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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.01.06 11:32:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 06/01/2009 11:32:27
Shouldn't they reduce the rate shield recharge and thus be the inverse of Shield Power Relays? That would give them a tradeoff for armor tankers besides the loss of a lowslot and they'd become useful for active shield tankers with cap issues.
Makes better sense to me..
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Eventus stultorum magister. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 11:44:00 -
[2]
They are already extremely powerful as it is, changing them as you suggested would make them lol overpowered. (but also make me happy in the pants - might be worth it)
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.01.06 11:59:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 06/01/2009 11:58:54
Well for armor tankers, they'd reduce shield recharge. Shields still act as a small buffer before you have to turn the reppers on. Cap power relays are already too overpowered for armortankers because they have no drawbacks at all. And I don't see how they could be overpowered for active shield tankers - you'd still have to trade away damage mods or damage control, etc to use them.
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Eventus stultorum magister. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 12:05:00 -
[4]
On capital ships they are extremely useful - I dare say the only valid low slot module, except on the phoenix - in conjunction with a shield tank.
On armour they are very powerful indeed, but prices on them are very reasonable and it hasn't lead to any imbalanced set-ups yet. (unless you call the rr chimera and wyvern of doom imba)
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Trefnis
Minmatar
Viper Squad
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Posted - 2009.01.06 12:06:00 -
[5]
Then you have not been here long enough, back in the days there were no penalty.
and perma shield tanking apocs were really common (i know it sounds stupid now).
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
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Posted - 2009.01.06 12:13:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Well for armor tankers, they'd reduce shield recharge. Shields still act as a small buffer before you have to turn the reppers on.
Exactly, buffer - an essentially static bunch of hitpoints that need to be removed before you take armour damage. Shield recharge is completely irrelevant for an armour tanker - 99% of the time you'll be down to zero shields straight away and they have pretty much no regen at that point. Alternatively, if someone was doing little enough dmage that the natural regen was at all relevant, then they're not going to be able to break your actual armour tank anyway. In all cases, shield regen rate is irrelevant for armour tankers in a fight.
Quote:
Cap power relays are already too overpowered for armortankers because they have no drawbacks at all.
Yes they do - they take up lowslots, which you're already using for your tank (and damage mods, though I'm not sure it's entirely fair to bring that into a discussion of armour vs shield tanking). That might sound trite, but it is pretty relevant.
Quote:
And I don't see how they could be overpowered for active shield tankers - you'd still have to trade away damage mods or damage control, etc to use them.
That's exactly how they are now, and people do still use them. If you were to make this change, then it's basically a 20-30% boost to any CPR-using shield tank, and it's not like they need the boost.
Essentially, you fit CPRs when you're using a lot of cap. That implies active tanking, and neither type of active tanking really cares about shield regen rates. CPRs are definitely better balanced in their current state than in what you're proposed, whether they "make sense" or not.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.01.06 12:16:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Cap power relays are already too overpowered for armortankers because they have no drawbacks at all. And I don't see how they could be overpowered for active shield tankers - you'd still have to trade away damage mods or damage control, etc to use them.
They're not overpowered for active shield tankers, because the would have to trade away damage mods or DC.
But they are overpowered for armor tankers, who have to trade away damage mods, dc, reppers and hardeners?
Ehm... Mr. Brain? Wake up please.
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Misina Arlath
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.06 12:49:00 -
[8]
Without CPR's it would be really tough to make any active armor tanking setups work.
Also, armor has no passive regen like shields do, so you're 100% reliant on the repper being active.
CPR's are great, yes, but to use CPR's as Amarr, I have to sacrifice Heat Sinks, DCU's, Hardeners, EANM's and other stuff that is much more useful with regards to maxing your tanking.
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"Every complex problem has a solution which is easy, neat and wrong!" |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.06 13:12:00 -
[9]
It should give drawback to armor tankers too.
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Ka'loor
Amarr
Die Argonen
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Posted - 2009.01.06 13:17:00 -
[10]
You know the CPRs did work like that at some point.
You can imagine how many Shield tanking ships were flying around with that.
