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Olleybear
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.12.30 03:12:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Milla Jovo
I moved to the next belt and with in 5 min. they are mining the belt im in with no regard... It's things like this that will bring down EVE nuff said
I once knew a guy that mined in a hi-sec system all day. Then a corp came in and started stripping the belts he loved. This person became aggravated at what he considered rude behavior, afterall he was there first.
He didn't complain on the forums. He took responsibility.
His response was to fit a smartbombing BS with his alt. It only took him doing this one time with the corp taking a loss of 6 or 7 mining barges and 5 or so pods. His system was once again his and his alone.
Defend your space, or sit back/do nothing and lose it.
<<< From one warrior to another: Whether you fight with me or against me, the willingness to fight makes us brothers. >>> |
Concorduck
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.30 03:12:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Dantes Revenge
Originally by: Ecnav I figure that once all the hi sec ore is mined out, low sec will suddenly become an option.
then things get interesting.
Dream on.
There is no such thing as an isk loss being an option. CCP would have to vastly increase the Zydrine content of Jaspet and Hemorphite before it makes lowsec mining viable. 8 for Jaspet and 28 for Hemorphite means:
4K of jaspet = 8K m3 or a full hold for a hulk. 500 refine units and 8 untis of zyd on each refine with perfect refining. That gives 64 Zydrine per full cargo of a hulk.
2666 units of Hemorphite = 7998m3. Also 500 units with 28 units of zyd for each refine. That equates to 140 units of zyd for each hulk load.
Call it 5 minutes with bonuses to fill the hold. 768 zyd per hour for Jaspet and 1680 for Hemorphite. An average over estimate of Zyd prices now, call it 2500 isk gives you 160K isk/hour for Japset and 4 million per hour for Hemorphite. Maybe double that including the other minerals.
Now take away costs for protection since your PVP protection are not going to work for nothing, let's say 20% since you would logically have more miners than protection to make it profitable. Even for Hemorphite, that just over 6 million per hour per hulk.
Given the extreme amount of risk from lowsec piracy, I'd say most would start running missions in highsec instead, lvl4's including bounties are about as profitable as that per hour.
It would need a significant boost to high end mineral yields to make it an option.
Military Experts are calling this a math-full post.
Thanks god Crokite is still there. -----------------------------------------
Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
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Gridwalker
Amarr Divine Power. KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.30 04:13:00 -
[33]
No one is going into low-sec to mine. Low-sec ore is almost valueless compared to high-sec ore. Sad, but true. And increasing the amount of mid-range minerals in low-sec ore can't solve the problem.
CCP put so much emphasis on tritanium and pyerite in production, that big time producers can go through hundreds of millions of units of each a week. Even the macros can't keep up with demand. Mid and high end mineral requirements, however, can nearly be completely covered by reprocessing loot.
Personally, I believe the only thing that can solve the problem is if CCP rebalances the minerals needed for production. Slash the requirements for low-end minerals and increase the requirements for mid and high end minerals proportionate to rarity. This won't shift the production cost significantly, but it will ease up pressure on the low-ends and allow the supply to catch back up with demand. Meanwhile, the mid and high end markets will improve, allowing low-sec ores to regain their proper position and be worthwhile to mine again.
I'm just saying, there is a much bigger picture here. No one should be able to get rich mining Veldspar. Not even Chribba.
-Grid
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Malarkie
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Posted - 2008.12.30 04:22:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Gridwalker No one is going into low-sec to mine. Low-sec ore is almost valueless compared to high-sec ore. Sad, but true. And increasing the amount of mid-range minerals in low-sec ore can't solve the problem.
CCP put so much emphasis on tritanium and pyerite in production, that big time producers can go through hundreds of millions of units of each a week. Even the macros can't keep up with demand. Mid and high end mineral requirements, however, can nearly be completely covered by reprocessing loot.
Personally, I believe the only thing that can solve the problem is if CCP rebalances the minerals needed for production. Slash the requirements for low-end minerals and increase the requirements for mid and high end minerals proportionate to rarity. This won't shift the production cost significantly, but it will ease up pressure on the low-ends and allow the supply to catch back up with demand. Meanwhile, the mid and high end markets will improve, allowing low-sec ores to regain their proper position and be worthwhile to mine again.
I'm just saying, there is a much bigger picture here. No one should be able to get rich mining Veldspar. Not even Chribba.
-Grid
Anyone know the requirements for Tech3 yet?
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Breaker77
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Posted - 2008.12.30 04:28:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Boetox So now all those belts that have been left to them selves are being striped. Let's see what happens to the market for minerals. My guess is a price drop since supply will out weight demand.
