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alexreborn
Sekura-Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.26 14:42:00 -
[1]
Edited by: alexreborn on 26/12/2008 14:43:25
Edited by: alexreborn on 26/12/2008 14:43:13
Let me start off by saying Ive never been scammed, nor scammed anyone. But you gotta be freaking kidding me when youre allowed to scam GTC's (plex) cards in game. And this is a legit part of the game? How? They got rid of 30 day time codes, replaced them with super expensive 60 day time codes, pretty much destroyed a pretty good system of them in game, and replaced them with scamable PLEX cards.
Why is it okay to scam PLEX cards, but you cant scam people with characters transfers? And this scamming has turned rampent. Is anyone even playing the game anymore? You know, flying a space ship and shooting at things? Or is that what everyone is doing docked up in station? Just setting up scams?
Someone pays real life money for a plex card, sells it in game, gets scammed anad pretty much loses it all. Thats okay, but other scams are against the EULA? Wait, we cant sell our characters for real life money, we cant sell isk or buy isk for real life money, but, we can scam PLEX cards that bought with real life money?
And thats okay? Im all for scams in game. You buy a myrmidon, or a shuttle for 500 mil, youre an idiot.. but PLEX cards shouldn't be scamable There should be a price threshhold for the item. Oh no but CCP Doesn't want to do that because they dont want to put a monetary value to ISK OMG what will the world come to if CCP says you cant setup contracts of PLEX cards, or sell them, with ******ed isk values. omg!
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mirel yirrin
Gallente
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2008.12.26 14:43:00 -
[2]
Seems like a grey area.
It is an ingame item, however, regardless of its origin.
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alexreborn
Sekura-Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.26 14:46:00 -
[3]
Edited by: alexreborn on 26/12/2008 14:51:59
Edited by: alexreborn on 26/12/2008 14:50:38
Edited by: alexreborn on 26/12/2008 14:48:27
The only logical conclusion I came to was that CCP doesn't want to draw fire from the real world, because if they attach a monetary value to isk, such as saying that a PLEX card is worth this much isk X, that would mean that the money you pay for the 2x PLEX cards would be = to the isk value...
That its an in-game item, is just part of their lies and deciet rather then telling us the real reason. And there is no real reason.
Characters are in game items. Why cant those be scammed? Infact the entire transcation is done between 2 in game characters, on an forum with our avatars, not our real names/etc. Why is that bad?
What about buying isk for cash? Character gives you ISK in game. You might get scammed. youre taking a chance. Why is that an offence? Because macroers ruin the game? But scammers dont? Give me a break, MAcroers haven't ruined anything because last time I was in JOVAINAN, there were 500 HAULERS in local MACROING. Oh wait, 1 person running 50 accounts with macros, who has enough time to respond to a GM message 10 minutes after its sent, isn't macroing.
Im just perplexed to how CCP does is business.
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.12.26 15:01:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: alexreborn
And thats okay? Im all for scams in game. You buy a myrmidon, or a shuttle for 500 mil, youre an idiot.. but PLEX cards shouldn't be scamable There should be a price threshhold for the item. Oh no but CCP Doesn't want to do that because they dont want to put a monetary value to ISK OMG what will the world come to if CCP says you cant setup contracts of PLEX cards, or sell them, with ******ed isk values. omg!
Supply and demand. I was paying $4 for gas this summer, and I am paying $1.60 now. Pay 14.99 for 30 days of play and stop worrying about PLEX and monetary value not being set in stone, if you think a PLEX costs too much don't buy it.
If enough people stop buying PLEX in-game for inflated values, the value will drop and they will be worth less! 
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Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
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alexreborn
Sekura-Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.26 15:07:00 -
[5]
Edited by: alexreborn on 26/12/2008 15:11:45
No I think you mis understood youre talking about SUpply and Demand, Im talking about scams. A price threshold would allow for pricing to be w/e the market asks of it, however, there would be limitations. YOu cant set up scam contracts with the PLEX cards. EG. WTB Plex Cards for 5 isk. OR WTT Plex card, you give me plex card and 500 mil isk. Thats a scam. Thats not supply and demand. Also, if the price where to fluctuate so much and reach the upper or lower threshhold price, all CCP has to do is alter 1 variable. You can still buy and sell them at the lower, upper end threshold price, but this ensures that people dont lose something worth 500 mil isk, for 1 mil isk/etc.
And no, i dont buy them at all. And dont intend too. I just dont understand how CCP is okay with that, but not okay with everything else I mentioned.
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Another Whine
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Posted - 2008.12.26 15:29:00 -
[6]
2/10
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Gandanga
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.26 15:41:00 -
[7]
I have to admit I was not very happy when ccp stated that it was fine to scam PLEX`s.
