EVE Search - Prove Me Wrong

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Prove Me Wrong

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:28:00 - [1] The reason I m posting this ôwall of textö is because I m hoping that someone will read it and maybe prove me wrong , I m really looking for a reason to convince myself not to quit EVE. I played most of the popular MMOs(at least on trials) and EvE online is definitely the best game. Its more mature and hardcore, also extremely complex and PVP oriented comparing to other MMOs. But I cant play it anymore because of simple reason, I cant pay for the game and GTC with ISK prices are simply stupid. Now I will make some explanations first: 1. I donÆt know the real reason why the GTCs r so expensive now but my theory is that the world economy crisis lowered the amount of GTC sellers (simply they cant afford it anymore) also the demand increased resulting in increase of the GTC prices. However I think that realmoney isk sellers donÆt mind if the price is this high because they use exploits and macro miners to make isk, also I believe they donÆt pay with real money to play so they will buy GTC even the price is over a billionà this way the good players that play with ISK are eliminated(I consider myself as good player to this game society). 2. I have work, I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. So make some math(open calc, type your salary-12.5%=eve subscription monthly) and u will how I feel about paying the game with real money. 3. So I need 11mil/day for GTC +30mil/day for PvP(I m PvP player, on every MMO I play strictly PvP), I can make 20mil/hour doing lvl4s in Golem t2 fitted so I need to farm 2hours/day to cover expensesà but my average time online is 3hours/day(checked with Visual TimeAnalyzer) thatÆs 65% of my online time in farming! I hate farming! And there r days that I donÆt farm atall I just log, chat, check stuff and logoutà I cant play hardcore like few years ago, I have too much RL obligations. ThatÆs ok life is hard :D , now the real reason why I m thinking to quit EVE: I played WOW,AOC,LOtR and tons of more MMOs but when I discovered EVE I said, there is the game I will play until It exists. However most of my RL friends still play WoW and yesterday we had a conversation and I made some statistics:60day GTC In WOW now cost ~4k gold(buying GTCs with gold in WOW its not legal but no one I know got banned, I played 3years like that) I need to make 66gold/day for GTC, every player can do daily quests(same as doing missions) at lvl80 and make minimum 250g/hour I wonÆt be under 300g/hour. ThatÆs 7.3% of my total playtime spent for farming, lets add some for repairs and expenses lets say 20%. Yes I know WoW Is kiddish and crapy compared to EVE but 65% of the time spend in doing lvl4sà no not WOW, minesweeper sounds more fun. Lately I just log and when I realize how much ISK I need to farm I just pres ctrl+q, I m really disappointed. CCP should find some strategy to fix this because I believe that many good players will leave the game.
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:32:00 - [2] RL comes first, just DL a bunch of the great single player games, and save yourself the fee. Laters. The Ghost-training vote thread
Methicone Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:34:00 - [3] Go play WOW?
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:35:00 - [4] Originally by: Gunnanmon RL comes first, just DL a bunch of the great single player games, and save yourself the fee. Laters. true, but my calculations makes me believe that i will have more fun playing other mmo with the same playtime(RL comes first but what to do with those 3h/day that i spend playing?)
Kulmid The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:35:00 - [5] can I have your stuff? _________________
Asestorian Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:36:00 - [6] Or not. GTC prices are high because people are willing to pay that much for them. It's pretty simple really. CCP don't even particularly like people paying for the game with GTCs instead of credit cards or other normal ways. Also, you don't need to farm to get ISK. Well, you might, but that's your own fault/problem. --- Originally by: CCP Atropos Destiny Balls
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:39:00 - [7] Originally by: Kulmid can I have your stuff? you will get too rich and die young overdosing on drugs
Kulmid The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:40:00 - [8] more contructively... Originally by: agroculture two CCP should find some strategy to fix this because I believe that many good players will leave the game. you should find a way to increase how much ISK/hour you make. Missioning is one of the money ways to make ISK. And easily the most time intensive. _________________
Kulmid The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:40:00 - [9] Originally by: agroculture two Originally by: Kulmid can I have your stuff? you will get too rich and die young overdosing on drugs apparently I won't be very rich if I get your stuff, you can't even afford 11mil/day or whatever it is. _________________
Gideon Eisenhorn	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:41:00 - [10] I can haves your stuffs? ok seriously though, if you feel like that then obviously maybe a break from eve will do you good, you may come back you might not, without ghost training it does make coming back less desirable.. As I believe someone else said, RL comes first, remember you can always come back to eve, but RL needs to be up top, you only live each day once

Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:42:00 - [11] Tbh paying via GTCs works out at about 10m/day. Not that much, really. The Ghost-training vote thread
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:43:00 - [12] Originally by: Asestoria Also, you don't need to farm to get ISK. Well, you might, but that's your own fault/problem. there is a way to make ISK w/o farming? can u tell me what u do, dont explain the technique just in one word... what u do to get ISK?
Asestorian Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:44:00 - [13] Originally by: agroculture two Originally by: Asestoria Also, you don't need to farm to get ISK. Well, you might, but that's your own fault/problem. there is a way to make ISK w/o farming? can u tell me what u do, dont explain the technique just in one word... what u do to get ISK? People make ISK from scamming, trading, manufacturing, PvP, moon mining, investments and otherwise being tricky and clever. Grinding missions, rats or roids are the most obvious ways of making money, but they certainly aren't the only or even best ways of doing it. --- Originally by: CCP Atropos Destiny Balls
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:57:00 - [14] Originally by: Asestorian Or not. GTC prices are high because people are willing to pay that much for them. It's pretty simple really. CCP don't even particularly like people paying for the game with GTCs instead of credit cards or other normal ways. Also, you don't need to farm to get ISK. Well, you might, but that's your own fault/problem. I love how you can spot a GTC seller from a mile away on these forums >_< It is true that what people are willing to pay is part of why GTC prices are as high as they are, but that is but one small contributing factor. First and foremost, this price hike was caused by CCP's genius idea to increase GTC prices. Good for business? Maybe. But it not only directly increased the prices of GTCs in a $ per month sense, but forced many casual GTC sellers to either cough up the equivalent of a 90day (a big step up from the 30day codes that came before them) or not buy isk. Combine that inability to pull in casual sellers with the economy being the way that it is and you've got a huge drop in GTC supply, causing the price of each GTC to go up. Prices didn't double over the course of a month just because people were willing to pay that much, or else we'd have seen such prices ages ago. The 60day GTC crap that CCP pulled is the main cause of the current GTC prices.
Neamus	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:00:00 - [15] A single lvl 4 mission will make you around 10m, hardly farming.. Then there are the multiple alternate methods posted above. Probably the most lucrative method is market pvp, but its not easy.
Elrca Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:00:00 - [16] Another GTC whine? /sticks 2p in If people stop buying GTCs at thesecrazy prices, the prices will fall. I refuse to buy them now which means 1 account ends this month and the other in June. I can't afford to pay by CC, and I am not grind 10mil/day just to play the game.
Shadowschild	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:05:00 - [17] It's clear that agroculture two is too cheap to cough up the monthly fee. $15.00 is a joke.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:07:00 - [18] Originally by: agroculture two However I think that realmoney isk sellers don’t mind if the price is this high because they use exploits and macro miners to make isk, also I believe they don’t pay with real money to play so they will buy GTC even the price is over a billion… I'm sure they mind — it cuts into their profits because they have to spend more ISK (or use money) to keep their bots going, and the higher the ISK prices on GTCs go, the more attractive it is to go the legal route to convert cash into ISK. Assuming that you're right about their using GTCs, increased GTC-for-ISK prices means that both their margins and their customer base shrinks… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
FlameGlow Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:09:00 - [19] Originally by: agroculture two 1. I don’t know the real reason why the GTCs r so expensive now but my theory is that the world economy crisis lowered the amount of GTC sellers (simply they cant afford it anymore) also the demand increased resulting in increase of the GTC prices. However I think that realmoney isk sellers don’t mind if the price is this high because they use exploits and macro miners to make isk, also I believe they don’t pay with real money to play so they will buy GTC even the price is over a billion… this way the good players that play with ISK are eliminated(I consider myself as good player to this game society). 2. I have work, I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. So make some math(open calc, type your salary-12.5%=eve subscription monthly) and u will how I feel about paying the game with real money. 3. So I need 11mil/day for GTC +30mil/day for PvP(I m PvP player, on every MMO I play strictly PvP), I can make 20mil/hour doing lvl4s in Golem t2 fitted so I need to farm 2hours/day to cover expenses… but my average time online is 3hours/day(checked with Visual TimeAnalyzer) that’s 65% of my online time in farming! I hate farming! And there r days that I don’t farm atall I just log, chat, check stuff and logout… I cant play hardcore like few years ago, I have too much RL obligations. Considering your arguments I've come to conclusion you're not qualified to play this game, kthnxbye, contract me your stuff on your way out. _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
123GuessWho	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:30:00 - [20] WALL OF TEXT AAAAHHHHHH If someone else needs to tell you to keep playing.... send me your isk n assets n just quit n find a new game

agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:40:00 - [21] Also, Ç120/month?! Holy hell! That doesn't even cover my food costs ù never mind actually having a roof over my headà 120euros r enough for one person(when u convert them to our money) problem is that i pay same price for the game as those high standard countries, 15euros in england is one beer in pub but where i am u can get smashed drunk with that much money :)
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:42:00 - [22] Originally by: 123GuessWho WALL OF TEXT AAAAHHHHHH If someone else needs to tell you to keep playing.... send me your isk n assets n just quit n find a new game for me another proof that EVE does not have that much better community than WOW
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:53:00 - [23] i don't know how happened but this post turned about the GTC prices only... actually i just wanted to compare farm/fun with WOW, ok forget the GTCs i will farm for them... i kinda spend too much time farming in this game maybe i m bad at making isk but its getting too boring
WarlockX Amarr Free Trade Corp	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:07:00 - [24] msg me in game, I would be willing to pay for your account on some conditions: 1 - you join my corp and fight for amarr militia. 2 - i get your account if you ever quit. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page "Nothing about Eve should be easy. Not even ganking." -Rhohan
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:32:00 - [25] Originally by: WarlockX msg me in game, I would be willing to pay for your account on some conditions: 1 - you join my corp and fight for amarr militia. 2 - i get your account if you ever quit. thx for the offer but no. and that's not my point. i wanted to start discussion about the game not about me... i expect there will be more ppl that will share my opinions... guess i m wrong. anyone else feel like u need to farm too much, to spend to much time doing that? it frustrates me, anyone else feel that? if not than the problem is in me.
