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Salvaging [FIX]

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Smelly Black Serpent Technologies Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.12.30 05:57:00 - [1] Any salvaging while within 100km of a mission becon will flag a player as aggressive if not within fleet of said player. Fixes the problem with salvage theifs and let us PVPER's bait people who want to greif.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.12.30 06:29:00 - [2] Mission in lowsec. Problem solved. Surely a tough PVPer like yourself has no problem with that, right? Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
NightF0x Gallente Chicken Coup Raiders	Posted - 2008.12.30 08:15:00 - [3] No. As it has been said a million times, salvaging is a mini-profession. If you don't want someone salvaging your mission wrecks then get an alt and salvage them yourself, drop some DPS and put a salvage and tractor beam on your BS or heaven forbid make a friend and have him salvage. Rig prices would sky rocket if this were introduced. BTW, salvaging someone's wreck isn't a crime so they are not thieves nor are they griefers. Wrecks are a free-for-all so get used to it. ------------------------------------
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Frigateers Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.12.30 09:06:00 - [4] Mission in low-sec. The money is better there anyways. ............. Now recruiting like-minded pilots.
Yolo Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb	Posted - 2008.12.30 10:37:00 - [5] Shoot the wrecks if you are so touchy feely about someone salvaging your wrecks.
shamai	Posted - 2008.12.30 11:21:00 - [6] Originally by: Smelly Any salvaging while within 100km of a mission becon will flag a player as aggressive if not within fleet of said player. Fixes the problem with salvage theifs and let us PVPER's bait people who want to greif. There is no problem to fix, ccp have stated this already
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.12.30 13:57:00 - [7] Originally by: Smelly Any salvaging while within 100km of a mission becon will flag a player as aggressive if not within fleet of said player. Fixes the problem with salvage theifs and let us PVPER's bait people who want to greif. Your idea is like your name. Smelly. Ninja Salvagers are not thieves. Mission Runners who miss out on the salvage are just slow. We're Recruiting!
AC Resonance Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.12.30 16:20:00 - [8] /jarvis Salvaging missions isn't stealing, but the fact mission runners think it is, and it makes them angry... turns me on.
shamai	Posted - 2008.12.30 16:25:00 - [9] Originally by: AC Resonance /jarvis Salvaging missions isn't stealing, but the fact mission runners think it is, and it makes them angry... turns me on. Meanie...rofl ;)
Rodamus Zero Gallente Shaolin Legacy	Posted - 2008.12.30 16:31:00 - [10] Salavge thiefs is a form or Piracy Piracy is a profession in Eve, although possibly the most lax form of Piracy, there are ways around it. Alt/mate salvagers, Rauders or just being quicker than the other guy? Salvaging would still leave a can, its jsut a different way to bait people. Pirates > Grievers? - Tell Them, Zero was Here.

shamai	Posted - 2008.12.30 16:39:00 - [11] Originally by: Rodamus Zero Salavge thiefs is a form or Piracy Piracy is a profession in Eve, although possibly the most lax form of Piracy, there are ways around it. Alt/mate salvagers, Rauders or just being quicker than the other guy? Salvaging would still leave a can, its jsut a different way to bait people. Pirates > Grievers? Salvage "theft" or "piracy" is no such thing, its just what it says on the tin...salvage(r)
Rodamus Zero Gallente Shaolin Legacy	Posted - 2008.12.30 16:50:00 - [12] Edited by: Rodamus Zero on 30/12/2008 16:50:15 Technically speaking, the wreck belongs to player A, while player B salvages it for Rig componants, that salvage, righty belonging to Player A. Player B, in any shape or form has stolen Player As salvage, Player B is the theif, thieving is another way of stealing. Stealing things is what a Pirate does ^^ Pirates steal things, whether Player B is a good upstanding citizen, or a Fringe Outlaw, they are a Pirate. Therefore, Salvage Thief or Salvage Pirate stands as such, there is such a thing. Though you are subject to your own opinion to disagree, I believe they exist. I wonder what Smelly is, Player A or Player B? - Tell Them, Zero was Here.
shamai	Posted - 2008.12.30 16:57:00 - [13] Originally by: Rodamus Zero Edited by: Rodamus Zero on 30/12/2008 16:50:15 Technically speaking, the wreck belongs to player A, while player B salvages it for Rig componants, that salvage, righty belonging to Player A. Player B, in any shape or form has stolen Player As salvage, Player B is the theif, thieving is another way of stealing. Stealing things is what a Pirate does ^^ Pirates steal things, whether Player B is a good upstanding citizen, or a Fringe Outlaw, they are a Pirate. Therefore, Salvage Thief or Salvage Pirate stands as such, there is such a thing. Though you are subject to your own opinion to disagree, I believe they exist. I wonder what Smelly is, Player A or Player B? Incorrect, the wreck belongs to nobody, hence why you dont get flagged for salvaging it.
