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Tobin Shalim
Warped Mining
Strip Mining Club
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Posted - 2009.01.02 01:24:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
You are talking about "action at a distance". Einstein did away with that with General Relativity. Information cannot propogate faster than light speed and feeling the gravitational tug of something else is "information". If you magically made the sun disappear the earth would continue orbiting for ~8 minutes till the gravitational information, moving at light speed, reached us. Then we'd sail off into space.
The problem with that is that the quantum entanglement theory (which has been very crudely shown with highly advanced experiments) seems to eliminate General Relativity and also calls into question the idea that nothing can go faster than c.
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Originally by: Haakkon
I feel a great deal of patriotism at being a part of Goonswarm. We've accomplished great things... we're just mainly jerks about it
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Leneerra
Minmatar
Kid's
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Posted - 2009.01.02 03:45:00 -
[92]
There is a bit of a problem with this question as science seems to be using a bit of circular reasoning in this.
The speed of light in free space is exactly 299,792,458 metres per second (m/s).
The length of a meter was redefined in 1983 as the distance traveled by light in a vacuum in 1/299,792,458 of a second.
So if the speed of light changes, all we will have to do is replace our tapemesurers and pretend nothing happened.
At least a seccond is defined as "The time needed for a cesium-133 atom to perform 9,192,631,770 complete oscillations.", if it was defined as the time needed for light to travel 299,792,458 metres we would never notice and just have trouble keeping time (or measuring meters.. or both  )
(lets hope these oscilations remain as they are or things wil get very difficult to measure to any accepteble standard)
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.02 04:46:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Dantes Revenge on 02/01/2009 04:50:04
Originally by: Leneerra
At least a seccond is defined as "The time needed for a cesium-133 atom to perform 9,192,631,770 complete oscillations."
I find that strange, one would have thought they would have rounded it up to the even 10 million.
Another paradox has just occured to me.
Imagine this: You are travelling at the speed of a bullet. You raise and fire a gun in the opposite direction. To a static observer, the bullet would simply fall to the ground where you fired it but, to you, it would seem to zoom off into the distance at it's normal speed. If you fire it in the direction of travel, the bullet would travel at twice the speed of normal but only to a static observer, to you, it would still travel at it's normal speed.
If the universe is expanding, how does that affect light?
If light really does have mass, it would be affected by the inertia in the direction of travel of this galaxy from the centre of the universe. Therefore, light generated on Earth would travel slower toward the centre of the universe and faster away from it. Also, take into consideration, Earths rotation, Earths orbit, galactic rotation and galactic orbit which would also have an inertial effect on mass.
Now work this one out: Using the Expanding Universe Theory, we are travelling away from the universal centre at the speed of light. Since light shone from any point on earth will always reach it destination in the same time, isn't is correct to say that light travelling in the same direction of our travel from universal centre is travelling at twice the speed of light?
Therefore if light speed were an absolute, it stands to reason that, a light is shone at someone ten feet away in the same direction as our travel from universal centre, would never reach it's destination.
--
There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken.
All this has happened before and will happen again |
Khraunus
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.01.02 04:58:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Avon
Darkness is faster than light.
I was going to yell at you at first, But now that's actually starting to make sense...
Most importantly, how are you supposed to tell whether this is part of my post or my signature? |
Leneerra
Minmatar
Kid's
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Posted - 2009.01.02 10:34:00 -
[95]
with regards to the bullit fored in the opposite direction fallingto the floor theory
The velocity of a bullit trough an atmosphere is determined by its kinetic energy vs the atmospheric drag, it is not a function of just its kinetic energy. So it would be slower than a bullit fired while standing stil, but way faster than simply falling to the floor on that spot
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TrulyKosh
Gallente
Solo for UNCLE
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:35:00 -
[96]
Assuming c is constant. Further assuming that the universe expansion speed is <c.
That would imply that anything flying at speed c would eventually reach the "final frontier", the edge of an expanding universe. What happens then? If light does have matter, wouldn't that mean that the universe expands with every photon that crosses the border, thus making it the new border? i.e. universe expansion is actually c, and therefore a constant? (if it isn't now, it will be whenever the first light gets there).
or does the absence of space-time at the border render the observation of c obsolete?
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.02 12:14:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Dantes Revenge
Now work this one out: Using the Expanding Universe Theory, we are travelling away from the universal centre at the speed of light. Since light shone from any point on earth will always reach it destination in the same time, isn't is correct to say that light travelling in the same direction of our travel from universal centre is travelling at twice the speed of light?
No!
Time is different at those speeds. Someone posted some youtube links higher up. Have a look at those and all related videos. You'll get a better understanding.
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I should really get a sig. |
Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.02 18:03:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor
Originally by: Dantes Revenge
Now work this one out: Using the Expanding Universe Theory, we are travelling away from the universal centre at the speed of light. Since light shone from any point on earth will always reach it destination in the same time, isn't is correct to say that light travelling in the same direction of our travel from universal centre is travelling at twice the speed of light?
No!
Time is different at those speeds. Someone posted some youtube links higher up. Have a look at those and all related videos. You'll get a better understanding.
Youtube has sucked for me in the last few weeks, whether or not it's something to do with that cable break I don't know, but I don't like waiting 5 minutes or more for a couple of seconds of video to load before waiting another 5 for the next. To load a 3 minute video for me can take up to half an hour.
--
There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken.
All this has happened before and will happen again |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2009.01.02 21:01:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Tobin Shalim
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
You are talking about "action at a distance". Einstein did away with that with General Relativity. Information cannot propogate faster than light speed and feeling the gravitational tug of something else is "information". If you magically made the sun disappear the earth would continue orbiting for ~8 minutes till the gravitational information, moving at light speed, reached us. Then we'd sail off into space.
