in it. Won't happen. --------------- ∞ TQFE
Kathryn Dougans Amarr B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm	Posted - 2008.12.26 01:24:00 - [15] Originally by: Daraasi Two flaws, 1) an influx of new or non matari slaves would not be subject to this. 2) this is not necesserily a law, it could well be a one off edict, not enough information is available. Well, now, at the moment, new slaves that are not born to slaves are obtained legally in two ways. Criminals and POWs. There are of course, the illegal slave raiders, who are the enemy of the Empire as much as they are the enemy of everyone else. The Empress's proclamation is therefore a statement to criminals and opponents of the Empire. To criminals, it means that Imperial Law is going to be enforced a lot more strongly than before. The days of law enforcement being at the whims of the local Holders may be ending, as part of a new centralisation of authority. To opponents of the Empire, it says that peace is preferable to war. I.e. do Not provoke the Empire, as your citizens may then become slaves. And, of course, a strengthening of Imperial Law means the illegal raiders are going to be entering a world of pain. The Empress is cleaning out the criminals from the Empire. Don't ask me about the cows.
Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.12.26 01:24:00 - [16] Originally by: Max Dercad Rest in peace, empress J... What? She wasn't assassinated yet? Oh, well, I guess that the democratic decision making process typical for the Empire needs some more time to work. We don't murder our leaders unless they go against the will of God in a clear way, which has only happened once in our history. She has the right to lead us where she thinks and feels we belong, for she is the Empress. Doesn't matter how convulted or peculiar her decisions may be, and how many may not like them... she is the Empress. Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.12.26 02:29:00 - [17] Originally by: Cpt Constantinus She can free as many slaves as she wishes, i will keep mine. You would disobey an edict from the Empress herself?
Vendrin Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2008.12.26 03:44:00 - [18] A masterful stroke. In one fell swoop she has made herself appear to be benevolent and pious, all the while ensuring that slaves who have known only the Empire remain grateful to her. They will either work for the Empire still, or if they manage to return to the Republic, they will undermine it from the inside with their speech of God and Empress. A horrifying, if magnificent tactic. _______________________________
Horatio Nately Caldari 808 Enterprises	Posted - 2008.12.26 05:26:00 - [19] An Amusing if not, dare I say a progressive on the behalf of the empire. --------------------------------------- CEO 808 Enterprises, A Hawaii, USA Playercorp
Wren Minmatar Phoenix Arms	Posted - 2008.12.26 05:38:00 - [20] Edited by: Wren on 26/12/2008 05:41:20 Originally by: Daraasi Two flaws, 1) an influx of new or non matari slaves would not be subject to this. 2) this is not necesserily a law, it could well be a one off edict, not enough information is available. Your first point is well-taken, with respect to non-Matari slaves. However, since the recognition of the reality of a Matari state, the Empire has claimed that it doesn't take new Matari slaves. Of course, it's not easy proving otherwise. Finding individuals that have been surreptitiously taken into slavery has always been akin to finding a stolen needle in a needle factory. With this decree, Holders will need to be aware to which generation their slaves belong. Newly-stolen, first-generation slaves won't be as easy to hide as they were before. Every generation, they'll be even harder to hide. Recent incidents between the Empire and Republic were enough to spark a capsuleer-fought guerilla war. Imagine what Sanmatar Shakor will do if he get proof that the Empire is still stealing the children of Matar. For that matter, imagine what Empress Sarum will do if some unauthorized slavers embarrass her in front of God and everybody. As for your second point, you're not much of an expert on Imperial decrees, are you? You should ask a male Ardishapur to explain how long it takes an Imperial decree to expire. Don't forget to shake his hand afterward. -----------------------------------
Vaden Khale Amarr the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2008.12.26 07:28:00 - [21] One good thing about being an 'outlaw' is that I don't have to bother myself with self-aggrandizing political schemes such as this. My slaves will stay under my lash until they are no longer fit for service, my decision, and mine alone, Empress.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.12.26 08:34:00 - [22] So once, a long time ago, I posed a hypothetical question to the members of PIE Inc., about what they'd do if, by some miracle, their new Emperor (or Empress, for that matter), when they were crowned, decreed that they release their slaves. Would they free them, or would they cling to them? They quite blankly and rudely refused to answer me, stating that such a decree was utterly unthinkable and impossible. Not so funny now is it, you bastards? What are you going to do now? ----- CEO, Mixed Metaphor Dance Commander