Rodamus Zero Gallente Shaolin Legacy	Posted - 2008.12.30 17:17:00 - [14] Originally by: shamai Originally by: Rodamus Zero Edited by: Rodamus Zero on 30/12/2008 16:50:15 Technically speaking, the wreck belongs to player A, while player B salvages it for Rig componants, that salvage, righty belonging to Player A. Player B, in any shape or form has stolen Player As salvage, Player B is the theif, thieving is another way of stealing. Stealing things is what a Pirate does ^^ Pirates steal things, whether Player B is a good upstanding citizen, or a Fringe Outlaw, they are a Pirate. Therefore, Salvage Thief or Salvage Pirate stands as such, there is such a thing. Though you are subject to your own opinion to disagree, I believe they exist. I wonder what Smelly is, Player A or Player B? Incorrect, the wreck belongs to nobody, hence why you dont get flagged for salvaging it. Here is a a link to an image http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreckvj6.jpg I think you will find that that, Is my avatar, upon the wreck, claiming it as mine, in the overview, it has my corp ticker, referensing it further. Proof is in the pudding, Wrecks do belong to people. - Tell Them, Zero was Here.
shamai	Posted - 2008.12.30 17:30:00 - [15] Originally by: Rodamus Zero Originally by: shamai Originally by: Rodamus Zero Edited by: Rodamus Zero on 30/12/2008 16:50:15 Technically speaking, the wreck belongs to player A, while player B salvages it for Rig componants, that salvage, righty belonging to Player A. Player B, in any shape or form has stolen Player As salvage, Player B is the theif, thieving is another way of stealing. Stealing things is what a Pirate does ^^ Pirates steal things, whether Player B is a good upstanding citizen, or a Fringe Outlaw, they are a Pirate. Therefore, Salvage Thief or Salvage Pirate stands as such, there is such a thing. Though you are subject to your own opinion to disagree, I believe they exist. I wonder what Smelly is, Player A or Player B? Incorrect, the wreck belongs to nobody, hence why you dont get flagged for salvaging it. Here is a a link to an image http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreckvj6.jpg I think you will find that that, Is my avatar, upon the wreck, claiming it as mine, in the overview, it has my corp ticker, referensing it further. Proof is in the pudding, Wrecks do belong to people. Nope thats the rights to LOOT the wreck, thats different to salvage Maybe it would help if they seperated the loot into a can that had your name on it and a wreck that said FFA Salvage is not theft, no matter how much you want it to be
Vall Kor Minmatar	Posted - 2008.12.30 19:41:00 - [16] Edited by: Vall Kor on 30/12/2008 19:42:50 Edited by: Vall Kor on 30/12/2008 19:42:03 Originally by: Rodamus Zero Salavge thiefs is a form or Piracy Piracy is a profession in Eve, although possibly the most lax form of Piracy, there are ways around it. Alt/mate salvagers, Rauders or just being quicker than the other guy? Salvaging would still leave a can, its jsut a different way to bait people. Pirates > Grievers? See the difference between the salvage thieves and pirates; is the threat of a pirate can be removed. You should be flagged for salvaging the wreck. If not, I want a carebear flag put in game so i can rat in low/null sec and be protected by concord. Since, that is basically what the salvage thieves have. Sounds, like the thieves want free pickings.
