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Atama Cardel Perkone	Posted - 2008.12.30 23:39:00 - [31] Originally by: AkRoYeR Originally by: Golan Cinquanteneuf In Eve we deal in AU's per second. But I started thinking about recent developments in cosmology. We know in that our observable universe, space (i.e. the universe itself) is expanding. In the 1990's we discovered that the rate of expansion is not slowing but is in fact increasing. It occured to me that these observations take into account that the speed of light is a constant. But has anyone checked the speed of light lately? And if they have, what was the methodology? And what are the consequences if the speed of light is changing. This probably belongs in OOPE but somehow that didn't seem like the appropriate place. OP=Fail. If anything attains the speed of light with mass, it becomes infinite, therefore it is everywhere at once, so how can something that is everywhere at the same time travel if it's already where it was traveling to? I'm pretty sure you got that wrong, mass is not the same as size, that's why different things have different densities, more mass in the same amount of space. In fact, the faster something is going, the shorter it is.
Neddy Fox Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.12.30 23:49:00 - [32] Originally by: Cpt Hound Does not matter. The speed of light in medium is also always constant. Speed on light in water is always the same, in Helium gas is always the same and so on. The speed of light IS constant, it only has different speeds in mediums. Hmm yeah, like a brick wall. That slows it down. ---- [PXIN Recruiter] PXIN Recruitement thread
Druadan BLAM Industries	Posted - 2008.12.30 23:51:00 - [33] Originally by: AkRoYeR Originally by: Golan Cinquanteneuf In Eve we deal in AU's per second. But I started thinking about recent developments in cosmology. We know in that our observable universe, space (i.e. the universe itself) is expanding. In the 1990's we discovered that the rate of expansion is not slowing but is in fact increasing. It occured to me that these observations take into account that the speed of light is a constant. But has anyone checked the speed of light lately? And if they have, what was the methodology? And what are the consequences if the speed of light is changing. This probably belongs in OOPE but somehow that didn't seem like the appropriate place. OP=Fail. If anything attains the speed of light with mass, it becomes infinite, therefore it is everywhere at once, so how can something that is everywhere at the same time travel if it's already where it was traveling to? You're confusing the speed of light with post-TOS Warp Factor 10. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Cpt Hound Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.12.30 23:52:00 - [34] Originally by: Manipulator General Edited by: Manipulator General on 30/12/2008 23:19:42 Originally by: Cpt Hound Originally by: ouroboros trading that's the speed of light in a vacuum iirc, speed of light is not a constant :P Hold on there, the speed of light IS a constant Erm, no it isn't. And the refractive index is your friend. Doesn't matter. The speed of light is constant. If you measure the speed of light in the same medium it will always be the same, the fact that light slows down in different mediums doesn't matter. The speed of light in vacuum is constant, the speed of light in water is constant, the speed of light in air is constant. Need me to go on?
DiaBlo UK Cold Blooded Killers	Posted - 2008.12.30 23:58:00 - [35] Originally by: AkRoYeR OP=Fail. If anything attains the speed of light with mass, it becomes infinite, therefore it is everywhere at once, so how can something that is everywhere at the same time travel if it's already where it was traveling to? light has mass. its both a particle and a wave. unless ofc you follow one of the newer theories and believe everything is just i vibration felt from another dimension. but thats beyond the point, some1 above me put it best, in says that the theory that the speed of light is increasing model has yet to be proven wrong. and at the end of the day, science never proves something is right, only that something is wrong. there are no certainties. Originally by: CCP Navigator Pretty sure someone is selling tinfoil hats. You should buy one Originally by: CCP Zulupark Trollin' with my homies!
Malphilos	Posted - 2008.12.31 00:16:00 - [36] Originally by: DiaBlo UKand at the end of the day, science never proves something is right, only that something is wrong. there are no certainties.[/quote Sorry, but someone needs to ask if you're certain about that.