Vendrin Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2008.12.26 08:38:00 - [23] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Not so funny now is it, you bastards? What are you going to do now? Hopefully grab a few obnoxious Gallente slaves. _______________________________
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.12.26 08:49:00 - [24] I honestly doubt it. The Empire has enough on its hands without further offending the Federation. And I've seen a lot of threats by PIE to make capsuleers their slaves (myself included, although both Rodj Blake and Archbishop seem to have a somewhat... worrying obsession with Evanda Char in this regard) but none of them have ever been carried out. I feel that this is not a matter of lacking honest intent, however, so they must either be inept, or incapable in some other fashion. ----- CEO, Mixed Metaphor Dance Commander
Seishomaru	Posted - 2008.12.26 09:26:00 - [25] The interesting part is empress found a way to do it without dismantling their empire. By starting the emancipation only on people so deeply rooted in empire she may be sure a large quantity of the minmatar will choose to stay in empire as citizens.If the bennefits presented to the emancipated are good enough she will easily keep the ones that cannot be immediately substituted by mindless drone machines. She also sweeps aways all the high group support to any actions from the elders like the summer invasion that proved to be a huge toll to the empire economy , prestige and military. This might very weel be another step on Jamyl route to become the greatest amarr ruler of all times. Returning from the dead - a great and solid start Epically saving the almost doomed imperial fleet by herself- A great "I am here! And I am the ONE!" demonstration Starting the end of the single issue that prevented amarr empire to be totally accepted among the other empires - the stadist move to be remebered by billions! What is next? Askign for apologies to the jovians?
Polinus Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.12.26 09:27:00 - [26] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris I honestly doubt it. The Empire has enough on its hands without further offending the Federation. And I've seen a lot of threats by PIE to make capsuleers their slaves (myself included, although both Rodj Blake and Archbishop seem to have a somewhat... worrying obsession with Evanda Char in this regard) but none of them have ever been carried out. I feel that this is not a matter of lacking honest intent, however, so they must either be inept, or incapable in some other fashion. also because doing so in concord regulated space, EVEN in sarum prime orbit, would result in a swift WTFPOWNAGE!
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.12.26 09:29:00 - [27] Especially if they tried it with Evanda. Have you ever seen that girl KICK? ----- CEO, Mixed Metaphor Dance Commander
Aldrith Shutaq Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.12.26 10:54:00 - [28] I honestly can't believe it. The Empire makes a progressive step and all anyone can do is splutter incoherently and mumble things about this being some maliciously planned political move. Evidently the scholars, artisans and craftsmen that were freed are actually brainwashed soldiers being sent off to undermine the Republic. It's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. When I first heard this news I was elated. I thought that when the Empress took the throne we would be living in a military state, as the Sarums are known for their serious take on warfare. And yet today I found myself planetside on Oris, surrounded by the joyful, hopeful faces of new citizens of the Empire, celebrating the announcment through the night. And I celebrated with them. At long last the Empire has taken a step to give what its endentured people deserve: a chance to live along side all of the free peoples of the Empire as equals, striving to make it a better place for everyone. And yet somehow this is a bad thing, according the oh-so pleasantly cynical populace of the IGS. This is disgraceful. Where praise and encouragment is deserved the best you can muster is Vendin's "Brilliant, horrifying political move" and Andreus Ixiris' smug "What now, you bastards". Seems that you in the other Empires are either more afraid of this change than we are, or are saddened by the prospect that the Empire isn't the evil monolith you make it out to be, all to better justify the murder of my people. If you want to scoff at shameless political antics, why don't you gawk at the execution of Eturrer and worry about the Federation becoming a writhing mob of anti-Caldari hatred? The scene was right out of your idea of an Amarrian witch-burning. I understand if you do not lavish wonderous complements upon the Empire for this, I know this is a small step in a grand picture, and that it does not make up for the Empire's past mistakes. It probably does have cold, calculated political reasons behind it as well, but that does not change the fact that several hundred million educated people are to be freed, by the good grace of our Empress Sarum and Chancelor Kor-Azor. Of course, this was done more for the good of the Empire than to appease the other Empires, so I suppose it's no loss to us if you cannot see the good being done here. I am rather curious as to the lack of comment from my fellow Amarrians on the subject. I do pray that Her Majesty's decree hasn't come as too much of a shock to them. And as to Cpt Constantinus tactless assertation that he will keep any of his slaves legally freed by the decree, pay no heed to it. If he lives in Empire borders his defiance will be met with justice.