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Why decreasing Tritanium will solve alot of other issues

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SlightlyMad	Posted - 2004.07.22 20:26:00 - [61] Edited by: SlightlyMad on 22/07/2004 20:32:03 Edited by: SlightlyMad on 22/07/2004 20:29:06 omg.. another "I know all the stuff".. Your post contains many mathematical and logical/practical errors. This for instance: Originally by: Hanse Davion I don't mind that Mega is 8K and Zyd 5K. What I do mind is that someone mining Arknor is getting 250 Trit on top of the Mega, Zyd, and Morphite. That is 1/3 of the amount of mining just the Veldspar. No its not. Per minute of mining, you get at least 300 times more trit if you mine veld. Thats right. In one day of veldespar mining, you get as much trit as if you mined arkonor for almost a year You want to "solve" a problem by using a warped way of reasoning. The problem is a roidgrowth algorithm that defy common sense. That is the problem. And if it needs to be solved, then thats what should be tinkered with. * -"You know, we play the "good guys" right? We kill pirates, griefers, retards and general subversive elements in the EVE-Community. To the rest, we are friendly and always prepared to help out. Peo
SlightlyMad	Posted - 2004.07.22 20:26:00 - [62] Edited by: SlightlyMad on 22/07/2004 20:32:03 Edited by: SlightlyMad on 22/07/2004 20:29:06 omg.. another "I know all the stuff".. Your post contains many mathematical and logical/practical errors. This for instance: Originally by: Hanse Davion I don't mind that Mega is 8K and Zyd 5K. What I do mind is that someone mining Arknor is getting 250 Trit on top of the Mega, Zyd, and Morphite. That is 1/3 of the amount of mining just the Veldspar. No its not. Per minute of mining, you get at least 300 times more trit if you mine veld. Thats right. In one day of veldespar mining, you get as much trit as if you mined arkonor for almost a year You want to "solve" a problem by using a warped way of reasoning. The problem is a roidgrowth algorithm that defy common sense. That is the problem. And if it needs to be solved, then thats what should be tinkered with. * -"You know, we play the "good guys" right? We kill pirates, griefers, retards and general subversive elements in the EVE-Community. To the rest, we are friendly and always prepared to help out. Peo
Balthial Ashaere	Posted - 2004.07.22 21:04:00 - [63] Hanse... Great idea overall. That's about it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Convergent Corporation - Infinite Opportunities; One Future!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Convergent Mining Division - Refining The Foundation Of The Future!" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balthial Ashaere	Posted - 2004.07.22 21:04:00 - [64] Hanse... Great idea overall. That's about it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Convergent Corporation - Infinite Opportunities; One Future!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Convergent Mining Division - Refining The Foundation Of The Future!" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Redan Chulipa	Posted - 2004.07.22 21:05:00 - [65] Edited by: Redan Chulipa on 22/07/2004 21:15:29 There's nothing to say there won't be items such as titans and stations requiring such vast amounts of tritanium that veldspar mining in 0.0 will become a must without a nerf being called for.
Redan Chulipa	Posted - 2004.07.22 21:05:00 - [66] Edited by: Redan Chulipa on 22/07/2004 21:15:29 There's nothing to say there won't be items such as titans and stations requiring such vast amounts of tritanium that veldspar mining in 0.0 will become a must without a nerf being called for.
Amarr Agent	Posted - 2004.07.22 22:05:00 - [67] Edited by: Amarr Agent on 22/07/2004 22:06:31 Originally by: StinkFinger Got it now, jack? [/quote He always had it, D1ck. Have you paid off your trailer yet?
Amarr Agent	Posted - 2004.07.22 22:05:00 - [68] Edited by: Amarr Agent on 22/07/2004 22:06:31 Originally by: StinkFinger Got it now, jack? [/quote He always had it, D1ck. Have you paid off your trailer yet?
