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Warp curve

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Eglarest Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.03 05:57:00 - [1] (Probably similar ideas were suggested a thousand times, but I could not find any post. Where is the search engine anyway? Sorry for my noob-ness) Damn... it's so damn ugly to have your ships to pass though stations, planets and moons in order to get to your final warp tube end. Yes, I know the time-shifted warp theory to explain that in EVE two objects can actually exist in same location at "almost same" time. But I personally think that's just an excuse for lazy developers that don't want to spend time fixing this. What about spending some time coding a curved warp path? That is, ship's computer calculate a warp path without stations, asteroids and, most important, celestial objects (moons and planets) on the way. Indeed, it could simulate the use the curvature of space-time continuum due to celestial objects mass to calculate how the warp path can be curved (just a cool explanation to justify my idea, ). In picture below, I scratched how to use the sun to sling-shot your ship from outside an station to a gate (obviously the size of the objects are exaggerated). How difficult would it be to calculate a warp path? How difficult is to design some cool graphics of curved warp tubes? Please don't care about my drawing ability, I'm not an artist.
Infinion Caldari Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2009.01.03 09:50:00 - [2] agreed, this is needed so badly in the game. Every time I have shown eve to friends, they always ask why we can go through planets. It is not easy to change course when going at such high velocities due to the huge amount of inertia. However, the influence of a celestial object's gravitational pull could assist in changing a ships course in warp. You would need to be in a slower warp in order to not escape the gravitational influence too quickly. If that's too hard to recreate then we could at least have an automated process where the ship warps one direction until the path of flight to the destination is clear of all entities, drop out of warp, and warp again to the destination.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.01.03 10:08:00 - [3] Two reasons why this is not a good idea: - Increased travel times - Large amount of navigation calculations for the server Rather a graphical solution should be implemented, displaying in a nice warping way why the ship can pass through solid matter. -------- Ideas for: Mining
NightF0x Gallente Chicken Coup Raiders	Posted - 2009.01.03 10:59:00 - [4] Originally by: Abrazzar Two reasons why this is not a good idea: - Increased travel times - Large amount of navigation calculations for the server Rather a graphical solution should be implemented, displaying in a nice warping way why the ship can pass through solid matter. this. no need to warp around objects because the calculations to the server would just consume processor power needed for many other things more important. ------------------------------------
Erdiere Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.01.03 11:02:00 - [5] Originally by: Infinion agreed, this is needed so badly in the game. Uh, this is something that definitely isn't badly needed in the game. This is one of the things that have never bothered me, and I don't know what kind of medical condition you need in order to find this something that irks you.
Allahs Warrior Gallente Justified Hedonism And Dualism	Posted - 2009.01.03 11:51:00 - [6] Originally by: Abrazzar Two reasons why this is not a good idea: - Increased travel times - Large amount of navigation calculations for the server Rather a graphical solution should be implemented, displaying in a nice warping way why the ship can pass through solid matter. exactly, they could just distort the planet graphically and make a warptunnel sized hole.
Huan CK Gallente Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion	Posted - 2009.01.03 12:03:00 - [7] Originally by: Abrazzar Two reasons why this is not a good idea: - Increased travel times - Large amount of navigation calculations for the server Rather a graphical solution should be implemented, displaying in a nice warping way why the ship can pass through solid matter. This My videos: Watch on youtube.
Mal Foronzonost Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.03 12:46:00 - [8] Originally by: Huan CK Originally by: Abrazzar Rather a graphical solution should be implemented, displaying in a nice warping way why the ship can pass through solid matter. This Und.r C.NsTrkTi.n ..
Mal Foronzonost Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.03 12:51:00 - [9] Edited by: Mal Foronzonost on 03/01/2009 12:52:20 Originally by: Eglarest Edited by: Eglarest on 03/01/2009 06:27:57 Yes, I know the time-shifted warp theory to explain that in EVE two objects can actually exist in same location but perhaps our ships should take on a see-through effect - similar to when cloacking - but blue or something - or stretched longer or something so as not to confuse between real cloaking and warping in general personally i think elongated and semi transparent - blue shimmering would be good Und.r C.NsTrkTi.n ..