shamai	Posted - 2008.12.30 20:09:00 - [17] Originally by: Vall Kor Edited by: Vall Kor on 30/12/2008 19:42:50 Edited by: Vall Kor on 30/12/2008 19:42:03 Originally by: Rodamus Zero Salavge thiefs is a form or Piracy Piracy is a profession in Eve, although possibly the most lax form of Piracy, there are ways around it. Alt/mate salvagers, Rauders or just being quicker than the other guy? Salvaging would still leave a can, its jsut a different way to bait people. Pirates > Grievers? See the difference between the salvage thieves and pirates; is the threat of a pirate can be removed. You should be flagged for salvaging the wreck. If not, I want a carebear flag put in game so i can rat in low/null sec and be protected by concord. Since, that is basically what the salvage thieves have. Sounds, like the thieves want free pickings. Salvage has a long and colourful maritime past, its legal and has been going on for years. The same cannot be said for piracy, in the legal sense Get a maurauder and quit the whiney carebear "waa waa protect me from the nasty man mummy" posts
Karentaki Gallente Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.12.30 20:20:00 - [18] No. Come on, this has to be the hundredth thread on this same topic, and your argument is basically. Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.12.30 20:41:00 - [19] Quote: See the difference between the salvage thieves and pirates; is the threat of a pirate can be removed. You should be flagged for salvaging the wreck. If not, I want a carebear flag put in game so i can rat in low/null sec and be protected by concord. Since, that is basically what the salvage thieves have. Mission in lowsec. Why the hell do all the whiners insist on repeating the same old tired crap? Why can't they give a good reason why they can't mission in lowsec, where they CAN pop anyone who tries to salvage their mission? Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Traders Outpost	Posted - 2008.12.30 21:02:00 - [20] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: See the difference between the salvage thieves and pirates; is the threat of a pirate can be removed. You should be flagged for salvaging the wreck. If not, I want a carebear flag put in game so i can rat in low/null sec and be protected by concord. Since, that is basically what the salvage thieves have. Mission in lowsec. Why the hell do all the whiners insist on repeating the same old tired crap? Why can't they give a good reason why they can't mission in lowsec, where they CAN pop anyone who tries to salvage their mission? Are you afraid of being flashy red to a carebear? Salvaging should be fair game if the person has left the zone, abandoned wrecks and loot should not flag. If someone is sitting in a mission area you are stealing and they can not fight back. it's stupid not to be able to protect your source of income. Missioning in low sec isn't worth the hassle. Low sec is full of sniveling teenagers looking to get their FPS fix on that's it's not even funny.

shamai	Posted - 2008.12.31 00:20:00 - [21] Originally by: Traders Outpost Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: See the difference between the salvage thieves and pirates; is the threat of a pirate can be removed. You should be flagged for salvaging the wreck. If not, I want a carebear flag put in game so i can rat in low/null sec and be protected by concord. Since, that is basically what the salvage thieves have. Mission in lowsec. Why the hell do all the whiners insist on repeating the same old tired crap? Why can't they give a good reason why they can't mission in lowsec, where they CAN pop anyone who tries to salvage their mission? Are you afraid of being flashy red to a carebear? Salvaging should be fair game if the person has left the zone, abandoned wrecks and loot should not flag. If someone is sitting in a mission area you are stealing and they can not fight back. it's stupid not to be able to protect your source of income. Missioning in low sec isn't worth the hassle. Low sec is full of sniveling teenagers looking to get their FPS fix on that's it's not even funny. honestly SALVAGE IS SALVAGE, LOOT IS LOOT There is a subtle difference learn it
NightF0x Gallente Chicken Coup Raiders	Posted - 2008.12.31 00:35:00 - [22] Originally by: Rodamus Zero Originally by: shamai Originally by: Rodamus Zero Edited by: Rodamus Zero on 30/12/2008 16:50:15 Technically speaking, the wreck belongs to player A, while player B salvages it for Rig componants, that salvage, righty belonging to Player A. Player B, in any shape or form has stolen Player As salvage, Player B is the theif, thieving is another way of stealing. Stealing things is what a Pirate does ^^ Pirates steal things, whether Player B is a good upstanding citizen, or a Fringe Outlaw, they are a Pirate. Therefore, Salvage Thief or Salvage Pirate stands as such, there is such a thing. Though you are subject to your own opinion to disagree, I believe they exist. I wonder what Smelly is, Player A or Player B? Incorrect, the wreck belongs to nobody, hence why you dont get flagged for salvaging it. Here is a a link to an image http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreckvj6.jpg I think you will find that that, Is my avatar, upon the wreck, claiming it as mine, in the overview, it has my corp ticker, referensing it further. Proof is in the pudding, Wrecks do belong to people. Funny that you apparently have no idea the history behind salvaging and its role in Eve. There was a time where you had to loot the wreck before you could salvage it, thus giving you a flag. CCP very quickly remedied this and we have what we have now, a profession that clears the clutter of garbage in Eve and a flag-free fun time. Wrecks are free to everyone, loot is flagged to individuals. Learn the difference and understand that CCP will not change this back to the way it was. [/thread] ------------------------------------
