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agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:28:00 - [1] The reason I m posting this ôwall of textö is because I m hoping that someone will read it and maybe prove me wrong , I m really looking for a reason to convince myself not to quit EVE. I played most of the popular MMOs(at least on trials) and EvE online is definitely the best game. Its more mature and hardcore, also extremely complex and PVP oriented comparing to other MMOs. But I cant play it anymore because of simple reason, I cant pay for the game and GTC with ISK prices are simply stupid. Now I will make some explanations first: 1. I donÆt know the real reason why the GTCs r so expensive now but my theory is that the world economy crisis lowered the amount of GTC sellers (simply they cant afford it anymore) also the demand increased resulting in increase of the GTC prices. However I think that realmoney isk sellers donÆt mind if the price is this high because they use exploits and macro miners to make isk, also I believe they donÆt pay with real money to play so they will buy GTC even the price is over a billionà this way the good players that play with ISK are eliminated(I consider myself as good player to this game society). 2. I have work, I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. So make some math(open calc, type your salary-12.5%=eve subscription monthly) and u will how I feel about paying the game with real money. 3. So I need 11mil/day for GTC +30mil/day for PvP(I m PvP player, on every MMO I play strictly PvP), I can make 20mil/hour doing lvl4s in Golem t2 fitted so I need to farm 2hours/day to cover expensesà but my average time online is 3hours/day(checked with Visual TimeAnalyzer) thatÆs 65% of my online time in farming! I hate farming! And there r days that I donÆt farm atall I just log, chat, check stuff and logoutà I cant play hardcore like few years ago, I have too much RL obligations. ThatÆs ok life is hard :D , now the real reason why I m thinking to quit EVE: I played WOW,AOC,LOtR and tons of more MMOs but when I discovered EVE I said, there is the game I will play until It exists. However most of my RL friends still play WoW and yesterday we had a conversation and I made some statistics:60day GTC In WOW now cost ~4k gold(buying GTCs with gold in WOW its not legal but no one I know got banned, I played 3years like that) I need to make 66gold/day for GTC, every player can do daily quests(same as doing missions) at lvl80 and make minimum 250g/hour I wonÆt be under 300g/hour. ThatÆs 7.3% of my total playtime spent for farming, lets add some for repairs and expenses lets say 20%. Yes I know WoW Is kiddish and crapy compared to EVE but 65% of the time spend in doing lvl4sà no not WOW, minesweeper sounds more fun. Lately I just log and when I realize how much ISK I need to farm I just pres ctrl+q, I m really disappointed. CCP should find some strategy to fix this because I believe that many good players will leave the game.
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:32:00 - [2] RL comes first, just DL a bunch of the great single player games, and save yourself the fee. Laters. The Ghost-training vote thread
Methicone Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:34:00 - [3] Go play WOW?
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:35:00 - [4] Originally by: Gunnanmon RL comes first, just DL a bunch of the great single player games, and save yourself the fee. Laters. true, but my calculations makes me believe that i will have more fun playing other mmo with the same playtime(RL comes first but what to do with those 3h/day that i spend playing?)
Kulmid The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:35:00 - [5] can I have your stuff? _________________
Asestorian Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:36:00 - [6] Or not. GTC prices are high because people are willing to pay that much for them. It's pretty simple really. CCP don't even particularly like people paying for the game with GTCs instead of credit cards or other normal ways. Also, you don't need to farm to get ISK. Well, you might, but that's your own fault/problem. --- Originally by: CCP Atropos Destiny Balls
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:39:00 - [7] Originally by: Kulmid can I have your stuff? you will get too rich and die young overdosing on drugs
Kulmid The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:40:00 - [8] more contructively... Originally by: agroculture two CCP should find some strategy to fix this because I believe that many good players will leave the game. you should find a way to increase how much ISK/hour you make. Missioning is one of the money ways to make ISK. And easily the most time intensive. _________________
Kulmid The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:40:00 - [9] Originally by: agroculture two Originally by: Kulmid can I have your stuff? you will get too rich and die young overdosing on drugs apparently I won't be very rich if I get your stuff, you can't even afford 11mil/day or whatever it is. _________________
Gideon Eisenhorn	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:41:00 - [10] I can haves your stuffs? ok seriously though, if you feel like that then obviously maybe a break from eve will do you good, you may come back you might not, without ghost training it does make coming back less desirable.. As I believe someone else said, RL comes first, remember you can always come back to eve, but RL needs to be up top, you only live each day once

Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:42:00 - [11] Tbh paying via GTCs works out at about 10m/day. Not that much, really. The Ghost-training vote thread
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:43:00 - [12] Originally by: Asestoria Also, you don't need to farm to get ISK. Well, you might, but that's your own fault/problem. there is a way to make ISK w/o farming? can u tell me what u do, dont explain the technique just in one word... what u do to get ISK?
