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Axel Vindislaga
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Posted - 2009.03.04 04:41:00 -
[91]
Half way through and I have read enough!
Security rating HAS NO EFFECT ON THE MINERALS IN THE SYSTEM.. Hello??.. Science??.. Astrogeology??..
The only factors that should effect mineral availability are mineral rights and system features such as differing types of stars and the gravity of planets moons and such.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.05 09:48:00 -
[92]
 Originally by: Axel Vindislaga
Security rating HAS NO EFFECT ON THE MINERALS IN THE SYSTEM.. Hello??.. Science??.. Astrogeology??
Hello ? Sumbarines in space ? Shots going through solid matter ? Orbiting causing you to miss as much as it causes your target to miss ? ASTEROIDS MATERIALIZING IN BELTS OUT OF THIN AIR TWO TIMES A WEEK ?!?
It's called game balance, as opposed to realism.
Between the two, realism is the first to be abandoned if a balance can't be struck between them.
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Irida Mershkov
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.06 01:27:00 -
[93]
I quite like this Akita, pretty different from other suggestions I've seen/read and that's why I like it, the different ideas are usually the best. This one is very interesting though. 
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.10 00:56:00 -
[94]
Nobody else any comments ?
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Tsual
Minmatar
Iikhelahii khulemah'lal
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Posted - 2009.04.18 01:53:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Axel Vindislaga
Half way through and I have read enough!
Security rating HAS NO EFFECT ON THE MINERALS IN THE SYSTEM.. Hello??.. Science??.. Astrogeology??..
The only factors that should effect mineral availability are mineral rights and system features such as differing types of stars and the gravity of planets moons and such.
I was starting to think in a similar direction:
One step back: space dust not asteroids are the origin of minerals
Instead of fixed belts and a certain ammount of minerals and ores, as well as having a fixed respawn time each sector is assigned several local variables being different ädust densitysô. Dust density describes how many particles of a specific type float around in a system. There is each a density for each ore type additional for none refinable ores.
Under certain gravimetrical circumstances space dust collects to more condensed micro roids and this micro roids eventually combine to a bigger roids which will attract more micro roids and grow bigger.
Game mechanical wise:
1) besides ore dust there is non refinable dust one for each nonrefinable mission ore, ice dust û which in itself can spawn as ice roids û radioactive, metallic, organic and other types. Harvested it might be usefull for other products of daily live, it might be necessary in certain production processes or to create a specific alloy.
2) Ores are found at gravimetrical spots, the gravimetrical strength of a spot doesn't provide how lucky the finder is but is part of the respawn formula:
specific dust density * gravimetrical strength of location * 3600 is the ammount of specific ore that spawns per hour at a specific location.
3) Combined with the gravimetrical strength such spots provide a magnetometrical strength this on the other hand is cue on how rich a certain spot is.
4) There are several states an asteroid can be found:
:arrow: dust cloud
:arrow: micro roid
:arrow: cluster of micro roids
:arrow: asteroid
:arrow: planetoid
each of the states has an own way of mining:
dust clouds are collected by dust cloud harvesters
micro roids are collected with tractor beams, they should be handled similar to cans, tractor beam pulls in micro roid, when the roid comes closer than 500m the player can scope it to cargo bay.
Clusters of micro roids can be mined with miners, strip miners and tractor beams however using mining laser it requires a certain script so that the laser runs on a lower power level. Not mining with this script will lead to the creation of a dust cloud and a very low yield. Tractor beam won't need a script however will have a lower yield than a scripted mining laser, yet without any danger to turn precious ore into dust.
Asteroids are mined as they are today.
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Tsual
Minmatar
Iikhelahii khulemah'lal
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Posted - 2009.04.18 01:54:00 -
[96]
planetoids planetoids are not like the modes before, to begin with they are as big as an outpost or npc owned station, have three zones, a core, an intermediate layer and a surface. Each of this is different. Beginning on the surface it is äcondensedô dust, loose mirco roids, similar to dust clouds and micro roids they can be harvested partially with tractor beam, dust cloud harvester, or scripted mining laser.