Ralarina Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:35:00 - [26] Edited by: Ralarina on 05/01/2009 16:36:16 Originally by: agroculture two Originally by: WarlockX msg me in game, I would be willing to pay for your account on some conditions: 1 - you join my corp and fight for amarr militia. 2 - i get your account if you ever quit. thx for the offer but no. and that's not my point. i wanted to start discussion about the game not about me... i expect there will be more ppl that will share my opinions... guess i m wrong. anyone else feel like u need to farm too much, to spend to much time doing that? it frustrates me, anyone else feel that? if not than the problem is in me. to be honest, you shouldn't play. You don't make enough RL money to pay for the game and you're damn lucky that CCP offer the trading ISK / GTC option... but if you don't play enough to make the isk to play for free... well tough. Stop playing. "But I wanna!!! " Yeah, well I want a 63 inch plasma TV but I can't have one. That's life. Stop wasting 3 hours a night on pixels in Internet Spaceships and get a second job so your total monthly income is more than an average person's food budget. I am honestly sick of these whiney threads made by people who either can't or outright wont pay for the game with real life money, then complain when the free option (GTC via ISK) is "too expensive". Good god. "Eve" is not a right. It's not a fundamental part of a UN charter; it's an internet spaceship game. If you cant or wont pay for it, then 6ugger off. --
Strel Samodelkin Caldari Nationalist Party	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:40:00 - [27] You don't necessarily have to mission run. I mission run because it is not very risky, and I often EASILY exceed 20 million isk per hour! In Eve you can make billions of isk per month, if you're familiar with how the amazingly complex market works. Me and my wife make about 6 figures, but nontheless I like to buy GTC with isk, because I'm THAT CHEAP . Believe me, I DO NOT use macro miner programs as you assumed in point number 1. Fact is, most people do not. By the way, macro programs are generally very easy to spot, NOONE can make actions like that with that kind of millisecond precision. Caldari Nationalist Party
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:42:00 - [28] Originally by: Ralarina Edited by: Ralarina on 05/01/2009 16:36:16 Originally by: agroculture two Originally by: WarlockX msg me in game, I would be willing to pay for your account on some conditions: 1 - you join my corp and fight for amarr militia. 2 - i get your account if you ever quit. thx for the offer but no. and that's not my point. i wanted to start discussion about the game not about me... i expect there will be more ppl that will share my opinions... guess i m wrong. anyone else feel like u need to farm too much, to spend to much time doing that? it frustrates me, anyone else feel that? if not than the problem is in me. to be honest, you shouldn't play. You don't make enough RL money to pay for the game and you're damn lucky that CCP offer the trading ISK / GTC option... but if you don't play enough to make the isk to play for free... well tough. Stop playing. "But I wanna!!! " Yeah, well I want a 63 inch plasma TV but I can't have one. That's life. Stop wasting 3 hours a night on pixels in Internet Spaceships and get a second job so your total monthly income is more than an average person's food budget. I am honestly sick of these whiney threads made by people who either can't or outright wont pay for the game with real life money, then complain when the free option (GTC via ISK) is "too expensive". Good god. "Eve" is not a right. It's not a fundamental part of a UN charter; it's an internet spaceship game. If you cant or wont pay for it, then 6ugger off. ok this starts to annoy me... i said on a reply little above, GTCs prices are not the main issue. just try to answer this, do u think that this game involves too much PVE farming? i think that is a problem with this game, maybe i m wrong but please lets talk about that.
Ralarina Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:45:00 - [29] Edited by: Ralarina on 05/01/2009 16:45:53 Originally by: agroculture two No, I do not think this game involves too much PVE farming. It's a sandbox; you can PVE if you want to; there's nothing forcing you to PVE. I've not done a mission in about a year, I've not ratted for 4 months and im making more money than I'm losing. "You're doing it wrong." is all I can say. --
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:47:00 - [30] EVE is not really expencive, but I can understand that the younguns that don't have money. Try and do a bit of work, not much, but help out some frinds/familiy by moving the lawn and such. Its easier and less work to pay for EVE that way then grinding for isk ;). And you get RL expereinces :).

agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:49:00 - [31] Originally by: Ralarina Edited by: Ralarina on 05/01/2009 16:45:53 Originally by: agroculture two No, I do not think this game involves too much PVE farming. It's a sandbox; you can PVE if you want to; there's nothing forcing you to PVE. I've not done a mission in about a year, I've not ratted for 4 months and im making more money than I'm losing. "You're doing it wrong." is all I can say. do u pvp?
SniperWo1f Omega Enterprises 0mega Factor	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:49:00 - [32] Edited by: SniperWo1f on 05/01/2009 16:50:07 Originally by: Ralarina Edited by: Ralarina on 05/01/2009 16:45:53 Originally by: agroculture two No, I do not think this game involves too much PVE farming. It's a sandbox; you can PVE if you want to; there's nothing forcing you to PVE. I've not done a mission in about a year, I've not ratted for 4 months and im making more money than I'm losing. "You're doing it wrong." is all I can say. that pretty much sums it up in the beginning you have to generate isk but with the right investments you make not even make million but you'll have enough to enjoy the game. im not going to commenton the gtc thing at all because if you can't afford to pay straight cash to play eve then tbh you shouldn't be you should be taking care of rl "In Rust We Trust"
Asestorian Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:56:00 - [33] Originally by: Cambarus I love how you can spot a GTC seller from a mile away on these forums >_< I've never sold a GTC. I've never bought a GTC, or otherwise owned one --- Originally by: CCP Atropos Destiny Balls
James LeMort	Posted - 2009.01.05 17:00:00 - [34] You like to pvp, you need around 40 mil isk/day to geta gtc and sik to pvp with, why niot hire you'reself out as a mercenary for 50 mil isk/day. If you can market you're services you can earn the isk you need and get all the pvp you want
Ralarina Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2009.01.05 17:01:00 - [35] Edited by: Ralarina on 05/01/2009 17:02:16 Originally by: agroculture two Originally by: Ralarina Edited by: Ralarina on 05/01/2009 16:45:53 Originally by: agroculture two No, I do not think this game involves too much PVE farming. It's a sandbox; you can PVE if you want to; there's nothing forcing you to PVE. I've not done a mission in about a year, I've not ratted for 4 months and im making more money than I'm losing. "You're doing it wrong." is all I can say. do u pvp? Yes, for about 3 or 4 hours each night, in faction ships or ships with faction fittings with all the HG pirate implant sets etc. And yes I lose them on a regular basis ... and no, I don't sell GTC for it. Or what, you thought Vivicide was the name of a mining corp? --
Kurt Gergard Caldari Husarian Loyalists	Posted - 2009.01.05 17:15:00 - [36] I'll bite. First of all making 25 mil/h in a faction fitted cnr or golem is realy easy so you can cut down the time needed to make your isk. There are other things to do as well that will bring you bigger proft - setup your industrial corp and take advantage over other members of your corp. P.S. I do not think that the problem lies in "too much farming" but rather in "farming is boring as hell". If this is your point than yes I agree CCP please make farming fun not feeling like a second job I need to pay for :D ================================================ "No plan has ever survived the contact with the enemy" von Moltke
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.05 17:17:00 - [37] Here's proof: EVE is the only game where you CAN buy gametime with money earned. And, 120e/month is nowhere average and you will lose more then 12e/month if you don't play. Playing saves, if you count in all the food/others stuff you DON'T use while playing, alot. I've calculated a good 20e/month saved with an active game. More so even. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Ralarina Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2009.01.05 17:38:00 - [38] Originally by: Kurt Gergard "farming is boring as hell". If this is your point than yes I agree I'd say "PvE" is boring as hell. --
Cyrus Brown	Posted - 2009.01.05 17:53:00 - [39] Get a job.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.05 17:56:00 - [40] 1) GTC Sellers are still there, the reason the price skyrocketed is the RL Money cost of a 60D GTC. RMT don't mind at prices, so they just put WTB GTC on the forum and someone will eventually give 'em. 2) Your average salary is extremely low. 3) Stop playing then. 4) YOu'll spend over 90% of your playtime in WOW Farming, no matter how much a GTC costs there. 5) your name should be agriculture two. there, i proved you wrong. ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.

Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2009.01.05 18:04:00 - [41] Edited by: Gnomes Rock on 05/01/2009 18:03:57 Originally by: agroculture two 120euros r enough for one person(when u convert them to our money) problem is that i pay same price for the game as those high standard countries, 15euros in england is one beer in pub but where i am u can get smashed drunk with that much money :) 15euros in England is enough for about 5~ pints.
