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Precision Mining (more active mining)

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Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2008.12.29 10:57:00 - [1] Currently Mining is a little (okay maybe a bit more) buggered, all you have to do is fly your Hulk to a belt, park it next to a nice roid, hit F1-F3 and then go watch Stargate or something. Not exactly what one might expect, a profession where most of the time you actually do something else. The main problem is that there is simply nothing else for it, aside from watching for rats and your mining drones, the only real 'activity' is putting ore in cans, either jetcans or GSCs in your hold. This is where Precision Mining comes in, as something of a minigame to improve mining efficiency and keep the miner nicely occupied with Mining. (it is optional for the ones who like to AFK mine) It will utilize the Survey Scanner (maybe scanning normal roid contents should be moved to ship scanner) to scan a single asteroid, although you can scan multiple in succession. When scanning you get a 2D (maybe 3D?) image of the asteroid back, in which the mineral veins are clearly shown. Normally Mining Lasers (afk mode) would simply randomly mine the entire asteroid, taking in a lot of unneeded material and waste. Precision Mining is where you manually concentrate your targets on one or more veins, increasing your efficiency. The roid and the lasers are constantly in motion, and richer and poorer concentrations of minerals will pop up. Strip Miners will be harder to manage than the other non-strip Mining Lasers. As you are managing your lasers, your client keeps track of how efficient you are with your mining lasers. At the end of the cycle, your client sends a single message to the server, where it simply returns a value (a percentage) of how efficient the player was. Efficiency is not yield, but ore mass/weight. Messing with yield could throw the mineral market into chaos and messing with cargohold might have other dire results, so efficiency is purely about how heavy the precision ore variant is when it comes in. Say you mine 1000 units of Veldspar when your cycle ends, and you have been 83% efficient. Your client sends that value to the server, which then returns 83% Precision Veldspar and 17% regular Veldspar to your cargohold. Precision variants of ore are five times less heavy than their normal cousins, meaning you can carry five times as much ore. Instead of a 20.000m3 cargohold being able to hold 0.2mil of Veldspar, you could hold 1mil Precision Veldspar. You would still have to mine 1 million worth of Veldspar (as yield is not affected) but your cargo capacity would be significantly increased (also solving the problem of GSCs being so small) when it comes to ore. The Precision variants (it can be given another name) have the exact same properties as their regular variants when it comes to refining, they are only a lot less heavy, meaning you can carry a lot more of it (Precision Arkonor would be 3.2m3 instead of 16m3 for example). If in the future ore types are merged or more content is added, maybe this could be a nice way to add some activity to Mining? ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
Velicitia N.A.S.A.	Posted - 2008.12.29 18:53:00 - [2] Originally by: Thenoran <snip> Precision variants of ore have 1/5 the volume of their normal cousins, meaning you can carry five times as much ore. <snip> Fixed that for ya... seems like a pretty good idea i guess, although personally I'm too busy keeping an eye on local to worry too much about efficiency if this was implemented (usually it's me and a belt tank... out in nullsec). HOWEVER, this could get fun during corp ops where we actually have a stronger defensive presence
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2008.12.29 22:12:00 - [3] Originally by: Velicitia Originally by: Thenoran <snip> Precision variants of ore have 1/5 the volume of their normal cousins, meaning you can carry five times as much ore. <snip> Fixed that for ya... seems like a pretty good idea i guess, although personally I'm too busy keeping an eye on local to worry too much about efficiency if this was implemented (usually it's me and a belt tank... out in nullsec). HOWEVER, this could get fun during corp ops where we actually have a stronger defensive presence Yeh as said it's optional, so normal mining as it is now would still be around. Maybe gang links could boost efficiency or make it easier to target the veins. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
CommanderData211	Posted - 2008.12.29 22:22:00 - [4] spectacular. amazing idea. are there any more adjectives for awesome...?
Alphonze Tleilaxu	Posted - 2008.12.30 00:20:00 - [5] When I mine solo in my hulk i get bored quickly and usually only end up with 2 or 3 loads before I dock and log. This would be something that could keep me doing something and getting more profit myself :) Just one question though, when you refine the 'precision' ore is there any diffence in that?