Asestorian Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:44:00 - [13] Originally by: agroculture two Originally by: Asestoria Also, you don't need to farm to get ISK. Well, you might, but that's your own fault/problem. there is a way to make ISK w/o farming? can u tell me what u do, dont explain the technique just in one word... what u do to get ISK? People make ISK from scamming, trading, manufacturing, PvP, moon mining, investments and otherwise being tricky and clever. Grinding missions, rats or roids are the most obvious ways of making money, but they certainly aren't the only or even best ways of doing it. --- Originally by: CCP Atropos Destiny Balls
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:57:00 - [14] Originally by: Asestorian Or not. GTC prices are high because people are willing to pay that much for them. It's pretty simple really. CCP don't even particularly like people paying for the game with GTCs instead of credit cards or other normal ways. Also, you don't need to farm to get ISK. Well, you might, but that's your own fault/problem. I love how you can spot a GTC seller from a mile away on these forums >_< It is true that what people are willing to pay is part of why GTC prices are as high as they are, but that is but one small contributing factor. First and foremost, this price hike was caused by CCP's genius idea to increase GTC prices. Good for business? Maybe. But it not only directly increased the prices of GTCs in a $ per month sense, but forced many casual GTC sellers to either cough up the equivalent of a 90day (a big step up from the 30day codes that came before them) or not buy isk. Combine that inability to pull in casual sellers with the economy being the way that it is and you've got a huge drop in GTC supply, causing the price of each GTC to go up. Prices didn't double over the course of a month just because people were willing to pay that much, or else we'd have seen such prices ages ago. The 60day GTC crap that CCP pulled is the main cause of the current GTC prices.
Neamus	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:00:00 - [15] A single lvl 4 mission will make you around 10m, hardly farming.. Then there are the multiple alternate methods posted above. Probably the most lucrative method is market pvp, but its not easy.
Elrca Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:00:00 - [16] Another GTC whine? /sticks 2p in If people stop buying GTCs at thesecrazy prices, the prices will fall. I refuse to buy them now which means 1 account ends this month and the other in June. I can't afford to pay by CC, and I am not grind 10mil/day just to play the game.
Shadowschild	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:05:00 - [17] It's clear that agroculture two is too cheap to cough up the monthly fee. $15.00 is a joke.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:07:00 - [18] Originally by: agroculture two However I think that realmoney isk sellers don’t mind if the price is this high because they use exploits and macro miners to make isk, also I believe they don’t pay with real money to play so they will buy GTC even the price is over a billion… I'm sure they mind — it cuts into their profits because they have to spend more ISK (or use money) to keep their bots going, and the higher the ISK prices on GTCs go, the more attractive it is to go the legal route to convert cash into ISK. Assuming that you're right about their using GTCs, increased GTC-for-ISK prices means that both their margins and their customer base shrinks… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
FlameGlow Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:09:00 - [19] Originally by: agroculture two 1. I don’t know the real reason why the GTCs r so expensive now but my theory is that the world economy crisis lowered the amount of GTC sellers (simply they cant afford it anymore) also the demand increased resulting in increase of the GTC prices. However I think that realmoney isk sellers don’t mind if the price is this high because they use exploits and macro miners to make isk, also I believe they don’t pay with real money to play so they will buy GTC even the price is over a billion… this way the good players that play with ISK are eliminated(I consider myself as good player to this game society). 2. I have work, I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. So make some math(open calc, type your salary-12.5%=eve subscription monthly) and u will how I feel about paying the game with real money. 3. So I need 11mil/day for GTC +30mil/day for PvP(I m PvP player, on every MMO I play strictly PvP), I can make 20mil/hour doing lvl4s in Golem t2 fitted so I need to farm 2hours/day to cover expenses… but my average time online is 3hours/day(checked with Visual TimeAnalyzer) that’s 65% of my online time in farming! I hate farming! And there r days that I don’t farm atall I just log, chat, check stuff and logout… I cant play hardcore like few years ago, I have too much RL obligations. Considering your arguments I've come to conclusion you're not qualified to play this game, kthnxbye, contract me your stuff on your way out. _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
123GuessWho	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:30:00 - [20] WALL OF TEXT AAAAHHHHHH If someone else needs to tell you to keep playing.... send me your isk n assets n just quit n find a new game

agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:40:00 - [21] Also, Ç120/month?! Holy hell! That doesn't even cover my food costs ù never mind actually having a roof over my headà 120euros r enough for one person(when u convert them to our money) problem is that i pay same price for the game as those high standard countries, 15euros in england is one beer in pub but where i am u can get smashed drunk with that much money :)
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:42:00 - [22] Originally by: 123GuessWho WALL OF TEXT AAAAHHHHHH If someone else needs to tell you to keep playing.... send me your isk n assets n just quit n find a new game for me another proof that EVE does not have that much better community than WOW
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:53:00 - [23] i don't know how happened but this post turned about the GTC prices only... actually i just wanted to compare farm/fun with WOW, ok forget the GTCs i will farm for them... i kinda spend too much time farming in this game maybe i m bad at making isk but its getting too boring
WarlockX Amarr Free Trade Corp	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:07:00 - [24] msg me in game, I would be willing to pay for your account on some conditions: 1 - you join my corp and fight for amarr militia. 2 - i get your account if you ever quit. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page "Nothing about Eve should be easy. Not even ganking." -Rhohan
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:32:00 - [25] Originally by: WarlockX msg me in game, I would be willing to pay for your account on some conditions: 1 - you join my corp and fight for amarr militia. 2 - i get your account if you ever quit. thx for the offer but no. and that's not my point. i wanted to start discussion about the game not about me... i expect there will be more ppl that will share my opinions... guess i m wrong. anyone else feel like u need to farm too much, to spend to much time doing that? it frustrates me, anyone else feel that? if not than the problem is in me.