Dream on. With Orcas being in such high demand and almost no supply as they are sold as soon as they go on the market this won't happen. Considering it takes almost 49 million units of trit to make 1 Orca, thats a lot of Veld that needs to be mined. Maybe in 6 months when every alt and his alt has one then it the demand might go down some, but don't count on it.
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.30 04:29:00 -
[36]
/me undocks in her normal high sec mining system and warps around spying belts full of yummy ore to mine with a couple of randoms in local. Maybe move away from the starter systems?
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Concorduck
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.30 04:31:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Zeba /me undocks in her normal high sec mining system and warps around spying belts full of yummy ore to mine with a couple of randoms in local. Maybe move away from the starter systems?
ARE YOU CRAZY?
IT'S DANGEROUS TO GO ANYWHERE BELOW 0.9! -----------------------------------------
Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
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rValdez5987
Amarr 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.
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Posted - 2008.12.30 04:58:00 -
[38]
Originally by: WA Dragon
Originally by: Malarkie
btw: this was an orca thread and you actually managed to try and twist it into a missile nerf whine.
Its a missile twist now I just used that as an example you took it to the extream nice twist on the twist you twisting twister.
FLAME ON
WHAT A TWIST!
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.30 04:59:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Warspawn Really, those that can afford Orcas can afford to mine in low sec and leave the stuff .5 and above to folks mining to advance their character. Let Coveters, Procurers, Retrievers mine in hi sec, let the rest venture out to where there's a bit of risk involved. If you've made it to Orcas and Hulks, I'm sure you can afford to make some friends in areas to mine in, or hire them. Of course if you're an isk farmer that wants to afk/Macro mine in hi-sec, I can see why you'd be opposed to this idea.
Even wrap it up in a story about how Concord forbids the larger ships like Hulks and Orcas from polluting hi-sec space with the debris from their operations. Smaller ships have less impact on the environment near larger population areas...
Glad you think it's that easy - anyone that can afford a Hulk can afford to hire guards that don't help (if they can be found), or can just "make friends" in low sec (yeah, right - you don't hang out there much, do you?). Of course the only people that would want to mine in a reasonably safe area are isk farmers - everyone else is more than willing to continually risk 100mil+ isk ships. Can you say "sitting ducks"? I knew you could. Seriously, the only people that that would assume that everyone should be forced to take such risk in a defenseless ship are gankbears.
I hope that CCP really isn't reducing the asteroid spawns; unless inflation is one of their goals, they won't. Besides, the several people that have mentioned mining missions and gravimetric sites are absolutely right.
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cesar medina
La Familia's Safehouse La Familia.
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Posted - 2008.12.30 05:02:00 -
[40]
I like mining but atm Im mission running it pays out the same ether way Till you go in to 0.0 then you making big isk lol but sadly I got no 0.0 access so rails and blaster AWAY I'm so sexy it feels so wrong to be me :P |
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BluNereid
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Posted - 2008.12.30 05:45:00 -
[41]
Some people seem to believe that you must find the system with the most belts, or with lowest security setting. Those systems are depleted faster than you can say "respawn", and they are littered with can flippers.
With tritanium prices the way they are, you can mine anywhere in hi-sec. Find a nice system with only a few belts, and mine it to your hearts content. Just mine all the veldespar and scordite in there, which you can find anywhere. If you clear it out, just find another system close by. There are plenty of systems out there that rarely have miners in it.
Generally, you don't even need to worry about hauling, you can just setup a sell order, or even fill a buy order. If you put enough trit up for sale, someone will buy it.
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.12.30 06:03:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Goyda I still say that any asteroid that is depleted shoudn't respawn for 1 week. Unless it is a gravimetric site.
Won't that make carebear life more interesting. :)
I agree!! ------------
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
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masternerdguy
Gallente Gate Control Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.30 06:06:00 -
[43]
scan down a grav site.... nuff said.
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McFly
C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.30 06:09:00 -
[44]
McFly's Ultimate Guide to Finding good mining systems......
1.) move out of caldari space. 2.) find a semi decent belt count 5+ but not ridiculous like 25 because it'll be crowded 3.) look at the map and find the back end systems, the stationless side routes and etc. 4.) for best effect plant pos with corp hangars and ship arrays and freighter to refinery 5.) roids spawn twice a week, so mine and haul until stripped including adjacent systems.
While I was preparing for the Orca BPO release, I mined two systems bare with a few corp mates, 5x Hulks, 1x mining link vulture, 2x rigged itty V's. Nothings different with the addition of the orca, except there's less hulk's moving around the belts (range link) and a little higher yield (reduction link).
I'll give you a pointer tho, I was flying through Tash Murkon (region not system) and all the belts were full and no one seemed to be mining them... Now I don't know if that's just becuase no one's gotten to it yet... but the Hulk/Orca/IttyV Ops usually are hitting on all cylinders right after an ore spawn so might wanna check that area out guys.
