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Mouji AlMefel
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Posted - 2009.01.02 05:51:00 -
[1]
I hear allot about Energy weapons but I've not heard much discussion about Artilery guns. Are they viable alternatives to Hybrids and Energy? Is there a downside to using them if you have the skill for them?
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
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Posted - 2009.01.02 06:57:00 -
[2]
Cons
1. Low DPS 2. Teeerrible Tracking 3. Very hit to fit 4. Small clip size
Pro
1. Sorta changeable damage type 2. Alpha Strike
Of the three turret types, Projectiles fair the worst in PvE.
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
VJ Maverick
Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2009.01.02 07:14:00 -
[3]
I LOVE my artillery Maelstrom. 550+ gun dps and enough alpha to insta-pop any NPC smaller than a battleship. --------
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Mouji AlMefel
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Posted - 2009.01.02 08:49:00 -
[4]
Just looking at the guns, the 1400 for example, the damage seems to be less than a comparable Hybrid or Energy weapon both in base damage and speed of fire. What am I missing?
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Soryanna
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Posted - 2009.01.02 09:48:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Mouji AlMefel Just looking at the guns, the 1400 for example, the damage seems to be less than a comparable Hybrid or Energy weapon both in base damage and speed of fire. What am I missing?
Your not missing anything. Artillery has the worst DPS/tracking of any of the weapons for PvE.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.02 09:54:00 -
[6]
Capless and not harder to fit than other long range weapons
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 09:55:00 -
[7]
Maelstrom with 800's and afterburner = npc **** :)
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Challis
Caldari Omega Sector
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Posted - 2009.01.02 12:58:00 -
[8]
Arty is prolly the worst of all for missions, but you can still mission with them. I do it with my fleet tempest and 1200mm's and dont have any trouble with missions, as long as you know what your doing.
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Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2009.01.02 13:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Naomi Knight Capless and not harder to fit than other long range weapons
Capless: Irrelevante for pve and almost irrelevant for pvp as well, save for very specific situations. Your wepons may be capless but your tank and EW never is.
Not harder to fit than other long range weapons: So the fact that it is not worse on fitting is an advantage now? That is what I call getting dhort of arguments...
Basically if you want to do pve and can use lasers or Missiles, please do. Otherwise try rails if you have the skills. Failing all this you are stuck with artillery and ACs, currently the worst weapons in the game for pve AND pvp. May God have mercy on your soul. =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
VJ Maverick
Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2009.01.02 14:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sokratesz Maelstrom with 800's and afterburner = npc **** :)
Oh, yeah. Maelstrom AC setups are positively evil. --------
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chrisss0r
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:00:00 -
[11]
I use a sleipnir with a mix of 650 and 720 guns. 4 hardeners 1 large shield booster, 3 gyros, 1 TE , 1 DCU
Works really fine and can tank some stuff
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Kurull Skullsplitter
Minmatar Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:32:00 -
[12]
I'm not disagreeing with any previous replies. Just stating how it goes for me.
I usually have excellent results in missions with 1200mm T2's. Most missions I get the rat spawns in excess of 35KM and they tend to travel rather slowly toward me after agro commences.
About half the time I can usually pop most if not all of the frigates with the Arty's. This has become a little more difficult with grouping which I like to use (and I don't like to change in a mission).
Also understand this: I wait until the rats are less than 40km from me before I pop them so I can tractor them in without flying around after them. So some other folks who don't wait probably have better fortune popping the frigates with Arty's.
Occasionally I switch them out for 800 AC. But the only time I do so is for the rats which close really fast and get under the guns. In THAT case about half the rats also get under my AC and I have to add two webifiers in order to slow them enough for the AC to hit for non-negligible damage. (Count them CCP TWO FACTION webifiers; Thank you for QR! NOT). Yeah that is what I'm saying. Before QR I didn't have to use two webifiers with my AC. |
Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:46:00 -
[13]
Sadly, the Maelstrom is the worst out of the Tier3 PvE ships, not because it's a bad ship (it's a great ship) but Artillery have alpha strike, and that's it. Alpha strike is worthless in PvE, and the huge falloff of ACs means that you are doing less damage than artillery at 30-40km. Of course it depends entirely on how well you can track your enemies, but warping into a mission it's no problem hitting npcs 30km out.
That being said, artillery still have the worst tracking and dps out of all the turret systems in the game, which makes them bad for mission running. Falloff for Minmatar means jack because it's always a liability on ACs. Minmatar aren't a mission-running race, even with our best PvE ship (Vargur). ...but on a serious note, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
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Kurull Skullsplitter
Minmatar Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:58:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Kurull Skullsplitter on 02/01/2009 16:00:08
Originally by: Spaztick Sadly, the Maelstrom is the worst out of the Tier3 PvE ships, not because it's a bad ship (it's a great ship) but Artillery have alpha strike, and that's it. Alpha strike is worthless in PvE, and the huge falloff of ACs means that you are doing less damage than artillery at 30-40km. Of course it depends entirely on how well you can track your enemies, but warping into a mission it's no problem hitting npcs 30km out.
That being said, artillery still have the worst tracking and dps out of all the turret systems in the game, which makes them bad for mission running. Falloff for Minmatar means jack because it's always a liability on ACs. Minmatar aren't a mission-running race, even with our best PvE ship (Vargur).