Ralarina Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:35:00 - [26] Edited by: Ralarina on 05/01/2009 16:36:16 Originally by: agroculture two Originally by: WarlockX msg me in game, I would be willing to pay for your account on some conditions: 1 - you join my corp and fight for amarr militia. 2 - i get your account if you ever quit. thx for the offer but no. and that's not my point. i wanted to start discussion about the game not about me... i expect there will be more ppl that will share my opinions... guess i m wrong. anyone else feel like u need to farm too much, to spend to much time doing that? it frustrates me, anyone else feel that? if not than the problem is in me. to be honest, you shouldn't play. You don't make enough RL money to pay for the game and you're damn lucky that CCP offer the trading ISK / GTC option... but if you don't play enough to make the isk to play for free... well tough. Stop playing. "But I wanna!!! " Yeah, well I want a 63 inch plasma TV but I can't have one. That's life. Stop wasting 3 hours a night on pixels in Internet Spaceships and get a second job so your total monthly income is more than an average person's food budget. I am honestly sick of these whiney threads made by people who either can't or outright wont pay for the game with real life money, then complain when the free option (GTC via ISK) is "too expensive". Good god. "Eve" is not a right. It's not a fundamental part of a UN charter; it's an internet spaceship game. If you cant or wont pay for it, then 6ugger off. --
Strel Samodelkin Caldari Nationalist Party	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:40:00 - [27] You don't necessarily have to mission run. I mission run because it is not very risky, and I often EASILY exceed 20 million isk per hour! In Eve you can make billions of isk per month, if you're familiar with how the amazingly complex market works. Me and my wife make about 6 figures, but nontheless I like to buy GTC with isk, because I'm THAT CHEAP . Believe me, I DO NOT use macro miner programs as you assumed in point number 1. Fact is, most people do not. By the way, macro programs are generally very easy to spot, NOONE can make actions like that with that kind of millisecond precision. Caldari Nationalist Party
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:42:00 - [28] Originally by: Ralarina Edited by: Ralarina on 05/01/2009 16:36:16 Originally by: agroculture two Originally by: WarlockX msg me in game, I would be willing to pay for your account on some conditions: 1 - you join my corp and fight for amarr militia. 2 - i get your account if you ever quit. thx for the offer but no. and that's not my point. i wanted to start discussion about the game not about me... i expect there will be more ppl that will share my opinions... guess i m wrong. anyone else feel like u need to farm too much, to spend to much time doing that? it frustrates me, anyone else feel that? if not than the problem is in me. to be honest, you shouldn't play. You don't make enough RL money to pay for the game and you're damn lucky that CCP offer the trading ISK / GTC option... but if you don't play enough to make the isk to play for free... well tough. Stop playing. "But I wanna!!! " Yeah, well I want a 63 inch plasma TV but I can't have one. That's life. Stop wasting 3 hours a night on pixels in Internet Spaceships and get a second job so your total monthly income is more than an average person's food budget. I am honestly sick of these whiney threads made by people who either can't or outright wont pay for the game with real life money, then complain when the free option (GTC via ISK) is "too expensive". Good god. "Eve" is not a right. It's not a fundamental part of a UN charter; it's an internet spaceship game. If you cant or wont pay for it, then 6ugger off. ok this starts to annoy me... i said on a reply little above, GTCs prices are not the main issue. just try to answer this, do u think that this game involves too much PVE farming? i think that is a problem with this game, maybe i m wrong but please lets talk about that.
Ralarina Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:45:00 - [29] Edited by: Ralarina on 05/01/2009 16:45:53 Originally by: agroculture two No, I do not think this game involves too much PVE farming. It's a sandbox; you can PVE if you want to; there's nothing forcing you to PVE. I've not done a mission in about a year, I've not ratted for 4 months and im making more money than I'm losing. "You're doing it wrong." is all I can say. --
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:47:00 - [30] EVE is not really expencive, but I can understand that the younguns that don't have money. Try and do a bit of work, not much, but help out some frinds/familiy by moving the lawn and such. Its easier and less work to pay for EVE that way then grinding for isk ;). And you get RL expereinces :).



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