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.12.26 10:57:00 - [29] I would have to agree with those who say that this is not law; it could as well be one time "amnesty" that does not affect new-born 9th-generation slaves from this day on. I am sure the Empress will inform us on this when she has decided which option best serves her agenda. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Kathryn Dougans Amarr B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm	Posted - 2008.12.26 11:29:00 - [30] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon I would have to agree with those who say that this is not law; it could as well be one time "amnesty" that does not affect new-born 9th-generation slaves from this day on. I believe it to be ongoing. It seems pretty clear to me. Consider the Empress's words. ôOut there on the event horizon, a new age races toward us, and it is approaching fast. The Lord in his infinite grace has instructed me that the chains that fetter us will no longer be necessary in this new age of light and reason, neither the chains of hatred that restrain our minds nor the chains of indenture that restrain those less fortunate than ourselves.ö The Lord has told the Empress of the coming of a new age for the Empire. An age without slavery and mindless hatred of the non-Amarrians. And this age is coming, fast. Of course, "fast" to us means timescales of only a few hundred years or less, but nevertheless, this new age will soon be upon us. So it is time to change, which we shall do, in our normal dignified pace. Leave sudden shifts to the Federation. In this new age, there will be no slaves. Every inhabitant shall be a freeman, with their social rank not determined by blood, but by deeds. In three or four thousand years, I would not be surprised to see a Minmitar Holder, for example. And a most noble and pious person they will be. Don't ask me about the cows.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.12.26 11:31:00 - [31] You paint a pretty picture for the future of the Empire, Kathryn Dougans. I wish I had your trust. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Eran Mintor Valklear Guard	Posted - 2008.12.26 12:01:00 - [32] Edited by: Eran Mintor on 26/12/2008 12:02:58 Originally by: Aldrith Shatuq At long last the Empire has taken a step to give what its endentured people deserve: a chance to live along side all of the free peoples of the Empire as equals, striving to make it a better place for everyone. And yet somehow this is a bad thing, according the oh-so pleasantly cynical populace of the IGS. The way they were able to grant this "chance to live as equals" is only after millenia of taking that choice away. Complete emancipation has been long awaited by people who suffer and worry about being kidnapped in the night to become slaves for the rest of their lives. Because this is not complete emancipation, you cannot blame us for being less than estatic. I will settle for nothing less than the ABOLISHMENT of slavery in all 4 recognized nations. With that said, atleast you have made small progress. It however, is not enough. Some have said that "it's never enough". If you truely are devout men & women of God, then that statement couldn't be more true. There is no such thing as "enough", especially when refering to serving Him. Settling for what you have and what you've done is really surrender. If you wish to be the generation of Amarrians who will be highly revered in the eyes of God, then take leaps, not steps.
Karath Piki	Posted - 2008.12.26 12:51:00 - [33] I am not understanding what many seem to think this is about. Slavery exists for several reasons. First of all, those whose families have ignored God's will must serve penance for their sins. Secondly, they must remain slaves for as long as it takes them to adopt the True Faith as their own, discarding their own heathen or pagan ways. All this does is correct an imbalance in the Empire, ensuring those who are properly assimilated into the Faith and have paid their penance to God are recognized as such. The worst reasons in the world to own slaves include economic (it is normally horribly inefficient) and for purposes of feeding one's own ego-- one's fellow man is not there to work on your behalf, but on God's. Everything in the Empire happens for a reason. We were halted by the Jovians and the creation of CONCORD because we somehow were failing to uphold our vows and our faith properly. This edict corrects the one issue I had with slavery and tells me that we are moving beyond a need for CONCORD interference as a faithful people.
