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Shadow Vincentius
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Posted - 2009.01.08 17:19:00 -
[1]
First of all, I would like to say that yes, the layout below was based on a previous post by Xabier, as his construction post layout gave good detail and left little uncovered, so thank you Xabier for your beautiful layout skills =D Some of the wording is similar as well, I just popped in my own facts and figures.
For the priviledge of using his layout, I would recommend that those of you that are looking for a larger investment look at Xabier's production programme (http://eve-search.com/thread/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=843805), as mine is slightly smaller. But this is perfect for lower ISK or less risk taking players as one bond is only 20mil (explained lower down the page), but still with a 10% monthly come back.
Lastly, can I note that all of this business is based in high sec. I recently found a post stating that some one tried to set up a low sec production business. Bad idea.
I do all of my trading, business, copying and manufacturing in high sec. The only dangerous travel I do is in to my 0.0 alliance space, which none of the assets for this project will ever travel.
Vincentius' Capital Production
Shadow Vincentius (and alts) is currently manufacturing all Carriers, Dreadnaughts, Freighters (unfortunately not jump at this time) and Orcas. I am currently producing 8 regular capitals every 10 days and 1 Freighter per week, plus Orcas at around 1 per 2 week currently. These are built via minerals both mined by myself/alts and also off of the market and then constructed from 8 owned BPOs and the rest BPC runs from market. I have 2 of my own POSes and access to 4 more that are used for research (all high sec).
History and Business
Previously I ran a research/moon mining POS in 0.0 successfully making a few hundred million per month from the region's market. With the profits I invested in basic construction of Cruisers, BC's and BS's and as of the release of the Orca, was producing those for a nice business. From the ISK made, I have gone in to capital construction for the last 6 months, which so far has made me a profit of just over 10b.
Resources
I source all of my minerals from 4 god-skilled mining alts and a few close contacts which I will not disclose here on request. This gives me an easily steady and dependable income of materials whilst not making me too dependent on an individual source. As I have started to do sales through this character (Shadow had higher skills in Trade anyway, so I'm training her up to fully spec'd), production is done with 2 other characters, one which is also of the 3 that are mining the minerals, and all are also able to build from the components and construct the ships.
Business Plan
This project will run for 6 months. What I plan to do is similar to Xabier, with the exception that I am trying to increase the size of the business by about 30% (slowly softly catchy monkey), as well as preparations for supplying some of the larger 0.0 alliances with ships (again, not disclosing which corps for obvious reasons, and this will be done AFTER the investment period, so there is no risk).
Assets
8bn in Capital Component BPOs
2bn set aside for purchase of un-minable Minerals
2bn Ship BPOs (and some more aside for purchase if needed)
2 of my own POSes, access to 4 more, and various reliable NPC stations for production and research (all high sec).
Disclosure of Risks
1. War Declarations will be dealt with by Mercs, which I will fund from my own wallet. I already have reliable and close contacts ready for this if needed, and some of my alts are around various noob corps so this shouldn't hinder production.
2. Problems with my computer/connection - I have never, ever had a problem, and if I do I have a laptop which runs eve nicely as well and can access on my lunch break at work.
Exit Strategy
Should the business fail to work, or start losing money, I have enough ISK from my own sources to fund back the investments at 100%. At any time you may ask for your investment back, with under 2 weeks notice this will be paid back at 90%, with over 2 weeks at 100%, with bond interest, and the bonds will go back up for sale (2 weeks being the payout period, hence the notice time required). In any unforeseen circumstances, all money will be paid back at 100% even without request.
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Shadow Vincentius
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Posted - 2009.01.08 17:20:00 -
[2]
Bond Structure
Total Number of Blocks
5
Bonds in a Block
50 (1bil)
Price Per Bond
20,000,000 (20mil)
Payout
Fortnightly (2 weeks)
Projected Return per Bond Payment(%)
5%
Overall Monthly Return(%)
10%
At end of 6 months, the entire principle plus any remaining interest will be returned to the investor. This will be 5x2x6 payout making a profit of 60% for investors over the 6month period.