Mei Mei	Posted - 2004.07.22 23:23:00 - [69] Yeah, it will be hysterical how many mins you will need to build stations and titans. Makes it worth it to just create a TITAN - search & destroy armada. ------------------------------ Homer: Don't you have school? Bart: Don't you have work? Homer: Touche ------------------------------
Mei Mei	Posted - 2004.07.22 23:23:00 - [70] Yeah, it will be hysterical how many mins you will need to build stations and titans. Makes it worth it to just create a TITAN - search & destroy armada. ------------------------------ Homer: Don't you have school? Bart: Don't you have work? Homer: Touche ------------------------------
StinkFinger	Posted - 2004.07.22 23:53:00 - [71] Originally by: SlightlyMad Edited by: SlightlyMad on 22/07/2004 20:32:03 Edited by: SlightlyMad on 22/07/2004 20:29:06 omg.. another "I know all the stuff".. Your post contains many mathematical and logical/practical errors. This for instance: Originally by: Hanse Davion I don't mind that Mega is 8K and Zyd 5K. What I do mind is that someone mining Arknor is getting 250 Trit on top of the Mega, Zyd, and Morphite. That is 1/3 of the amount of mining just the Veldspar. No its not. Per minute of mining, you get at least 300 times more trit if you mine veld. Thats right. In one day of veldespar mining, you get as much trit as if you mined arkonor for almost a year You want to "solve" a problem by using a warped way of reasoning. The problem is a roidgrowth algorithm that defy common sense. That is the problem. And if it needs to be solved, then thats what should be tinkered with. It's 160 times, not 300 (actually less when you take into account the refine batch). --
StinkFinger	Posted - 2004.07.22 23:53:00 - [72] Originally by: SlightlyMad Edited by: SlightlyMad on 22/07/2004 20:32:03 Edited by: SlightlyMad on 22/07/2004 20:29:06 omg.. another "I know all the stuff".. Your post contains many mathematical and logical/practical errors. This for instance: Originally by: Hanse Davion I don't mind that Mega is 8K and Zyd 5K. What I do mind is that someone mining Arknor is getting 250 Trit on top of the Mega, Zyd, and Morphite. That is 1/3 of the amount of mining just the Veldspar. No its not. Per minute of mining, you get at least 300 times more trit if you mine veld. Thats right. In one day of veldespar mining, you get as much trit as if you mined arkonor for almost a year You want to "solve" a problem by using a warped way of reasoning. The problem is a roidgrowth algorithm that defy common sense. That is the problem. And if it needs to be solved, then thats what should be tinkered with. It's 160 times, not 300 (actually less when you take into account the refine batch). --
Ris Dnalor	Posted - 2004.07.23 00:03:00 - [73] Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 23/07/2004 00:09:24 While it may defy common sense the way the roid respawn is set it would allow someone to culture a belt by "weeding out" the veldspar for a period of time allowing the other ore-types to keep spawning larger & larger. This would take some work but in the end you could have a very nicely tended garden of rocks. Of course the first time you harvested the fruits of your labors the balance would begin to tip the other way.... Not to mention protecting your rock garden from nasty miners ;) -- Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
Ris Dnalor	Posted - 2004.07.23 00:03:00 - [74] Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 23/07/2004 00:09:24 While it may defy common sense the way the roid respawn is set it would allow someone to culture a belt by "weeding out" the veldspar for a period of time allowing the other ore-types to keep spawning larger & larger. This would take some work but in the end you could have a very nicely tended garden of rocks. Of course the first time you harvested the fruits of your labors the balance would begin to tip the other way.... Not to mention protecting your rock garden from nasty miners ;) -- Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
John Bishop	Posted - 2004.07.23 01:51:00 - [75] im gonna simplafy this down for some of you who dont under stand. 75% of eve players do not mine veldspar for one reason, there is no money in it. if you are going to build battlships as your bread and butter you fall in the 25% of eve players. now take a tour of the galaxy and find me an asteroid belt that has no veldspar roids in it. you cant find me a belt that isnt dominated by hughe giagantinc asteroid belts in lower than .7 space. you cant. what this man is trying to say is there is more than enough veldspar to provide tritainium for production needs that trit shuould only come from veldspar. by doing this people will need to mine the veld right along with all the rest to keep up production. this is a good thing planet size roids will cease to exist. trit will become slightly more valuable and some equipment prices will go up, making eves economy that much stronger. it will also provide a nich for those miners who would willingly mine only veld. allaround good idea, at least to me flame on _______________________________________________ sorry for the spelling and gramtic errors,,, im a redneck cowboy what did you expect anyways????
John Bishop	Posted - 2004.07.23 01:51:00 - [76] im gonna simplafy this down for some of you who dont under stand. 75% of eve players do not mine veldspar for one reason, there is no money in it. if you are going to build battlships as your bread and butter you fall in the 25% of eve players. now take a tour of the galaxy and find me an asteroid belt that has no veldspar roids in it. you cant find me a belt that isnt dominated by hughe giagantinc asteroid belts in lower than .7 space. you cant. what this man is trying to say is there is more than enough veldspar to provide tritainium for production needs that trit shuould only come from veldspar. by doing this people will need to mine the veld right along with all the rest to keep up production. this is a good thing planet size roids will cease to exist. trit will become slightly more valuable and some equipment prices will go up, making eves economy that much stronger. it will also provide a nich for those miners who would willingly mine only veld. allaround good idea, at least to me flame on _______________________________________________ sorry for the spelling and gramtic errors,,, im a redneck cowboy what did you expect anyways????