Daenes Nague	Posted - 2008.12.31 00:30:00 - [37] Just to clarify and not feed your ignorance. Light has no mass, even though photons have an impulse. speed of light is constant under all circumstances. If gravity affects the light, the time will bend and light has still the same speed. (which is why it is discussed wether particles actually can reach the centre of a black hole...the closer you get, the more time bends) Even if you travel at 99% speed of light, you will still see all photons move with 300000m/s relative to you, time will bend once again. If light hits a brick wall, the photons are absorbed by the material and disappear (simplyfied), they dont slow down and stop. If light goes trough glass etc, the actual speed of light is still the same, but the actual way the light travels is longer. c is equal everywhere anytime, no matter how fast you move and what you do. This has some heavy consequences.
Icarus Flame Amarr Van Ness Pet Hospital	Posted - 2008.12.31 01:12:00 - [38] Originally by: AkRoYeR Originally by: Golan Cinquanteneuf In Eve we deal in AU's per second. But I started thinking about recent developments in cosmology. We know in that our observable universe, space (i.e. the universe itself) is expanding. In the 1990's we discovered that the rate of expansion is not slowing but is in fact increasing. It occured to me that these observations take into account that the speed of light is a constant. But has anyone checked the speed of light lately? And if they have, what was the methodology? And what are the consequences if the speed of light is changing. This probably belongs in OOPE but somehow that didn't seem like the appropriate place. OP=Fail. If anything attains the speed of light with mass, it becomes infinite, therefore it is everywhere at once, so how can something that is everywhere at the same time travel if it's already where it was traveling to? Nah, I'm pretty sure you're the only one failing here. Mass != size, fool. That's why your baseball weighs more than your beachball.
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.31 01:29:00 - [39] Can I humbly suggest that some of you might find the following forum interesting? ~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest.
Antimony Noske	Posted - 2008.12.31 02:01:00 - [40] You know, I've always wanted to see faster than light travel realistically depicted in Eve. Not from a technological standpoint though - I'm talking graphically. This is a visualization of what things look like as you approach lightspeed. I'd certainly be interested in seeing what faster than light travel would look like to an observer and to the person traveling faster than light. [Wikipedia has a g.if in their tachyon article that sort of shows what it looks like.]
Infinity Ziona Extortive	Posted - 2008.12.31 03:01:00 - [41] Originally by: Cpt Hound Edited by: Cpt Hound on 30/12/2008 22:19:50 Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 Originally by: Cpt Hound Does not matter. The speed of light in medium is also always constant. Speed on light in water is always the same, in Helium gas is always the same and so on. The speed of light IS constant, it only has different speeds in mediums. Wrong, light will travel slower in 100atm of air at room temperature than it will in 0.2 atm of air at room temp Yeah? You're talking about two different kinds of medium, the same point still stands. The speed of light IS constant. The only thing that changes is the medium. You can't slow down the speed of light neither can you increase it. People who say they have slowed down the speed of light have only passed the light through a medium where the speed of light is really slow. Nothing groundbreaking stuff. The quantum theory of atoms tells us that frequencies and wavelengths depend chiefly on the values of Planck's constant, the electronic charge, and the masses of the electron and nucleons, as well as on the speed of light. By eliminating the dimensions of units from the parameters we can derive a few dimensionless quantities, such as the fine structure constant and the electron to proton mass ratio. These values are independent of the definition of the units, so it makes much more sense to ask whether these values change. If they did change, it would not just be the speed of light which was affected. The whole of chemistry is dependent on their values, and significant changes would alter the chemical and mechanical properties of all substances. Furthermore, the speed of light itself would change by different amounts according to which definition of units you used. In that case, it would make more sense to attribute the changes to variations in the charge on the electron or the particle masses than to changes in the speed of light. Seeing as these contants, are infact constants and have not changed, then the speed of light is a constant. Tell that to a theoretical event horizon. Ganking Buddhist Nun
Abye Perkone	Posted - 2008.12.31 03:14:00 - [42] Originally by: Karentaki I'm pretty sure if the universal constant 'c' (aka the speed of light) changed, than nobody would be left to measure the new value. The existence of any kind of normal matter is highly dependant on the universal constants remaining within VERY narrow bounds. some theories suggest that c was different at some point in the very early universe, but before that point there was no real matter to speak of. Exiled Q, LaForge and Data discussing about preventing an asteroid from crashing into a habitated planet "Simple: Change the gravitational constant of the universe." "What?" "Change the gravitational constant of the universe, thereby altering the mass of the asteroid." "Redefine gravity. And how the hell am I supposed to do that?" "You just DO it. GAHH! Where's that doctor, anyway?" "Geordi is trying to say that changing the gravitational constant of the universe is beyond our capabilities." "Well, then... never mind." ___ CCP Garthagk: "And that is why GMs aren't DEVs"
Chesty McJubblies	Posted - 2008.12.31 03:57:00 - [43] Someone kill me. Please.