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Gridwalker
Amarr Divine Power. KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.30 06:15:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Malarkie Anyone know the requirements for Tech3 yet?
No, just rumors that it involves... ugh... stuff found in exploration sites.
If it involves a lot of mid and high end minerals, and T3 doesn't actually suck, that may very well help balance things out.
If CCP doesn't want to make sweeping changes to the ratios of minerals in existing blueprints, then T3 could very well be a good way for them to boost low-sec mining and MAYBE entice folks out there. As it stands, I wouldn't mine in low-sec even if my ship was invincible. It just isn't worth it. There is still plenty of rock in high sec space for those willing to look for it.
-Grid
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Technomagez
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.30 07:17:00 -
[46]
Originally by: WA Dragon has there been a patch note i have misse where empier belts no longer reaspawn? or has the Orca killed all the mining off I mean even belts that usualy go igorned such as belts in systems with no station even those and gone now Has the Orca had such a masive effect on the mining in eve?
It's the holidays man, everyone is at home, everyone has got time to mine all day long, so the belts just depleat faster than usual.
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Ocih
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.12.30 07:29:00 -
[47]
I don't think the Orca was the monster under the bed.
A number of medium size alliances were driven out of 0.0 sec over the last few months. Where else are they supposed to go if not back to high sec? Start a new character, listen to the Neocron. Mine ore to make money.. it's pretty much what we have. |
Captain Politics
JotunHeim Hird X13 Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.30 09:26:00 -
[48]
Actually there is no need to increase the amount of belts. There is plenty of L4 missions that has plenty of Omber and Veld in them. These will spawn on your command so the amount of ore is unlimited.
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Shintai
Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.12.30 09:55:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Gridwalker No one is going into low-sec to mine. Low-sec ore is almost valueless compared to high-sec ore. Sad, but true. And increasing the amount of mid-range minerals in low-sec ore can't solve the problem.
CCP put so much emphasis on tritanium and pyerite in production, that big time producers can go through hundreds of millions of units of each a week. Even the macros can't keep up with demand. Mid and high end mineral requirements, however, can nearly be completely covered by reprocessing loot.
Personally, I believe the only thing that can solve the problem is if CCP rebalances the minerals needed for production. Slash the requirements for low-end minerals and increase the requirements for mid and high end minerals proportionate to rarity. This won't shift the production cost significantly, but it will ease up pressure on the low-ends and allow the supply to catch back up with demand. Meanwhile, the mid and high end markets will improve, allowing low-sec ores to regain their proper position and be worthwhile to mine again.
I'm just saying, there is a much bigger picture here. No one should be able to get rich mining Veldspar. Not even Chribba.
-Grid
Macroers do ice, not ore.
--------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.30 10:14:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Shintai Macroers do ice, not ore.
Something seems off about that logic. Hmmmm.. Lets see, lots of people need pos fuel in this game and pos fuel comes from ice. Now checking the map there is a distinct rarity of ice belts compared to the ubiquitous roid belts especially in safe high sec. Add in the fac that a legit miner and a macro miner both look exactly the same as effeciency cares not for whos pressing the buttons. Now think about the effect of having a much needed commodity needed by tens of thousands of pos all concentrated in a literal handfull of places where it can be aquired. Now do you understand why every ice belt is overflowing with mining ops running 23/7 as Eve is a worldwide game with major activity at all times. Are some of the miners macros? Probably. Are the vast majority? Of course not or CCP would have pwnd them ages ago since they are all concentrated and easy to observe.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
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Bloss0m
Caldari Industrial death
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Posted - 2008.12.30 11:12:00 -
[51]
I think the lack of highsec belts right now is due to several factors already mentioned in this thread. Orcas allowing for easier and more efficient mining, the holidays (everyone is home) and the 5 day reactivation promotion from CCP means everyone has brought their hauling and mining alts online they let go.
Things should get better in the short term but its a preview of whats to come as eve grows and space (in highsec particularly) buckles under the amount of people there. Most miners aren't going to go to low sec...its just not worth it (right now). Might as well go run missions or if your going to take that kinda risk go ninja rat in null sec it will be much safer than trying to mine in low sec.
As it stands though there are still systems in highsec that are in decent shape asteroid wise, and as others have stated you have exploration (limited supply and a pain in the ass) or mission sites to get ore. Its just that all of the above require people to do more than undock and warp to a field...requires a little work (shutter).
Mining needs a looking at and from what I saw on the fanfest videos ccp seems to be aware of this and hopefully they will make this boring profession (some enjoy it go figure) more engaging and fun. That or they can just add a bunch of highsec systems with no station and let the orca and hulk pilots go wild.
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Xanduz
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Posted - 2008.12.30 11:31:00 -
[52]
All this will be a distant memmory WHEN systemwide asteroid belts become a reality.