The problem with that is that the quantum entanglement theory (which has been very crudely shown with highly advanced experiments) seems to eliminate General Relativity and also calls into question the idea that nothing can go faster than c.
Quantum entanglement cannot transmit information faster than light speed.
And quantum entanglement does not change the fact that gravity propagates at light speed.
--------------------------------------------------
"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Leonidas Rex
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 22:14:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Leonidas Rex on 02/01/2009 22:14:58
Originally by: Khraunus
Originally by: Avon
Darkness is faster than light.
I was going to yell at you at first, But now that's actually starting to make sense...
Darkness doesn't "exist", its just an absence of light, therefore it cannot have a speed.
yes yes, joke all you want; "Hey I turned off the light and I can see the dark, so of course it exists"
Well, can you really SEE the dark or is it just that you don't see the light ^^
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skulcandy
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Posted - 2009.01.02 22:34:00 -
[101]
Edited by: skulcandy on 02/01/2009 22:39:13
Edited by: skulcandy on 02/01/2009 22:38:06
The speed of light is constant, and many have posted on here who are far more intelligent than myself and explain it a lot better. but one thing i've got a correction on is the material changing the speed of light. I could be wrong, and please correct me if i am, but from what i understand the speed of the light does not change when it passes through a material, only the path is changed therefore making it appear as if the speed has changed when in fact the light is only being forced to follow a longer path. Therefore the material changed the perceived speed not the actual speed.
example:
you roll a marble across a table and it takes 10 seconds to reach the other end. now you put a bumper on each side of table and roll the marble at the same speed but at an angle so that it bounces back and forth between the bumpers until it reaches the other end of the table. the marble was rolling at the same speed but overall took longer to reach the other end of the table because it was being bounced back and forth causing the overall distance to be longer even though the start and end point were still the same distance.
Granted this example isn't perfect because the marble would actually transfer force into the bumper each time it hit slowing it down along with the friction against the table with these variables removed the example is still sound.
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SniperWo1f
Omega Enterprises
0mega Factor
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Posted - 2009.01.03 00:28:00 -
[102]
Edited by: SniperWo1f on 03/01/2009 00:28:47
In passing through materials, the observed speed of light can differ from c, as a result of the time lag between the polarization response of the medium and the incident light. The ratio of c to the phase velocity of light in the material is called the refractive index. The speed of light in air is only slightly less than c. Denser media, such as water and glass, can slow light much more, to fractions such as 3⁄4 and 2⁄3 of c. Through diamond, light is much slowerùonly about 124,000 km/s, less than 1⁄2of c.[15] This reduction in speed is also responsible for bending of light at an interface between two materials with different indices, a phenomenon known as refraction.
Since the speed of light in a material depends on the refractive index, and the refractive index may depend on the frequency of the light, light at different frequencies can travel at different speeds through the same material. This effect is called dispersion.
Classically, considering electromagnetic radiation to be a wave, the charges of each atom (primarily the electrons) interact with the electric and magnetic fields of the radiation, slowing its progress.
something something...
edit: thanks wikipedia
"In Rust We Trust"
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Mazaron
Fallen Angel's
Blade.
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Posted - 2009.01.03 01:11:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Leonidas Rex
Darkness doesn't "exist", its just an absence of light, therefore it cannot have a speed.
yes yes, joke all you want; "Hey I turned off the light and I can see the dark, so of course it exists"
Well, can you really SEE the dark or is it just that you don't see the light ^^
Who says the light isn't an absence of darkness? ;)
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Daenes Nague
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Posted - 2009.01.03 02:57:00 -
[104]
yes sniper and its caused by what the poster above you tried to explain.
its actually a bit more complex, but the general idea is right.
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Tobin Shalim
Warped Mining
Strip Mining Club
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Posted - 2009.01.03 03:14:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Quantum entanglement cannot transmit information faster than light speed.
And quantum entanglement does not change the fact that gravity propagates at light speed.
http://www.eve-online.com/background/communication/comm_02.asp
Third paragraph from the bottom. Yes, I know it's a fiction Chronicle piece, but there is actual validity in that that has been proven by tests. It's a good layman's description of the entanglement principle.
http://www.etheric.com/GalacticCenter/GRB.html
No proof to back it up since the few gravity wave detectors we have were offline at the time, but the evidence is too coincidental to not have relevance. And this is true (the scientific facts he states, at least) as I looked into it myself when I first read it thinking it was BS.
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Originally by: Haakkon
I feel a great deal of patriotism at being a part of Goonswarm. We've accomplished great things... we're just mainly jerks about it
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.01.03 05:10:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Stil Harkonnen on 03/01/2009 05:11:15
I read an article somewhere that talked about a material that light only travels 40 miles per hour through. It was interesting.
I also watched this and my brain hurt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qji7pVf7-Ik
aw the link is broken
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Liliane Woodhead
Intergalactic Charwomen
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Posted - 2009.01.03 05:16:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Liliane Woodhead on 03/01/2009 05:26:22
Its easy, friend:
ToE Theory of Everything -> Real life.
ToN Theory of Nothing -> Eve.
One of them is by Oveur and his Hampst0rz, but i forgot which one :)
Whish you a happy Blackhole, cheers ;)
Edit: And the lToX little Theory of expansion.
expansion can be bigger than c (and it was!). Remember that it is the _room/time-thingy_ itselves that expands. We cannot just imagine this as our normal room we talk about.
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