masternerdguy Gallente Gate Control Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.31 04:26:00 - [44] speed of light in a vacuum is constant, and obviously the expansion isnt enough to throw off calculations or we woulda solved this by now.
Space Fascist	Posted - 2008.12.31 04:44:00 - [45] Originally by: Daenes Nague I personally believe that our universe is part of a higher dimension or similar which we cannot reach nor sense. In this dimension we expand further and further, but since we cannot sense this dimension it appears all of our space is expanding. Its much like a ant on a expanding baloon, except the ant is 2D. You heard it here first! I personally believe you're a **ing idiot. The difference between my personal belief and your personal belief is that I'm right and you...well, you're a ing idiot. HEIL ****.
Space Fascist	Posted - 2008.12.31 04:44:00 - [46] Originally by: Space Fascist Originally by: Daenes Nague I personally believe that our universe is part of a higher dimension or similar which we cannot reach nor sense. In this dimension we expand further and further, but since we cannot sense this dimension it appears all of our space is expanding. Its much like a ant on a expanding baloon, except the ant is 2D. You heard it here first! I personally believe you're a fucking idiot. The difference between my personal belief and your personal belief is that I'm right and you...well, you're a fucking idiot. HEIL HITLER.
Troll Alt	Posted - 2008.12.31 04:46:00 - [47] Originally by: Space Fascist Originally by: Space Fascist Originally by: Daenes Nague I personally believe that our universe is part of a higher dimension or similar which we cannot reach nor sense. In this dimension we expand further and further, but since we cannot sense this dimension it appears all of our space is expanding. Its much like a ant on a expanding baloon, except the ant is 2D. You heard it here first! I personally believe you're a fucking idiot. The difference between my personal belief and your personal belief is that I'm right and you...well, you're a fucking idiot. HEIL HITLER. As you can guess, I'm quitting EVE. Account name SirMolle, password ISuckCCPMitnal'sBigBlackCock.
Space Fascist	Posted - 2008.12.31 04:46:00 - [48] Originally by: Troll Alt Originally by: Space Fascist Originally by: Space Fascist Originally by: Daenes Nague I personally believe that our universe is part of a higher dimension or similar which we cannot reach nor sense. In this dimension we expand further and further, but since we cannot sense this dimension it appears all of our space is expanding. Its much like a ant on a expanding baloon, except the ant is 2D. You heard it here first! I personally believe you're a fucking idiot. The difference between my personal belief and your personal belief is that I'm right and you...well, you're a fucking idiot. HEIL HITLER. As you can guess, I'm quitting EVE. Account name SirMolle, password ISuckCCPMitnal'sBigBlackCock. Fuck wrong character.
Xavier Zedicus	Posted - 2008.12.31 05:06:00 - [49] Originally by: AkRoYeR OP=Fail. If anything attains the speed of light with mass, it becomes infinite, therefore it is everywhere at once, so how can something that is everywhere at the same time travel if it's already where it was traveling to? stop trying to destroy the universe with your logical paradoxes!