The intermediate layer/zone consists of unrefinable ore with precious ore veins, two possible ways of mining can be applied, either one strips the planetoid of this layer using a strip miner, however the player has to deal with a lot of unrefinable dust, or in combination with a survey scanner that can identify the veins and makes them each targetable.
The core, in difference to asteroids the core of a planetoid does not consist of known ores yet of inartificially alloys. The core is the hardest and will always require a strip miner to mine it. Additionally it may have a primary and secondary ore that are it's basis, then mining crystal might provide a bonus.
Asteroid farms
Being a known fact that minable asteroids are found most likely near gravimetric sites as well as objects of high mass lead to some experiments of trying to attract asteroids to specific fixed sites in so far as not having to always track them down and search them.
Well over short or long some device that fosters artificial assembling of asteroids in space and those are todays belts.
just my 2 cents
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Groingrinder
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Posted - 2009.04.29 08:15:00 -
[97]
1000% yes
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.09 12:35:00 -
[98]
So, I'm wondering which CSM candidates from the current election pool supports a fast resolution along the lines described in this thread ?
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Sep'Shoni
Gallente
Carpe Diem inc.
Crimson Dragons
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Posted - 2009.05.09 18:05:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
...
First, something needs to be done to make industrial ships more survivable. They're huge, slow, as agile as a sloth in a jar of syrup and have no means to defend themselves when caught... so why would any sane person leave empire with them when empire is at least profitable without interruption?
...
Agreed.
Sep'Shoni
Mining ore and making stuff. Its not just a job, its an obsession. |
Sep'Shoni
Gallente
Carpe Diem inc.
Crimson Dragons
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Posted - 2009.05.09 18:09:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
...
Can't you have your corp secure the system? ...
If you have discovered a means of getting corp/alliance members to agree that nothing in the entire world of Eve is more interesting than watching miners work while guarding them from pirates and belt rats please share that method.
Hiring guards costs isk.
I'll mine in low-sec only when I can be certain that I'll make more isk than in high sec AFTER paying the guards and accounting for ship, clone, implant, and cargo losses.
Sep'Shoni
Mining ore and making stuff. Its not just a job, its an obsession. |
Quacka
Cogito Facio Fio
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 18:25:00 -
[101]
/signed. This would make mining alot more interested when combined with other things.
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DragonWarp
Forsaken Forerunners
Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2009.05.09 22:58:00 -
[102]
Humm, I dunno if this is exactly the best idea, but I do know that mining needs a revamp.
I was thinking that adding a new type of asteroid, just like Veldspar, only higher yield, to 0.0 might help with the Trit imbalance. It's kind of annoying to be sitting in 0.0 and the most valuable ore you have to mine is veldspar. No joke!
I'm thinking something along the lines of a 200% or 300% boost to the amount of trit per M3 as compared to veld. While right now that much trit would be worth almost as much as the ABC asteroids, it would go down very fast, and balance out to likely around the GHHJ level, which is where it should be, for a low end 0.0 asteroid.
I'll support the idea anyway, mainly because mining needs a revamp, rather then because I think this is the best idea....
______________________
~Dragon |
Ismil
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Posted - 2009.05.09 23:07:00 -
[103]
I would mine.
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MingoBingo
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Posted - 2009.05.15 07:53:00 -
[104]
Most of what was said in this thread went right over my head. But, the idea of one or more huge Asteroid Belts in a system always makes me give a thumbs up.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.05.18 04:47:00 -
[105]
There is no problem with availability of veldspar in nullsec. We specifically don't mine veldspar because it is economically unfeasible to haul veldspar to a refinery when there are hauler spawns that drop tens of millions of tritanium. For veldspar to be viable to mine in nullsec, it would have to yield much more tritanium per cubic metre of veldspar ore.
The way I mine at present is: keep running missions until I find a sizable pocket of veldspar (eg: Mordus Folly, Recon (1 of 3)), bring in mining fleet, mine Veldspar until downtime.