Valerius Lex Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.12.26 13:43:00 - [34] If I may, I would like to point out a few points that heretofore appear to have been neglected, namely concerns of economy and stability within the Empire as concerning any changes to its institution of slavery. Firstly, we need to consider the slaves themselves, and what they are to do upon their theoretical emancipation. These are, by and large, individuals that have been born and bred in the Empire. Their lives have been highly structured and regimented. They are not accustomed to self-determination, and their reactions to the sudden revolution of their life can easily be far from romantic. In all cases, the very practical reality of property and resources is paramount. Can/will they have any legal entitlement to property they utilized during their state of bondage? Where will they sleep? What clothes will they own? How will the obtain their first meal as free men and women? The answers to these queries are not yet evident for even the recently freed 9th generation, but were the scenario to be expanded to the entire slave population I have no doubt that the material problems associated would not be a mere linear increase. For those that do not immediately seek the refuge of a semblance of their former lives there are a great number of obstacles to be determined, and very few resources available to them. Firstly, there will be those who will decide against leaving the familiarity of the Empire for parts unknown, but will nonetheless attempt to seek a new form of employment. Yet, they may be faced with such basic challenges as a lack of formal training in fields of employment that they wish to pursue, a limited or even non-existent amount of resources to aid them while they attempt to find a suitable job, and potentially stiff competition from other former slaves for the same economical opportunities. Secondly, there are those that will seek the promise of a better life in the Republic, the Federation, or possibly even the State (hard to imagine as that is). Even if they are able to temporarily obtain basic necessities for themselves, securing off-world transport is even more daunting. Such people likely have only the vaguest notion of where to go, and a number no idea how to properly get there. While I have no doubt that a great number of honest and charitable organizations will make efforts similar to those that Electus Matari is presently offering, the efforts involved to effect such a program over the whole of Empire space are intimidating, to say the least. And for every honorable offer of transport out of Amarr space, there will be a dozen swindlers promising free or affordable passage that may lead the naive to a mid-space robbery, murder, or even delivery to new Blood Raider masters. And these are simply the hurdles associated with leaving the Amarr Empire. Assuming that they make it safely, one way or another, to a foreign spaceport, many of them will find themselves in a completely alien setting. At best they will be the subject of pity, looked upon as poor refugees. At worst they will be the subjects of exploitation by unsavory elements with no compunction against scamming or preying upon the unwary. But most likely they will be treated with contempt. The Federation will groan in protest as new immigrants contest with established populations for jobs. The State will be characteristically unforgiving to those that show they cannot perform satisfactorily and act within the expected behavior of a corporate citizen. Even the Republic Matari will conflict with their Amarrian-raised kinsmen when attempts to "reeducate" their freed brethren are initially rebuffed out of psychological reflex.
Valerius Lex Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.12.26 13:44:00 - [35] All this being said, there is one aspect of society that universally stands to benefit: the criminal underworld. All along the line it will be ready to catch those who are falling through the cracks as they try to reform their lives but find the circumstances insurmountable. To these the criminal elements will (metaphorically) open its arms wide and welcoming, eternally ready to swell its own ranks and to create a different form of enslavement for those who cannot make it on their own. To put it bluntly, the immediate and total emancipation of every slave within the borders of Amarr space, Matari or otherwise, is an economic and logistical nightmare. Such an event is only feasible is storybook scenarios and Matari paramilitary propaganda. I sincerely doubt that anyone advocating such action has taken the time to consider the long-standing consequences associated. To be honest however, much of the above are worst case scenarios. I am in no way trying to implicate that every freed slave leaving the Empire will actually be kidnapped by Blood Raiders or spirited away to Sansha's Nation for lobotomization. However, thy will happen, and the more slaves being freed, the greater the proportion that will be victimized. But by freeing a section of the slave population, we have been given the opportunity to a more controlled situation where we may work harder to prevent tragedies befalling the newly emancipated, as well as allowing us to more accurately observe the results so that in the possible event of a similar proclamation we will be even better able to aid them in the transition. --------- Now a more personal note- As to the politics of the Empress' declaration, I am somewhat torn. While my own liberal, borderline-"heretic" sensibilities were overjoyed that the seemingly impossible had happened, the cynic in me has been wondering if the Empress' actions are more self-serving. It is true that I doubt that a majority of the emancipated will actually leave, though more out of practical reasons than any purported brainwashing. Ask any family's bread winner who hates their job why they still work there. The reality is that normal human conditioning is not conducive to risking our own present security to unknown circumstances, much less risking one's family. Many would say that the Empire is simply phasing out slavery for a more Caldari-esque economic model. Yet regardless, I believe it is a step in the right direction. Moreover it appears to be a rational, and peaceful step, something that I find to be a pleasant surprise among so much of the grim recent history in the cluster. Perhaps Empress Jamyl will prove to be a better souvereign than my initially dim estimation had predicted....