Rudolf Miller Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.	Posted - 2008.12.30 04:44:00 - [6] god yes... oh god yes DO WANT just work out the balancing on the precision ore and we'd be golden
Captain Bringdown Minmatar Rage Against the Answering Machine	Posted - 2008.12.30 05:39:00 - [7] I dont like the part about the client keeping track of how 'good' youre mining.. sounds too exploitable
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2008.12.30 20:48:00 - [8] Originally by: Alphonze Tleilaxu When I mine solo in my hulk i get bored quickly and usually only end up with 2 or 3 loads before I dock and log. This would be something that could keep me doing something and getting more profit myself :) Just one question though, when you refine the 'precision' ore is there any diffence in that? Nope, the Precision variants use the exact same refining statistics as their normal cousins. As for possible exploiting of the tracking, that's up to CCP to test and secure, keeping the tracking on client-side means there is no added calls to the server (as it would only send the one value). ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
Shea Klant	Posted - 2008.12.30 21:36:00 - [9] I'd like to see the mining career split in two directions. Something similar to your precision mining, where scanning and using small ships brings up much more valuable materials and hidden items, so that the lone prospector can cherry pick high value finds out of the rocks similar to how salvaging is conducted now. I would also like to see capital ship sized strip mining ships that actualy degrade the ore they pull in to the basic type, but mine at such a high rate that it is also profitable on a large scale. I still find it kind of sad that things have not progressed beyond harvesting missions and rats for materials as the most effective and profitable means of doing so.
Lythane	Posted - 2008.12.31 02:48:00 - [10] This is brilliant, and simply must be done. I love this idea.
Msgerbs Gallente Imperial Assualt Guild	Posted - 2008.12.31 04:25:00 - [11] Originally by: Thenoran Strip Miners will be harder to manage than the other non-strip Mining Lasers. Good idea, except for this. I understand the logic, but still. Strip miners just strip up huge swatches of rock and sort it out later. So shouldn't managing them be EASIER, since they are already designed for handling all the crap rock (for want of a better term)
Rchard Rahl	Posted - 2008.12.31 04:31:00 - [12] sorry in advance if this is thread hijacking, but you could also use this as a way to stop macro mining. you could make it so that when you origonally target the roid and the image comes up you target the mineral vain and once targeted you get a base effeceincy and that lowers and what the op proposed is what keeps up effeciency. and if you dont click on a vain you would mine less than you normally would. this would hurt macro miners by reducing their yeild, but would barely effect anyone else cause it would only require one click per roid. "in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king"-Desiderius Erasmus
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2008.12.31 12:22:00 - [13] Originally by: Msgerbs Originally by: Thenoran Strip Miners will be harder to manage than the other non-strip Mining Lasers. Good idea, except for this. I understand the logic, but still. Strip miners just strip up huge swatches of rock and sort it out later. So shouldn't managing them be EASIER, since they are already designed for handling all the crap rock (for want of a better term) I suppose they could bring in more waste material than the normal mining lasers (instead of 1/5 maybe 1/3?). My idea of it was that those large bulky strip miners, although capable of being precise, would be harder to narrow down. Still, those in Hulks and barges should be given equal benefit to those using normal mining lasers. Quote: ...this would hurt macro miners by reducing their yeild... As I much as I would like to do <unmentionables> to Macrominers, messing with yield is dangerous as it could disrupt the market if not managed properly. For Macrominers to be dealt with, it might help to know how they do it first so that Precision mining can be adjusted without adding too much unneeded trouble for the real miners (maybe that you can only target roids via the Survey Scanner or something). Mining without a Survey Scanner should still be possible for those who like to AFK mine (although this may be the majority of macrominers) unless AFK mining (as you can't do much else AFK in EVE such as missions) is considered too easy/bad. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
silken mouth	Posted - 2008.12.31 14:19:00 - [14] you could theoretically use that precision percentage to give the player a certain amount of compressed ore, which has a compression of 20:1. At 100% precision you could get for example 10% compressed ore. As for macrominers and chinafarmers, the later being much worse, you wont get rid of them with that, but you can gain an advantage over them...