To reduce the market price of veldspar, you'd have to make it available in higher concentrations than currently available. At 4 ISK per unit (each unit being 0.1m3), it's barely enough to justify mining in the first place. If the concentration of tritanium in veldspar was to increase by an order of magnitude, the volume of supply would go up, the price of tritanium would plummet, and the values of the other ores/minerals would rise.
As for the actual mining mechanic, I don't want the actual process of mining to become any more involved than it already is. I like mining as a nice relaxing exercise I can participate in while catching up on real-world chores.
Things that would make mining more "interesting" without interfering with the relaxed game-play would be to change all system belts to be just plain veldspar, with exploration sites yielding interesting ores eg: a smattering of kernite, along with huge planetoids of superdense veldspar. The mining director would scan the belts and tag rocks to be mined by various specialists who would then calibrate their mining tools and start pointing lasers at rocks.
Macro miners could keep doing their worst in system belts, while those of us prepared to invest a little effort in hands-on belt discovery can find these exploration belts with the good ores.
In the meantime we need vastly improved supplies and mobility of tritanium in order to boost the value of the other minerals. More tritanium for less money means the manufacturers will have more money left from their budget to spend on the other minerals.
Of course a side effect is that the "40% minerals from reprocessed items" figure will start being terribly skewed since these vast quantities of tritanium being hauled around the place will start appearing in the form of whatever manufactured item has the best mineral compression available at the moment.
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Liranan
M'8'S
Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2009.05.18 08:20:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Liranan on 18/05/2009 08:24:38
Why mine Arkonor, Bistot or Crokite when you can mine uber dense rocks of Veldspar instead! I love these new changes, it really is something to look forward to. Veldspar, here I come!!
AmIdoinitright?
If you look at old dev blogs and what CCP have reported then you will see that CCP have said that they want to redo the entire mining system in the lines of what has been mentioned but aren't sure yet as to how it will affect the community or game. That is why they haven't changed the way mining works as they don't want everyone to stop mining in 0.0.
Most of what I have read here is about Veldspar. It's obvious either most have never set foot outside of high-sec or have an obsession with Veldspar and are intent on forcing everyone else to mine just because it's the best in high-sec. Funny thread fails to deal with the issues at hand and fails miserably.
Last but not least, CCP have already said they will revamp the entire system by, or after, 2010. All these, so called, initiatives are a waste of time as CCP won't implement anything until then.
Farjung is my God
You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link. |
Da'Than
Interstellar Military Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.18 09:24:00 -
[107]
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Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
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Posted - 2009.05.18 10:15:00 -
[108]
You know I've supported this idea in the past, but need to put my vote in here as well. Composite asteroids are the best way to revamp mining, passes the common sense idea, and would put more use in 'scouting for rocks'. It would make using a survey scanner a necessity for maximizing yields, and take a little more thought than just lock-activate-haul. (though unlike other mining mini-game ideas, does not eliminate the ability to simply lock-activate-haul)
Intel Boost |
Liranan
M'8'S
Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2009.05.18 10:58:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Clansworth
You know I've supported this idea in the past, but need to put my vote in here as well. Composite asteroids are the best way to revamp mining, passes the common sense idea, and would put more use in 'scouting for rocks'. It would make using a survey scanner a necessity for maximizing yields, and take a little more thought than just lock-activate-haul. (though unlike other mining mini-game ideas, does not eliminate the ability to simply lock-activate-haul)
How about 'Set drones to aggressive, launch drones, come back 30 mins later, loot, finalise mission'?
Farjung is my God
You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link. |
Taaketa Frist
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Posted - 2009.05.18 21:50:00 -
[110]
I support the idea 100% and would love to see its implementation within the game.
Keep up the good ideas!
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Dang nabit |
Odhinn Vinlandii
V I R I I
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.05.26 03:16:00 -
[111]
..Supported.
..however, make all belts exploration sites. Meaning all belts have to be probed.
Add minable comets that actually orbit the system.