Lui Kai Better Than You	Posted - 2009.01.05 18:22:00 - [42] So...a month's play isn't worth 15 euro to you, but someone else should pay 15 euro and sell it for less isk? If you're having to hardcore farm to fund your account - you're doing it wrong. ----------------
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2009.01.05 18:35:00 - [43] What a bunch of ***s. The guy said the average salary in his country in 120 euros. not that his* average income is 120 euros. about 90% of your comments are totally invalid if you actually bother to grasp this simple fact. "You'll spend more if you don't play" - no he won't. The local costs of living are geared to low income. Eve is 12% of his monthly income which for me would mean paying $800 a month to play. "You're ******ed to spend that much of your income on a game" - He's not. He plays with GTCs. If he couldn't pay with ISK then he can't play. "Get a job" - He's got a fuggin job already. The problem, Mr Two, is that most people do not pay to play with ISK, they pay with real $. So then they only need to farm or trade or build enough to pay for their ships. Some months that might be zero. So no, there isn't too much farming needed to play eve. It just so happens that Eve is the only game that lets you pay with ISK so some people end up farming a lot to play. Now, this scheme was intended so that people with no money and lots of time could trade some of their time with people with the opposite problem: lots of money but no time. This works pretty well, but you live in a little corner where the equation is fubar'd because of the low value of your local currency. So you haven't got lots of time to spend farming, but you haven't got enough RL money either. It's a catch-22. There's really not a lot that CCP can do to help you out. I can see your options as: - Stop playing Eve. Face the fact that due to your geographical location, you just can't play the game without lots of farming. If you don't want to do that, then too bad. - Play eve a lot more. It seems to me that you could turn you problem into a solution: Play eve as a fulltime job and sell the isk you farm to one of the big isk-selling outfits. Obviously illegal but if there are people in China supporting a family doing this then it sounds like you could probably support yourself. - Play smarter. I make several billion a month manufacturing and trading. I spend about 2 hours a day doing this. If I only wanted to make enough money to buy GTC I could probably spend 2 hours a week on trading. A lot of people try trading/manufacturing and give up. Don't be like that; persevere and eventually it will pay you back 10x. - Play for a living: Join a proper Merc corp so you get paid to PvP. Take up pirating as a proper profession. You can make enough to buy GTC just by shooting people. That's about all I can think of for now. Hope you figure something out, but basically because of your location you are stuck with a much harsher deal than most of us. That's life.
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2009.01.05 18:40:00 - [44] Originally by: Concorduck 1) GTC Sellers are still there, the reason the price skyrocketed is the RL Money cost of a 60D GTC. RMT don't mind at prices, so they just put WTB GTC on the forum and someone will eventually give 'em. 2) Your average salary is extremely low. 3) Stop playing then. 4) YOu'll spend over 90% of your playtime in WOW Farming, no matter how much a GTC costs there. 5) your name should be agriculture two. there, i proved you wrong. The only thing proved by that is that you can't read. Come back when you've left elementary school.
Bklyn 1	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:02:00 - [45] OP is correct, he should quit Eve. Other games are more conducive to farming. He should play those. BTW, I work in NYC. Lunch and the subway to and from my job costs about the same as a month of Eve. It's not like Eve is soooooo expensive.
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:06:00 - [46] Originally by: Shadowschild It's clear that agroculture two is too cheap to cough up the monthly fee. $15.00 is a joke. Dude, did you even read his post? The average income in his country is only around $120 (per month, I presume). I don't think being concerned about spending 13% of your income on a game every month makes you "cheap". In comparison, I would end up paying a little more than $1,000 USD per month on a single EVE account. And while we're at it, can we ever finally stop responding with every single post by someone who is concerned about sticking with eve with "GTFO" or "You're not hardcore enough" or "you're too cheap" or something? Yes, there is a time for being a dismissive ***** to people like trolls and rage-quitters. Making it the standard response for everyone, regardless of their tone, just seems belligerent. It's like your friend saying "I can't hang out for awhile with you guys, because I have to go chill with this new girl I'm seeing" and you responding with "fine go ** yourself we never want to see you again!". It makes us seem like bigger babies than the people we accuse of being babies for having issues with eve. Not to mention, it diminishes the power of the responses when they're truly deserved. -- What's your EVE New Year's Resolution for 2009?
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:19:00 - [47] Originally by: Tiirae What a bunch of ***s. The guy said the average salary in his country in 120 euros. not that his* average income is 120 euros. about 90% of your comments are totally invalid if you actually bother to grasp this simple fact. Actually, he did say that his income is little more than $120. Also, he says $15 is 12.5% of his total salary, which means his total salary is $120. OP: I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. -- What's your EVE New Year's Resolution for 2009?
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:20:00 - [48] Originally by: Tiirae Originally by: Tiirae What a bunch of ***s. The guy said the average salary in his country in 120 euros. not that his* average income is 120 euros. about 90% of your comments are totally invalid if you actually bother to grasp this simple fact. "You'll spend more if you don't play" - no he won't. The local costs of living are geared to low income. Eve is 12% of his monthly income which for me would mean paying $800 a month to play. "You're ****ed to spend that much of your income on a game" - He's not. He plays with GTCs. If he couldn't pay with ISK then he can't play. "Get a job" - He's got a fuggin job already. The problem, Mr Two, is that most people do not pay to play with ISK, they pay with real $. So then they only need to farm or trade or build enough to pay for their ships. Some months that might be zero. So no, there isn't too much farming needed to play eve. It just so happens that Eve is the only game that lets you pay with ISK so some people end up farming a lot to play. Now, this scheme was intended so that people with no money and lots of time could trade some of their time with people with the opposite problem: lots of money but no time. This works pretty well, but you live in a little corner where the equation is fubar'd because of the low value of your local currency. So you haven't got lots of time to spend farming, but you haven't got enough RL money either. It's a catch-22. There's really not a lot that CCP can do to help you out. I can see your options as: - Stop playing Eve. Face the fact that due to your geographical location, you just can't play the game without lots of farming. If you don't want to do that, then too bad. - Play eve a lot more. It seems to me that you could turn you problem into a solution: Play eve as a fulltime job and sell the isk you farm to one of the big isk-selling outfits. Obviously illegal but if there are people in China supporting a family doing this then it sounds like you could probably support yourself. - Play smarter. I make several billion a month manufacturing and trading. I spend about 2 hours a day doing this. If I only wanted to make enough money to buy GTC I could probably spend 2 hours a week on trading. A lot of people try trading/manufacturing and give up. Don't be like that; persevere and eventually it will pay you back 10x. - Play for a living: Join a proper Merc corp so you get paid to PvP. Take up pirating as a proper profession. You can make enough to buy GTC just by shooting people. That's about all I can think of for now. Hope you figure something out, but basically because of your location you are stuck with a much harsher deal than most of us. That's life. The only thing proved by that is that you can't read. Come back when you've left elementary school. Here we go ----------------------------------------- Originally by:** Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:31:00 - [49] Edited by: Qordel on 05/01/2009 19:36:25 Originally by: Bklyn 1 OP is correct, he should quit Eve. Other games are more conducive to farming. He should play those. BTW, I work in NYC. Lunch and the subway to and from my job costs about the same as a month of Eve. It's not like Eve is soooooo expensive. How much things cost where you are is not relevant. I'm from the west cost and the price of EVE per month is what I spend on coffee per day. In some countries, the cost of EVE would pay for a month worth of groceries. You're seriously comparing your cost of living and your income in one of the most expensive cities in the world with that of some guy in a place where $120-euro is the average income? What is the point? Imagine you only make about $160 USD per month and you still live in New York and pay New York prices for things. Now THAT would be of some relevance and illustrate the poster's predicament. The problem here is that people seem to have the idea that they should always pay for things at a price adjusted for their local economy. However, CCP doesn't live in your country or have the same economy. CCP's expenses and costs of operation are not adjusted based on the region the player is in. Let's say I sell radios. I live in America. I pay American wages to American employees. I pay American prices for parts. I pay American prices for leasing operations space. I pay American taxes and have general American costs of overhead. My cost of business is in USD. If I pay $15 USD to build each radio, that is how much I spend. The radio is not cheaper for me to produce if the buyer lives in a country where $15 USD is a month's wages. So, yes, it is very unfortunate for people who live in places with drastically different economies who find it very difficult to justify paying for EVE. However, the only other option is for CCP to subsidize your game play and it is not reasonable to expect anyone - especially a business - to subsidize your use of their products simply because your economy is a lot different than the rest that they operate in. All you can really do is decide how badly you want to play EVE and whether it is worth it to you to pay that percentage of your income or to invest that much of your time to pay for it in ISK. The clear answer is to pay with ISK. If people pay for their accounts in ISK and they live in economies where an EVE subscription is one tenth of one percent of their monthly income, then it most certainly seems reasonable for someone to do so when it would account for 12.5% of their income. By the way, I would be curious to know what country it is that someone can afford internet access fast enough to play eve on $160 USD / month! Economic differences aside, the infrastructure for that should be prohibitive! -- What's your EVE New Year's Resolution for 2009?
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:43:00 - [50] Originally by: Qordel Originally by: Tiirae What a bunch of ***s. The guy said the average salary in his country in 120 euros. not that his* average income is 120 euros. about 90% of your comments are totally invalid if you actually bother to grasp this simple fact. Actually, he did say that his income is little more than $120. Also, he says $15 is 12.5% of his total salary, which means his total salary is $120. OP: I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. i calculated 12.5% from the average salary... for me is 10.7% but still to much to pay.

agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:46:00 - [51] thx to the ppl with constructive replies, maybe some of the suggestions could work for me
Michelle Vega	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:51:00 - [52] Do what some of us do. Open the market and type 30 into the quick search and buy your self a 30 day pilots license (plex) and voila. The price varries from 290m - 340m :)
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:54:00 - [53] Originally by: agroculture two 2. I have work, I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. So make some math(open calc, type your salary-12.5%=eve subscription monthly) and u will how I feel about paying the game with real money. Not to be an ass but I really think you need to be doing something with your time other than playing video games. Get a hair cut and get a real job, your monthly income of 120 Euro is equivalent to $163 USD, a kid working part-time at McDonald's makes more than that a week. If you're a kid then stop *****ing, you probably don't have many other expenses. If you're a college/university student then spend that time studying so you can make more when you graduate. If you're an adult...WTF man get off your arse and get a real job, spend that time on education/training instead of goofing around playing video games. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Cygnus Scott Originally by: agroculture two 2. I have work, I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. So make some math(open calc, type your salary-12.5%=eve subscription monthly) and u will how I feel about paying the game with real money. Not to be an ass but I really think you need to be doing something with your time other than playing video games. Get a hair cut and get a real job, your monthly income of 120 Euro is equivalent to $163 USD, a kid working part-time at McDonald's makes more than that a week. If you're a kid then stop *****ing, you probably don't have many other expenses. If you're a college/university student then spend that time studying so you can make more when you graduate. If you're an adult...WTF man get off your arse and get a real job, spend that time on education/training instead of goofing around playing video games. i have high education and i work in internet cafe (my friend owns the cafe or i would not work atall)... u dont know how is to live in country in "transition" but i undestand why u cant undestand :D
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:06:00 - [55] Originally by: Cygnus Scott Originally by: agroculture two 2. I have work, I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. So make some math(open calc, type your salary-12.5%=eve subscription monthly) and u will how I feel about paying the game with real money. Not to be an ass but I really think you need to be doing something with your time other than playing video games. Get a hair cut and get a real job, your monthly income of 120 Euro is equivalent to $163 USD, a kid working part-time at McDonald's makes more than that a week. If you're a kid then stop *****ing, you probably don't have many other expenses. If you're a college/university student then spend that time studying so you can make more when you graduate. If you're an adult...WTF man get off your arse and get a real job, spend that time on education/training instead of goofing around playing video games. The guy said he makes MORE than the average income of $163 USD in his country. That means he is obviously NOT some early 20s american kid in his basemant hitting the bong in his misfits tee-shirt. I find it a little offensive that people are treating this guy like he's some do-nothing bum. As he said, that salary provides a very comfortable living in his country. That would explain why it's the average salary in his country. There are people in India (who often end up with our jobs, imagine that!) who make 15% of what their American counterparts do. That doesn't mean they're lazy bums who "need to get a job". Very often they have university educations and even PHDs. That they make 15% of the income the American counterpart makes has nothing to do with their education or work ethic and everything to do with the adjusted cost of living. The issue HERE is that while local products and expenses are obviously adjusted for one's cost of living, EVE is not. Not that EVE should be, of course. -- What's your EVE New Year's Resolution for 2009?
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:10:00 - [56] Originally by: Tiirae What a bunch of ***s. The guy said the average salary in his country in 120 euros. not that his* average income is 120 euros. about 90% of your comments are totally invalid if you actually bother to grasp this simple fact. Wrong, re-read his statement. I've bolded the pertinent parts for ease of understanding. Originally by: agroculture two 2. I have work, I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. So make some math(open calc, type your salary-12.5%=eve subscription monthly) and u will how I feel about paying the game with real money. He clearly mentions that 15 Euros is 12.5% of HIS total salary, even though he mentions he makes slightly more than the average. If dude lives in some part of Eastern Europe then that is one thing, but TBH that means that geographically the man cannot afford to play the game. His income cannot support it, its that simple. I can't afford a $1500 a month car payment on top of my other bills so I don't drive a Porsche 911 GT3 RS. Its reality, we all have our financial limitations. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:15:00 - [57] Originally by: agroculture two [ i have high education and i work in internet cafe (my friend owns the cafe or i would not work atall)... u dont know how is to live in country in "transition" but i undestand why u cant undestand :D My mistake, I saw you mention England and thought you lived there where you should be capable of making much more. If you're in one of the Eastern European counties just coming into the EU then your situation/dilemma is understandable and I apologize for my assumption that you're just one of the whiners who really have no legit excuse but their own laziness. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:23:00 - [58] Originally by: Cygnus Scott Originally by: Tiirae What a bunch of ***s. The guy said the average salary in his country in 120 euros. not that his* average income is 120 euros. about 90% of your comments are totally invalid if you actually bother to grasp this simple fact. Wrong, re-read his statement. I've bolded the pertinent parts for ease of understanding. Originally by: agroculture two 2. I have work, I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. So make some math(open calc, type your salary-12.5%=eve subscription monthly) and u will how I feel about paying the game with real money. He clearly mentions that 15 Euros is 12.5% of HIS total salary, even though he mentions he makes slightly more than the average. If dude lives in some part of Eastern Europe then that is one thing, but TBH that means that geographically the man cannot afford to play the game. His income cannot support it, its that simple. I can't afford a $1500 a month car payment on top of my other bills so I don't drive a Porsche 911 GT3 RS. Its reality, we all have our financial limitations. sry it was mistake i mentioned above: i calculated 12.5% from the average salary... for me is 10.7% but still to much to pay.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:37:00 - [59] Originally by: agroculture two Originally by: Cygnus Scott Originally by: Tiirae What a bunch of ***s. The guy said the average salary in his country in 120 euros. not that his* average income is 120 euros. about 90% of your comments are totally invalid if you actually bother to grasp this simple fact. Wrong, re-read his statement. I've bolded the pertinent parts for ease of understanding. Originally by: agroculture two 2. I have work, I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. So make some math(open calc, type your salary-12.5%=eve subscription monthly) and u will how I feel about paying the game with real money. He clearly mentions that 15 Euros is 12.5% of HIS total salary, even though he mentions he makes slightly more than the average. If dude lives in some part of Eastern Europe then that is one thing, but TBH that means that geographically the man cannot afford to play the game. His income cannot support it, its that simple. I can't afford a $1500 a month car payment on top of my other bills so I don't drive a Porsche 911 GT3 RS. Its reality, we all have our financial limitations. sry it was mistake i mentioned above: i calculated 12.5% from the average salary... for me is 10.7% but still to much to pay. 140 is not that far from 120. ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:38:00 - [60] Originally by: Michelle Vega Do what some of us do. Open the market and type 30 into the quick search and buy your self a 30 day pilots license (plex) and voila. The price varries from 290m - 340m :) i remember the times i buy 90day for 350mil before, now i can play 1month with that much ISK.

Sedious Bloke	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:39:00 - [61] I'm under a week old and have been working on nothing but learning skills the entire time and i can still bring in 10mill in a few hours Eve is harsher than wow in every way, if you miss wow so much mebe you should go back and hug a gnome or two? to sum it up lrn2play or give me your stuff?
Ecky X Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:49:00 - [62] Originally by: agroculture two i remember the times i buy 90day for 350mil before, now i can play 1month with that much ISK. I know your pain, I quit paying for GTCs with isk. However, it's also somewhat easier to make isk now than it was then, too.
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:51:00 - [63] Originally by: Sedious Bloke I'm under a week old and have been working on nothing but learning skills the entire time and i can still bring in 10mill in a few hours Eve is harsher than wow in every way, if you miss wow so much mebe you should go back and hug a gnome or two? to sum it up lrn2play or give me your stuff? ok English is not my first language and i have difficulties to explain... i compared that i need to spend 65% of my playtime in EVE in farming and only 20% in WOW (to play for GTC and PVP) i love that "eve is harsher in every way",but i hate that i must spend 65%of my time in eve farming... its crapy boring.
Killer Kelly Allied Tactical Unit Brutally Organized Ruthless Gangsters	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:57:00 - [64] Most of the older players in my corp rave about playing the market to make money. I can't figure it out. Of course, I don't want it to be mindless. I would enjoy having those good deals. I would love to be able to remember the time I got a killer deal on 25 Apocs and then resold them at a high price and made out like a bandit. I haven't got the hang of it yet but I don't want it to be easy. I enjoy the challenge. (I made 10 million carting around t2 ammo from major markets the other day. Baby steps.) Your problem is that you're stuck in the WoW/GW/etc. mindset of MoneyEarned=Timespent*gold/hour. Intelligence can be substituted for dedication in this game. Of course, both together makes the great players. I have a friend in GoonSwarm who made three billion over a week with trade. His subscription is paid this month.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:58:00 - [65] Originally by: agroculture two ok English is not my first language and i have difficulties to explain... i compared that i need to spend 65% of my playtime in EVE in farming and only 20% in WOW (to play for GTC and PVP) i love that "eve is harsher in every way",but i hate that i must spend 65%of my time in eve farming... its crapy boring. WE GET IT. If you can't afford it then don't play. If you don't have the time then don't play. I don't feel that you need to farm much, I pvp all the time in fully rigged and T2 fit hacs/recons/BS/capital ships. You choose to pay via GTC. You choose to grind to get that money. You don't have the time, so stop playing and stop the whining ffs. We aren't going to RUIN the game by having missions give out 10 times more isk or set a max price on GTC so people go back to using illegal methods just so you can pay to play EVE better. Stop being so selfish, gd. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 21:09:00 - [66] Originally by: Vaal Erit Originally by: agroculture two ok English is not my first language and i have difficulties to explain... i compared that i need to spend 65% of my playtime in EVE in farming and only 20% in WOW (to play for GTC and PVP) i love that "eve is harsher in every way",but i hate that i must spend 65%of my time in eve farming... its crapy boring. WE GET IT. If you can't afford it then don't play. If you don't have the time then don't play. I don't feel that you need to farm much, I pvp all the time in fully rigged and T2 fit hacs/recons/BS/capital ships. You choose to pay via GTC. You choose to grind to get that money. You don't have the time, so stop playing and stop the whining ffs. We aren't going to RUIN the game by having missions give out 10 times more isk or set a max price on GTC so people go back to using illegal methods just so you can pay to play EVE better. Stop being so selfish, gd. i dont ask anyting from CCP or from you, i dont want this game to change... i just wanted opinions and explanations, to see am i wrong, where i m wrong, is there some other way to fix my problem. you r selfish if u think i should not allow myself to ask this questions. sofar there are many constructive replies with some good suggestions so pls dont reply if u dont want to help
Ecky X Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.01.05 21:16:00 - [67] You might want to hit up the market or industry sections of the forum. Trade requires practically zero SP to make good isk, but isn't as easy as industry - which can also be very profitable, but requires a few weeks' training time.