I pay for all my accounts using gtc bought from friends or from the forums , using isk.
I really think it starts blurring the areas of what is acceptable , morally and within the rules , when it is percieved that ccp is now allowing RMT scamming .
Daily now I see adverts in game by isk sellers offering 1 bill isk ( sometimes with bonus 10% ) for under $20 . For people paying for EVE with real money this has to be the cheapest way to pay for the game.
Now I am not suggesting that people use this method , I realise that it is against the EULA and will earn a transgressor , confisctation or possibly a ban . I dont and will never buy isk , as I have no problem earning all I need within the game.
I do think that in the current worldwide economic situation and with CCP appearing , to some people , condoning real money scamming , that we will see an upsurge in people buying isk .
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alexreborn
Sekura-Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.26 16:05:00 -
[8]
Edited by: alexreborn on 26/12/2008 16:07:46
Youre probably less likely to get caught by CCP buying ISK with real life money, over being scammed in a PLEX sale if you aren't paying 100% attention. Also the macroers have the best ISK deals anways. Any trade channel is spammed with their prices. It costs less to buy the isk with real life money, then buy a GTC with that isk. LOL what a joke.
I bet that if you payed for your account with a fake credit card though CCP would be calling the authorities to arrest you.
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Mickey Simon
Noir.
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Posted - 2008.12.26 16:10:00 -
[9]
I honestly don't see the difference between a plex scam, and say a freighter scam - expect with the freighter scam you lose 2 or 3 times as much.
I think your issue stems from the fact that because you want to buy PLEX's more regularly than other expensive items, you are more likely to be scammed - correct?
Otherwise, I don't feel that they're any different to any other ingame item. If you're selling them, and you lose 400M ISK because you fail to read the fine print, how is that any different from selling the PLEX for 400M, buying a 400M item, and then losing that 400M item to a scam?
It's not.
That's how I see it anyway.
Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . . |
alexreborn
Sekura-Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.26 16:20:00 -
[10]
Edited by: alexreborn on 26/12/2008 16:22:52
No I really dont care about buying them. Its not about me. Its just a fail mechanic that I dont understand and would like clarity on the issue, other then "youre a nub, u suck, give me all ur stuff"
The problem Im having is that the only way to get a PLEX is to buy a 60 day GTC with real money. You then enter the code, and it turns into 2x PLEXs that you get in station and can sell on contracts or on market.
Something you payed for with real life cash, can now be turned into a scammers delight in this game? Its one thing where the thing is completely virutal: AKA a freighter scam, everything is in game. However in order to get a PLEX you need to go pay for it with real life money.
So because now its a virtual item there are no rules that govern it and it can be scammed for next to nothing? If so why? What is the real reason behind this? And how does this not open up a can of worms for anything else? Why is it okay to turn real life money into a virtual game item, but you cant buy items- such as isk or characters, or ships, for real life money?
Where exactly and how exactly has this imaginery line been drawn and suddenly been accepted by this community?
Essentially a PLEX scam, and winning the cotnract to a plex scam, is like the scammer getting FREE money because they used the game mechanic to their advantage..
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GutlessCamper
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Posted - 2008.12.26 16:21:00 -
[11]
Agree with op
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Mickey Simon
Noir.
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Posted - 2008.12.26 16:39:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Mickey Simon on 26/12/2008 16:43:40
Originally by: alexreborn
stuff
How is scamming for a plex any different to scamming for something else, and then buying a plex?
Or selling a plex, and then being scammed?
There's an additional step, but it's not that different.
If it's that much of an issue for you, use the timecode bazarr?
edit: To me, the fact that PLEX's can be bought using ISK or money makes them the same as anything. You lose ISK if you get scammed for a freighter, that's exactly what's happening when you get scammed with a PLEX. Yes, you've invested real money in that, what you got for that real life money was a PLEX - not the value of the PLEX in ISK.
Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . . |
FievelGoesPostal
Gallente
The Giant Squid Corp.
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Posted - 2008.12.26 16:40:00 -
[13]
Agreed alex . This is line that I think shouldnt be crossed, and CCP needs to do something.
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Jim Hazard
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: alexreborn
Edited by: alexreborn on 26/12/2008 15:18:46
Supply and Demand? Really, the demand dropped by more then 100%? I doubt that.
o_O?
can not find the right words for such a silly statement.
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alexreborn
Sekura-Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:08:00 -
[15]
Edited by: alexreborn on 26/12/2008 17:10:44
The Money you spend in real life nets you a PLEX. An in game item that is used to give you 30 days.