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Mikkaras
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Posted - 2009.05.26 11:06:00 -
[112]
As someone who is rather underwhelmed by the fact that all the training I've done to utilize increasingly specialized forms of mining technology only gets me a few more percentage points in yield per hour, I offer complete support to all the changes proposed by the OP.
The idea of using a survey scanner to see which asteroids have the best "density" of the type of ore(s) you are looking for, and picking those asteroids to mine while ignoring those of lesser quality, makes far more sense than the current method whereby you simply vacuum up every pebble in sight because there's no significant variation between them, moving from belt to belt as you clear them of recently-spawned gravel until you are out of time or fall asleep from boredom.
Analyzing a massive boulder consisting of a multitude of strata including different ores in varying richness, picking the crystals appropriate for harvesting the ore or ores that are most useful or profitable to you, and deciding when to stop mining those ores from a certain body - not when your mining laser "finds it a pale shadow" but when YOU decide that the yield you're getting has fallen below the point of profitability - would make a far more interactive system of mining than the current system which encourages macro-mining due to the sheer repetitiveness and lack of decision-making involved. And add to that the idea of having to locate these large asteroids in the first place, some of which may have been passed over by other fellow miners due to a poor composition or other reasons, and you might even achieve a bit of excitement once in a while when you scan some unprepossessing rock and suddenly realize that you've "struck gold" and will be raking in valuable ore at a rate approaching the theoretical maximum yield of your mining systems for an extended period of time...
/support
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Sanguis Sanies
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Posted - 2009.05.26 16:04:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Sanguis Sanies on 26/05/2009 16:08:10
Originally by: Akita T
So, I'm wondering which CSM candidates from the current election pool supports a fast resolution along the lines described in this thread ?
Why aren't you running for CSM 
For the last month or so I have mined more or less everyday in the same stationless 0.5 khanid system, so naturally I mine the same belt(s), keeping my own mining spreadsheet I have noticed a trend, now these are the numbers I've pulled for Fiery Kernite;
5794 +7097 +7097 +7097 +4545 +7097 +4545 +2787 +7097 +2787 +5794 +7083 +2787
These are the numbers for Dense Veldspar;
55558 +39415 +60536 +10272 +60536 +10272 +29324 +60535 +10273 +21993 +46052 +60535 +10273 +46052 +55558 +20200
Notice how I have the EXACT same numbers pop up again and again. F.Ker 7097 5 times, 4545 twice, 5794 twice, 2787 three times.
as I Jetcan mine the numbers for Dense Veldspar are less similar as it tends to "overflow" into the next Jetcan and I input the two different values as opposed to putting in the "day" amount, but even so; 60535/60536 4 times, 46052 twice, 55558 twice.
If it's at the point where I am mining not only the same belts, but PRECISELY the same ROIDS then yes; mining needs an overhaul.
If I was completely and utterly anal I could keep a spreadsheet that showed each individual roid and set-up a plan to mine each roid from most profitable to least profitable, warping from precise bookmark to precise bookmark to mine one or two roids then move to the next, till all veld in the system is gone, then scor, then Ker, with my Orca/Hauler keeping up behind me, no need to worry about a tank, no need to worry about drones, I'd only be spending 2 or three minutes in each bookmark anyway.
With that kind of precise and complete predictability where is the incentive NOT to macro.
[/end rant 1]
[Begin rant 2]
Also I would Like to add that there is a need for greater diversity in Mining ships, only six ships in total and two support ships! not to mention that the Retriever and Hulk are the only ones used (Except Mackinaws with ICE mining).
If I fly missions or 0.0 blob then I have a choice of 6 frigates, 4 crusiers and 3 Battleships PER RACE, plus at least 1 Tech 2 PER SHIP and then add in Faction variaties and I have at least 30 ships PER RACE to fly around in, then add in Support, Logistics and Command ships and that blows out to 40+ ships PER RACE, each with it's own specific purpose and bonuses, So I can have a highly specialised 0.0 blob flying around.