Captain Pompous	Posted - 2009.01.05 22:03:00 - [68] I think you should prove me right Think about it!
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.01.05 22:06:00 - [69] Originally by: Asestorian CCP don't even particularly like people paying for the game with GTCs instead of credit cards or other normal ways. CCP make 3 million dollars a year from gtcs. They would lose maybe 80% of this if they got rid of them they LOVE gtcs SKUNK Originally by: CCP Navigator People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.01.05 22:11:00 - [70] Originally by: agroculture two i dont ask anyting from CCP or from you, i dont want this game to change... i just wanted opinions and explanations, to see am i wrong, where i m wrong, is there some other way to fix my problem. you r selfish if u think i should not allow myself to ask this questions. sofar there are many constructive replies with some good suggestions so pls dont reply if u dont want to help No, your first post was fine. However, after that you started to whine and whine and whine about the prices of GTC. Wah, I used to get a 90 day for 350m, wah GTC prices are so high. These are your whining posts. You are whining. You are not asking questions anymore. No one can help you, I don't have a magic "radically change how the universe works so that one person can play EVE online cheap" button and I am fairly certain no one else has such a button. We gave you all the options you can have and yet you still whine. STOP WHINING. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html

Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.01.05 22:15:00 - [71] Originally by: agroculture two Edited by: agroculture two on 05/01/2009 20:57:47 Edited by: agroculture two on 05/01/2009 20:24:35 Edited by: agroculture two on 05/01/2009 16:45:55 edit: this post is not about me or for the high GTC prices, the real question is "Does this game involves too much PVE farming? Do u feel bored farming to cover the expenses like i do?" The reason I m posting this ôwall of textö is because I m hoping that someone will read it and maybe prove me wrong , I m really looking for a reason to convince myself not to quit EVE. I played most of the popular MMOs(at least on trials) and EvE online is definitely the best game. Its more mature and hardcore, also extremely complex and PVP oriented comparing to other MMOs. But I cant play it anymore because of simple reason, I cant pay for the game and GTC with ISK prices are simply stupid. Now I will make some explanations first: 1. I donÆt know the real reason why the GTCs r so expensive now but my theory is that the world economy crisis lowered the amount of GTC sellers (simply they cant afford it anymore) also the demand increased resulting in increase of the GTC prices. However I think that realmoney isk sellers donÆt mind if the price is this high because they use exploits and macro miners to make isk, also I believe they donÆt pay with real money to play so they will buy GTC even the price is over a billionà this way the good players that play with ISK are eliminated(I consider myself as good player to this game society). 2. I have work, I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. So make some math(open calc, type your salary-12.5%=eve subscription monthly) and u will how I feel about paying the game with real money. 3. So I need 11mil/day for GTC +30mil/day for PvP(I m PvP player, on every MMO I play strictly PvP), I can make 20mil/hour doing lvl4s in Golem t2 fitted so I need to farm 2hours/day to cover expensesà but my average time online is 3hours/day(checked with Visual TimeAnalyzer) thatÆs 65% of my online time in farming! I hate farming! And there r days that I donÆt farm atall I just log, chat, check stuff and logoutà I cant play hardcore like few years ago, I have too much RL obligations. ThatÆs ok life is hard :D , now the real reason why I m thinking to quit EVE: I played WOW,AOC,LOtR and tons of more MMOs but when I discovered EVE I said, there is the game I will play until It exists. However most of my RL friends still play WoW and yesterday we had a conversation and I made some statistics:60day GTC In WOW now cost ~4k gold(buying GTCs with gold in WOW its not legal but no one I know got banned, I played 3years like that) I need to make 66gold/day for GTC, every player can do daily quests(same as doing missions) at lvl80 and make minimum 250g/hour I wonÆt be under 300g/hour. ThatÆs 7.3% of my total playtime spent for farming, lets add some for repairs and expenses lets say 20%. Yes I know WoW Is kiddish and crapy compared to EVE but 65% of the time spend in doing lvl4sà no not WOW, minesweeper sounds more fun. Lately I just log and when I realize how much ISK I need to farm I just pres ctrl+q, I m really disappointed. CCP should find some strategy to fix this because I believe that many good players will leave the game. edit:i calculated 12.5% from the average salary, for me is 10.7% but still to much to pay. edit:i come from country where the average salary is 120euros(that is not my average, its for the whole country) Demand > Offer. End of story. Complained about oil price last summer ? Did it change something ? No. Now Demand got nerfed, did it changed something ? Yes. Fetchez la vache !
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 22:21:00 - [72] Originally by: Vaal Erit Originally by: agroculture two i dont ask anyting from CCP or from you, i dont want this game to change... i just wanted opinions and explanations, to see am i wrong, where i m wrong, is there some other way to fix my problem. you r selfish if u think i should not allow myself to ask this questions. sofar there are many constructive replies with some good suggestions so pls dont reply if u dont want to help No, your first post was fine. However, after that you started to whine and whine and whine about the prices of GTC. Wah, I used to get a 90 day for 350m, wah GTC prices are so high. These are your whining posts. You are whining. You are not asking questions anymore. No one can help you, I don't have a magic "radically change how the universe works so that one person can play EVE online cheap" button and I am fairly certain no one else has such a button. We gave you all the options you can have and yet you still whine. STOP WHINING. hmmm... r u selling GTCs? because i think u r whining not me
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.01.05 22:23:00 - [73] Where do you live ? Fetchez la vache !
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.05 22:27:00 - [74] Originally by: agroculture two ok English is not my first language and i have difficulties to explain... i compared that i need to spend 65% of my playtime in EVE in farming and only 20% in WOW (to play for GTC and PVP) i love that "eve is harsher in every way",but i hate that i must spend 65%of my time in eve farming... its crapy boring. Umm...i didn't know you could buy gametime in WoW with gold. Actually only way to do it would be to...you know...sell gold In aaaany case. GTC is 300mil max. 1 hour/day for every working day, 20 days, is 15mil/hour. Ok, bit rough to do 15mil/hour(for some), so let's give you every day. 30 days/month, 1 hour a day, you need 10mil/hour to do so. That's one, maybe two level 4 missions+loot. You say you can play 3hours/day, that's 33% to gather the ISK for your gametime. I'd say that's pretty darn cheap. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Asestorian Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.05 22:30:00 - [75] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Asestorian CCP don't even particularly like people paying for the game with GTCs instead of credit cards or other normal ways. CCP make 3 million dollars a year from gtcs. They would lose maybe 80% of this if they got rid of them they LOVE gtcs SKUNK What I meant more was that they prefer people to pay with credit cards. They even said so themselves somewhere. shrug --- Originally by: CCP Atropos Destiny Balls
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.01.05 22:35:00 - [76] I don't understand the complaint. Is it that you can't afford something you want? Or that CCP should change the game to cater to people that can't afford to pay the subscription fee? Sorry if your in a country/situation where your struggling. Doesn't sound like the problem is with EVE though. Also I liked how many used this thread as a springboard to brag about their monthly salary, hubris over the internet is always good fun. To answer your question, no I don't think there is too much "grinding required". You can fly as cheap ships as you'd like. It's up to you how much you spend or risk. Personally I'm lucky enough to be able to afford the subscription costs. As such I don't "need" to make a certain about of ISK/day to keep playing the game. Also I've come across a good mix to maximize PVP playtime. I use trading for passive income while I actively do what I enjoy in the game. To do this effectively I actually use an alt account so this may not be a viable option for you unfortunately. Doesn't sound like there is an easy solution for what you want. Options are there but they either require money or time and it sounds like you don't have enough of the first and don't like spending the other (at least in the quantity required doing PVE stuff). In an attempt to be useful check out Combat Arms. It's a free to play internet FPS game with instant action. I often play while waiting for gangs to form up and wait to hear the word on TS so I can quit and resume EVE. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.01.05 22:38:00 - [77] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 05/01/2009 22:28:32 Originally by: agroculture two ok English is not my first language and i have difficulties to explain... i compared that i need to spend 65% of my playtime in EVE in farming and only 20% in WOW (to play for GTC and PVP) i love that "eve is harsher in every way",but i hate that i must spend 65%of my time in eve farming... its crapy boring. Umm...i didn't know you could buy gametime in WoW with gold. Actually only way to do it would be to...you know...sell gold In aaaany case. GTC is 300mil max. 1 hour/day for every working day, 20 days, is 15mil/hour. Ok, bit rough to do 15mil/hour(for some), so let's give you every day. 30 days/month, 1 hour a day, you need 10mil/hour to do so. That's one, maybe two level 4 missions+loot. You say you can play 3hours/day, that's 33% to gather the ISK for your gametime. I'd say that's pretty darn cheap. Basically, you need to "farm" isk 30 hours/month with a 10mil/hour income. He was counting +33% because of the ships he used to lost in pvp. Fetchez la vache !