Purchase of bonds will only be approved if the entire block has been filled, each block represents a portion of the capital to produce the ships thus unless a block is filled I can not accept the purchases.
Chapter 9 - FAQ
Q: How do I know this isn't a scam?
A: Risk / Reward, right now I'm heavily invested in production and I have reputation to protect and build upon within the trade channels and eve community.
Q: How do you know you'll be successful?
A: Simply because there is no risk. I spend a lot of time online (more than a healthy amount), all of this will happen in high sec with complete avoidance of low sec travel and I don't rely on any one source (including the fact that I have 4 accounts running at the same time).
Q: Why are you doing this?
A: Primarily because expanding in the production business has become my primary goal in eve. My name is out there, but I won't be happy until I'm the first person every pilot in eve thinks of for capital construction.
Q: What's your background?
A: Five Years of EVE playing with a degree in Animation and Games Design as well as Business Studies, and a history of supplying 0.0 alliances with manufacture of assets and ships working from just POSes, so compared, this is a walk in the park.
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Shadow Vincentius
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Posted - 2009.01.08 17:21:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Shadow Vincentius on 08/01/2009 17:34:51
Bonds are payable to Shadow Vincentius.
Please post on here how many you would like and any requests as my eve online inbox gets a bit cluttered.
So far reserved;
Cyran Firestorm - 10 bonds
Anonymous corp - 5 bonds |
SiJira
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Posted - 2009.01.08 17:35:00 -
[4]
dont know anything about your reputation |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.01.08 17:37:00 -
[5]
If you've made 10b profit, why do you need 5b public funding to expand?
...one would think you could just dip into personal assets to do so, especially since you also later on state that you'll back using personal assets any investment. |
Shadow Vincentius
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Posted - 2009.01.08 17:38:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
If you've made 10b profit, why do you need 5b public funding to expand?
...one would think you could just dip into personal assets to do so, especially since you also later on state that you'll back using personal assets any investment.
Personal assets are just that; assets. They are tied up in production and POSes atm, if the company goes bust I will liquidate them, but for now they are needed. |
SiJira
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Posted - 2009.01.08 17:41:00 -
[7]
what if a war happens
how can you produce carriers in hisec
you said it is all hisec so what if a war happens and they bring a lot of battleships
why do you need 5 billion when you already have so much more in assets?
if you need it because you failed to plan ahead then why should we have any optimism about your abilities
who are you?
will there be an audit
will there be any other security
will the people that reserved post?
if you planned to need 5 billion with so many significant assets why did we not hear of this before? |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.01.08 17:41:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Shadow Vincentius
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
If you've made 10b profit, why do you need 5b public funding to expand?
...one would think you could just dip into personal assets to do so, especially since you also later on state that you'll back using personal assets any investment.
Personal assets are just that; assets. They are tied up in production and POSes atm, if the company goes bust I will liquidate them, but for now they are needed.
I guess what Im getting at, is that the return rate of profit you are seeing on your current capital line should allow you to expand without public funding 2 months from now.
What type of expansion are we talking about as well, are you planning on reducing overhead by acquiring full BPO sets, sourcing another mineral contract, etc..?
What is your typical margin on your capital line, rough guess will do. |
Shadow Vincentius
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Posted - 2009.01.08 17:51:00 -
[9]
Originally by: SiJira
what if a war happens
how can you produce carriers in hisec
This was covered above.
Quote:
why do you need 5 billion when you already have so much more in assets?
If i liquidate all my assets to get the ISK back, I have no business.
Quote:
if you need it because you failed to plan ahead then why should we have any optimism about your abilities
I have had no problems in the 6 months I have been doing this. If you mistrust me, don't buy. Unfortuneatly a reputation needs to build on trust.
Quote:
who are you?
same answer as above
Quote:
will there be an audit
Not originally planned, but on request I would be happy to make one up for you.
Quote:
will there be any other security
I have multiple alts and contacts who go back a long way in merc corps that are aware of the plans and are happy to jump if needed. The POSes are the only thing at risk in high sec, and no expensive assets will be kept here.
Quote:
will the people that reserved post?
Hopefully
Quote:
if you planned to need 5 billion with so many significant assets why did we not hear of this before?
