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Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.08 16:52:00 - [31] Edited by: Tippia on 08/01/2009 16:52:40 Originally by: Savage Roar Originally by: Infinity Ziona Person 1 has repair drones repair his own ship. have you even PLAYED eve? the fact that you seem to think you can put your rep drones on yourself would suggest you haven't. Read what he wrote — the fact that you seem to think that he believes this is how it works suggests that you haven't. …that said, the OP's idea is still silly. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks Terradyne Networks Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.08 17:02:00 - [32] This thread makes me miss the whines of the soloist on the DAOC vn boards. Oh good times making them cry.
Barkaial Starfinder Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.08 17:04:00 - [33] I agree with the OP on the Leadership skills, but.. it's not going to happen.
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.01.08 17:06:00 - [34] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Everyones probably seen those signs on the highway. They're there as a warning, you realise your mistake turn around and choose a different path. Years ago CCP took a wrong turn, they decided to make a group of people more powerful then a single person. They did this by adding group bonuses, ships that buffed groups, modules that buffed groups, ships that helped out other ships, implants that buffed groups, drones that helped out a groups ships. They deliberately prenerfed modules and bonuses that could be applied to the skilled persons ship if that person wasnt in a group - you could be an expert in sensor boosting ships and thus get a very large bonus but only if your mate with sensor linking 1 is in the group with you?. The whole idea was to make groups > soloers. Thats a bad thing? Surely not? A group of people should be better then a solo ship surely? Except... The one thing CCP didnt realise was... wait for it.... A GROUP OF PEOPLE WERE ALREADY SUPERIOR TO A SOLO PLAYER. Yep its been scientifically proven and there is ample evidence to suggest that undocking a lone ship in 2003-2004 into a fleet of like ships could and many times did end up unpleasantly for the lone ship. Sc**** that chin off that floor. I speak the truth. Why do you think they made the changes to groups such that single players trained in the skills dont get bonuses but groups do. And additionally why did groups which already were existing in large blobs need additional reasons to get into large blobs? Does CCP really hate people who solo? And do you think soloers have no place in EvE? Infinity Yeah it really amazes me that a GROUP of people should be more powerful than a SINGLE player in a massively MULTIPLAYER online game what were ccp thinking?
Arvald Caldari MasterBlasters Inc. CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.01.08 17:11:00 - [35] so your telling me that 20 guys with shotguns should not be mroe powerfull then one guy with a butterknife? i edit spelling for no one
jimmy jack	Posted - 2009.01.08 17:15:00 - [36] i see where your coming from, but i belive you are still wrong. there are some things soloist can do better than any group can and always will. soloist can do covert ops better alone than in a group. when in a groupe they are still buy themselves alot and usually a system or 2 away so dont get the gang bonuses as well. explorers do good on their own as it is easier to move in claimed space alone than in a blob... the thing is alot of things in eve are based on real theories and sound ideas. a group in reality shares the bonuses of each individual in the group. when in a group of peers working on a common goal it is common for each individule to share his gift with the others. lets take a squad of marines.. youve got men trained for m-4s then you got the grenaiders with the 203s attached you got the saw gunners and the 240 bravos... sometimes you have a sharpshooter or a sniper. can all the guys do each others job satisfactory,,but the machin gunner is not gonna do the job of the sniper as well as the sniper. that being said the having the sniper with the marines gives the entire groupe long range engagment options. the maching gunners gives the entire squade fire suppression the 203s give artillery and the m4s give scouts. throw medics in there and youve given the entire squad medical skills.. each marine has been trained in basic combat treatment yes but the medics specialize in it. they boost eachother. same thing in eve. what your wanting is to have your cake and eat it too. as much as id like it its not right and shouldnt be. your one ship you shouldnt be able to fit to fill all the roles as well as a gang of 5 people also some fleet bonuses that affect things like speed really dont make sense..... but i can see the other ones in place as they are.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.01.08 17:18:00 - [37] While the OP might not have articulated the point as well as it could be, the OP is indeed correct. Further more, CCP has been nerfing the solo players for quite a while. CCP keeps reducing the maximum capability for damage and tank in a single ship and increasing the capabilities of gangs. While I don't really mind boosting gangs with gang links and fleet bonuses and stuff, I'm really against nerfing single ships. Marauders had a real chance at being a decent solo ship, but they broke the lock speed and sensor strength. Anyway, I'm hoping that T3 gives players the opportunity to build really good solo ships, but I doubt it's going to work that way. If it does, I'll probably be staying with Eve, if not, gonna find something else. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
Aceoil Eyes of the Night Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.08 17:51:00 - [38] Originally by: Infinity Ziona A GROUP OF PEOPLE WERE ALREADY SUPERIOR TO A SOLO PLAYER. You never ran into a nanodomi did you?