Just gonna disagree about the Vargur specifically and Minmatar in general. The Vargur works just fine with Arty for me. And any Minmatar ship is capable of doing missions appropriate to its size. Ships of each race have advantages and disadvantages. Seems to me it is the pilots ability to work with those advantages and deal with the disadvantages that make it possible. |
Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.01.02 16:07:00 -
[15]
I'm going to defend my arty Mael. I whip through missions and the rats usually are very susceptible to the alpha - no buffer tank. Cruisers usually insta pop. I also have a Target Painter on my Mael - don't laugh - and it makes a huge difference. The occassions where I mission run w/ friends who are in Raven's I pull my weight.
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VJ Maverick
Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2009.01.02 18:13:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Spaztick Artillery have alpha strike, and that's it. Alpha strike is worthless in PvE,
I would hardly call insta-popping everything up to and including elite battlecruisers worthless. Then again, your statement is conclusory and pure opinion, and thus as "worthless" as you claim alpha strike to be. --------
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Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2009.01.02 20:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: VJ Maverick
I would hardly call insta-popping everything up to and including elite battlecruisers worthless. Then again, your statement is conclusory and pure opinion, and thus as "worthless" as you claim alpha strike to be.
The average alpha strike from an arty-maelstrom is something around 5300 damage. That is insufficient to pop most elite cruisers in missions, and certainly insufficient to pop elite battlecruisers and even normal battlecruisers.
But even IF it was enough, there are multiple enemies in a mission and you need to kill all of them, which you will only do one slow shot at a time. While you are waiting for the next shot, on the oher hand, The Megapulse Apocalypse, or the Tachyon Abaddon have killed a couple of other ships...
In the end dps battleships are still much superior, even in the unreal scenario that you could alpha strike everything with artillery. =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
VJ Maverick
Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2009.01.02 20:34:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
The average alpha strike from an arty-maelstrom is something around 5300 damage. That is insufficient to pop most elite cruisers in missions, and certainly insufficient to pop elite battlecruisers and even normal battlecruisers.
I must be cheating then because MY average alpha (according to EFT) is around 6200. I don't know what my max alpha is but I insta-pop NPC battlecruisers more often than not. --------
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Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2009.01.02 21:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: VJ Maverick
I must be cheating then because MY average alpha (according to EFT) is around 6200. I don't know what my max alpha is but I insta-pop NPC battlecruisers more often than not.
You must be using RF EMP ammo and faction gear then. But it does not matter, be your alpha 5300 or 6200, no NPC Battlecruiser has less than 6K HP. And considering resists that means you would need to inflict in excess of 10K damage to pop one of them in a single strike. That is not feasible in a maelstrom no matter what gear you use (ok, maybe full officer can do it).
You must be confusing cruisers and battlecruisers... =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Clueless Alt
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Posted - 2009.01.02 21:32:00 -
[20]
wrecking mate wrecking
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 22:25:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Clueless Alt wrecking mate wrecking
Because wrecking hits are a good measure of a ships dps.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Clueless Alt
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Posted - 2009.01.02 22:29:00 -
[22]
Did I wrote that?
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 22:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Clueless Alt Did I wrote that?
No but saying that a ship is good because it can instapop something when it scores 4 out of 8 wrecking hits is stupid.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Clueless Alt
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Posted - 2009.01.02 23:04:00 -
[24]
Nver wrote that, just that he view bc instapoped, thanks to good quality hit, and the above poster think it can't happen.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 23:54:00 -
[25]
Al right sorry it seemed as though you were trying to reinforce his main argument with it.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Wannabehero
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2009.01.03 00:05:00 -
[26]
To answer the OP
Yes, Artillery is a viable weapon system to use in Missions.
The awful tracking afforded by Artillery can be compensated for by fitting your boat with an afterburner and making the NPC's chase you to reduce transversal.
The lower DPS of artillery is annoying considering the supposed advantages of this weapon system do not outweigh the lower DPS, optimal range, and tracking compared to other long range weapons, but the DPS is still significant enough to easily complete missions.
I tested out a 1200mm fit Tempest in Amarr Navy missions a while back, and my completion time was almost identical to that of my Dual Heavy Pulse Domi that has far greater EFT DPS.
However, while artillery are still 'viable', there is a great deal of room for improvement for this weapon system. I'm not holding my breath though for any Dev attention in this department. --
Don't harsh my mellow |
EmperorPirk
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Posted - 2009.01.03 01:14:00 -
[27]
the 1400mm tempest is a really nice ship for PvE imo. pops most ships below BS class in 1 to 3 salvos. aprox 450-500 dps (arties only).
not sure how arties compare to lasers and hybrids but atleast they got an awesome sound (yes, EVE has sounds) and is just fun to use. but then agin, this signature isn't really relavent to this topic, now is it? |
Jack Jombardo
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.03 05:04:00 -
[28]
High EFT-DPS from Lasor means nothink if you fly against Angels/Gurista/Serpentines!
500 EFT-DPS Geddon == 100 or less DPS real space DPS against non-Sansha/Bloodraider NPC :(.
Ever seen your 7 pimped MegaBeem hit in total for 200 or less damage? If yes you know how creepy EM/THERM only-crystals are!
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Lady Thanatos
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.03 09:57:00 -
[29]
A Mael with Arty's works for me in missions, the only time I ever had too much trouble was when I had a bunch of Merc missions where the Macherials would orbit at 8k and have an angular velocity of .0175 about.
If you are going up against anything other than Mercs, go with arty's. If you get Mercs just slap on some AC's instead.
It may not be the best, but if you are a smart pilot you'll find a way to make it work.
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