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agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:49:00 - [31] Originally by: Ralarina Edited by: Ralarina on 05/01/2009 16:45:53 Originally by: agroculture two No, I do not think this game involves too much PVE farming. It's a sandbox; you can PVE if you want to; there's nothing forcing you to PVE. I've not done a mission in about a year, I've not ratted for 4 months and im making more money than I'm losing. "You're doing it wrong." is all I can say. do u pvp?
SniperWo1f Omega Enterprises 0mega Factor	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:49:00 - [32] Edited by: SniperWo1f on 05/01/2009 16:50:07 Originally by: Ralarina Edited by: Ralarina on 05/01/2009 16:45:53 Originally by: agroculture two No, I do not think this game involves too much PVE farming. It's a sandbox; you can PVE if you want to; there's nothing forcing you to PVE. I've not done a mission in about a year, I've not ratted for 4 months and im making more money than I'm losing. "You're doing it wrong." is all I can say. that pretty much sums it up in the beginning you have to generate isk but with the right investments you make not even make million but you'll have enough to enjoy the game. im not going to commenton the gtc thing at all because if you can't afford to pay straight cash to play eve then tbh you shouldn't be you should be taking care of rl "In Rust We Trust"
Asestorian Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:56:00 - [33] Originally by: Cambarus I love how you can spot a GTC seller from a mile away on these forums >_< I've never sold a GTC. I've never bought a GTC, or otherwise owned one --- Originally by: CCP Atropos Destiny Balls
James LeMort	Posted - 2009.01.05 17:00:00 - [34] You like to pvp, you need around 40 mil isk/day to geta gtc and sik to pvp with, why niot hire you'reself out as a mercenary for 50 mil isk/day. If you can market you're services you can earn the isk you need and get all the pvp you want
Ralarina Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2009.01.05 17:01:00 - [35] Edited by: Ralarina on 05/01/2009 17:02:16 Originally by: agroculture two Originally by: Ralarina Edited by: Ralarina on 05/01/2009 16:45:53 Originally by: agroculture two No, I do not think this game involves too much PVE farming. It's a sandbox; you can PVE if you want to; there's nothing forcing you to PVE. I've not done a mission in about a year, I've not ratted for 4 months and im making more money than I'm losing. "You're doing it wrong." is all I can say. do u pvp? Yes, for about 3 or 4 hours each night, in faction ships or ships with faction fittings with all the HG pirate implant sets etc. And yes I lose them on a regular basis ... and no, I don't sell GTC for it. Or what, you thought Vivicide was the name of a mining corp? --
Kurt Gergard Caldari Husarian Loyalists	Posted - 2009.01.05 17:15:00 - [36] I'll bite. First of all making 25 mil/h in a faction fitted cnr or golem is realy easy so you can cut down the time needed to make your isk. There are other things to do as well that will bring you bigger proft - setup your industrial corp and take advantage over other members of your corp. P.S. I do not think that the problem lies in "too much farming" but rather in "farming is boring as hell". If this is your point than yes I agree CCP please make farming fun not feeling like a second job I need to pay for :D ================================================ "No plan has ever survived the contact with the enemy" von Moltke
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.05 17:17:00 - [37] Here's proof: EVE is the only game where you CAN buy gametime with money earned. And, 120e/month is nowhere average and you will lose more then 12e/month if you don't play. Playing saves, if you count in all the food/others stuff you DON'T use while playing, alot. I've calculated a good 20e/month saved with an active game. More so even. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Ralarina Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2009.01.05 17:38:00 - [38] Originally by: Kurt Gergard "farming is boring as hell". If this is your point than yes I agree I'd say "PvE" is boring as hell. --
Cyrus Brown	Posted - 2009.01.05 17:53:00 - [39] Get a job.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.05 17:56:00 - [40] 1) GTC Sellers are still there, the reason the price skyrocketed is the RL Money cost of a 60D GTC. RMT don't mind at prices, so they just put WTB GTC on the forum and someone will eventually give 'em. 2) Your average salary is extremely low. 3) Stop playing then. 4) YOu'll spend over 90% of your playtime in WOW Farming, no matter how much a GTC costs there. 5) your name should be agriculture two. there, i proved you wrong. ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.

Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2009.01.05 18:04:00 - [41] Edited by: Gnomes Rock on 05/01/2009 18:03:57 Originally by: agroculture two 120euros r enough for one person(when u convert them to our money) problem is that i pay same price for the game as those high standard countries, 15euros in england is one beer in pub but where i am u can get smashed drunk with that much money :) 15euros in England is enough for about 5~ pints.
Lui Kai Better Than You	Posted - 2009.01.05 18:22:00 - [42] So...a month's play isn't worth 15 euro to you, but someone else should pay 15 euro and sell it for less isk? If you're having to hardcore farm to fund your account - you're doing it wrong. ----------------
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2009.01.05 18:35:00 - [43] What a bunch of ***s. The guy said the average salary in his country in 120 euros. not that his* average income is 120 euros. about 90% of your comments are totally invalid if you actually bother to grasp this simple fact. "You'll spend more if you don't play" - no he won't. The local costs of living are geared to low income. Eve is 12% of his monthly income which for me would mean paying $800 a month to play. "You're ******ed to spend that much of your income on a game" - He's not. He plays with GTCs. If he couldn't pay with ISK then he can't play. "Get a job" - He's got a fuggin job already. The problem, Mr Two, is that most people do not pay to play with ISK, they pay with real $. So then they only need to farm or trade or build enough to pay for their ships. Some months that might be zero. So no, there isn't too much farming needed to play eve. It just so happens that Eve is the only game that lets you pay with ISK so some people end up farming a lot to play. Now, this scheme was intended so that people with no money and lots of time could trade some of their time with people with the opposite problem: lots of money but no time. This works pretty well, but you live in a little corner where the equation is fubar'd because of the low value of your local currency. So you haven't got lots of time to spend farming, but you haven't got enough RL money either. It's a catch-22. There's really not a lot that CCP can do to help you out. I can see your options as: - Stop playing Eve. Face the fact that due to your geographical location, you just can't play the game without lots of farming. If you don't want to do that, then too bad. - Play eve a lot more. It seems to me that you could turn you problem into a solution: Play eve as a fulltime job and sell the isk you farm to one of the big isk-selling outfits. Obviously illegal but if there are people in China supporting a family doing this then it sounds like you could probably support yourself. - Play smarter. I make several billion a month manufacturing and trading. I spend about 2 hours a day doing this. If I only wanted to make enough money to buy GTC I could probably spend 2 hours a week on trading. A lot of people try trading/manufacturing and give up. Don't be like that; persevere and eventually it will pay you back 10x. - Play for a living: Join a proper Merc corp so you get paid to PvP. Take up pirating as a proper profession. You can make enough to buy GTC just by shooting people. That's about all I can think of for now. Hope you figure something out, but basically because of your location you are stuck with a much harsher deal than most of us. That's life.
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2009.01.05 18:40:00 - [44] Originally by: Concorduck 1) GTC Sellers are still there, the reason the price skyrocketed is the RL Money cost of a 60D GTC. RMT don't mind at prices, so they just put WTB GTC on the forum and someone will eventually give 'em. 2) Your average salary is extremely low. 3) Stop playing then. 4) YOu'll spend over 90% of your playtime in WOW Farming, no matter how much a GTC costs there. 5) your name should be agriculture two. there, i proved you wrong. The only thing proved by that is that you can't read. Come back when you've left elementary school.
Bklyn 1	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:02:00 - [45] OP is correct, he should quit Eve. Other games are more conducive to farming. He should play those. BTW, I work in NYC. Lunch and the subway to and from my job costs about the same as a month of Eve. It's not like Eve is soooooo expensive.
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:06:00 - [46] Originally by: Shadowschild It's clear that agroculture two is too cheap to cough up the monthly fee. $15.00 is a joke. Dude, did you even read his post? The average income in his country is only around $120 (per month, I presume). I don't think being concerned about spending 13% of your income on a game every month makes you "cheap". In comparison, I would end up paying a little more than $1,000 USD per month on a single EVE account. And while we're at it, can we ever finally stop responding with every single post by someone who is concerned about sticking with eve with "GTFO" or "You're not hardcore enough" or "you're too cheap" or something? Yes, there is a time for being a dismissive ***** to people like trolls and rage-quitters. Making it the standard response for everyone, regardless of their tone, just seems belligerent. It's like your friend saying "I can't hang out for awhile with you guys, because I have to go chill with this new girl I'm seeing" and you responding with "fine go ** yourself we never want to see you again!". It makes us seem like bigger babies than the people we accuse of being babies for having issues with eve. Not to mention, it diminishes the power of the responses when they're truly deserved. -- What's your EVE New Year's Resolution for 2009?