Eglarest Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.03 13:19:00 - [10] I would still have to explain my friends why ships pass through solid matter when showing EVE to them. Originally by: Abrazzar - Increased travel times Slingshot effect can make ships travel faster then. Would be nice to make safespots on curved warp as well. And give you a greater degree of control of warp path. Wanna direct flight? Take the station out of your way. Wanna curved path? Get behind something. Of course warp can fail due to "there is no path", but it would happen as much as when you get stucked when trying to start warp close to an asteroid in 0.0 (and you get killed ) Originally by: Abrazzar - Large amount of navigation calculations for the server I am a developer myself. I would need to code some testing program, but from basic experience I remember these trigonometric math calculations are usually handled by units on the processors that are usually not so loaded. They are simple, quick to calculate and would require just a few parametrization bytes to describing the path to be sent back to the client. Not a big overload, I believe, even for thousands of people warping here and there every minute. And don't care about gate campers. They can learn to place their bubbles aligned with large celestial objects whose people are usually slingshoted from, in addition to direct gate trap bubbles. Would slight rise a little the price of anti-warp bubbles due to the small increase of their need, just as any other tuning in the game do for any affected game mechanics. Someone may say "there are better things to spent time with", then I would reply "visual aspects of the game are so important as any other thing in the game. Remember how much effort they spent on Trinity expansion? This is nothing compared to that."
Infinion Caldari Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2009.01.03 17:10:00 - [11] Originally by: Eglarest I would still have to explain my friends why ships pass through solid matter when showing EVE to them. Originally by: Abrazzar - Increased travel times Slingshot effect can make ships travel faster then. Would be nice to make safespots on curved warp as well. And give you a greater degree of control of warp path. Wanna direct flight? Take the station out of your way. Wanna curved path? Get behind something. Of course warp can fail due to "there is no path", but it would happen as much as when you get stucked when trying to start warp close to an asteroid in 0.0 (and you get killed ) Originally by: Abrazzar - Large amount of navigation calculations for the server I am a developer myself. I would need to code some testing program, but from basic experience I remember these trigonometric math calculations are usually handled by units on the processors that are usually not so loaded. They are simple, quick to calculate and would require just a few parametrization bytes to describing the path to be sent back to the client. Not a big overload, I believe, even for thousands of people warping here and there every minute. And don't care about gate campers. They can learn to place their bubbles aligned with large celestial objects whose people are usually slingshoted from, in addition to direct gate trap bubbles. Would slight rise a little the price of anti-warp bubbles due to the small increase of their need, just as any other tuning in the game do for any affected game mechanics. Someone may say "there are better things to spent time with", then I would reply "visual aspects of the game are so important as any other thing in the game. Remember how much effort they spent on Trinity expansion? This is nothing compared to that." this
Onys Cissalc	Posted - 2009.01.03 17:56:00 - [12] Edited by: Onys Cissalc on 03/01/2009 17:59:52 Warp in most sci-fi pictures/videos I've seen generally involves the ship kind of 'falling' or being 'forced' into a void with electrical interference around the ship. the speed of light = 299 792.458 kilometers a second 1 Astronomical Unit = 149 598 000 kilometers So 2au/s and higher is faster than light travel; why can we still see light perfectly during warp? I'm guessing because there are far more important things to fix and improve, graphics wise, than the warp animation, right now. It's not impossible that we will eventually see a more 'realistic' warp animation for the premium client someday, however; especially considering the fact the kind of power available to the developers with modern GPUs means that they have more headroom for eye-candy. It would solve your issue of seeing your ship warping through stations and the like, but then we still have ships that warp at less than 2au/s to think about, such as capitals.
Silvaner Gallente Free Space Initiative FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2009.01.03 17:57:00 - [13] Scientific Article (somewhere in eve-guide): Once the ship has attained FTL speed, it is very difficult for it to act or react to the world, such as for communication or scanning purposes. Also, some matter exists that doesn't react or influence anything around them significantly enough, pretty much "going through" it. You can also assume subspace But yeh, I agree with the aforementioned reasons on server-kill and I'd like not to lose my ship in space if a giant roid is blocking my way. This in no way would make the game anymore realistic. I do like the idea though, reminds me of FTL travel such as the kind in Frank Herbert's Dune series
Acrel Amarr makaveli Inc	Posted - 2009.01.03 18:27:00 - [14] To my understanding warp drives or the idea of warp drives has always been to bend the space around the ship in a sense creating a small wormhole. So your not actually traveling at or above the speed of light but just creating loopholes to speed up travel time. Anything material traveling at or above the speed of light would have to break down into sub particles in order to achieve SOL. As for a change just make a new animation when traveling through warp to remove any celestial objects.