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.01.08 17:54:00 - [39] Then they should make a means to engage multiple targets and overly nerf its effectivness against 1 target? Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.01.08 18:11:00 - [40] lol at "scr-ape" being filtered.
SiJira	Posted - 2009.01.08 18:19:00 - [41] there is no going back now mortal
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2009.01.08 18:43:00 - [42] A gang will almost always trump a soloer, with or without the bonuses. The gang bonuses are there to give the advantage to the fleet that takes the trouble to get itself organized and use specialized ships/modules and chars vs. another fleet that doesn't. This isn't at all far fetched as even in current military a unit that has the ability of sharing data and coordinating fire among its members will be more effective than the one that doesn't.
Feilamya Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.01.08 18:50:00 - [43] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Years ago CCP took a wrong turn, they decided to make a group of people more powerful then a single person. I think they decided to took this turn because it would have been much harder to implement the other way round.
rValdez5987 Amarr 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.	Posted - 2009.01.08 19:13:00 - [44] Originally by: Ticondrius I don't get the OP's whine. I thought this was an MMO? Not everyone wants to have to have a personal gang following them around EVERYTIME they pvp. Personally, solo is mostly dead, but when you do find a good 4v1 or even 15v1 fight with no ecm, and you win, it redeems all your failures for the entire year.
Nva Ris	Posted - 2009.01.08 19:23:00 - [45] Groups are inherently at a disadvantage facing one individual because they spend time communicating with each other, deciding what to do, and making sure everyone follows orders, hence their reaction time is slowed down. The blob is always one step behind a solo pvper.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2009.01.08 19:25:00 - [46] hahah to all the "its an mmo, get some friends" idiots. SPECIFICALLY QUOTED FROM THE QUESTION AND ANSWER THREAD: "we want to keep SOLO AND SMALL GANG WARFARE VIABLE". Damn, whats that mean? That means that in CCP's own mind, flying around BY YOUR SELF should not always lead to getting ass **d by 20 guys. ITS IN THEIR OWN GAME DESIGN, and yet all you douche bags get on the wagon and trumpet "its an mmo, its an mmo" like some **ed parrot that's clueless. So, the moron that said that EVE doesn't cater to solo play can take his foot out of his mouth, as I see hundreds of solo guys daily, mission running their brains out, and all the other morons who spouted off about this topic without actually knowing any facts are just as wrong. CCP wanted small gang, AND solo warfare to be viable, but somehow, along the way, screwed it up, so now we have idiots who sit in station un-docks in low sec playing ****ed station games now, instead of actually going out to PVP until CCP slowly fix the problem.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.01.08 20:37:00 - [47] o/ SKUNK
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.01.08 20:50:00 - [48] As once a solo wanderer I used to be able to outrun and outsmart far larger gangs of people for weeks on end. Fighting them is a different story and I'd probably wouldnt have tried it to be honest.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.01.08 21:03:00 - [49] Can one really use leadership on one's self?
Takashi X2	Posted - 2009.01.08 21:03:00 - [50] Edited by: Takashi X2 on 08/01/2009 21:07:22 I love how the op mentioned wow and left out that they too have a group bonus aka te paladin so many auras and what not that make a group more uber (and just incase you want ot counter me on that just look at blessing of kings you have to use talent point (aka training) to get it and you can boost every member of the group with it)
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.01.08 22:48:00 - [51] I don't see what's so difficult to grasp here. I consider the following 2 things to be true (and rightfully so): * It's an MMO - groups and cooperation gets you advantages * EVE is a big place with room for several play styles - soloing being one of them. Just don't expect to be as efficient as a well-knit group. The fun in solo play is not im being generally competitive - that would be silly. The fun is being either the solo covops scout or the lonely guy who wrecks havoc behind the lines - or just escaping gangs or having the occasional win against bigger gangs - being all the more sweet for it's difficulties. Everybody can win with the bigger blob - that's a given. Being successful against the odds - even just on some rare occasions - that's glorious. CCP was right to introduce gang bonuses. Solo players are right in going it alone if that is what they enjoy. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.01.08 23:00:00 - [52] It's pretty simple really. Noone force you to train leadership skills if you don't intend to use it (i.e. in a group). To make some comparisons; RL - as a "leader" on a company, you try to encourage co-workers to perform better. Your leadership skills won't affect yourself, obviously. RL - if you're in the army, got some tactical skills and charisma/social skills to match, you're a natural born leader. That won't help you much if you're on your own. Fantasy MMO - if you roll a support class and spec, say a healer, you won't be able to solo things very effectively. You probably can, but slow. If you train leadership skills in EVE you can benefit from them by having a buddy in system, it could very well be a 1 day old nub corp character in a pod, for all it matters. But just like in other games, as well as in real life, you won't beenfit from leadership skills if you don't have anyone to lead.