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2009.01.05 23:29:00 - [78] 1 billion per GTC get!
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 23:34:00 - [79] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Where do you live ? in the anus of the world :P
Gut Punch Shade. Penumbra Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.05 23:41:00 - [80] This isn't Battlefield, Call of Duty, or Unreal Tournament... Quote: "Does this game involves too much PVE farming? Do u feel bored farming to cover the expenses like i do?" The answer is no. 1) You need to feel pain for purchasing new things and/or dying and having to repurchase after one goes BOOM. You shouldn't be able to respawn and recycle back into a fight with a T2 ship. Thats what makes the game "mature and hardcore" as you put it. 2) As someone with a little bit of training time invested in my character, I want people to have to suffer and toil just like I did when I tried to move up in the game. Older players would feel a bit screwed, to put it lightly, if newer people could shortcut thought purchasing the next level of books and ships and gear.

Kazang Gallente Arbitrary Freedom	Posted - 2009.01.06 00:13:00 - [81] Yes eve contains alot of pve grind for the weaker and less skilled players, if you dont lose alot of ships in pvp its quite cheap to maintain your fleet. Everything in eve revolves around pvp, the market trading, mining and transport are all forms of pvp, controlled by or in control of the ebb and flow of battle. The competition to earn isk is just as tough as winning a fight. Its extremely easy for the skilled trader to make vast amounts of isk without even playing the game except to set buy and sell orders, if a player has that ability. For the most part i do agree with you. It takes alot of work and time to get enough money to pvp for most players (most players are terrible at pvp and lose alot) let alone grind the isk to pay for a GTC. Cheaper and ships and less grind would be double bonus for me, i would have more to spend on ships and (hopefully) more targets to shoot at because people would be more inclined to take make risks and venture into the shady world of pvp. But i dont think the effort to reward ratio is that far out in terms of the prices of modules and ships. 4 or so hours earning L4 grinding will pay for a fitted tier 1 battleship, domi for instance. The price of items is all related to mining and the manufacturing of components, if ccp increased the ore/hour yield of miners the prices of modules would drop, GTC prices would also drop as a result. Its a complex thing and its very difficult to keep the economy balanced so its not quite as straight forward as upping mining yield, but thats the general idea The prices of ships and components in eve is as low as its ever been. Losing a t2 fit battleship 2 or 3 years ago was a huge deal, now its merely a small set back. So if anything its getting easier to earn money every day, for instance level4s are getting more profitable and easier as time goes on. T2 is getting ever cheaper as more players get into invention. So hopefully we are on the right track. How this continues to progress and what T3 is going to do to the economy will be interesting to see. Less grind would make everything so much more fun Kazang
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2009.01.06 04:16:00 - [82] Originally by: Sedious Bloke I'm under a week old and have been working on nothing but learning skills the entire time and i can still bring in 10mill in a few hours Eve is harsher than wow in every way, if you miss wow so much mebe you should go back and hug a gnome or two? to sum it up lrn2play or give me your stuff? Shut up. At a week old you shouldn't even be allowed to post. You can't have experienced even 1% of what this game has to offer. And here you are telling someone who's been playing for years to 'lrn2play' ? Get out.
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2009.01.06 04:24:00 - [83] Originally by: Vaal Erit Originally by: agroculture two ok English is not my first language and i have difficulties to explain... i compared that i need to spend 65% of my playtime in EVE in farming and only 20% in WOW (to play for GTC and PVP) i love that "eve is harsher in every way",but i hate that i must spend 65%of my time in eve farming... its crapy boring. WE GET IT. If you can't afford it then don't play. If you don't have the time then don't play. I don't feel that you need to farm much, I pvp all the time in fully rigged and T2 fit hacs/recons/BS/capital ships. You choose to pay via GTC. You choose to grind to get that money. You don't have the time, so stop playing and stop the whining ffs. We aren't going to RUIN the game by having missions give out 10 times more isk or set a max price on GTC so people go back to using illegal methods just so you can pay to play EVE better. Stop being so selfish, gd. Stop being so selfish? The guy lives in a 3rd world country and has to live for a month on what most people here earn in a day. You're calling him selfish? What an ass you are. Having lived and worked in some 3rd world countries myself, I can promise you that the idea of 'selfishness' doesn't even exist. Nor laziness. In order to be selfish you must first have something to be selfish with. Can you even comprehend what life is like for this guy? I wish some of the people in this thread could swap places with agro culture for a few months. Then we'd hear some real whining. The arrogance and childishness on display here is breathtaking.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.01.06 04:42:00 - [84] I buy my game time with ISK. I spend most of my time running missions, mining, and experimenting with different ships and fittings. I don't care why GTC are so expensive. It's the challenge to meet that goal every month that actually keeps me playing. I've ragequit twice already (just ask the CCP folks), but I came back after realising that I enjoy the game that I'm playing. So now I'm setting myself goals - raise DPS to get mission times down. Improve tanking to reduce the risk of ship loss when accidentally killing triggers. I expect to have money left over this month so I can actually engage in some light PvP. Yes, GTC are hideously expensive. For me it's a challenge to overcome - the $15/month subscription fee is just two day's lunch money for me, it's not the money that I care about, it's meeting the challenge of having my characters buy their own game time. One other way of making money is to become a recycler who buys trash T1 modules from mission runners in hubs, refines them and sells the minerals on the market. Alternately you could train in manufacturing, invest in a highly-researched ammunition BPC and go into the business of manufacturing ammunition for mission runners. The two businesses have a synergy - you buy modules, reprocess them, sell them back to mission-runners as ammunition! Plenty of ways to make ISK, some even help you make ISK when you're not logged on!
Roy34543	Posted - 2009.01.06 05:13:00 - [85] This thread has been somewhat screwed... Honestly my suggestion is to do investment, In whatever you want if your in the game for the long term, get BPO's and make copies and you can pay for the game indefinatly after a period of time for no work. Problem is it takes a lot of upfront cash.
yourdoingitwrong	Posted - 2009.01.06 05:26:00 - [86] TO THE OP: YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN SPAT
Yalezorn Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.06 05:30:00 - [87] If you can't afford $15 a month, I suggest you stop wasting 3 hours a day on video games and do something with your life.
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2009.01.06 05:43:00 - [88] Edited by: Tulisin Dragonflame on 06/01/2009 05:44:22 Take those two hours a day and open a lemonade stand. At a quarter a cup you'll only need to sell 60 cups a month to pay for your account, 2 cups a day, or a cup of lemonade an hour. Of course, you'll have to cover the cost of your sign "Lemonaide, no grilz aloud!!1", but you can probably get the lemons and sugarwater free from mom. Or, like, go outside and look on the ground for that much change, seriously. 25 cents an hour.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.01.06 05:53:00 - [89] Edited by: Akita T on 06/01/2009 05:57:01 Originally by: agroculture two So I need 11mil/day for GTC +30mil/day for PvP(I m PvP player, on every MMO I play strictly PvP), I can make 20mil/hour doing lvl4s in Golem t2 fitted so I need to farm 2hours/day to cover expenses… but my average time online is 3hours/day(checked with Visual TimeAnalyzer) that’s 65% of my online time in farming! I hate farming! You farm half an hour for "free game" purposes and you farm one and a half hours (three times as much) for PvP consumption purposes. If the need for farming ISK (i.e. "wasting time") would be severely reduced, so would your "thrill factor" also reduce (from investments into PvP ships you lose), which would lead to you either simply losing more ships (or more expensive ships) and still farming one and a half hours a day to pay for them. I think you just inadvertedly answered your own question : no, there's not too much mandatory farming, you just do suck at PvP "ISK effectiveness". Try to fly cheaper ships or lose them less often in the future. Probably the "fly cheaper ships" option would be a good start - downsize your ship class one level. _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2009.01.06 05:59:00 - [90] Originally by: Yalezorn If you can't afford $15 a month, I suggest you stop wasting 3 hours a day on video games and do something with your life. /facepalm I have to laugh. You can't beat forums. You're lucky if people read half the OP, let alone the 4 pages of discussion following it. Even if I explain it all too this guy as well, another idiot will come along, read 2 lines and then post something similar, and similarly worthless. /emote waves white flag

Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.01.06 06:02:00 - [91] Originally by: Tiirae You can't beat forums. You're lucky if people read half the OP, let alone the 4 pages of discussion following it. Even if I explain it all too this guy as well, another idiot will come along, read 2 lines and then post something similar, and similarly worthless. Sure you can : you circle-strafe-flame the morons by pointing out their inability to read and such then keep on discussing the issue with people that are not complete morons. _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Fayn Trak Gallente Myridian Trading Systems	Posted - 2009.01.06 06:04:00 - [92] Edited by: Fayn Trak on 06/01/2009 06:06:30 I would say you should tone back the PvP and invest the extra isk you make somehow and pick up the PvP again when that ammount of isk you have incoming looks like it's enough to reduce your grind. I realise "somehow" is going to be the trick but you'll have ot work out whats best for you. A herd of cattle A flock of geese A lot of isk
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.01.06 06:14:00 - [93] Originally by: agroculture two Edited by: agroculture two on 05/01/2009 20:57:47 Edited by: agroculture two on 05/01/2009 20:24:35 Edited by: agroculture two on 05/01/2009 16:45:55 edit: this post is not about me or for the high GTC prices, the real question is "Does this game involves too much PVE farming? Do u feel bored farming to cover the expenses like i do?" The reason I m posting this ôwall of textö is because I m hoping that someone will read it and maybe prove me wrong , I m really looking for a reason to convince myself not to quit EVE. I played most of the popular MMOs(at least on trials) and EvE online is definitely the best game. Its more mature and hardcore, also extremely complex and PVP oriented comparing to other MMOs. But I cant play it anymore because of simple reason, I cant pay for the game and GTC with ISK prices are simply stupid. Your explanation after this is pointless, you already gave all necessary info at this point. As you play other games (mostly on trial), you know you can't buy GTC's for ingame currency in any of them. Thus, CCP has already proved very generous and helpful (or, they used a system others didn't dare try, it's often discussed as a method to play against RMT). There's MMO's out there that comes for free, some got adverts that pop up to pay for the service, neither of them really advanced. But they're free. If you can't afford to play EVE, you can't afford WoW, Everquest, Warhammer, etc, either. And just think for two seconds, the GTC you buy from isk, isn't coming out of the blue like magic. Someone else bought that for RL isk, and provides it to you, for ingame money. It's a service. Noone forces anyone to use it. And you wouldn't get this service in other games. Now, where's the problem again?