This item cannot be moved from stations.
This item can be put on contracts and markets.
Why? If its an in game item then like you said, why does it have special rules like that then? Cant be moved from stations? Why so that it doesn't get destroyed? I thought it was an in game item.....
Wait, its meant only to be used on the market system, and contract system right?
If thats true, then what you said about it having no ISK value is not true. Because the sole purpose of a PLEX card, which cant be moved, and only sold, has 1 reason. To be sold on the eve market. So right, you didn't buy isk by buying a plex card, but you bought a plex card to sell it for isk.
Another thing is: You just spent real life money to get an in game item. Why is this okay, but spending real life money to get someone to trade you an in game item, against the EULA?
You see before it was GTC secure trade, with the 30 day GTCs which mean you were giving isk, but there was no item being traded. Essentially what CCP has done is become hipocrits to their own EULA which I believe states explciitly u cant trade real money for in game items because it creates an artificial advantage for you.
So again, we are okay with PLEX trading, but not okay with the other trading? And why? PLEX are okay because it creates revenue for CCP right?
But, didn't 30 day GTC's do the exact same thing? And wehre 100% secure? But thats gone now and has been replaced by this terrible system that is specifically set up to be scammed? Why?
If this is allowed, why cant I buy a ship for real life cash, have the macroer trade it to me/contract it to me, then Sell it on contracts? Is that not exactly the same thing? Its an in game item?
I guess CCP can do w/e they want though, its their virtual world.
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Jim Hazard
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:13:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jim Hazard on 26/12/2008 17:13:49
I really do not have any clue what you are on about.
I dont like all the scams myself, but in the end i do not care about scamming.
In the end you only get scammed when you are a total ****** anyway and if you are, you pretty much deserve to get scammed.
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alexreborn
Sekura-Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:14:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jim Hazard
Originally by: alexreborn
Edited by: alexreborn on 26/12/2008 15:18:46
Supply and Demand? Really, the demand dropped by more then 100%? I doubt that.
o_O?
can not find the right words for such a silly statement.
Why did Gas price drop from 4$ to 1.50$ a gallon? Was it because of supply and demand?
DID demand change?
DID supply change?
No it did not. It was a purely speculative market. However, if you want to talk about demand and supply: IN order for gas to drop so sharply in price following the demand supply curve a few things have to happen:
a) Supply increases so much that they have way too much inventory and nothing to do with it. Price drops.
b) Demand drops because the price is to high. Excess inventory piles up, must be gotten rid of, price drops.
Theres like a million reasons why if u follow the supply demand curve. ifu can explain it better plz go ahead Mr Economics wiz.
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alexreborn
Sekura-Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:15:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jim Hazard
Edited by: Jim Hazard on 26/12/2008 17:13:49
I really do not have any clue what you are on about.
I dont like all the scams myself, but in the end i do not care about scamming.
In the end you only get scammed when you are a total ****** anyway and if you are, you pretty much deserve to get scammed.
Unless youre an incoherent moron that cant read, I think Ive explained my self fairly well.
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Jim Hazard
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:16:00 -
[19]
Originally by: alexreborn
Originally by: Jim Hazard
Originally by: alexreborn
Edited by: alexreborn on 26/12/2008 15:18:46
Supply and Demand? Really, the demand dropped by more then 100%? I doubt that.
o_O?
can not find the right words for such a silly statement.
Why did Gas price drop from 4$ to 1.50$ a gallon? Was it because of supply and demand?
DID demand change?
DID supply change?
No it did not. It was a purely speculative market. However, if you want to talk about demand and supply: IN order for gas to drop so sharply in price following the demand supply curve a few things have to happen:
a) Supply increases so much that they have way too much inventory and nothing to do with it. Price drops.
b) Demand drops because the price is to high. Excess inventory piles up, must be gotten rid of, price drops.
Theres like a million reasons why if u follow the supply demand curve. ifu can explain it better plz go ahead Mr Economics wiz.
ok.. for the slow ppl....
when demand drops by 100% there is no demand left, Mr. math Genious. (also there is no way demand drops by more than 100%)
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alexreborn
Sekura-Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:19:00 -
[20]
Edited by: alexreborn on 26/12/2008 17:19:56
wow I made a typo in my hurry and you got me. youre so smart. you win.
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Ralarina
Caldari
Vivicide
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:20:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jim Hazard
when demand drops by 100% there is no demand left, Mr. math Genious. (also there is no way demand drops by more than 100%)
That's "genius", genius :D
But you're right ;-)
And alex, that wasn't a typo, that was your inability to understand how maths works :)
--
Ralara's Alt (due to Forum ban) |
alexreborn
Sekura-Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:23:00 -
[22]
I can only wish I was as smart as you.