Go go go CCP, make it happen sooner than planed! Online since late 2003 with main.
Good and bad with EVE today... 2008
Good: Hmm, seriosly I can't think of anything that's better now than in 2005 what most bugs where gone and stacking nerf w |
Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.30 11:35:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Bloss0m Things should get better in the short term but its a preview of whats to come as eve grows and space (in highsec particularly) buckles under the amount of people there. Most miners aren't going to go to low sec...its just not worth it (right now). Might as well go run missions or if your going to take that kinda risk go ninja rat in null sec it will be much safer than trying to mine in low sec.
The part bolded in red is exactly what you should be doing if you are a miner. Go to a system that has a few level 1~3 kill agents and set up your mining op. Have your refining character come and accept as many missions as possible and run them or have a combat alt run them so when they are completed he gets good standing with the corp and a better refining yield. If a mission has ore go mine it and if not turn it in and accept another. As your miners are draining one mission dry your refiner is setting up other fully stocked deadspace protected mining ops all the day long with noone to bother you.
But yeah that takes organization and effort so I probably just wasted a few minutes of life on my keyboard typing it out.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
MercenaryMuffin
Soul Ripper Consortium
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Posted - 2008.12.30 11:48:00 -
[54]
It's not hard to find a good, solid system full of ore. I've spent more time than I'd like to admit as a miner (I even have a Hulk), and I've learned to find good systems. It just takes a little time.
You want to look for a system that is 5-6 jumps off of the main travel lanes. That way, it'll most likely be populated by only a few people. Try to avoid systems that have ice (unless you wanna harvest ice for whatever reason), as they're most likely full of macros and at least one mining corp. Same deal for systems with lots of belts...5-10 is a good amount, any higher and you'll get mining corps sucking the belts dry. Systems that don't have any stations are even more likely to be devoid of players, so if you don't mind hauling your ore through a jump gate, you'll get lots of ore with no competition.
Or...you could just run missions with your missioning boat, kill the rats, and mine the 'roids there. I've seen low-sec ore (Omber) in Level 3 missions, and Jaspet in Level 4s.
Of course, I just stopped mining all together when I saw that I made more money in 30 minutes from a L4 mission than I did from 2 hours of mining. Much easier to fund my part-time yarring that way ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Follow my travels through the Eve galaxy at my fancy new blog The Red Eye Express |
Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.30 11:53:00 -
[55]
Originally by: MercenaryMuffin Or...you could just run missions with your missioning boat, kill the rats, and mine the 'roids there. I've seen low-sec ore (Omber) in Level 3 missions, and Jaspet in Level 4s.
Of course, I just stopped mining all together when I saw that I made more money in 30 minutes from a L4 mission than I did from 2 hours of mining. Much easier to fund my part-time yarring that way
Yeah mining combat missions is really only profitable if you are in a group especially if eveyone hops in a combat ship with a salvager and turbos through the mission and then comes back with the hulks.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
MercenaryMuffin
Soul Ripper Consortium
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Posted - 2008.12.30 12:09:00 -
[56]
Well I'm a solo kinda guy, so mining by myself was, erm, less than efficient. I'd make about 8 million in 3 hours. That doesn't cut it.
Now I can make that much from a single level 4 mission. Much better! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Follow my travels through the Eve galaxy at my fancy new blog The Red Eye Express |
Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar Pragmatics
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Posted - 2008.12.30 12:21:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Warspawn Really, those that can afford Orcas can afford to mine in low sec and leave the stuff .5 and above to folks mining to advance their character.
Yes, 'cause nothing says "protecting your half billion investment" like moving it to low sec where the local pirates are eagerly waiting to hot-drop a couple of carriers on top of it.
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Concorduck
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.30 12:25:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Emily Spankratchet
Originally by: Warspawn Really, those that can afford Orcas can afford to mine in low sec and leave the stuff .5 and above to folks mining to advance their character.
Yes, 'cause nothing says "protecting your half billion investment" like moving it to Rancer
-----------------------------------------
Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
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MercenaryMuffin
Soul Ripper Consortium
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Posted - 2008.12.30 12:36:00 -
[59]
Mining in low-sec is out of the question. The ores there are only slightly more valuable in terms of isk/hour, and you WILL lose your very expensive mining ship. Multiple times. It's just not worth it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Follow my travels through the Eve galaxy at my fancy new blog The Red Eye Express |
Knobbing Everyone
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Posted - 2008.12.30 13:47:00 -
[60]
Stop whining...think you have problems?
I mine. I'm in 0.0. The system is -0.75 true sec. There's Arkonor, Crokite, Mercoxit. I have a POS. I have a Rorqual. I have the skills.. Sounds good eh?
I have a red Arazu cloaked somewhere...
Stop whining...some of us have bigger problems..
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