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.12.26 14:55:00 - [36] Those who are foes of the Empire and its essential nature, yet welcome this act are fools. Living as a slave consists of more than wearing chains, shrinking from the whip and slavering animals, or being in thrall to vile drugs. The Empire under Jamyl is changing in surface appearance and to some extent in structure, to be sure, but it remains a cult of power above all else. Power of the few over the many. Power in the name of a dead god and his 'chosen'. Power as an object of worship in and of itself. Let not your guard slip. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Veron Daerth Amarr Blood Meridian	Posted - 2008.12.26 15:34:00 - [37] Indeed, this is most welcome news. I have just returned from a lengthy trip planetside to discover this bit of news, myself. I completely agree with Pilot Lex. As I have been saying for quite some time now, freeing all the slaves is lunacy, and would result in their abuse and eventual suffering in far greater numbers and ways than they could possibly currently suffer. Pilot Mintor, you have often said that you and those like you would only accept full emancipation. I suggest to you sir, that you are living in a fairy tale and should be happy with what you get, such as the emancipation of several hundred million slaves within the Empire. True, the vast majority of them will never leave, having lives, jobs, families, and homes here, as well as nine generations of history and ancestors here, but they will be free, and full citizens of the Empire, something I have long wished to happen and something I have espoused quite often. Be joyous sir, for their sakes if no other. I will take this time also to announce the emancipation of all the slaves currently in my service of whatever age and gender and their full induction into my House. I will be transmitting a decree addressing this to my Holdings as soon as I have finished here, and have appended a copy of it below. I urge all Holders to take this decree to heart and truly consider what it means. Be well, Pilots. <Copy appended> From this day forth, and so long as I Hold them, by my oath as Lord and Holder of the Amarr Empire, before God and Men and upon my eternal honor, I , Lord Veron Daerth, do hereby order and decree the emancipation of all slaves of the ninth generation and higher in my domains in accordance with the Imperial Decree given to us by Her Imperial Majesty, Empress Jamyl I. Further, and in the spirit of furthering Her Holy intent, and in reward of faithful service to me and my House, I also request and require the emancipation of all slaves of whatever age and gender whose names appear upon the lists that follow this decree. This action to be carried out no later than the second day of the next month, by my order and my hand, and in accordance with my will and that of the Empress herself. Long live the Empress, Long live the Empire. <transmission ends>
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.12.26 16:02:00 - [38] Originally by: Silver Night Edited by: Silver Night on 25/12/2008 23:14:10 Any thoughts on what this will do to the demand for first generation slaves? Congratulations to those who have been freed, I think we are all in for an interesting time. 9th generation and UP. So all slaves 9 generations back and any after that period of time are now free. The old generation slaves are the only ones still stuck...
Veron Daerth Amarr Blood Meridian	Posted - 2008.12.26 16:19:00 - [39] Pilot Maynard, the emancipation is for ninth generation and up, as in tenth, eleventh, and twelfth generation slaves, basically, the further back your ancestors were slaves, the better your chances of getting freed. If your a slave and your Great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather was a slave, then you are free. Any more "greats" in there also apply to you, any less, and you have to rely on your Holders whims to set you free. As has been mentioned, its a momentous occasion, and not just for those slaves of Matari descent, but those of other ancestry as well. I do not believe that such a mass emancipation has ever taken place in the Empire, not in recent memory at any rate. And to have their efforts recognized by the Empress Herself, incredible. Truly, they have been honored greatly this day.