MatStar	Posted - 2004.07.23 02:26:00 - [77] Edited by: MatStar on 23/07/2004 02:35:51 ok....so lets say its changed that only veld gives trit While im npc hunting i gather all the loot dropped by frigs/cruisers/bs's even if its rubbish, I take all this to a refinery and repro it. I normally get 4mil+ trit 1mil+ py 500k+ mex and lots of the other minerals including zyd and mega. I dont need to mine veld in 0.0 coz i get all the low end i need from loot repro.. So unless u plan on nerfing loot reproing aswell, making veld the only trit giving ore will achieve nothing. This issue to with loot tables being "jacked" i really dont see a problem, i laugh when people complain about a npc bs dropping a 1mn ab, ever think he mite of been carrying it in his cargo.... Its all luck with loot, one day i got 2 named tachs made me 60mil the next day i didnt get anything nice do i mind? no....
MatStar	Posted - 2004.07.23 02:26:00 - [78] Edited by: MatStar on 23/07/2004 02:35:51 ok....so lets say its changed that only veld gives trit While im npc hunting i gather all the loot dropped by frigs/cruisers/bs's even if its rubbish, I take all this to a refinery and repro it. I normally get 4mil+ trit 1mil+ py 500k+ mex and lots of the other minerals including zyd and mega. I dont need to mine veld in 0.0 coz i get all the low end i need from loot repro.. So unless u plan on nerfing loot reproing aswell, making veld the only trit giving ore will achieve nothing. This issue to with loot tables being "jacked" i really dont see a problem, i laugh when people complain about a npc bs dropping a 1mn ab, ever think he mite of been carrying it in his cargo.... Its all luck with loot, one day i got 2 named tachs made me 60mil the next day i didnt get anything nice do i mind? no....
Anatolius	Posted - 2004.07.23 02:30:00 - [79] Originally by: John Bishop now take a tour of the galaxy and find me an asteroid belt that has no veldspar roids in it. you cant find me a belt that isnt dominated by hughe giagantinc asteroid belts in lower than .7 space. you cant. I can rarely find a belt anywhere without basic ore 'roids (veld, scord, pyro/plag/other regional stuff) in it. But as far as veldspar goes, there are plenty of belts with small rocks equivalent to the size of everything else in the belt - at worse, slightly larger. Frankly, I don't see what the problem is at all, on any side. Tritanium is too expensive? EVE's economy is player driven. Get off your arse and go mine some veldspar or other high-yield trit ores, or pay the price. Asteroids are too big? Move to a different system - there's tons of systems, you know. Or get off your arse and pop the roids like the big festering tritanium pimples they are. Want to make more money carting veldspar around? Great, and I'd like a battleship delivered to my hangar on the first of every month. We can't always get what we want. --- Having recently acquired a lab slot (thank you, rental bug), I wholeheartily concur, there's absolutely no problem with lab slots!
Anatolius	Posted - 2004.07.23 02:30:00 - [80] Originally by: John Bishop now take a tour of the galaxy and find me an asteroid belt that has no veldspar roids in it. you cant find me a belt that isnt dominated by hughe giagantinc asteroid belts in lower than .7 space. you cant. I can rarely find a belt anywhere without basic ore 'roids (veld, scord, pyro/plag/other regional stuff) in it. But as far as veldspar goes, there are plenty of belts with small rocks equivalent to the size of everything else in the belt - at worse, slightly larger. Frankly, I don't see what the problem is at all, on any side. Tritanium is too expensive? EVE's economy is player driven. Get off your arse and go mine some veldspar or other high-yield trit ores, or pay the price. Asteroids are too big? Move to a different system - there's tons of systems, you know. Or get off your arse and pop the roids like the big festering tritanium pimples they are. Want to make more money carting veldspar around? Great, and I'd like a battleship delivered to my hangar on the first of every month. We can't always get what we want. --- Having recently acquired a lab slot (thank you, rental bug), I wholeheartily concur, there's absolutely no problem with lab slots!
