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Graelyn Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.25 14:57:00 - [1] Edited by: Graelyn on 25/12/2008 15:11:12 (Edit: Awaiting full confirmation)
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.12.25 15:11:00 - [2] Edited by: Stitcher on 25/12/2008 15:12:59 ...just what the hell are you talking about, Pilot? EDIT: Oh, good, you've pulled it. - Captain Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.12.25 15:43:00 - [3] What? ----- CEO, Mixed Metaphor Dance Commander
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.12.25 15:48:00 - [4] Smart move.
Vincent Pryce Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.12.25 19:51:00 - [5] The Amarr free slaves and we burn people alive, the world truly has gone mad. _________________________________ King for a day, Batman forever...
3ll3 Gallente Tranquillity Nation	Posted - 2008.12.25 19:54:00 - [6] Edited by: 3ll3 on 25/12/2008 19:54:04 I smell some thing rotten here just you wait there's more to this than meets the eye.
Cpt Constantinus Celestial Janissaries	Posted - 2008.12.25 20:26:00 - [7] She can free as many slaves as she wishes, i will keep mine.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.12.25 20:29:00 - [8] While we are waiting for official confirmation and details, I would like to welcome home all brothers and sisters in the tribes. Empress Jamyl is a wise woman to make this gesture; we should all hope that this leads to a faster path to peace between our nations. Elsebeth Rhiannon Diplomat Electus Matari -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Silver Night Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2008.12.25 23:13:00 - [9] Edited by: Silver Night on 25/12/2008 23:14:10 Any thoughts on what this will do to the demand for first generation slaves? Congratulations to those who have been freed, I think we are all in for an interesting time. -------------- The Clown Man. GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter
Pac SubCom A.W.M	Posted - 2008.12.26 00:04:00 - [10] That a power structure like the Amarr Empire would do something like this out of humane reasons alone is harly believable. They (note I don't say "she", because in an Empire this size, one person never decides alone) they do it for political and economic reasons of state, as always, just like all the other empires. They are taking the wind out of many who oppose the Empire. Looky looky Amarrians aren't so bad after all. A major propaganda victory. Nevertheless, on a personal level this is good news for many. If they see it through as anounced, this means nothing less than the total abolishment of slavery in the long run, since the slaves of the earlier generations will die someday. By definition the remaining slaves are the older ones, and as they become too old to do hard work, they will be worth less and less, and might be set free too. Since times immemorial, slavery has been a central element to the Amarrian faith. Proselytisation by benign slavery was all the rage, and it was given as the fundamental reason behind imperial conquest. Now "God" in His infinite wisdom has decided to turn things on their head, wasn't such a good idea after all it seems. It could even mean that the secular forces in the Empire have won for now and are at work behind the throne of Empress Jamyl. This can't sit well with the religious hard core. Nationalism might play a more important role than religion from now on ("What you give to this Empire, I will give back unto you" - Jamyl I. in her coronation adress). --------------- ∞ TQFE
Seishomaru	Posted - 2008.12.26 00:25:00 - [11] Originally by: Silver Night Edited by: Silver Night on 25/12/2008 23:14:10 Any thoughts on what this will do to the demand for first generation slaves? Congratulations to those who have been freed, I think we are all in for an interesting time. The catch is, this measure solves completely the issue at long run in a smooth way. Eventually all the slaves will be freed by this same very law. 8th generation slaves will have children that will born free. 7th generation will have 8th generation children.. that in about 20 years will have their own free children. In about 200 years there will be only 8th generation slaves.. then finally none at all.
Daraasi Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.26 00:51:00 - [12] Two flaws, 1) an influx of new or non matari slaves would not be subject to this. 2) this is not necesserily a law, it could well be a one off edict, not enough information is available. Per Aspera Ad Astra Ceterum Censeo Jovenem Esse Delendam
Max Dercad Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.26 01:03:00 - [13] Rest in peace, empress J... What? She wasn't assassinated yet? Oh, well, I guess that the democratic decision making process typical for the Empire needs some more time to work.
Pac SubCom A.W.M	Posted - 2008.12.26 01:07:00 - [14] Originally by: Daraasi Two flaws, 1) an influx of new or non matari slaves would not be subject to this. 2) this is not necesserily a law, it could well be a one off edict, not enough information is available. This would be utterly self defeating, to leave back doors like this in it. Won't happen. --------------- ∞ TQFE
Kathryn Dougans Amarr B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm	Posted - 2008.12.26 01:24:00 - [15] Originally by: Daraasi Two flaws, 1) an influx of new or non matari slaves would not be subject to this. 2) this is not necesserily a law, it could well be a one off edict, not enough information is available. Well, now, at the moment, new slaves that are not born to slaves are obtained legally in two ways. Criminals and POWs. There are of course, the illegal slave raiders, who are the enemy of the Empire as much as they are the enemy of everyone else. The Empress's proclamation is therefore a statement to criminals and opponents of the Empire. To criminals, it means that Imperial Law is going to be enforced a lot more strongly than before. The days of law enforcement being at the whims of the local Holders may be ending, as part of a new centralisation of authority. To opponents of the Empire, it says that peace is preferable to war. I.e. do Not provoke the Empire, as your citizens may then become slaves. And, of course, a strengthening of Imperial Law means the illegal raiders are going to be entering a world of pain. The Empress is cleaning out the criminals from the Empire. Don't ask me about the cows.
Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.12.26 01:24:00 - [16] Originally by: Max Dercad Rest in peace, empress J... What? She wasn't assassinated yet? Oh, well, I guess that the democratic decision making process typical for the Empire needs some more time to work. We don't murder our leaders unless they go against the will of God in a clear way, which has only happened once in our history. She has the right to lead us where she thinks and feels we belong, for she is the Empress. Doesn't matter how convulted or peculiar her decisions may be, and how many may not like them... she is the Empress. Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.12.26 02:29:00 - [17] Originally by: Cpt Constantinus She can free as many slaves as she wishes, i will keep mine. You would disobey an edict from the Empress herself?
Vendrin Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2008.12.26 03:44:00 - [18] A masterful stroke. In one fell swoop she has made herself appear to be benevolent and pious, all the while ensuring that slaves who have known only the Empire remain grateful to her. They will either work for the Empire still, or if they manage to return to the Republic, they will undermine it from the inside with their speech of God and Empress. A horrifying, if magnificent tactic. _______________________________
Horatio Nately Caldari 808 Enterprises	Posted - 2008.12.26 05:26:00 - [19] An Amusing if not, dare I say a progressive on the behalf of the empire. --------------------------------------- CEO 808 Enterprises, A Hawaii, USA Playercorp
Wren Minmatar Phoenix Arms	Posted - 2008.12.26 05:38:00 - [20] Edited by: Wren on 26/12/2008 05:41:20 Originally by: Daraasi Two flaws, 1) an influx of new or non matari slaves would not be subject to this. 2) this is not necesserily a law, it could well be a one off edict, not enough information is available. Your first point is well-taken, with respect to non-Matari slaves. However, since the recognition of the reality of a Matari state, the Empire has claimed that it doesn't take new Matari slaves. Of course, it's not easy proving otherwise. Finding individuals that have been surreptitiously taken into slavery has always been akin to finding a stolen needle in a needle factory. With this decree, Holders will need to be aware to which generation their slaves belong. Newly-stolen, first-generation slaves won't be as easy to hide as they were before. Every generation, they'll be even harder to hide. Recent incidents between the Empire and Republic were enough to spark a capsuleer-fought guerilla war. Imagine what Sanmatar Shakor will do if he get proof that the Empire is still stealing the children of Matar. For that matter, imagine what Empress Sarum will do if some unauthorized slavers embarrass her in front of God and everybody. As for your second point, you're not much of an expert on Imperial decrees, are you? You should ask a male Ardishapur to explain how long it takes an Imperial decree to expire. Don't forget to shake his hand afterward. -----------------------------------
Vaden Khale Amarr the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2008.12.26 07:28:00 - [21] One good thing about being an 'outlaw' is that I don't have to bother myself with self-aggrandizing political schemes such as this. My slaves will stay under my lash until they are no longer fit for service, my decision, and mine alone, Empress.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.12.26 08:34:00 - [22] So once, a long time ago, I posed a hypothetical question to the members of PIE Inc., about what they'd do if, by some miracle, their new Emperor (or Empress, for that matter), when they were crowned, decreed that they release their slaves. Would they free them, or would they cling to them? They quite blankly and rudely refused to answer me, stating that such a decree was utterly unthinkable and impossible. Not so funny now is it, you bastards? What are you going to do now? ----- CEO, Mixed Metaphor Dance Commander
Vendrin Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2008.12.26 08:38:00 - [23] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Not so funny now is it, you bastards? What are you going to do now? Hopefully grab a few obnoxious Gallente slaves. _______________________________
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.12.26 08:49:00 - [24] I honestly doubt it. The Empire has enough on its hands without further offending the Federation. And I've seen a lot of threats by PIE to make capsuleers their slaves (myself included, although both Rodj Blake and Archbishop seem to have a somewhat... worrying obsession with Evanda Char in this regard) but none of them have ever been carried out. I feel that this is not a matter of lacking honest intent, however, so they must either be inept, or incapable in some other fashion. ----- CEO, Mixed Metaphor Dance Commander
Seishomaru	Posted - 2008.12.26 09:26:00 - [25] The interesting part is empress found a way to do it without dismantling their empire. By starting the emancipation only on people so deeply rooted in empire she may be sure a large quantity of the minmatar will choose to stay in empire as citizens.If the bennefits presented to the emancipated are good enough she will easily keep the ones that cannot be immediately substituted by mindless drone machines. She also sweeps aways all the high group support to any actions from the elders like the summer invasion that proved to be a huge toll to the empire economy , prestige and military. This might very weel be another step on Jamyl route to become the greatest amarr ruler of all times. Returning from the dead - a great and solid start Epically saving the almost doomed imperial fleet by herself- A great "I am here! And I am the ONE!" demonstration Starting the end of the single issue that prevented amarr empire to be totally accepted among the other empires - the stadist move to be remebered by billions! What is next? Askign for apologies to the jovians?