3card Monty	Posted - 2009.01.06 07:09:00 - [94] To OP: I have a couple close friends that also are in your boat, they too live in developing countries and we just finished securing their play time of 6 to 12 month blocks. What we did was have each of them spend 30 days @ 3 hours a day average earning Isk. We converted that to GTC's. A few of them payed for 6 months with that 30 days, and some payed for a whole year with that 30 days spent earning game time. The new in game pilot license system allows people to bank play time in large blocks. So work a month = play for a year.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.06 07:35:00 - [95] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn He was counting +33% because of the ships he used to lost in pvp. Ah, too true. Still, that's a different problem i reckon? Don't lose ships? My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.06 07:50:00 - [96] Originally by: Misanth As you play other games (mostly on trial), you know you can't buy GTC's for ingame currency in any of them. i wont pay for mmo with real money(in eve i payed first 2months and after that i play with ISK) i didn't had problems "safely"(i got scamed once in 3years)to buy WOW GTCs with gold... that's why i compared WOW with EVE. the dilemma was should i stay to play EVE when i need to farm 3times more to play PVP comparing to WOW. again i will mention the quality of the games is not comparable, EVE wins in every way.
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.06 07:54:00 - [97] Originally by: 3card Monty To OP: I have a couple close friends that also are in your boat, they too live in developing countries and we just finished securing their play time of 6 to 12 month blocks. What we did was have each of them spend 30 days @ 3 hours a day average earning Isk. We converted that to GTC's. A few of them payed for 6 months with that 30 days, and some payed for a whole year with that 30 days spent earning game time. The new in game pilot license system allows people to bank play time in large blocks. So work a month = play for a year. i need to farm one month every day 130mil/day... ufff :)
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.01.06 08:05:00 - [98] Edited by: Akita T on 06/01/2009 08:06:33 Originally by: agroculture two the dilemma was should i stay to play EVE when i need to farm 3times more to play PVP comparing to WOW. again i will mention the quality of the games is not comparable, EVE wins in every way. Re-read what I wrote in my previous post on the 3rd page. It's intentional. This way by design. You're supposed to feel a noticeable discomfort when you suffer a big PVP loss in EVE. It's what makes EVE so special, the fact that when it hurts ingame, it REALLY hurts you, to some degree even in RL. What you need to do is farm less and MANAGE YOUR PVP ISK CONSUMPTION. Fly smaller ships, fit cheaper, take less risks, fly in larger groups, whatever. An average of 30 mil ISK lost to PVP on a daily basis is quite horrible. _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.06 08:08:00 - [99] Originally by: agroculture two i need to farm one month every day 130mil/day... ufff :) No, you need to farm 1 hour, every day, 10mil/hour(max). That's the cost. Fact. The fact you bought WoW gametime with gold, which isn't ok by their rules, kinda makes me curious on what "shady" things you'll be doing here. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.06 08:08:00 - [100] Originally by: Akita T If the need for farming ISK (i.e. "wasting time") would be severely reduced, so would your "thrill factor" also reduce (from investments into PvP ships you lose), which would lead to you either simply losing more ships (or more expensive ships) and still farming one and a half hours a day to pay for them. hmmm... there is no comparison with the "thrill factor" with other games... when i PVP in EVE my heart beats and adrenaline pumps... maybe u r right maybe farming in eve rewards much greater pleasure than other games. thx for reminding me

Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.01.06 08:12:00 - [101] Originally by: agroculture two hmmm... there is no comparison with the "thrill factor" with other games... when i PVP in EVE my heart beats and adrenaline pumps... maybe u r right maybe farming in eve rewards much greater pleasure than other games. thx for reminding me Glad you finally saw the light _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.06 08:23:00 - [102] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: agroculture two i need to farm one month every day 130mil/day... ufff :) The fact you bought WoW gametime with gold, which isn't ok by their rules, kinda makes me curious on what "shady" things you'll be doing here. one of the good reasons i play EVE is that i can legally play with game currency and i wont be scammed. if u know high percentage of players that play from countries with low standard play WOW with gold u wont consider it "shady" atall and i if u ask me is much better ppl to buy gold from players instead of realmoney gold sellers(actually legal GTC selling in EVE is exactly that) i never scammed,lied,insult,used exploit or did something illegal in this game... i never whined for a ship loss. i consider myself as a honorable and good player to this game community.
Stealing Honest	Posted - 2009.01.06 08:55:00 - [103] Edited by: Stealing Honest on 06/01/2009 08:56:51 There is little more anyone can say to help you really. You know exactly what you must do to play Eve for free legally, and to play WoW for free illegally. You know that to play this game in a free legal manner it takes a bit more work, but the payoff i think is much better. If you want people to say the WoW gold farm for free method is better...well no ..no it's not. I understand Eve is extremely expensive for people who country currency conversion to Euros or USD is very low. You have the legal tools to play for free, use them.
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.06 09:36:00 - [104] however everyone will agree that PVE in this game is boring... even manufacturing and trading i consider not to be much fun. CCP should make mission running more interesting, i m sick of saving the damsel in distress every day :) maybe add new types of mission, some brainstorm ideas: mission where u defend a station. small groups with 2-3stealth bombers and 2-3other ships spawn, the bombers attack the station the other ships attack u. so u try to kill the bombers and destroy the other ship before another group spawns. or u defend the station until your reinforcements arrive(i hate that usually its only you against the universe to save the damsel :) ) and a mothership comes at the end when u think u cant tank anymore and shield/armor rep u. or escort missions, you defend transporters as they try to travel through couple gates... or involve hacking,archaeology in some missions, make them activate some gates with extra spawns...ect ect no need those mission to be more rewarding or harder... just to brake monotony and make farming more interesting. i know that this suppose to be in suggestion forum but i dont feel like ragequit anymore so i like to change the subject little bit :P
Tollen Sendek Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.06 10:58:00 - [105] Well agroculture, I think you alraedy gave some answers to your questions in the OP. Farming is never fun, be it EVE, WAR or WoW (or whatever)... However, to lighten the boredom of farming, try some music for a change :) I remember my old WoW Farming sessions, they were tedious and boring to hell, but some good music can help lighten this a lot :) And if you go farming everyday, then change your kind of farming every day, or every x amount of days... Let's say you go mining for 3 days (where you refine and sell), then you could maybe switch to ratting for 3 days, mission running for 3 days, etc... (I think you get the point) :) As you're living in a developing country, I can imagine that the 15 euros a month is a big hit to your income, but that's what the Pilot's Licenses are for I guess :) With a little effort, you'll be able to find a method of grinding/farming/whatevering where you'll notice that you have more time playing in your 3 hours than you're actually farming stuff... You just need to find a way that suits you, and where you can get loads of Isk in as little time as possible, you just need an efficient playstyle for that, all it takes :) I mean, I just started out playing Eve, have a char that's not even a week old, and I can easily drag in more than 1mil/hour, I'm not even sporting any shiny T2/T3 stuff, and I don't PvP at all (not yet anyway) :) Like somebody above me said, set yourself some goals. Let's say it costs 350m ISK for a license of 30 days, and you set your goal to be 400-450m ISK for this month. If you can pull this off (which I gather you can from reading your OP), you'll not only be able to play another month, but you'll have some extra pocketmoney to spare too, and I can guarantee you'll find an efficient grind/farm/playstyle in no time :) Cry Havoc, and let slip the dogs of War!
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.06 11:09:00 - [106] I pay for my subs. To do anything less seems wrong to me. I do feel for you on the first few sentences. EvE becomes more and more maintenance and less and less fun every patch it seems. It's a push to get paid subs. An effort to make it more difficult to game your account fee out each month and I am one of many who get the brunt end of it. So I agree, CCP need to reconsider the strategy.
Captain Pompous	Posted - 2009.01.06 11:22:00 - [107] Wait a moment...agroculture two and Stealing Honest look like the same person! ....why not dual-box with your alt, OP?