Armaki Kalear	Posted - 2004.07.23 03:05:00 - [81] Edited by: Armaki Kalear on 23/07/2004 03:18:15 My opinion is based on some numbers. People may disagree with these numbers. It is impossible to choose a set of numbers that will satisfy all players. People may also dispute the availability of a particular ore in a given security status. My response is that the list below is largely accurate and is supported by the market values of both the ores and the minerals. I think there is not enough variety in ore value. I attribute this to the lack of difference between areas the ores are located. There are 11 possible security statuses yet I can put all ores into three bands of difficulty to access. Actually I'll be generous and say 4 bands. Now the numbers... Tritanium 1.5 Pyerite 5.3 Mexallon 14 Isogen 68 Nocxium 325 Zydrine 4500 Megacyte 6600 Now the ores. The only meaningful value is isk per cubic metre because a) miners extract ore at a cubic metre per time rate b) because haluing ore is defined by cubic metre. Let's assume the refiner is getting 100% return because it's as realistic return. Veldspar 45.05 Scordite 70.40 Pyroxeres 68.41 Plagioclase 57.33 Omber 73.29 Kernite 78.44 Jaspet 93.19 Hemophrite 92.83 Gneiss 397.74 Dark Ochre 360.71 Crokite 772.89 Bistot 830.44 Arkonor 916.92 Now let's consider ore available by security status. 1.0-0.7 This difficulty represents noob mining space, areas where you can mine with little to no NPC pirate activity. Ores: Veldspar, Scordite, Pyroxeres, Plagioclase Value range: 57 to 70 isk per cubic metre. 0.6-0.5 These systems will require some effort to be spent on NPC defence. A lone miner might sacrifice his mining drones for combat drones, or hire a player as an escort which slightly reduces mining profitability. Ores: Omber, Kernite. Value range: 73 to 78 isk per cubic metre. 0.4-0.1 Crossing this threshold opens you to response from pvpers without the protection of CONCORD. It also scales up NPC pirate response. Ores: Jaspet, Hemophrite, Hedbergite. Value range: 93 to 108 isk per cubic metre. 0.0 Not all 0.0 has access to the ores below, but this is the only place they can be found. They are usually guarded by player alliances. NPC hostility is also quite high. Ores: Gniess, Dark Ochre, Crokite, Bistot, Arkonor. Value range: 770-920 isk per cubic metre. I would further venture that since all minerals are available by mining in EITHER 1.0-0.5 OR 0.0 the far greater majority of miners are either getting between 50 and 100 isk per cubic metre or they are getting over 700 isk per cubic metre. Of course this does not factor in ore transportation in 0.0 space, but that's highly subjective. To correct this, I would like to see: Greater variety of threats and consequences in each of the 11 rankings of security status. Greater variety of ores and minerals to help reduce the granularity. Changing the concentrations of minerals in all current ores. -- Top 5 corporation improvements as requested by CEOÆs
Armaki Kalear	Posted - 2004.07.23 03:05:00 - [82] Edited by: Armaki Kalear on 23/07/2004 03:18:15 My opinion is based on some numbers. People may disagree with these numbers. It is impossible to choose a set of numbers that will satisfy all players. People may also dispute the availability of a particular ore in a given security status. My response is that the list below is largely accurate and is supported by the market values of both the ores and the minerals. I think there is not enough variety in ore value. I attribute this to the lack of difference between areas the ores are located. There are 11 possible security statuses yet I can put all ores into three bands of difficulty to access. Actually I'll be generous and say 4 bands. Now the numbers... Tritanium 1.5 Pyerite 5.3 Mexallon 14 Isogen 68 Nocxium 325 Zydrine 4500 Megacyte 6600 Now the ores. The only meaningful value is isk per cubic metre because a) miners extract ore at a cubic metre per time rate b) because haluing ore is defined by cubic metre. Let's assume the refiner is getting 100% return because it's as realistic return. Veldspar 45.05 Scordite 70.40 Pyroxeres 68.41 Plagioclase 57.33 Omber 73.29 Kernite 78.44 Jaspet 93.19 Hemophrite 92.83 Gneiss 397.74 Dark Ochre 360.71 Crokite 772.89 Bistot 830.44 Arkonor 916.92 Now let's consider ore available by security status. 1.0-0.7 This difficulty represents noob mining space, areas where you can mine with little to no NPC pirate activity. Ores: Veldspar, Scordite, Pyroxeres, Plagioclase Value range: 57 to 70 isk per cubic metre. 0.6-0.5 These systems will require some effort to be spent on NPC defence. A lone miner might sacrifice his mining drones for combat drones, or hire a player as an escort which slightly reduces mining profitability. Ores: Omber, Kernite. Value range: 73 to 78 isk per cubic metre. 0.4-0.1 Crossing this threshold opens you to response from pvpers without the protection of CONCORD. It also scales up NPC pirate response. Ores: Jaspet, Hemophrite, Hedbergite. Value range: 93 to 108 isk per cubic metre. 