Polinus Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.12.26 17:35:00 - [40] Originally by: Megan Maynard Originally by: Silver Night Edited by: Silver Night on 25/12/2008 23:14:10 Any thoughts on what this will do to the demand for first generation slaves? Congratulations to those who have been freed, I think we are all in for an interesting time. 9th generation and UP. So all slaves 9 generations back and any after that period of time are now free. The old generation slaves are the only ones still stuck... generations are counted in the OTHER direction. A first generation slave is a slave that was free and has been captured. A second generation slave is the son of the first generation slave.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.26 19:48:00 - [41] Here is where the benefit of having treated slaves humanely is repaid. Yesterday I issued an announcement to my slaves authorizing the immediate release of all 9th generation or older slaves as well as all slaves specialized in art and religion. While these are "slaves" in name they realize the gifts given them by the Amarr empire and it's way of life. I've already heard back that many freed individuals wish to stay in my employ and continue to serve the empire. While some slaves do wish to go to Matari space it is a small percentage and I am not concerned. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL
Saadok Ahoah Amarr Kor-Azor League	Posted - 2008.12.26 20:24:00 - [42] Originally by: Eran Mintor The way they were able to grant this "chance to live as equals" is only after millenia of taking that choice away. Let yourself be assured, we don't try to breed our stock at the age of a hundred years. The shortest time would thus be on the lines of mere 140 years of slavery, assuming the second generation were bred right after the capture of the first, though this would mean that the ninth generation has just born. I would place a realistic estimate on 200 - 250 years of gradual enlightment on the average. Need I say that there are people in Amarr who are older than that? Naturally there might be lines that can be traced back to the initial raids on Pator, but not that many. Well-learned lines of slaves will have raised from their position a long time ago into positions more fitting of civilized folk, of course. It is noteworthy how many, perhaps even the most Ni-Kunni are now free subjects of the Empire, while they were originally brought to our gentle care roughly at the same time as the savages from Pator.
Sophie Starsparrow	Posted - 2008.12.26 21:31:00 - [43] It is amazing to me that, every time the Empress speaks, confusion follows, and it is days before people begin to understand the full impact. I am heartened that so many of my people are happy that some slaves are being 'emancipated' and that any new slaves taken will only be held for nine generations. It especially warms my heart that, the 'fair' slave-holders (there must be one or two besides Lord Daerth) will not lose many of their slaves (who know no other life), but that the most vicious and cruel ones will, meaning newer slaves will end up with them in greater numbers. This, 'emancipation' seems like little more than a 'make work' program for slavers.
zoolkhan Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.26 21:39:00 - [44] Originally by: Cpt Constantinus She can free as many slaves as she wishes, i will keep mine. for a little while recruiting -forum
Pol Macsliebh Minmatar Ek'u Tan	Posted - 2008.12.26 22:44:00 - [45] Edited by: Pol Macsliebh on 26/12/2008 22:45:33 I don't Believe Jamyl is being as Transparent as people think. I will wait for her follow up "announcement" when she reveals her true goals. But I don't believe they will benefit any slaves under her control, So until then killing Amarr slavers and any who support slavery is the only real response.
Garion Avarr Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.	Posted - 2008.12.26 23:37:00 - [46] Originally by: Eran Mintor If you wish to be the generation of Amarrians who will be highly revered in the eyes of God, then take leaps, not steps. Amarrians do not leap.
Cpt Constantinus Celestial Janissaries	Posted - 2008.12.27 10:28:00 - [47] Originally by: zoolkhan Originally by: Cpt Constantinus She can free as many slaves as she wishes, i will keep mine. for a little while As long as Lord Lonewolf permits it, terrorist.