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:19:00 - [47] Originally by: Tiirae What a bunch of ***s. The guy said the average salary in his country in 120 euros. not that his* average income is 120 euros. about 90% of your comments are totally invalid if you actually bother to grasp this simple fact. Actually, he did say that his income is little more than $120. Also, he says $15 is 12.5% of his total salary, which means his total salary is $120. OP: I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. -- What's your EVE New Year's Resolution for 2009?
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:20:00 - [48] Originally by: Tiirae Originally by: Tiirae What a bunch of ***s. The guy said the average salary in his country in 120 euros. not that his* average income is 120 euros. about 90% of your comments are totally invalid if you actually bother to grasp this simple fact. "You'll spend more if you don't play" - no he won't. The local costs of living are geared to low income. Eve is 12% of his monthly income which for me would mean paying $800 a month to play. "You're ****ed to spend that much of your income on a game" - He's not. He plays with GTCs. If he couldn't pay with ISK then he can't play. "Get a job" - He's got a fuggin job already. The problem, Mr Two, is that most people do not pay to play with ISK, they pay with real $. So then they only need to farm or trade or build enough to pay for their ships. Some months that might be zero. So no, there isn't too much farming needed to play eve. It just so happens that Eve is the only game that lets you pay with ISK so some people end up farming a lot to play. Now, this scheme was intended so that people with no money and lots of time could trade some of their time with people with the opposite problem: lots of money but no time. This works pretty well, but you live in a little corner where the equation is fubar'd because of the low value of your local currency. So you haven't got lots of time to spend farming, but you haven't got enough RL money either. It's a catch-22. There's really not a lot that CCP can do to help you out. I can see your options as: - Stop playing Eve. Face the fact that due to your geographical location, you just can't play the game without lots of farming. If you don't want to do that, then too bad. - Play eve a lot more. It seems to me that you could turn you problem into a solution: Play eve as a fulltime job and sell the isk you farm to one of the big isk-selling outfits. Obviously illegal but if there are people in China supporting a family doing this then it sounds like you could probably support yourself. - Play smarter. I make several billion a month manufacturing and trading. I spend about 2 hours a day doing this. If I only wanted to make enough money to buy GTC I could probably spend 2 hours a week on trading. A lot of people try trading/manufacturing and give up. Don't be like that; persevere and eventually it will pay you back 10x. - Play for a living: Join a proper Merc corp so you get paid to PvP. Take up pirating as a proper profession. You can make enough to buy GTC just by shooting people. That's about all I can think of for now. Hope you figure something out, but basically because of your location you are stuck with a much harsher deal than most of us. That's life. The only thing proved by that is that you can't read. Come back when you've left elementary school. Here we go ----------------------------------------- Originally by:** Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:31:00 - [49] Edited by: Qordel on 05/01/2009 19:36:25 Originally by: Bklyn 1 OP is correct, he should quit Eve. Other games are more conducive to farming. He should play those. BTW, I work in NYC. Lunch and the subway to and from my job costs about the same as a month of Eve. It's not like Eve is soooooo expensive. How much things cost where you are is not relevant. I'm from the west cost and the price of EVE per month is what I spend on coffee per day. In some countries, the cost of EVE would pay for a month worth of groceries. You're seriously comparing your cost of living and your income in one of the most expensive cities in the world with that of some guy in a place where $120-euro is the average income? What is the point? Imagine you only make about $160 USD per month and you still live in New York and pay New York prices for things. Now THAT would be of some relevance and illustrate the poster's predicament. The problem here is that people seem to have the idea that they should always pay for things at a price adjusted for their local economy. However, CCP doesn't live in your country or have the same economy. CCP's expenses and costs of operation are not adjusted based on the region the player is in. Let's say I sell radios. I live in America. I pay American wages to American employees. I pay American prices for parts. I pay American prices for leasing operations space. I pay American taxes and have general American costs of overhead. My cost of business is in USD. If I pay $15 USD to build each radio, that is how much I spend. The radio is not cheaper for me to produce if the buyer lives in a country where $15 USD is a month's wages. So, yes, it is very unfortunate for people who live in places with drastically different economies who find it very difficult to justify paying for EVE. However, the only other option is for CCP to subsidize your game play and it is not reasonable to expect anyone - especially a business - to subsidize your use of their products simply because your economy is a lot different than the rest that they operate in. All you can really do is decide how badly you want to play EVE and whether it is worth it to you to pay that percentage of your income or to invest that much of your time to pay for it in ISK. The clear answer is to pay with ISK. If people pay for their accounts in ISK and they live in economies where an EVE subscription is one tenth of one percent of their monthly income, then it most certainly seems reasonable for someone to do so when it would account for 12.5% of their income. By the way, I would be curious to know what country it is that someone can afford internet access fast enough to play eve on $160 USD / month! Economic differences aside, the infrastructure for that should be prohibitive! -- What's your EVE New Year's Resolution for 2009?