Not really a way to answer this.
<br/><br/> |
nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.08 17:51:00 -
[10]
I didn't even know you could build capitals in high sec. lol
Also, is this Citadel Heavy Industries Tech II?
--------------------
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Shadow Vincentius
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Posted - 2009.01.08 17:56:00 -
[11]
Quote:
I guess what Im getting at, is that the return rate of profit you are seeing on your current capital line should allow you to expand without public funding 2 months from now.
This is true, I won't deny that. Unfortuneatly unlike RL eve time goes a lot faster. The universe is only a fair few years old. Time is money, and I don't wish to wait arduas months making enough money to expand, plus I guess it helps people out.
Quote:
What type of expansion are we talking about as well, are you planning on reducing overhead by acquiring full BPO sets, sourcing another mineral contract, etc..?
At the moment, some of the parts require me to purchase BPCs. I want BPOs. I also wish to start up a full corp in 6 or so months time to deliver to 0.0 alliance space, of which some business I already have contacts for. This will take manpower and ships = ISK.
Quote:
What is your typical margin on your capital line, rough guess will do.
Can you elaborate?
<br/><br/> |
SiJira
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Posted - 2009.01.08 18:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Shadow Vincentius
Originally by: SiJira
what if a war happens
how can you produce carriers in hisec
This was covered above.
whats the most you will spend on mercs
whats the most you will get from friends as ious
how can you produce carriers in hisec- or dreadnoughts
Quote:
Quote:
why do you need 5 billion when you already have so much more in assets?
If i liquidate all my assets to get the ISK back, I have no business.
Quote:
if you need it because you failed to plan ahead then why should we have any optimism about your abilities
I have had no problems in the 6 months I have been doing this. If you mistrust me, don't buy. Unfortuneatly a reputation needs to build on trust.
you are not answering the question with anything significant so answer it and - show some proof of this 6 months history
a reputation doesnt get built on 5 billion
Quote:
Quote:
who are you?
same answer as above
it is not good enough
Quote:
Quote:
will there be an audit
Not originally planned, but on request I would be happy to make one up for you.
it has to be a by a trusted person and not made up
Quote:
Quote:
will there be any other security
I have multiple alts and contacts who go back a long way in merc corps that are aware of the plans and are happy to jump if needed. The POSes are the only thing at risk in high sec, and no expensive assets will be kept here.
without seeing the alts this can not be confirmed and so you might as well be talking nonsense
are your merc friends ready to fight for free for you? if not then how much do you have in your fund to pay them
pos are not very cheap and if they are destroyed you will lose much more
Quote:
Quote:
will the people that reserved post?
Hopefully
will you ask them to?
Quote:
Quote:
if you planned to need 5 billion with so many significant assets why did we not hear of this before?
Not really a way to answer this.
why did you not post ahead of time and take reservations?
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SiJira
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Posted - 2009.01.08 18:05:00 -
[13]
still need a better outline on how you will spend the isk |
Pink Kiwi
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Posted - 2009.01.08 18:09:00 -
[14]
If you get most of your minerals from mining yourself and are currently manufacturing 8 carriers every 10 days, that would be about 13b in minerals a month. How did you only manage 10b over 6 months? What am I missing here?
I still don't understand how this is a completely high sec operation. Carrier and Dread production requires low sec.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.08 18:26:00 -
[15]
Questions in no particular order
1. If this is in high sec, what will you be doing related to cap production?
Clearly it can only be Capital modules and/or Orcas?
2. You have so much in assets, and to build that many ships you must have a large ISK pile (>10B) to finance the minerals required to build all those ships.
Why do you need such a small injection of capital?
3.You have about 14B at least in assets. You have made 10B in profits, you should have room for expansion. If you are saying that you started with 4B and made 10B in 6 months, I don't believe for cap building.
It doesn't make sense.
4. You willing to have an audit to prove you own all those assets, and purchase the minerals required for production?
5. Why should we trust this launch (copied Xabier), where as Xabier was on his third successful bond?
6. Have you thought about a loan. Using collateral you could get 5B at 6-8% per month saving financing costs.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.08 18:36:00 -
[16]
I have been looking at your posting history, and it looks like the only thing you have done in this game is sell GTC's on the timcode bazaar forum.