0.0 Not all 0.0 has access to the ores below, but this is the only place they can be found. They are usually guarded by player alliances. NPC hostility is also quite high. Ores: Gniess, Dark Ochre, Crokite, Bistot, Arkonor. Value range: 770-920 isk per cubic metre. I would further venture that since all minerals are available by mining in EITHER 1.0-0.5 OR 0.0 the far greater majority of miners are either getting between 50 and 100 isk per cubic metre or they are getting over 700 isk per cubic metre. Of course this does not factor in ore transportation in 0.0 space, but that's highly subjective. To correct this, I would like to see: Greater variety of threats and consequences in each of the 11 rankings of security status. Greater variety of ores and minerals to help reduce the granularity. Changing the concentrations of minerals in all current ores. -- Top 5 corporation improvements as requested by CEOÆs
Iece Quaan	Posted - 2004.07.23 03:41:00 - [83] Originally by: Hanse Davion 2) Most items require about 1/3 to 1/2 mins to be Trit., yet it is the least sought after ore? Its not the least sought after ore. It's bought in the highest volume so the price is lower than any other ore. You need trit just as much as mega to build ships. You could have all the mega in the universe, and you wouldn't be able to build jack **** without trit. The fact that it's so common and it's going for over 2 isk per unit in some places shows quite distinctly that it's in heavy demand. --------
Iece Quaan	Posted - 2004.07.23 03:41:00 - [84] Originally by: Hanse Davion 2) Most items require about 1/3 to 1/2 mins to be Trit., yet it is the least sought after ore? Its not the least sought after ore. It's bought in the highest volume so the price is lower than any other ore. You need trit just as much as mega to build ships. You could have all the mega in the universe, and you wouldn't be able to build jack **** without trit. The fact that it's so common and it's going for over 2 isk per unit in some places shows quite distinctly that it's in heavy demand. --------
Armaki Kalear	Posted - 2004.07.23 04:04:00 - [85] Some of the things in this thread surprise me. Why anybody would mine an ore that was less valuable than any other ore they can access is just plain silly. Say I need Tritanium. I would rather mine Hedbergite, sell it and buy the Tritanium. If I mined Hedbergite for 1 hour I would have to mine Scordite for one and a half hours to make an equal amount. Lastly, in response to Iece Quaan: Based on the values I posted just above, Tritanium would have to jump to 3.4 isk a piece before it was equal in value to Scordite. Wherever Veldspar is available, so is Scordite (unless it's recently been strip mined). I am amazed that there are any market transactions for Veldspar. -- Top 5 corporation improvements as requested by CEOÆs
Armaki Kalear	Posted - 2004.07.23 04:04:00 - [86] Some of the things in this thread surprise me. Why anybody would mine an ore that was less valuable than any other ore they can access is just plain silly. Say I need Tritanium. I would rather mine Hedbergite, sell it and buy the Tritanium. If I mined Hedbergite for 1 hour I would have to mine Scordite for one and a half hours to make an equal amount. Lastly, in response to Iece Quaan: Based on the values I posted just above, Tritanium would have to jump to 3.4 isk a piece before it was equal in value to Scordite. Wherever Veldspar is available, so is Scordite (unless it's recently been strip mined). I am amazed that there are any market transactions for Veldspar. -- Top 5 corporation improvements as requested by CEOÆs
WhiteTiger	Posted - 2004.07.23 04:15:00 - [87] So the general idea here is to make trit more rare which will naturally increase the price. The result is afk indy miners and macro miners can get more isk for their non-effort of mining Veld in secure space. Now why is this a great idea?
WhiteTiger	Posted - 2004.07.23 04:15:00 - [88] So the general idea here is to make trit more rare which will naturally increase the price. The result is afk indy miners and macro miners can get more isk for their non-effort of mining Veld in secure space. Now why is this a great idea?
Adriana	Posted - 2004.07.23 06:02:00 - [89] You want to get rid of Veldspar? Really? Heres an idea, add 1 unit of zydrine to the refine. Problem solved, tritanium prices drop like mad, zydrine balance is implemented, and everything gets happy. Still won't make people mine it in 0.0 but it will clear out the belts in empire. Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -Napoleon Bonaparte
Adriana	Posted - 2004.07.23 06:02:00 - [90] You want to get rid of Veldspar? Really? Heres an idea, add 1 unit of zydrine to the refine. Problem solved, tritanium prices drop like mad, zydrine balance is implemented, and everything gets happy. Still won't make people mine it in 0.0 but it will clear out the belts in empire. Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -Napoleon Bonaparte

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