Its easy as a ****** to get enough damage mods and CPRs in the lows to get a Shield booster permatank.
And then already in 03 CCP switched the penalty, so it became a mod for armor tankers instead of shieldtankers....
Attack without mercy, until blood is gone, until life is gone, until the light is gone, unto the shadow itself.
Better to die with honor, than to live in shame. |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.06 13:19:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Misina Arlath
Without CPR's it would be really tough to make any active armor tanking setups work.
Also, armor has no passive regen like shields do, so you're 100% reliant on the repper being active.
CPR's are great, yes, but to use CPR's as Amarr, I have to sacrifice Heat Sinks, DCU's, Hardeners, EANM's and other stuff that is much more useful with regards to maxing your tanking.
Quess what shield tankers have to sacrifice med slots for cap rechargers,because without them they cant sustain the reppers.
Oh and capacitor power relay>>cap recharger ,there is no reason to not give cap rechargers an armour rep drawback.
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el caido
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Posted - 2009.01.06 14:39:00 -
[12]
The system, as it currently is, works. CPRs reduce the available lows for an armor tank and reduce the ability for an active shield tank. Anyone who wants to add an armor rep penalty to rechargers flies Caldari, and therefore, your opinions don't matter.
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Misina Arlath
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.06 14:45:00 -
[13]
How's this work?
CPR's go in low's where the armor repper goes, thus give penalty to shields.
Cap Recharger go in the meds where the shield booster goes, thus give penalty to armor?
Leave my eff'ing CPR's alone, and stop nerfing Amarr.
What's next, giving us only two damage types?
Oh, wait!?
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"Every complex problem has a solution which is easy, neat and wrong!" |
Onewingedangel
Minmatar
Armada.
Onslaught.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 17:01:00 -
[14]
OMG teh Amarr gots teh be nerfed. Cap power relays work fine as it is, adding an armor rep penalty = mecha fail. It already takes a low slot which = an armor tank/dps penalty.
CPR only has 4% recharge over Cap Recharger II, so we better nerf that too while we're here. You know, the more things are nerfed the less options we all have which makes the game more static and uninteresting.
Seriously, an armor rep penalty would make this module fail, and we both know a shield regen penalty is a joke. You just want the module with no drawback at all, and a regen penalty on an active shield tank is basically no penalty. Not enough cake in the world for you.
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TimMc
Gallente
Brutal Deliverance
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.06 17:51:00 -
[15]
It uses a low slot. Just in case you haven't noticed... all armour mods are low slots.
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.06 17:58:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 06/01/2009 18:04:29
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
and they'd become useful for active shield tankers with cap issues.
The whole point of that reduction was done specifically to stop active shield tankers from using them. So no.
Originally by: Trefnis
and perma shield tanking apocs were really common (i know it sounds stupid now).
Ahhh, the hayday of the apoc. I remember it well. 
Let's also not forget that PDUs boost shield HP and recharge. Stop whining about CPRs
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"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Psir
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Posted - 2009.01.06 18:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: TimMc
It uses a low slot. Just in case you haven't noticed... all armour mods are low slots.
Yes, because shield tankers are known to have an abundance of mid slots to put cap rechargers in. No wait, that's shield tankers again!
It's a fairly useless module for active shield tankers (although I'm sure there are a few faction fit golems in space that use it) but an extremely useful module for anyone else. I feel that armor tanking is better than shield tanking overall but changing CPR's is not the right way to go about it.
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Grendelsbane
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Posted - 2009.01.06 18:19:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
It should give drawback to armor tankers too.
It does. The opportunity cost of having to use up a lowslot. Is there an echo in here?
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Katarlia Simov
Minmatar
Cowboys From Hell
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Posted - 2009.01.06 18:53:00 -
[19]
I was under the impression that 'cap stable' is what you refer to a PvE ship that allows you to get beer or watch tv while you run missions...
Cap stable ships definitely aren't what's called for in Pvp, and most people much prefer to either max their damage or make their tank harder.
Cap relays aren't to my knowledge used on any really mainstream PvP set-ups, because just about EVERYONE cap boosts these days.
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