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Jim Hazard
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:25:00 -
[23]
Originally by: alexreborn
Edited by: alexreborn on 26/12/2008 17:19:56
wow I made a typo in my hurry and you got me. youre so smart. you win.
What i made there was a typo, but where in your statement up there would be the typo???
I bet your just some bitter guy who tried to sell a plex card and got scammed anyway, even if you do not want to admit it. Now back into your hole and do some research about math basics.
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Ralarina
Caldari
Vivicide
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:26:00 -
[24]
Originally by: alexreborn
I can only wish I was as smart as you.
It's difficult, I know. One day... one day.
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Ralara's Alt (due to Forum ban) |
Jim Hazard
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:28:00 -
[25]
btw. anyone wants some popcorn?
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Another Whine
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:46:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jim Hazard
btw. anyone wants some popcorn?
gif 
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Jim Hazard
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:56:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Another Whine
Originally by: Jim Hazard
btw. anyone wants some popcorn?
gif
salted or with sugar?
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Mickey Simon
Noir.
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Posted - 2008.12.26 18:02:00 -
[28]
Originally by: alexreborn
Why? If its an in game item then like you said, why does it have special rules like that then? Cant be moved from stations? Why so that it doesn't get destroyed? I thought it was an in game item.....
Not sure, I'd be more than happy with them being moved. Perhaps its to do with how CCP track their revenue, and expect a certain number of GTC's sold means a certain number of active accounts over a certain time period - I'm not sure.
Quote:
If thats true, then what you said about it having no ISK value is not true.
What I said was that for your money, you are given a PLEX. You are not given the current market value of a PLEX in ISK, you are given the PLEX. Therefore the value of your RL transfer will always be constant - you get 1 month of game time in item form. Yes, there is the ability to chuck it up on the market or contract, but that's the same as you have the opportunity to put any ingame item up for sale.
There's the possibility that the PLEX market will crash completely, and your PLEX's will be worthless - there's always been that possibility. It hasn't happened, but it might. They're subject to the same market dynamics that any other item is, apart from differing prices in differing areas (again, the PLEX movement restriction may not be related to making it "safer" or to minimise market profiteering, but may be related to something more technical).
Quote:
You see before it was GTC secure trade, with the 30 day GTCs which mean you were giving isk, but there was no item being traded. Essentially what CCP has done is become hipocrits to their own EULA which I believe states explciitly u cant trade real money for in game items because it creates an artificial advantage for you.
So again, we are okay with PLEX trading, but not okay with the other trading? And why? PLEX are okay because it creates revenue for CCP right?
The PLEX in itself offers no advantage to the player, other than being something valuable. It's not like buying a ship directly, or paying for a level V skill.
I believe the reason PLEX (and GTC) selling is "legal" is because:
a) CCP's income would remain the same if 100% of the playerbase subscribed and noone bought GTC's, or if 50% subscribed and these 50% bought GTC's which the other 50% bought ingame. There's no loss for CCP.
b) It adds value to the game for players. Without GTC trading, or PLEX's, noone could buy gametime with ingame currency. This gives people an additional reason to continue playing, and attracts new players.
Quote:
But, didn't 30 day GTC's do the exact same thing? And wehre 100% secure? But thats gone now and has been replaced by this terrible system that is specifically set up to be scammed? Why?
Putting them on the ingame market makes it more competitive - it's easier to check prices. You're still able to use the timecode bazaar as I said before.
Quote:
If this is allowed, why cant I buy a ship for real life cash, have the macroer trade it to me/contract it to me, then Sell it on contracts? Is that not exactly the same thing? Its an in game item?
It's not exactly the same, you've made an illogical jump there - but I understand where you're coming from.
At the end of the day, the timecode bazaar still exists, if you're worried about getting scammed use it 
Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . . |
Tyranthin
Debitum Naturae
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.12.26 18:11:00 -
[29]
I firmly believe that anyone who is an idiot and doesn't pay attention to what they're doing deserves to get scammed. What they're getting scammed out of is quite irrelevant.
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AdmiralDovolski
Gallente
N.A.S.A.
Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.12.26 18:32:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tyranthin
I firmly believe that anyone who is an idiot and doesn't pay attention to what they're doing deserves to get scammed. What they're getting scammed out of is quite irrelevant.
^this
Add to the fact that the PLEX has no real ingame value, buying one for 400k isk (via a scam) is legit. some people out there might want to sell it for that much.
same with char transfers, there is no real value for them. only what people are willing to pay.
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