For someone who runs a large cap production business you must have sold some stuff via the WTS forum.
For someone who has made 10B in profits in the last 6 months, why would you need to sell GTC's in September and November.
So, I am calling this a total SCAM.
So proof or STFU. |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.01.08 19:41:00 -
[17]
Originally by: cosmoray
3.You have about 14B at least in assets. You have made 10B in profits, you should have room for expansion. If you are saying that you started with 4B and made 10B in 6 months, I don't believe for cap building.
It doesn't make sense.
I'm just gonna have to drill this one home even further since the numbers just don't make sense in my head now that Im looking at it more...unless there is some loss in translation.
From your assets declaration.
8bn in Capital Component BPOs
2bn set aside for purchase of un-minable Minerals
2bn Ship BPOs (and some more aside for purchase if needed)
2 of my own POSes, access to 4 more, and various reliable NPC stations for production and research (all high sec).
So you are building parts and then purchasing the final capital product BPCs?
Where is your working capital for minerals. If you are moving that many capitals you should have a working wallet of around 13b to 20b depending on your build cycles, so even assuming you can mine a quarter of that you should still have around 10b on hand. More than enough to fund some BPO purchases, which would obviously reduce your total output temporarily, but would be more than justified given the reduction in overhead from not having to purchase a BPC.
How are you sourcing your minerals for low sec build requirements or are you moving the required parts into station for assembly?
Which prints are you wishing to expand on? If you cannot find the funding you need, have you thought about going for a secured offering. Getting public funding to purchase the prints which will be locked down in a holder corporation that you can have your alt in to build off of?
I'm really am trying to work out in my head what you have going on and nothing is making sense unless you can cough up some more details. |
nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.08 19:49:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Which prints are you wishing to expand on? If you cannot find the funding you need, have you thought about going for a secured offering. Getting public funding to purchase the prints which will be locked down in a holder corporation that you can have your alt in to build off of?
IMO, this is the only way this project would be feasible: public ISK to buy BPOs, which are locked down by an MD trusted big name. No way to scam. |
Xabier
Amarr
THE SORORITY
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Posted - 2009.01.08 22:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Shadow Vincentius
Vincentius' Capital Production
Shadow Vincentius (and alts) is currently manufacturing all Carriers, Dreadnaughts, Freighters (unfortunately not jump at this time) and Orcas. I am currently producing 8 regular capitals every 10 days and 1 Freighter per week, plus Orcas at around 1 per 2 week currently. These are built via minerals both mined by myself/alts and also off of the market and then constructed from 8 owned BPOs and the rest BPC runs from market. I have 2 of my own POSes and access to 4 more that are used for research (all high sec).
Assets
8bn in Capital Component BPOs
2bn set aside for purchase of un-minable Minerals
2bn Ship BPOs (and some more aside for purchase if needed)
2 of my own POSes, access to 4 more, and various reliable NPC stations for production and research (all high sec).
Your information doesn't really add up, however I would be happy to audit this offering and clarify the situation for any investors as a gesture of goodwill.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.01.08 22:46:00 -
[20]
Originally by: cosmoray
I have been looking at your posting history, and it looks like the only thing you have done in this game is sell GTC's on the timcode bazaar forum.
For someone who runs a large cap production business you must have sold some stuff via the WTS forum.
For someone who has made 10B in profits in the last 6 months, why would you need to sell GTC's in September and November.
So, I am calling this a total SCAM.
So proof or STFU.
This is a little unfair; he might well be using a different alt for sales. If he's been reinvesting his profits into his business, he might well have wanted a bit of extra capital to work with, without the hassle of issuing a bond.
I'm reserving all further comment until an audit has been done. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.09 04:02:00 -
[21]
Yeah, I am being harsh.
But, the OP's figures don't add up. No way can you make 10+ capitals a week with a pool of 2B ISK in minerals.
I make T1 ships and have 8B ISK in minerals and burn through 4B per week.