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.01.06 11:37:00 - [108] Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 06/01/2009 11:38:48 Quote: the dilemma was should i stay to play EVE when i need to farm 3times more to play PVP comparing to WOW. again i will mention the quality of the games is not comparable, EVE wins in every way. I pay for my two accounts with a credit card, but if I could be assed with the effort again I could earn 2.4 billion a month (enough for 8 accounts per month if you want to rate it like that) doing manufacturing, and this needs no special items, no T2 Blueprints, no low/0.0 access, and needs only about an hour a week (more if you don't have much ISK). Unfortunately people look to earning ISK in a "hit bricks with bricks" approach and see the only way to be "making good isk" is to be ratting every waking hour of their life because they see the ISK going into their wallets. If I got time to rat during this, it was a bonus. It's not hard to make ISK at all, people just don't think about the full potential of their characters. --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.06 11:42:00 - [109] Originally by: Captain Pompous Wait a moment...agroculture two and Stealing Honest look like the same person! ....why not dual-box with your alt, OP? when i saw the post i thought that its forum bug but its only coincidence, his char is almost ugly as mine :P
Captain Pompous	Posted - 2009.01.06 11:45:00 - [110] Originally by: agroculture two Originally by: Captain Pompous Wait a moment...agroculture two and Stealing Honest look like the same person! ....why not dual-box with your alt, OP? when i saw the post i thought that its forum bug but its only coincidence, his char is almost ugly as mine :P Aww :))

Tollen Sendek Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.06 11:56:00 - [111] Hooray for the ugly Avatars On another note, I think the way you make ISK is also based on what kind of skills you get. If you're combat oriented (PvE is what I mean here), then I think your best bet is to go ratting and mission running. Industry specced is mining, refining and/or producing I guess. And then there's still trading to go for, where I think there's a lot of hard cash to earn too :) Cry Havoc, and let slip the dogs of War!
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.06 11:58:00 - [112] Originally by: Jmanis Catharg Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 06/01/2009 11:38:48 Quote: the dilemma was should i stay to play EVE when i need to farm 3times more to play PVP comparing to WOW. again i will mention the quality of the games is not comparable, EVE wins in every way. I pay for my two accounts with a credit card, but if I could be assed with the effort again I could earn 2.4 billion a month (enough for 8 accounts per month if you want to rate it like that) doing manufacturing, and this needs no special items, no T2 Blueprints, no low/0.0 access, and needs only about an hour a week (more if you don't have much ISK). Unfortunately people look to earning ISK in a "hit bricks with bricks" approach and see the only way to be "making good isk" is to be ratting every waking hour of their life because they see the ISK going into their wallets. If I got time to rat during this, it was a bonus. It's not hard to make ISK at all, people just don't think about the full potential of their characters. the only way to create ISK in this game is by bountyes and mission rewards (traders, manufacturers use the existing ISK for trade... they dont create them)and as i know there is no other way to create ISK from the game. so if ppl stop doin misions and stop ratting on belts all the game ISK will start to spend on stuff that the game only sells(example skills, when u buy skill the ISK r deleted, they dont go in other player wallet)and the game economy will colapse. thats why always there will be low worker class of players doing missions, to hold the game not to fall apart :)
Vanzatoarea	Posted - 2009.01.06 12:03:00 - [113] hahaha....maybe someone should point out that (me and op probably in the same part of the anus of the world) food/cofffee/drinks whatever here cost 80-90% of what they cost in say U.K. (i know`,bro`s in UK...maybe me soon yey)....rent closing in on that aswell so... bring on another batch of morons flaming about moaning lawns ...i work my ass 8 -10 hours/day , i`m an accountant , university degree...and i earn a staggering 140-150 euro (lol) back on topic...OP...you need to figure out some ways of AFK income , that`s about it really...thats how i keep 3 accounts up with GTC`s trade/moonmine/manufacture...all been said , worth saying again
Allahs Warrior Gallente Justified Hedonism And Dualism	Posted - 2009.01.06 12:50:00 - [114] my reply probably won't be looked at by the OP, but here's the main reason: isk deflation versus isk produced. I'd guess trillions of isk have been made off of the moons in 0.0, and flooded the market with cheaper and cheaper things, people in 0.0 make more and more isk, while people stuck in highsec (or even lowsec) mining are making less relative isk. Then you look at the obvious mining bots in certain ice or asteroid fields, hundreds of accounts all with similar names all mining in unison. They flood the market with more cheap ore. Cheap ore leads to cheaper ships, which is good for the average PVPer, but bad for the isk-producing regular miners, because they're forced to sell at a lower price. And cheaper ore also forces mission runners to sell their loot at a lower price because people can build them cheaper. It's a weird version of inflation where things cost less, and therefore make isk worth less. Sure, hulks were 500mil before, but 500mil used to be an extremely large amount of money. Now 500mil is a minor expense because of how easy it is to make money. GTCs cost more now because the people who are selling them are trying to get bigger (more expensive) things. Nobody is going to pay 35$ to get a battleship now that they're so isk-cheap, and it takes less time to save up for one. They're selling 2, 4, or even 6 at a time to get that capital ship, or that character. A character costing 1billion means that they're worth almost 70$, and these are like 9m SP characters that are SELLING for 1-1.4 billion! Selling GTCs for a character is actually cost ineffective though. You're paying 70$ for a 9m SP character which, with proper in-game time, you could train that high in 6 months, and in that time, make a lot of isk.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.01.06 12:56:00 - [115] Quote: the only way to create ISK in this game is by bountyes and mission rewards (traders, manufacturers use the existing ISK for trade... they dont create them)and as i know there is no other way to create ISK from the game. so if ppl stop doin misions and stop ratting on belts all the game ISK will start to spend on stuff that the game only sells(example skills, when u buy skill the ISK r deleted, they dont go in other player wallet)and the game economy will colapse. thats why always there will be low worker class of players doing missions, to hold the game not to fall apart :) What? OK, I understand what you are getting at, manufacturing is an ISK shifter, while ratting/mining are isk faucets. So what? As someone who funds their game through paying for GTC for ISK, I don't think you're in a position to be selective about where your ISK comes from. If have two options, earning 900 million ISK for 30 hours of gameplay from an ISK faucet, 2.4 billion from the players? I see your point, but it bears no relevance to mine. There are ways to make (as in earn, not inject, whatever the heck that has to do with your topic) ISK, you're just not choosing to engage them. The greater economic impact of whether your ISK comes from ratting or from manufacturing is irrelevant to your needs. --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
Ranik Sandaris Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2009.01.06 13:14:00 - [116] Just curious, what country are you actually from? Zoom Zoom
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.06 13:26:00 - [117] Originally by: Jmanis Catharg Quote: the only way to create ISK in this game is by bountyes and mission rewards (traders, manufacturers use the existing ISK for trade... they dont create them)and as i know there is no other way to create ISK from the game. so if ppl stop doin misions and stop ratting on belts all the game ISK will start to spend on stuff that the game only sells(example skills, when u buy skill the ISK r deleted, they dont go in other player wallet)and the game economy will colapse. thats why always there will be low worker class of players doing missions, to hold the game not to fall apart :) What? OK, I understand what you are getting at, manufacturing is an ISK shifter, while ratting/mining are isk faucets. So what? As someone who funds their game through paying for GTC for ISK, I don't think you're in a position to be selective about where your ISK comes from. If have two options, earning 900 million ISK for 30 hours of gameplay from an ISK faucet, 2.4 billion from the players? I see your point, but it bears no relevance to mine. There are ways to make (as in earn, not inject, whatever the heck that has to do with your topic) ISK, you're just not choosing to engage them. The greater economic impact of whether your ISK comes from ratting or from manufacturing is irrelevant to your needs. true but its fact that there must be high percentage of ppl that should do missions and if everyone start doing what u suggest(become traders, and manufacturers)the game wont work. its not connected to the topic but i just wanted to point that fact, i consider to be interesting and true.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.01.06 13:42:00 - [118] Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 06/01/2009 13:43:38 Quote: true but its fact that there must be high percentage of ppl that should do missions and if everyone start doing what u suggest(become traders, and manufacturers)the game wont work. Why wouldn't it? Trading takes just as much effort as PvP/PvE and reaps much bigger rewards if you're good at it tbh, so I don't propose that. But let me paint this picture for you. You have your PvP character right? And you have two free character slots right? Get the two free characters doing Indy in high sec. You'll make about 500 million or so a month. Continue your ratting as much as you do now for what I guess must be at least 600mil per two months, not including what you have to pay for your PvP fits.. What happens here? - You've manufactured a bunch of in-demand combat gear for sale. - Those sales fund your GTCs with leftover - Your PvP/PvE character is still in their usual home ratting/missioning and injecting ISK into the economy. Instead of sinking it all into a GTC, you plunge it into top-notch PvP craft because, well, you can afford to lose it now, instead of base-fit T1 gear. - That ISK which you spend buying the gear gets shuffled over to players running indy alts just like you to fund their PvP habits. So absolutely nothing changes. People can PvP far more with greater ease, and manufacturing materials get a healthy boost to their prices thanks to the increased demand. Question on your lips is probably "Rather than sell them to other players, why don't i just use them myself?" Welcome back to square one. You're manufacturing stuff for personal use doesn't put ISK in your pocket. Selling it does. --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa.	Posted - 2009.01.06 15:14:00 - [119] Originally by: Akita T An average of 30 mil ISK lost to PVP on a daily basis is quite horrible. a short while ago i had on average 100 mill in losses a day in pvp (and i was not flying t2 ships, i was flying tech 1 cruisers etc) (i could even loose 100+ mill a day flying tech 1 frigates), it all comes down to how MUCH you pvp per day, and HOW reckless/suicidal you are (which is what i find fun, maybe the op does too). sure, one can only fight when one is sure one can win without trouble and maybe even has a large backup fleet, but where's the fun in that? to the op: among what others have said for increasing you isk yeild, i'd say get more skills and upgrade you're mission ship, with a maurader you should be able to make 30 mill an hour (remember loot and salvage), and while doing missions, consider having passive isk gaining ways as well, like bpo's or R & D etc. -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Lt Angus Caldari End Game.	Posted - 2009.01.06 18:10:00 - [120] Maybe done a month of npc farming in my whole eve career, its not the best source of income and its really boring so why bother Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers



Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.