D'ceet Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.08 23:56:00 - [53] you have obviously never met Ditchdoctor....
Xori Ruscuv Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.01.09 00:41:00 - [54] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 09/01/2009 00:41:59 Obligatory: Wow, gang features in a mMo. Whodathunkit? But I'd like to see soloing make a little bit of a return. Just a little. Pweeze see see pee?
Max Mem	Posted - 2009.01.09 01:18:00 - [55] Originally by: Franga I believe soloers who just freakin' run missions in the newb corps have no place in EVE. Hate that. But solo PVP, that's a different story. Love it and get what you're saying, however - it's been said before. And more succinctly. \ Why ??
Bumbum George	Posted - 2009.01.09 01:35:00 - [56] What is it with all this solo pvp whinage the last days? Just fyi guys, solo pvp ist still fuing viable! All you really need is 4 thing and since it's late in the night in I will just name them for you: 1. the right ship 2. the knowledge of how to use said ship, what to engage and when to do so 3. the right place 4. a shload of patience easy as that. gang bonuses on your self won't help you much, more precisely if you need those you did it wrong in the first place. there a quite a few excellent solo pvpers out there, spend some time figuring out how they do it instead of whining on the forums, you might profit from that
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2009.01.09 01:51:00 - [57] Edited by: Tiirae on 09/01/2009 01:53:48 What a funny thread, at least 80% of the responses have no idea what the OP is talking about. However, he did put his point across rather ham-handedly. So, to clarify: The op is only asking why a solo player who has skills to give fleet bonuses doesn't get the bonuses when he's by himself. Similarly, why can't you put repping drones on yourself? He is NOT suggesting that solo players should be able to pwn groups. He is NOT suggesting that groups are bad. The main argument he is using is that groups are already more powerful than solo players because there's more of them. Giving them even more bonuses that aren't available to single players is hurting the solo player unnecessarily. Personally I agree. If I'm flying a command ship with 3 ganglinks installed, why wouldn't they work when I'm alone? And why the hell can't you set rep drones on yourself? Makes no sense at all. The fact is that a group gets bonuses to give them superiority over other groups without the bonuses. i.e the advantage goes to the group who have taken the time to train certain skills. A group is going to pwn a solo player no matter what. But If two solo players go head to head, the one who has taken the time to train leadership skills should have an advantage. And carrying your own rep drones should be a viable tanking method for a solo player. This is not whining, this is just about giving more options. And more reasons to train certain skills and use certain modules. To the OP, next time you post, don't just start typing into the box some long-assed story. Get in your head what your main point is, and make that your first sentence. And make it as short as possible. State it again in the second sentence, but in a different way. Then you can waffle about your reasoning. But if you haven't got your main point across in a very specific way in the first few words, you end up with a fiasco like this...
Infinity Ziona Extortive	Posted - 2009.01.09 02:41:00 - [58] Originally by: Tiirae Edited by: Tiirae on 09/01/2009 01:53:48 What a funny thread, at least 80% of the responses have no idea what the OP is talking about. However, he did put his point across rather ham-handedly. So, to clarify: The op is only asking why a solo player who has skills to give fleet bonuses doesn't get the bonuses when he's by himself. Similarly, why can't you put repping drones on yourself? He is NOT suggesting that solo players should be able to pwn groups. He is NOT suggesting that groups are bad. The main argument he is using is that groups are already more powerful than solo players because there's more of them. Giving them even more bonuses that aren't available to single players is hurting the solo player unnecessarily. Personally I agree. If I'm flying a command ship with 3 ganglinks installed, why wouldn't they work when I'm alone? And why the hell can't you set rep drones on yourself? Makes no sense at all. The fact is that a group gets bonuses to give them superiority over other groups without the bonuses. i.e the advantage goes to the group who have taken the time to train certain skills. A group is going to pwn a solo player no matter what. But If two solo players go head to head, the one who has taken the time to train leadership skills should have an advantage. And carrying your own rep drones should be a viable tanking method for a solo player. This is not whining, this is just about giving more options. And more reasons to train certain skills and use certain modules. To the OP, next time you post, don't just start typing into the box some long-assed story. Get in your head what your main point is, and make that your first sentence. And make it as short as possible. State it again in the second sentence, but in a different way. Then you can waffle about your reasoning. But if you haven't got your main point across in a very specific way in the first few words, you end up with a fiasco like this... Spot on. To some of the Previous Posters: P.S I have a fully capable covert ops gang bonused alt so Im not whining because I trained the skills and cant use em. I just think its stupid n would like to know why they did it like they did.

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