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.12.31 06:28:00 - [23] Quote: Are you afraid of being flashy red to a carebear? Salvaging should be fair game if the person has left the zone, abandoned wrecks and loot should not flag. If someone is sitting in a mission area you are stealing and they can not fight back. it's stupid not to be able to protect your source of income. The current system merely saves me the inconvenience of having to train up for a gank BS. Salvaging is its own profession. Wrecks are like asteroids floating in space. Quote: Missioning in low sec isn't worth the hassle. Low sec is full of sniveling teenagers looking to get their FPS fix on that's it's not even funny. That is you're afraid of the ebil piwates and want all the protection of hisec in addition to all the profits. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2008.12.31 08:46:00 - [24] I'm gonna have to agree with the OP here, only I'd like to take it one step further. If you enter my mission without my persmission, you get flagged as if you stole somthing from me.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2008.12.31 08:54:00 - [25] Originally by: NightF0x CCP very quickly remedied this and we have what we have now, a profession that clears the clutter of garbage in Eve and a flag-free fun time. Wrecks are free to everyone, loot is flagged to individuals. Learn the difference and understand that CCP will not change this back to the way it was. What we have now is concord sanctioned griefing. Wrecks in a mission don't need to be cleared till the mission is over. They aren't clutter as they have value. If they didn't, no one would care to steal them. They vanish on thier own after 2 hours. There's no need of a "mini profession" to clean them up. Spew your propoganda all you like, it doesn't change facts. There is no legitimate reason for anyone to be in someone else's mission without permission. Taking a wreck from someone's active mission is stealing, and a player doing so should be flagged.
shamai	Posted - 2008.12.31 09:44:00 - [26] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass I'm gonna have to agree with the OP here, only I'd like to take it one step further. If you enter my mission without my persmission, you get flagged as if you stole somthing from me. So long as that flag applies to you and the "aggressor" sure
shamai	Posted - 2008.12.31 09:46:00 - [27] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Originally by: NightF0x CCP very quickly remedied this and we have what we have now, a profession that clears the clutter of garbage in Eve and a flag-free fun time. Wrecks are free to everyone, loot is flagged to individuals. Learn the difference and understand that CCP will not change this back to the way it was. What we have now is concord sanctioned griefing. Wrecks in a mission don't need to be cleared till the mission is over. They aren't clutter as they have value. If they didn't, no one would care to steal them. They vanish on thier own after 2 hours. There's no need of a "mini profession" to clean them up. Spew your propoganda all you like, it doesn't change facts. There is no legitimate reason for anyone to be in someone else's mission without permission. Taking a wreck from someone's active mission is stealing, and a player doing so should be flagged. snore The "legitimate" reason is that the salvage is there to be salvaged, there need be no other reason. You cannot seriously expect to play this game in a bubble the entire time, if you just want to make artificial money go play freelancer or something
NightF0x Gallente Chicken Coup Raiders	Posted - 2008.12.31 13:55:00 - [28] Edited by: NightF0x on 31/12/2008 13:56:23 Originally by: shamai Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Originally by: NightF0x CCP very quickly remedied this and we have what we have now, a profession that clears the clutter of garbage in Eve and a flag-free fun time. Wrecks are free to everyone, loot is flagged to individuals. Learn the difference and understand that CCP will not change this back to the way it was. What we have now is concord sanctioned griefing. Wrecks in a mission don't need to be cleared till the mission is over. They aren't clutter as they have value. If they didn't, no one would care to steal them. They vanish on thier own after 2 hours. There's no need of a "mini profession" to clean them up. Spew your propoganda all you like, it doesn't change facts. There is no legitimate reason for anyone to be in someone else's mission without permission. Taking a wreck from someone's active mission is stealing, and a player doing so should be flagged. snore The "legitimate" reason is that the salvage is there to be salvaged, there need be no other reason. You cannot seriously expect to play this game in a bubble the entire time, if you just want to make artificial money go play freelancer or something or Monopoly :D ------------------------------------
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.12.31 16:32:00 - [29] Quote: There's no need of a "mini profession" to clean them up. CCP thinks there is, which is why they introduced salvaging. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Smelly Black Serpent Technologies Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.12.31 19:12:00 - [30] I guess this is a pretty big topic now adays. When a mission is active there is a mission becon - If the owner of the mission wants to salvage the mission he will. If someone wants to steal the wrecks he should be flagged while the mission becon is there. If the player moves on to the next gate of a mission and someone steals it so be it - but they risk their aggressive flag just like someone whom goes to a ratting belt and takes a can b/c nobody is there. Once a mission is turned in the becon disappears and no longer would be affected by this rule set. Those players whom really want get those uber wrecks have choices now. They can join the fleet and get it via permission. They can just steal it and get flagged right infront of the owner. They can find a missioner spot and take the wreck when the owner heads to next part. They can BM the location and come back when the mission owner turns in the mission thus giving you left over salvage rights with no aggression. I am a fair believer of the freedom of doing whatever you want in eve. But when it comes down to it there is just this one little nitch or glitch that you can grief without the opposite and equal reaction. It is a way to beat natural law It is simple and would work.