5ylar	Posted - 2008.12.31 05:14:00 - [50] What a bunch of nerds
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.12.31 05:27:00 - [51] Okay, to break this down and not be overly technical on the subject: The rate of expansion of the universe is increasing. The expansion of the universe is observable only in terms of largely massive objects-- as in a galaxy as a unit. Stars are not moving away from stars the way you'd imagine by saying simply that space is expanding. Take a rubber band and mark 3 dots on it--- now stretch it apart. THAT's how the universe is expanding. The rate of expansion is immeasurably small on small objects. 1m is always going to seem be 1m, since you are expanding at the same rate. Relative to how you view 1m NOW--- well it may change over the next hundred billion years, but you'd never notice. The rate of change is almost on-existant, in fact, since quantum forces are exerted on the particles in that space. So that means until the force from the rate of expansion overtakes the amount of force that weak and strong forces exert on a particle, you won't see that particle expand, but you may see the SPACE AROUND IT expand. - it would be like putting an ice cube in a cup, and then having the cup expand. The ice cube is STILL the same size. I hope this helps. Also, but unrelated- 1 AU/s = 8 light minutes. so.. (6 * (Astronomical Unit per second)) / the speed of light = 2,994.03129 [check] 2 994.03129 * the speed of light = 6 au / s Not looking good in terms of power requirements, even for a Gallente Shuttle. AT ALL. Gal Shuttle 1600000 KG E=mc2, 1.4380e+23 joules 1.4380e+23 joules * 2,994.03129 = 4.305417 + 10^26 joules 4.305417 + 10^26 joules per second (= watts) That's 1 second's requirements. 1 freaking second. Good, freakin' luck.
Jascal Nova-Tek	Posted - 2008.12.31 05:31:00 - [52] Something of a semantic issue here.... The speed of light varies with the medium, but regardless of the medium, EVERY observer will measure the same speed, regardless of relative velocities. Until this was discovered as a behavior of light by Michaelson and Morley in the 1870's or so (spellin may be off) all velocities were believed to obey Gallilean translations. That is to say, velocities added algebraically. That was a serious mystery, and it took a rebel like Einstein to be bold enough to toss out Newton's definitions of space and time and come up with a solution that has yet to be proven wrong. -Old and in the way . . Shine up the Mod's bullet before you let them carry it in their shirt pocket :)
Pacum'cha	Posted - 2008.12.31 05:54:00 - [53] <a href="http://photobucket.com/images/motivational%20****" target="_blank"><img src="http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k42/takaradoll/motivational%20posters/1204312188217.jpg" border="0" alt="**** randomly spotted Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>
r0b0to Dark Star Cartel	Posted - 2008.12.31 06:07:00 - [54] Edited by: r0b0to on 31/12/2008 06:07:27 oh jeez you guys are terrible wtb internet physicists The speed of light IS constant. It's only 'slower' in different media because it's absorbed and released by the media's electrons, i.e. the light gets absorbed by one atom, gets released, absorbed by another. This makes it travel a bigger distance than the actual size of the medium, thus giving it the illusion of traveling slower. The speed of light when traveling between atoms is equal to the constant, c. -----------
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.12.31 06:08:00 - [55] Cache cleared.
Onionico Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.12.31 06:16:00 - [56] Originally by: Golan Cinquanteneuf In Eve we deal in AU's per second. But I started thinking about recent developments in cosmology. We know in that our observable universe, space (i.e. the universe itself) is expanding. In the 1990's we discovered that the rate of expansion is not slowing but is in fact increasing. It occured to me that these observations take into account that the speed of light is a constant. But has anyone checked the speed of light lately? And if they have, what was the methodology? And what are the consequences if the speed of light is changing. This probably belongs in OOPE but somehow that didn't seem like the appropriate place. Asking physics questions in a space MMO general discussion forum? Jesus christ. That said, your question can be simplified into: "is the speed of light constant?" Short answer: yes. Long answer: depends where and when you measure it. Open a physics text book or use the google.
rValdez5987 Amarr 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.	Posted - 2008.12.31 06:24:00 - [57] Originally by: Onionico Jesus christ. Hello, you rang?
Daenes Nague	Posted - 2008.12.31 17:47:00 - [58] Speed of light is always constant, why do you still insist its not. If something would change c, time and space are bend instead. every book stating otherwise is wrong. there is a reason why 1 meter is defined as "the distance light travels in "a small number" seconds"
Michelle Raynor Caldari The Legion of Darkness Band of Renegades	Posted - 2008.12.31 18:00:00 - [59] Originally by: Khemul Zula Edited by: Khemul Zula on 30/12/2008 21:01:11 I just tested the speed of light with a lamp and a stopwatch. No observable change. threathwinna
Azia Burgi Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.12.31 18:05:00 - [60] bad news is faster than light. Azia Burgi http://azia.geekandproud.co.uk BP Profit Calculator EVE Cemetery

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