Rather than just having ORE as the be-all-and-end-all of mining maybe we could have 1 or 2 other NPC mining Factions with BPO/BPC's that have bonuses to specific types of roid (like a skiff has +60% to Merc per level, maybe we could have one that was +10% to Veld per level) and they should have a different skill tree so that Mining-Barge and Exhumer belong to ORE ships, but (for example) High Sec Specialists Frigate and High Sec Specialists Crusier belong to the High Sec Specialists Ships separate and distinct from ORE skill tree. We could also have Mining Modules and euipment made by another 1 or 2 different NPC corps. ORE can't possible be the only corp in the EVEverse that has a stake in mining!
Sorry if I got a bit off topic from the OP, got a bit caught up in it.  wow only 668 characters left!!
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Esker Sheep
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Posted - 2009.05.28 16:18:00 -
[114]
I'm broadly in support of the proposal but have some additional comments regarding lowsec mining.
Mining in lowsec is too risky for the proposal to help lure miners into it. As well as the rock revamp there need to be a couple, at least, of new ships designed for the purpose of mining in hostile space. Something along the lines of what transport ships are to industrials. If a miner knew, that if they bought one of these ships, they had a good chance of escaping an individual pirate it might encourage them to venture into lowsec. |
Molock Saronen
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Posted - 2009.05.29 10:14:00 -
[115]
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Erik Finnegan
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Posted - 2009.05.30 09:20:00 -
[116]
Yes, yes, YES! 
Thank you for summarizing the mining suggestions and bringing up a fantastic new system. Especially the "easy to tweak after implementation" is important for any revolutionary approach.
Two additional thoughts:
* I want to tie the security rating of a system to the "marshal" idea and make the value implied by the effectiveness of marshal work in the jurisdiction (constellation) where the system is in.
* I would toss in another sensation to mining: sound ! A mining scanner would be needed to detect the desired ore, and you need to screen the rock, moving the scanner probe around, listening to the loudest beep or quickest beep-beep-beep where to start to drill. Now try and program a macro for that.
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Sep'Shoni
Gallente
Carpe Diem inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.30 14:38:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Erik Finnegan
Yes, yes, YES!
Thank you for summarizing the mining suggestions and bringing up a fantastic new system. Especially the "easy to tweak after implementation" is important for any revolutionary approach.
Two additional thoughts:
* I want to tie the security rating of a system to the "marshal" idea and make the value implied by the effectiveness of marshal work in the jurisdiction (constellation) where the system is in.
* I would toss in another sensation to mining: sound ! A mining scanner would be needed to detect the desired ore, and you need to screen the rock, moving the scanner probe around, listening to the loudest beep or quickest beep-beep-beep where to start to drill. Now try and program a macro for that.
The idea of using sound is really cool.
But the needs of the hearing impaired (or even people whose computers are in living rooms and family rooms amongst other family activities), would have to be considered.
Sep'Shoni
Mining ore and making stuff. Its not just a job, its an obsession. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.30 15:33:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Erik Finnegan
support+ideas
Thank you for your support of this idea - I assume this means the issue will be raised at the first meeting of the 3rd CSM ?
I am eagerly awaiting the conclusion of your encounters with CCP.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Erik Finnegan
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Posted - 2009.05.31 18:22:00 -
[119]
Well, I appreciate your enthusiasm. Then again, this proposal will potentially consume much energy of CCP. Thus, I would like to discuss with you, and your mastermind Nyphur, before shooting it to a CSM meeting; and I am referring to the regular meetings, where we build the list for Iceland.
Mining has been discussed in Iceland early this year. CCP was really vague, seems like they have something, which did not finish for Apocrypha, and the CSM did not really throw in much. At least it appears to me that the real trigger, which excites everyone's passion, has not yet been found. Seems like mining is not tied to the end-game, thus a lack of interest from the big players. And I am not sure if they would be so fond of seeing mining regain importance?
Please join us in the IG channel TAKE CARE for live discussion. |
Solo Player
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Posted - 2009.05.31 19:53:00 -
[120]
Total revamps often win me over just for nevelty's sake, and mining really needs love. Solid concept, here.
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