Also the fact it is an exact copy of Xabier bond is poor. After reading that no rep players can't ask for as much the OP only went for 5B. This is an amount that won't effect his operation at all.
So yes I am calling SCAM.
I am willing to bet that the OP doesn't have the assets he states. I have 100M ISK that he doesn't. If someone trusted runs the audit, then prove me wrong.
Any takers?
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Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.01.09 06:23:00 -
[22]
There are clearly issues here. It may be that there is a legitimate offering hidden in this somewhere, but so far I cannot see it. In any case, an unknown should not be asking for these sums of money without solid security and a good audit.
Originally by: nether void
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
If you cannot find the funding you need, have you thought about going for a secured offering. Getting public funding to purchase the prints which will be locked down in a holder corporation that you can have your alt in to build off of?
IMO, this is the only way this project would be feasible: public ISK to buy BPOs, which are locked down by an MD trusted big name. No way to scam.
I agree completely.
I would consider getting involved if I, or someone else I trust, can retain control of the assets purchased with investors isk. For this to happen you are going to have to redesign your offering. I suggest you do so openly through discussion in this thread.
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Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.09 06:49:00 -
[23]
Audit should show that:
a) Assets exist in full
b) Market/Contract history on sales char shows a healthy amount of sales over the past 6 months
c) Listing of all characters and alts connected to the OP
If any of the above isn't met then it's a very poor investment with almost zero chance of success. |
Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.01.09 11:43:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ricdic
Audit should show that:
a) Assets exist in full
b) Market/Contract history on sales char shows a healthy amount of sales over the past 6 months
c) Listing of all characters and alts connected to the OP
If any of the above isn't met then it's a very poor investment with almost zero chance of success.
This and a trusted party holding BPOs as security would be the minimum requirement for me to even consider this as an investment oppertunity. These are terms that any unknown must accept when asking for any sizable investment. Once you have a history of handling investment well you may be able to get better terms, but not yet. |
Sensei Wuz
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Posted - 2009.01.09 14:55:00 -
[25]
I reserve 20 bonds, that is 400mil if my calculations are correct? .done a few background checks and things seem to work for me.
Im on pretty much all the time. Contact me whenever
*do not make a choice cos i did, if it is a scam i dont want blame, lol*
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Kitchie
Gallente
Kitchie's Logistics and Marketing Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.09 15:41:00 -
[26]
almost 22 hours since OP's last post.....
If you're not willing to work hard to raise the money, what chance of working hard enough to pay it back with interest?
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Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.01.09 16:00:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kitchie
almost 22 hours since OP's last post.....
If you're not willing to work hard to raise the money, what chance of working hard enough to pay it back with interest?
Criticise them for the fact their numbers don't add up, criticise them for the lack of audit, security or reputation, criticise them because the business plan is a rehashed clone of someone elses, criticise them for the poor answers made to straightforward questions...
But criticising them for not being a forum wh*re? I think that might be a bit much... 
...at least wait until it has been 24 hours since their last post! Then you can open a whole new can of flameage.
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Sensei Wuz
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Posted - 2009.01.09 16:08:00 -
[28]
Apparantly there was a virus breakout on his/her PC.
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Kitchie
Gallente
Kitchie's Logistics and Marketing Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.09 16:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Kitchie
almost 22 hours since OP's last post.....
If you're not willing to work hard to raise the money, what chance of working hard enough to pay it back with interest?
Criticise them for the fact their numbers don't add up, criticise them for the lack of audit, security or reputation, criticise them because the business plan is a rehashed clone of someone elses, criticise them for the poor answers made to straightforward questions...
But criticising them for not being a forum wh*re? I think that might be a bit much...
...at least wait until it has been 24 hours since their last post! Then you can open a whole new can of flameage.
Fair enough, my comment has no merit in it's own right. It was just that having read through the entire thread and interested in seeing how the many valid concerns would be answered, there was nothing, and I was disappointed 
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.09 16:25:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Sensei Wuz
Apparantly there was a virus breakout on his/her PC.
So your an ALT, and have exactly 2 posts in your entire career. the 2 in this thread.
The OP has a computer virus and can't log on?
How did you do your background check? Do share.
If you know person in RL, are we really gonna take your word? |
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