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.27 11:34:00 - [48] Originally by: Kathryn Dougans The Lord has told the Empress of the coming of a new age for the Empire. An age without slavery and mindless hatred of the non-Amarrians. Many Amarr had already reached that conclusion long ago - I hope many more will do so. *Let My People Go*
Sophia Cortez Amarr 133rd Imperial Wing	Posted - 2008.12.27 13:33:00 - [49] Originally by: Poreuomai Originally by: Kathryn Dougans The Lord has told the Empress of the coming of a new age for the Empire. An age without slavery and mindless hatred of the non-Amarrians. Many Amarr had already reached that conclusion long ago - I hope many more will do so. to bad you try to use terrorism to accomplish the same thing. but it NEVER was the awnser. you only brought the Emress's wrath over you. and don't even think that you had ANYTHING to do with the release of the slaves. it was the Empress who did that. your terrorism only served to anger the Lord and the Empress. i'd advise you to stop it while you still have a so called 'republic' to go back to!
Redbad Minmatar Mean Corp Mean Coalition	Posted - 2008.12.27 15:59:00 - [50] Edited by: Redbad on 27/12/2008 16:00:03
Redbad Minmatar Mean Corp Mean Coalition	Posted - 2008.12.27 16:03:00 - [51] Think; with this measure does she: a. Free slaves and is a nice lass? or b. Creates scarcity in cheap/free labour within her empire and thus stimulates the regular Amarrian in aquiring new, better and perhaps "fresh from the Republic" Slaves? ...I bet it's not a.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.12.27 16:30:00 - [52] Originally by: Silver Night Edited by: Silver Night on 25/12/2008 23:14:10 Any thoughts on what this will do to the demand for first generation slaves? Congratulations to those who have been freed, I think we are all in for an interesting time. Release them, wait a generation, then reclaim their children. I think the term for it is..."recycling". Besides, she's releasing people who've been enslaved so long, they have no memory of freedom. After ten generations of servitude, most of the directly passed down stories are forgotten. She's turning loose into the world a mass of people with no knowledge of anything but the Amarrian way of life now enhanced with the memory of a supremely enlightened gesture. I think there's quite a bit more going on here than meets the eye. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.27 19:05:00 - [53] Originally by: Sophia Cortez Originally by: Poreuomai Originally by: Kathryn Dougans The Lord has told the Empress of the coming of a new age for the Empire. An age without slavery and mindless hatred of the non-Amarrians. Many Amarr had already reached that conclusion long ago - I hope many more will do so. to bad you try to use terrorism to accomplish the same thing. We have never used terrorism to accomplish that. We have used military might to actually free slaves and to fight those who encourage slavery, but the long term answer is for the Amarr to understand the error of their ways. Originally by: Sophia Cortez but it NEVER was the awnser. you only brought the Emress's wrath over you. and don't even think that you had ANYTHING to do with the release of the slaves. it was the Empress who did that. your terrorism only served to anger the Lord and the Empress. i'd advise you to stop it while you still have a so called 'republic' to go back to! Would anyone even be talking about the slavery question if the various Minmatar groups did not continue to challenge the widespread Amarr attitude? *Let My People Go*
Polinus Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.12.27 20:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Janu Hull Originally by: Silver Night Edited by: Silver Night on 25/12/2008 23:14:10 Any thoughts on what this will do to the demand for first generation slaves? Congratulations to those who have been freed, I think we are all in for an interesting time. Release them, wait a generation, then reclaim their children. I think the term for it is..."recycling". Besides, she's releasing people who've been enslaved so long, they have no memory of freedom. After ten generations of servitude, most of the directly passed down stories are forgotten. She's turning loose into the world a mass of people with no knowledge of anything but the Amarrian way of life now enhanced with the memory of a supremely enlightened gesture. I think there's quite a bit more going on here than meets the eye. during history of mankind, here in new evdn and in the old galaxy, dozens of times slavery arose in about every civilization. And all the times it was successfully terminated was trough small steps, starting by the children of slaves being born free. Worked in past. Will work again.