Imertu Solientai	Posted - 2008.12.31 19:47:00 - [31] The fact that you even use the word 'grief' says a lot about you. I would strongly advise you to go and cry yourself to sleep while everyone else gets on with having fun. You claim to be a PvP'er, but to be honest you're just proving to everyone that the closest you come to PvP is the joke that is 0.0 fleet battles where you just press buttons when the FC tells you to. Now that I've got that over with, I'll explain to you why you're wrong. You seem to use the word 'grief' to describe any activity that causes another player to not be able to enjoy the game to the fullest. Now, have you ever considered that the 'griefers' count as players too. Their maximum enjoyment of the game comes from doing things which 'grief' others, such as salvaging wrecks from missions. Now, not only is this problem unreconcilable for allowing people to salvage or not, but it also applies to the problem of aggro or no aggro. Therefore, you can't use the argument that the mission runner has some right to play the game in greater safety. Now, given that you can't argue either way for which one should be favoured, the logical solution is to just ignore both sides and concentrate development time on other aspects. However, if you can find another argument for helping mission runners this way, then feel free to present it.
RedSplat Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:29:00 - [32] Silly Mission Bears.
Yarik Mendel Privateers	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:26:00 - [33] Nothing can salvage [FIX], hey are dead.
Velocity Prime Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.01.15 16:01:00 - [34] Edited by: Velocity Prime on 15/01/2009 16:01:45 Read it and weep, suckas. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=971872&page=1#30
shamai	Posted - 2009.01.15 17:29:00 - [35] No such thing as salvage theft sorry. Salvage is the reward for being essentially a garbage collector, the payment for this job is the salvage itself. Your garbage is not flagged for a reason, its there for someone else ot clean up. They cant very well be called a thief for doing that very thing now can they? Oh btw, you have thought about the massive increase in mission ganking that would occur should you shoot one of these players under this proposed change?
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.01.16 00:57:00 - [36] Originally by: Velocity Prime Edited by: Velocity Prime on 15/01/2009 16:01:45 Read it and weep, suckas. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=971872&page=1#30 QFT, and bears repeating. (HA! "Bears" Repeating! I made a funny!) /me does the cabbage patch all around his keyboard.
Baltherzar	Posted - 2009.01.16 13:15:00 - [37] BRING ON THE TRUPPETS!!!!
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2009.01.16 15:13:00 - [38] Originally by: Smelly I guess this is a pretty big topic now adays. When a mission is active there is a mission becon - If the owner of the mission wants to salvage the mission he will. If someone wants to steal the wrecks he should be flagged while the mission becon is there. If the player moves on to the next gate of a mission and someone steals it so be it - but they risk their aggressive flag just like someone whom goes to a ratting belt and takes a can b/c nobody is there. Once a mission is turned in the becon disappears and no longer would be affected by this rule set. Those players whom really want get those uber wrecks have choices now. They can join the fleet and get it via permission. They can just steal it and get flagged right infront of the owner. They can find a missioner spot and take the wreck when the owner heads to next part. They can BM the location and come back when the mission owner turns in the mission thus giving you left over salvage rights with no aggression. I am a fair believer of the freedom of doing whatever you want in eve. But when it comes down to it there is just this one little nitch or glitch that you can grief without the opposite and equal reaction. It is a way to beat natural law It is simple and would work. ok this shows you have no clue ... salvaging after the mission was turned in is faster, because you can use an MWD to move between wrecks ... and once you implement this, there will be pirates doing this just so they can shoot you once you try to attacke them ... do you actualy want that ?? --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !


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