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:43:00 - [50] Originally by: Qordel Originally by: Tiirae What a bunch of ***s. The guy said the average salary in his country in 120 euros. not that his* average income is 120 euros. about 90% of your comments are totally invalid if you actually bother to grasp this simple fact. Actually, he did say that his income is little more than $120. Also, he says $15 is 12.5% of his total salary, which means his total salary is $120. OP: I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. i calculated 12.5% from the average salary... for me is 10.7% but still to much to pay.

agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:46:00 - [51] thx to the ppl with constructive replies, maybe some of the suggestions could work for me
Michelle Vega	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:51:00 - [52] Do what some of us do. Open the market and type 30 into the quick search and buy your self a 30 day pilots license (plex) and voila. The price varries from 290m - 340m :)
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:54:00 - [53] Originally by: agroculture two 2. I have work, I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. So make some math(open calc, type your salary-12.5%=eve subscription monthly) and u will how I feel about paying the game with real money. Not to be an ass but I really think you need to be doing something with your time other than playing video games. Get a hair cut and get a real job, your monthly income of 120 Euro is equivalent to $163 USD, a kid working part-time at McDonald's makes more than that a week. If you're a kid then stop *****ing, you probably don't have many other expenses. If you're a college/university student then spend that time studying so you can make more when you graduate. If you're an adult...WTF man get off your arse and get a real job, spend that time on education/training instead of goofing around playing video games. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Cygnus Scott Originally by: agroculture two 2. I have work, I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. So make some math(open calc, type your salary-12.5%=eve subscription monthly) and u will how I feel about paying the game with real money. Not to be an ass but I really think you need to be doing something with your time other than playing video games. Get a hair cut and get a real job, your monthly income of 120 Euro is equivalent to $163 USD, a kid working part-time at McDonald's makes more than that a week. If you're a kid then stop *****ing, you probably don't have many other expenses. If you're a college/university student then spend that time studying so you can make more when you graduate. If you're an adult...WTF man get off your arse and get a real job, spend that time on education/training instead of goofing around playing video games. i have high education and i work in internet cafe (my friend owns the cafe or i would not work atall)... u dont know how is to live in country in "transition" but i undestand why u cant undestand :D
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:06:00 - [55] Originally by: Cygnus Scott Originally by: agroculture two 2. I have work, I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. So make some math(open calc, type your salary-12.5%=eve subscription monthly) and u will how I feel about paying the game with real money. Not to be an ass but I really think you need to be doing something with your time other than playing video games. Get a hair cut and get a real job, your monthly income of 120 Euro is equivalent to $163 USD, a kid working part-time at McDonald's makes more than that a week. If you're a kid then stop *****ing, you probably don't have many other expenses. If you're a college/university student then spend that time studying so you can make more when you graduate. If you're an adult...WTF man get off your arse and get a real job, spend that time on education/training instead of goofing around playing video games. The guy said he makes MORE than the average income of $163 USD in his country. That means he is obviously NOT some early 20s american kid in his basemant hitting the bong in his misfits tee-shirt. I find it a little offensive that people are treating this guy like he's some do-nothing bum. As he said, that salary provides a very comfortable living in his country. That would explain why it's the average salary in his country. There are people in India (who often end up with our jobs, imagine that!) who make 15% of what their American counterparts do. That doesn't mean they're lazy bums who "need to get a job". Very often they have university educations and even PHDs. That they make 15% of the income the American counterpart makes has nothing to do with their education or work ethic and everything to do with the adjusted cost of living. The issue HERE is that while local products and expenses are obviously adjusted for one's cost of living, EVE is not. Not that EVE should be, of course. -- What's your EVE New Year's Resolution for 2009?