Veron Daerth Amarr Blood Meridian	Posted - 2008.12.28 00:33:00 - [55] While I know not where Pilot Polinus gets his information as to the condition of slavery in the "old galaxy", I can assure you all that his words here do ring true. Yes, if the Ushra'Khan and Electus Matari and all other "freedom fighters" hadnt been so.. "vocal" in their denouncement of slavery, much that has now been accomplished would not have been. This is NOT to be taken as anything other than a factual statement. I do NOT condone their actions or any action taken against the Empire, but I am also a realist, and can see that they HAVE had an effect. I leave it to you all to bicker...err... <ahem> decide... yes, decide, if it was a good thing or bad thing in the long run. What matters is that the emancipation of the slaves, as I have repeatedly stated and offered rational thought in support of, is and MUST be a slow, gradual process. It will take LIFETIMES to achieve total emancipation. The reasons for this are many, and myriad, and complex, and I do not have time to dedicate this thread to it, but know that this action of the Empress' was well done, and well thought. Long may she reign.
Sophia Cortez Amarr 133rd Imperial Wing	Posted - 2008.12.28 03:39:00 - [56] Originally by: Poreuomai We have never used terrorism to accomplish that. We have used military might to actually free slaves and to fight those who encourage slavery, but the long term answer is for the Amarr to understand the error of their ways. you continually threated the Empire and do raids into our sovereign space to do minor harm to us. just like you continuously insult us. just like that Ambassador Yun did in the CONCORD meeting. Originally by: Poreuomai Would anyone even be talking about the slavery question if the various Minmatar groups did not continue to challenge the widespread Amarr attitude? it's a question for you. since you don't understand it's needed to teach them the faith and save then from eternal damnation.
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.28 13:09:00 - [57] Teach them the faith? After 9 generations? You seriously expect anyone to believe your motivation for keeping slaves is to teach them faith?
Hugh Hefner Caldari Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.12.28 14:48:00 - [58] Whats happening here is obvious, the minnies will finally be integrated fully into the great Amarrian empire, in the end they shall be given the elevated rank of sub-race, like the Ni-Kunni. This is but the third step = A. Enslavement B. Domestication C. Emancipation etc etc While there is still some small rebel elements at the fringes of the empire that oppose this development it can hardly be labeled as more than civil disobedience in the great scope of history. It simply took more time with the minnies since they lacked the mental capabilities of the Ni-Kunni and thus needed some help learning what was best for them. The final cleansing is near! Repent!
Shern Minmatar Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.12.28 14:48:00 - [59] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 25/12/2008 22:58:34 I would like to welcome home all brothers and sisters in the tribes. Empress Jamyl is a wise woman to make this gesture; we should all hope that this leads to a faster path to peace between our nations. Elsebeth Rhiannon Diplomat Electus Matari The Empress has made a truly amazing declaration this Holy Day. I hope that this means more of our people realise what the Empire offers. Perhaps the tribals will now return the people stolen from ammatar worlds by their elder overlords ?
Tellnan Matkiel Gallente The Industrial Consortium	Posted - 2008.12.28 14:52:00 - [60] I wonder how many generations it took for the majority Ni-Kunni to be considered faithful subjects of the Empire, rather than slaves - or for any other of the many races of the Empire? Was there ever a similar decree regarding them? ____________ My views are my own
Mebrithiel Ju'wien Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.12.28 18:00:00 - [61] Jamyl is a lovely girl. Even before she died, came back to life and was elected empress, I liked the girl. I'm sure she means best by this for everyone. Her words sound honest and hopeful. However, I'll be keeping most of my slaves - especially the Amarrian percent. I have... things I need them for.
Jake Oman Minmatar Star Frontiers FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.12.29 13:04:00 - [62] Well I can say that it's about time. They should have outgrown slavery before discovering interstellar travel. Better late than never I guess.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.12.29 13:19:00 - [63] Originally by: Shern I hope that this means more of our people realise what the Empire offers. Perhaps the tribals will now return the people stolen from ammatar worlds by their elder overlords ? Only if they want to return - and as I see it, many of those people came with the Elders willingly, and thus can't be considered "stolen". Remember that elements of the Mandate itself were encouraging their people to rise up against the Amarrians. ----- CEO, Mixed Metaphor Dance Commander

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