Wardo21	Posted - 2008.12.31 23:00:00 - [15] Any image interface can be macroed. "Look for the brightest blue spot in this frame, move mouse to that pixel and left click every 1-2 seconds" would be a simple exercise for a macro writer. Whatever color is used to differentiate for the human eye will be infallible spotlights for the macro that sees in absolute values. Not to mention I don't want to play a mini-game when mining.
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2009.01.01 13:22:00 - [16] Originally by: Wardo21 Any image interface can be macroed. "Look for the brightest blue spot in this frame, move mouse to that pixel and left click every 1-2 seconds" would be a simple exercise for a macro writer. Whatever color is used to differentiate for the human eye will be infallible spotlights for the macro that sees in absolute values. Not to mention I don't want to play a mini-game when mining. The mini-game is optional, you can still mine as you can now with the same efficiency. Precision mining is purely something you can optionally do for those who want to have something to do while mining, getting some efficiency in ore weight in return. As for macroing, that's up to CCP to find a solution for. How the veins are displayed might help in this. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
k'nah Manaan	Posted - 2009.01.02 02:42:00 - [17] Edited by: k''nah Manaan on 02/01/2009 02:45:32 Everyone is always saying mining is boring, and okay it is sometimes, but the answer isn't mini games to distract you. the answer is go somewhere where it is more exciting. When I got bored of mining in empire and all the macroers cleaning out the belts before I had a chance to get to them I moved to 0.0. not only do you make more ISK but you're time is equally split between keeping an eye out for rats other players that want to blow you out of the sky, figuring out how to convince your buddies that taking the time to haul the billions worth of ore you just mined is worth taking a break from whatever there doing, and chatting in all the traders chat channels (shout out to Traders' Academy)looking for the region with the best prices for whatever your mining. the actual act of mining the roid is only a small part of what makes being a miner in EVE so great. Leave mining the way it is ,with maybe the exception of exploration belts, and if you don't think its fun go find another part of EVE you do like. Theres to much to do in this game to sit around and do something you think is "buggered"
Xephys	Posted - 2009.01.02 03:13:00 - [18] I like the general idea, as I also agree mining could use a more active method of extraction. It would, of course, have to be tweaked very heavily, but I support the basic idea.
Rolly Polly 20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.02 04:01:00 - [19] hmm, how making asteroids generic asteroids and then using the minigame to get you the different ore types. I think it being centered around a graphical minigame would seem a little detatched from eve but something more involved would certainly spice things up.
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2009.01.02 12:44:00 - [20] Originally by: k'nah Manaan Edited by: k''nah Manaan on 02/01/2009 02:45:32 Everyone is always saying mining is boring, and okay it is sometimes, but the answer isn't mini games to distract you. the answer is go somewhere where it is more exciting. When I got bored of mining in empire and all the macroers cleaning out the belts before I had a chance to get to them I moved to 0.0. not only do you make more ISK but you're time is equally split between keeping an eye out for rats other players that want to blow you out of the sky, figuring out how to convince your buddies that taking the time to haul the billions worth of ore you just mined is worth taking a break from whatever there doing, and chatting in all the traders chat channels (shout out to Traders' Academy)looking for the region with the best prices for whatever your mining. the actual act of mining the roid is only a small part of what makes being a miner in EVE so great. Leave mining the way it is ,with maybe the exception of exploration belts, and if you don't think its fun go find another part of EVE you do like. Theres to much to do in this game to sit around and do something you think is "buggered" People who don't want to get bored mining shouldn't be forced into 0.0. I ninja mine in a Skiff in low-sec sometimes for the fun of it (as low-sec ore is crap) but moving to 0.0 brings a lot of changes to how someone plays EVE. Especially the more casual players might not want to make the investment to move to 0.0 purely for more 'exciting' mining. As for multiple ore types, Precision Mining could work for that too. If multiple ore types are merged into the same asteroid, you could use Precision Mining to mine only one specific type of ore. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
CommanderData211	Posted - 2009.01.02 13:37:00 - [21] Loved this idea from the beginning, just have to say that :). It sounds like a great idea. Those of us interested in the precision mining could take advantage of it, and those who want to continue mining the normal way can. I really like the idea that a percentage of the ore could be in compressed form. It would be like finding the dense irregularities when the roid was formed. The beauty of this is that it doesn't have to interfere with regular mining at all. Plus, it could be an ISK dump by way of the skills needed to acquire the ability to precision mine. The thermodynamics skill is similar to this idea. You don't need to use it at all, but if you want that extra boost, you can spend the money for the skill and manage the logistics of overheating modules. The precision mining will not only add a boost to the mining, but could make it more interesting for those of us so inclined. In EVE the pvp aspect is completely fluid, where innumerable variables have to be considered. The complexity is natural and everchanging as new tactics are attempted. I know there are tried and true methods of dispatching ones enemies, but what i am getting at is that with this system a great deal of complexity could be added to a very simplistic system. It could turn mining into a profession where actual skill is required as opposed to just parking in a belt and hauling the ore back.