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:10:00 - [56] Originally by: Tiirae What a bunch of ***s. The guy said the average salary in his country in 120 euros. not that his* average income is 120 euros. about 90% of your comments are totally invalid if you actually bother to grasp this simple fact. Wrong, re-read his statement. I've bolded the pertinent parts for ease of understanding. Originally by: agroculture two 2. I have work, I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. So make some math(open calc, type your salary-12.5%=eve subscription monthly) and u will how I feel about paying the game with real money. He clearly mentions that 15 Euros is 12.5% of HIS total salary, even though he mentions he makes slightly more than the average. If dude lives in some part of Eastern Europe then that is one thing, but TBH that means that geographically the man cannot afford to play the game. His income cannot support it, its that simple. I can't afford a $1500 a month car payment on top of my other bills so I don't drive a Porsche 911 GT3 RS. Its reality, we all have our financial limitations. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:15:00 - [57] Originally by: agroculture two [ i have high education and i work in internet cafe (my friend owns the cafe or i would not work atall)... u dont know how is to live in country in "transition" but i undestand why u cant undestand :D My mistake, I saw you mention England and thought you lived there where you should be capable of making much more. If you're in one of the Eastern European counties just coming into the EU then your situation/dilemma is understandable and I apologize for my assumption that you're just one of the whiners who really have no legit excuse but their own laziness. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:23:00 - [58] Originally by: Cygnus Scott Originally by: Tiirae What a bunch of ***s. The guy said the average salary in his country in 120 euros. not that his* average income is 120 euros. about 90% of your comments are totally invalid if you actually bother to grasp this simple fact. Wrong, re-read his statement. I've bolded the pertinent parts for ease of understanding. Originally by: agroculture two 2. I have work, I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. So make some math(open calc, type your salary-12.5%=eve subscription monthly) and u will how I feel about paying the game with real money. He clearly mentions that 15 Euros is 12.5% of HIS total salary, even though he mentions he makes slightly more than the average. If dude lives in some part of Eastern Europe then that is one thing, but TBH that means that geographically the man cannot afford to play the game. His income cannot support it, its that simple. I can't afford a $1500 a month car payment on top of my other bills so I don't drive a Porsche 911 GT3 RS. Its reality, we all have our financial limitations. sry it was mistake i mentioned above: i calculated 12.5% from the average salary... for me is 10.7% but still to much to pay.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:37:00 - [59] Originally by: agroculture two Originally by: Cygnus Scott Originally by: Tiirae What a bunch of ***s. The guy said the average salary in his country in 120 euros. not that his* average income is 120 euros. about 90% of your comments are totally invalid if you actually bother to grasp this simple fact. Wrong, re-read his statement. I've bolded the pertinent parts for ease of understanding. Originally by: agroculture two 2. I have work, I earn little more than the average but the average salary here is 120euros, so if I pay 15euros/month for a video game that is 12.5% of my total salary. So make some math(open calc, type your salary-12.5%=eve subscription monthly) and u will how I feel about paying the game with real money. He clearly mentions that 15 Euros is 12.5% of HIS total salary, even though he mentions he makes slightly more than the average. If dude lives in some part of Eastern Europe then that is one thing, but TBH that means that geographically the man cannot afford to play the game. His income cannot support it, its that simple. I can't afford a $1500 a month car payment on top of my other bills so I don't drive a Porsche 911 GT3 RS. Its reality, we all have our financial limitations. sry it was mistake i mentioned above: i calculated 12.5% from the average salary... for me is 10.7% but still to much to pay. 140 is not that far from 120. ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
agroculture two	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:38:00 - [60] Originally by: Michelle Vega Do what some of us do. Open the market and type 30 into the quick search and buy your self a 30 day pilots license (plex) and voila. The price varries from 290m - 340m :) i remember the times i buy 90day for 350mil before, now i can play 1month with that much ISK.



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