Infinion Caldari Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2009.01.03 18:40:00 - [15] Originally by: Onys Cissalc Edited by: Onys Cissalc on 03/01/2009 17:59:52 Warp in most sci-fi pictures/videos I've seen generally involves the ship kind of 'falling' or being 'forced' into a void with electrical interference around the ship. the speed of light = 299 792.458 kilometers a second 1 Astronomical Unit = 149 598 000 kilometers So 2au/s and higher is faster than light travel; why can we still see light perfectly during warp? Čerenkov radiation
Allahs Warrior Gallente Justified Hedonism And Dualism	Posted - 2009.01.03 18:52:00 - [16] Yay for misunderstanding of physics! Enter physics expert to save the day! Light always travels at the same speed even in water, but it appears to slow down because it has to absorb into whatever it hits and then get emitted again which doesn't happen immediately (while it does happen really fast). In the spaces between atoms it goes full speed though. The electrons beat light in a race through the medium, but they don't go faster than the speed of light. There's a guy who made a superdense liquid which slows light down to 30m/s. Congratulations if you've ever been on an airplane, you've gone faster than the speed of light! How was your blue glow?
Infinion Caldari Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2009.01.03 19:09:00 - [17] in warp, we see blue light ahead of us and red light behind us. This is due to the wavelength of the colors. Blue light has a wavelength of about 475 nm and red light 650 nm. Since blue light has a higher frequency than red light, it travels faster. This is called the Doppler Effect, or Doppler Shift. Doppler Shift from scholarly article Doppler Shift from Wikipedia ignore my previous post, I was trying to remember this, not Čerenkov radiation
Silvaner Gallente Free Space Initiative FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2009.01.03 19:09:00 - [18] Originally by: Allahs Warrior Yay for misunderstanding of physics! Enter physics expert to save the day! Light always travels at the same speed even in water, but it appears to slow down because it has to absorb into whatever it hits and then get emitted again which doesn't happen immediately (while it does happen really fast). In the spaces between atoms it goes full speed though. The electrons beat light in a race through the medium, but they don't go faster than the speed of light. There's a guy who made a superdense liquid which slows light down to 30m/s. Congratulations if you've ever been on an airplane, you've gone faster than the speed of light! How was your blue glow? what does that matter? I think we miss the fact that it's a worm hole, which means you enter one side and go out the other, regardless of what's inbetween; take a piece of paper and fold it in half, poke a hole, unfold paper. You've succeded in bypassing everything. So it's really just a graphical gimmick, which could be fixed, but don't you like sight seeing when you have travel 200au in a BS? One way to realize the warp curve is by that you align to that object just as you do today, but when you warp, you would see your ship go around it while it speeds up (because it does accelerate, it doesn't just suddenly take off) and curve into destination. This would make some bubble tactics interesting (deployed type)
Eglarest Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.03 19:51:00 - [19] Wow... how much technobable... hahaha Simple and straight, I was just thinking about an animation like seen in Stargate movies
Eglarest Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.03 19:57:00 - [20] By the way. The warp waypoint idea is quite a simple and clean solution, definitely better than warp curve on the stress and calculation side. But it would definitely make travels quite longer. The ship would have to get out of the warp, turn, then get int warp again. I prefer the warp curve just because we can go there in one-shot
Infinion Caldari Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2009.01.03 20:17:00 - [21] Originally by: Eglarest By the way. The warp waypoint idea is quite a simple and clean solution, definitely better than warp curve on the stress and calculation side. But it would definitely make travels quite longer. The ship would have to get out of the warp, turn, then get int warp again. I prefer the warp curve just because we can go there in one-shot I agree completely, however, both of the methods would need to exist because if a certain location is in a blind spot of all possible curves, it would be impossible to go there without phasing through a planet
CAREBEAR SPY	Posted - 2009.01.04 04:47:00 - [22] hi all!!!! y not take a trick from Halo n just have ships enter a hyper universe where u kin pass through any matter in the real universe? probably cause problems w/ warp bubbles but 1 kin always have teh warp bubbles act like anchors pullin u outta hyper space. luv ya gals n guys!!!! hugs n kisses
Tasha Voronina Caldari Caldari Navy Reserve Force	Posted - 2009.01.04 11:59:00 - [23] Nice idea, but I have to agree, this would be better solved by either allowing us, the pilots, to add waypoints inside a system for a warp (like you can make waypoints for your autopilot ) or making some sort of animation that makes all spacetime bend around the warp tunnel when passing through solid objects (this would be handled by your local GPU, so no stress on the server). --- Sig will be updated shortly
Onys Cissalc	Posted - 2009.01.04 14:32:00 - [24] Infinion, ok, fine, but you referred to the wavelength of light. Surely the wavelength compresses, the faster against the constant that the speed of light has, you are moving? Light moves as a constant from a source of radiation outwards; unless it actually hits something it does not change direction. In a vacuum, there is nothing (except space dust, planets, etc, as found in space) for it to hit, so it would naturally radiate in a linear direction. Move in the opposite direction and the wavelength should compress, due to the doppler effect; move at the speed of light, in the same direction as the light is radiating, and the wavelength should decompress and become nullified, shouldn't it? Then when you exceed the speed of light, while traveling in the same directly as the light, should the photons not be colliding with your ship's electromagnetic field, generated by the warp drive? I'm hardly a scientist of any sorts, so I'm not arguing here - I'm just wondering.