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2009.01.04 13:20:00 - [22] It might also help with GSCs as they could contain a lot more ore all of a sudden without actually changing the containers. For Ice Mining I'm not sure yet as they always yield one unit of Ice, maybe if you simply have a high enough % you will get a Precision Ice variant entirely. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2009.02.01 19:22:00 - [23] For Ice Mining, this could be modified to give you Ice Shards. You can get multiple kinds of shards which then refine into the various isotopes and other ice minerals. The shards won't be as big as the current 1000m3 ice blocks, meaning they can be used and transported a little easier. Possibly you could aim for specific shards, mining mostly Heavy Water or Liquid Ozone. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2009.02.19 13:38:00 - [24] Bumping for possible addition to Apocrypha. In Apocrypha there are new asteroid models, maybe these could be used by the Survey Scanner to display the veins as those new models look far better and more diverse than the old ones. Another thought to add a little interest to Mining is the addition of Mining Crystal Scripts. There are two Scripts, Focused and Diffuse. Using a Focused script increases the range of the strip miner using that Crystal by 20%, but it increases the chance of damaging the crystal by 20% as well. A Diffuse script does the opposite, reducing range by 20%, but making the Crystal last 20% longer. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
Sir Substance Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp	Posted - 2009.02.19 13:50:00 - [25] Originally by: Alphonze Tleilaxu When I mine solo in my hulk i get bored quickly and usually only end up with 2 or 3 loads before I dock and log. This would be something that could keep me doing something and getting more profit myself :) a) this is just a size reduction, it will take the same time to mine it. the profit increase will be negligible. b) if you think mining is boring now, just wait until you feel you have to play a repetitive minigame.
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2009.02.19 13:52:00 - [26] Originally by: Sir Substance Originally by: Alphonze Tleilaxu When I mine solo in my hulk i get bored quickly and usually only end up with 2 or 3 loads before I dock and log. This would be something that could keep me doing something and getting more profit myself :) a) this is just a size reduction, it will take the same time to mine it. the profit increase will be negligible. b) if you think mining is boring now, just wait until you feel you have to play a repetitive minigame. Each asteroid will have different veins, maybe the occasional 1% chance of finding a little bit of low-sec/0.0 minerals in a roid can be added as well. If you don't like it, the whole thing is optional. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.19 14:49:00 - [27] Same or similar idea i posted a year or two back, so i endorse ofcourse My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2009.02.19 14:51:00 - [28] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Same or similar idea i posted a year or two back, so i endorse ofcourse Wasn't in EVE yet two years ago (can't they invent a time machine so I can go back to myself in 2003 and get EVE then) so I wouldn't know ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.19 14:53:00 - [29] Look here for my idea. Jsut as well, it's similar so we just want same things My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2009.02.19 14:55:00 - [30] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Look here for my idea. Jsut as well, it's similar so we just want same things Well you know what they say about great minds ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...

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