Polinus Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.12.26 09:27:00 - [26] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris I honestly doubt it. The Empire has enough on its hands without further offending the Federation. And I've seen a lot of threats by PIE to make capsuleers their slaves (myself included, although both Rodj Blake and Archbishop seem to have a somewhat... worrying obsession with Evanda Char in this regard) but none of them have ever been carried out. I feel that this is not a matter of lacking honest intent, however, so they must either be inept, or incapable in some other fashion. also because doing so in concord regulated space, EVEN in sarum prime orbit, would result in a swift WTFPOWNAGE!
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.12.26 09:29:00 - [27] Especially if they tried it with Evanda. Have you ever seen that girl KICK? ----- CEO, Mixed Metaphor Dance Commander
Aldrith Shutaq Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.12.26 10:54:00 - [28] I honestly can't believe it. The Empire makes a progressive step and all anyone can do is splutter incoherently and mumble things about this being some maliciously planned political move. Evidently the scholars, artisans and craftsmen that were freed are actually brainwashed soldiers being sent off to undermine the Republic. It's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. When I first heard this news I was elated. I thought that when the Empress took the throne we would be living in a military state, as the Sarums are known for their serious take on warfare. And yet today I found myself planetside on Oris, surrounded by the joyful, hopeful faces of new citizens of the Empire, celebrating the announcment through the night. And I celebrated with them. At long last the Empire has taken a step to give what its endentured people deserve: a chance to live along side all of the free peoples of the Empire as equals, striving to make it a better place for everyone. And yet somehow this is a bad thing, according the oh-so pleasantly cynical populace of the IGS. This is disgraceful. Where praise and encouragment is deserved the best you can muster is Vendin's "Brilliant, horrifying political move" and Andreus Ixiris' smug "What now, you bastards". Seems that you in the other Empires are either more afraid of this change than we are, or are saddened by the prospect that the Empire isn't the evil monolith you make it out to be, all to better justify the murder of my people. If you want to scoff at shameless political antics, why don't you gawk at the execution of Eturrer and worry about the Federation becoming a writhing mob of anti-Caldari hatred? The scene was right out of your idea of an Amarrian witch-burning. I understand if you do not lavish wonderous complements upon the Empire for this, I know this is a small step in a grand picture, and that it does not make up for the Empire's past mistakes. It probably does have cold, calculated political reasons behind it as well, but that does not change the fact that several hundred million educated people are to be freed, by the good grace of our Empress Sarum and Chancelor Kor-Azor. Of course, this was done more for the good of the Empire than to appease the other Empires, so I suppose it's no loss to us if you cannot see the good being done here. I am rather curious as to the lack of comment from my fellow Amarrians on the subject. I do pray that Her Majesty's decree hasn't come as too much of a shock to them. And as to Cpt Constantinus tactless assertation that he will keep any of his slaves legally freed by the decree, pay no heed to it. If he lives in Empire borders his defiance will be met with justice.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.12.26 10:57:00 - [29] I would have to agree with those who say that this is not law; it could as well be one time "amnesty" that does not affect new-born 9th-generation slaves from this day on. I am sure the Empress will inform us on this when she has decided which option best serves her agenda. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Kathryn Dougans Amarr B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm	Posted - 2008.12.26 11:29:00 - [30] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon I would have to agree with those who say that this is not law; it could as well be one time "amnesty" that does not affect new-born 9th-generation slaves from this day on. I believe it to be ongoing. It seems pretty clear to me. Consider the Empress's words. ôOut there on the event horizon, a new age races toward us, and it is approaching fast. The Lord in his infinite grace has instructed me that the chains that fetter us will no longer be necessary in this new age of light and reason, neither the chains of hatred that restrain our minds nor the chains of indenture that restrain those less fortunate than ourselves.ö The Lord has told the Empress of the coming of a new age for the Empire. An age without slavery and mindless hatred of the non-Amarrians. And this age is coming, fast. Of course, "fast" to us means timescales of only a few hundred years or less, but nevertheless, this new age will soon be upon us. So it is time to change, which we shall do, in our normal dignified pace. Leave sudden shifts to the Federation. In this new age, there will be no slaves. Every inhabitant shall be a freeman, with their social rank not determined by blood, but by deeds. In three or four thousand years, I would not be surprised to see a Minmitar Holder, for example. And a most noble and pious person they will be. Don't ask me about the cows.

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