Avalon Ranger Caldari House Moritani Investment Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.04 15:36:00 - [25] Originally by: Abrazzar Two reasons why this is not a good idea: - Increased travel times Snip Rather a graphical solution should be implemented, displaying in a nice warping way why the ship can pass through solid matter. All that needs changing is the effect while in warp. A warping out effect would be nice. The current warp tunnel is very simple and has been around from a long time. For a game that demands so much immersion it really gets let down by silly graphical issues.
Fenren Minmatar Bure Astro Photography	Posted - 2009.01.04 19:42:00 - [26] Edited by: Fenren on 04/01/2009 19:46:40 Originally by: Onys Cissalc Infinion, ok, fine, but you referred to the wavelength of light. Surely the wavelength compresses, the faster against the constant that the speed of light has, you are moving? Light moves as a constant from a source of radiation outwards; unless it actually hits something it does not change direction. In a vacuum, there is nothing (except space dust, planets, etc, as found in space) for it to hit, so it would naturally radiate in a linear direction. Move in the opposite direction and the wavelength should compress, due to the doppler effect; move at the speed of light, in the same direction as the light is radiating, and the wavelength should decompress and become nullified, shouldn't it? Then when you exceed the speed of light, while traveling in the same directly as the light, should the photons not be colliding with your ship's electromagnetic field, generated by the warp drive? I'm hardly a scientist of any sorts, so I'm not arguing here - I'm just wondering. no, you can bend light with something heavy. that is used alot in astronomy to watch hidden objects, just bend the light around the sun or jupiter or a galaxy edit: and to travel at, or close to, the speed of light, is like playing Quake with fov 1. (all you see is a little tiny point in wich the whole universe seems to be compressed. that is because you will move into all photons and from your point of view they stand still.)
Ivena Amethyst	Posted - 2009.01.04 22:23:00 - [27] the devs talked about this at fanfest according to what they say it was origially supposed to be a big gameplay element to be able to bend your warp around planets to end up at a different place depending on your warp path the reason they removed it was warps git very long (=more cap need+time need) when you had to warp around everything rether then through it -------- Is that an Itty V in your pocket or ar you just happy to see me?
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.01.04 22:46:00 - [28] For the purists, you could just dump a few bookmarks at strategic places in the system - such as above or below each station and planet - which would then give you the clearance you need to be able to cleanly warp from point A to point B without going through planets. Get in a fast frigate with a MWD, point up and fly that way while you're having dinner! Then we can go flooding the game with "sensible warp" bookmarks and force the developers to take action like they did for WTZ.
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council.	Posted - 2009.01.05 03:04:00 - [29] Originally by: Abrazzar Two reasons why this is not a good idea: - Increased travel times - Large amount of navigation calculations for the server Rather a graphical solution should be implemented, displaying in a nice warping way why the ship can pass through solid matter. this Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
Infinion Caldari Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2009.01.05 05:22:00 - [30] Originally by: Ivena Amethyst the devs talked about this at fanfest according to what they say it was origially supposed to be a big gameplay element to be able to bend your warp around planets to end up at a different place depending on your warp path the reason they removed it was warps git very long (=more cap need+time need) when you had to warp around everything rether then through it as it stands right now, the time it takes to warp isn't long at all since most warp distances range from 15-30 AU besides the occasional 100 AU warps. If they are concerned about how much longer it'll take to get somewhere in warp, they can just change the dynamics of warping to make it shorter than it would be.

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