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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.01.10 20:50:00 -
[31]
What is the point in flying a cloaked ship if people can see you on scanner and probe you down easily?
If a cov ops is easily probed, that means I have to warp off every 30s or 60s. Keeping normal intel on the enemy becomes much more difficult.
The whole probing/bubbling and reprobing sounds like a real tedious process that will acheive no "action"
Why don't you just nerf AFKers instead? Idle for 30 mins = kick from server? I know there are ways to get around this, but not everyone is willing/smart enough to make a third party program.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.10 21:51:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Venkul Mul
1) scan the cloaker with the cov ops
2) warp to the cloaker with the cop ops squad
3) deploy probe and scan while the hic active the bubble, unless the cloaker is extremely fast or the scanner ship war very far away the cloaker is well within the range of the hic bubble, on the other hand the ship with a speed bonus cloaked can't warp cloaked;
4) when the scanning ship get the current cloaker position the whole squad can chase it
Scan takes 20 seconds + 10km.
Warp takes 20-40 seconds + 10/20km...
You can still just change direction after they get the second result
Yea, you're going to kill a ratter. You should kill a ratter.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.11 09:46:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Venkul Mul
1) scan the cloaker with the cov ops
2) warp to the cloaker with the cop ops squad
3) deploy probe and scan while the hic active the bubble, unless the cloaker is extremely fast or the scanner ship war very far away the cloaker is well within the range of the hic bubble, on the other hand the ship with a speed bonus cloaked can't warp cloaked;
4) when the scanning ship get the current cloaker position the whole squad can chase it
Scan takes 20 seconds + 10km.
Warp takes 20-40 seconds + 10/20km...
You can still just change direction after they get the second result
Yea, you're going to kill a ratter. You should kill a ratter.
You kill any ship that can't reach very high speed or warp under cloak.
So essentially you kill any ship under cloak with the exception of Cov Ops, Force Recon, Blockade runners (as they can warp under cloak) Stealth Bombers and Black Ops (as they have a speed bonus under cloak).
All the other ships will be still perfectly in range of your HIC.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.11 12:26:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
You kill any ship that can't reach very high speed or warp under cloak.
So essentially you kill any ship under cloak with the exception of Cov Ops, Force Recon, Blockade runners (as they can warp under cloak) Stealth Bombers and Black Ops (as they have a speed bonus under cloak).
All the other ships will be still perfectly in range of your HIC.
And that is a bad thing?
The above listed ships are the only ones who should be able to avoid getting killed by a superior force scanning them down in a safe spot.
Remember, you would still have to get the scan in the first place. Not that easy when directional scanners do not work.
That means that cloaks become strategic modules and not "you can't attack me modules".
Its a good thing
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Mos7Wan7ed
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Posted - 2009.01.14 22:37:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed on 14/01/2009 22:39:05
Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed on 14/01/2009 22:37:28
Originally by: Vaal Erit
What is the point in flying a cloaked ship if people can see you on scanner and probe you down easily?
If a cov ops is easily probed, that means I have to warp off every 30s or 60s. Keeping normal intel on the enemy becomes much more difficult.
The whole probing/bubbling and reprobing sounds like a real tedious process that will acheive no "action"
Why don't you just nerf AFKers instead? Idle for 30 mins = kick from server? I know there are ways to get around this, but not everyone is willing/smart enough to make a third party program.
works very well against afk cloakers.. it only simi-works if you bother to take the time with small fleet of recons if the person is active. but then again if you know your being hunted and don't think you can avoid the gang hunting you then you can always either log or leave system.
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Mos7Wan7ed
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Posted - 2009.01.14 22:55:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed on 14/01/2009 22:55:39
i think the only whiners to this idea are those that make living off if ratting in ravens in hostile space or those that grief/market *****/make isk off intel and do so scott free atm. they don't like the idea of cloaking having counters and it scares them.  |
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.01.14 23:02:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Mos7Wan7ed
Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed on 14/01/2009 22:55:39
i think the only whiners to this idea are those that make living off if ratting in ravens in hostile space or those that grief/market *****/make isk off intel and do so scott free atm. they don't like the idea of cloaking having counters and it scares them.
Wrong. I am opposed to this proposal and I have never flown a Raven and never engaged in intel selling.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Mos7Wan7ed
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Posted - 2009.01.14 23:19:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Originally by: Mos7Wan7ed
Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed on 14/01/2009 22:55:39
i think the only whiners to this idea are those that make living off if ratting in ravens in hostile space or those that grief/market *****/make isk off intel and do so scott free atm. they don't like the idea of cloaking having counters and it scares them.
Wrong. I am opposed to this proposal and I have never flown a Raven and never engaged in intel selling.
left off market whoring |
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.01.14 23:22:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Mos7Wan7ed
left off market whoring
Wrong again. I don't think I've trained beyond Trade 3.
And I still don't support this proposal.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Grigo
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.01.15 09:07:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Grigo on 15/01/2009 09:07:13
/suported
whit the upcoming local removal(oh yeah it will happen) u have no way to actualy see if a cloker is in sitem or not...that will make clokers way to uber...
oh and yeah i do prefer recons over many ships already :) |
Karii Ildarian
Caldari
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.01.15 12:14:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Remove local and the problem is solved.
Agreed. Then everyone could stress out equally; or not stress out equally - whichever they prefer.
Except people who were cloaked of course... Their stress level would be more or less unchanged.
Removing local is a monumentally stupid idea
Why, exactly?
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2009.01.15 14:20:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Mister Xerox on 15/01/2009 14:22:20
Many proposals have been put forward concerning 'AFK cloakers' over the years... and years... and years that they've been in the game.
IMO:
Non-cov ops: Reduces sig radius of the ship by 80-90%, but it's still 'visible' in space if the pilot pans their camera around. Consider that at 50km even a BS is darn, DARN difficult to spot by the viewing field alone.
Cov ops: Should be decloakable by a device (sov system anchored structure), but the module does not deactivate. This will require an 'active' pilot at the helm to refresh their cloaking module. Other than becoming 'visible' no other change occurs (to limit macros from re-initiating the cloak).
While any cloak is active all capacitor and shield regeneration shuts down, and the directional scanner ceases to function.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.15 14:37:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Karii Ildarian
Why, exactly?
Because it increases the costs of all actions via a risk increase. It magnifies the power of cloaking devices as it increases the information difference that is created through their use.
The risk increase specifically is bad because it encourages less risky behavior. This manifests in three ways.
1. Using cloaking alts to monitor in gates
2. Simply being in space less
3. Blobbing.
Neither of these are good for a pvp game since that aspect of the game relies on people being in space and not always being in a super-blob.
On the surface it might seem that players will have an easier time finding fights since they are more likely to land next to each other. But that is if you assume that people will not change their behavior when risk is increased. And they will. In reality it means that whenever you're hunting you have to be constantly using the scan button since you have no way of knowing if a superior force is around OR if targets are around. As well you have to be entirely wary of cloaked gate camps.(cloaks will turn a single inty on a gate into a possible 100 BS **** with no way of you to know until they decloak and their dictor decloak fry you). And to top it all off, there will be less ratters and producers scattered in the areas where you can hunt.
Information is a key component of any PvP game. And Eve does a pretty decent job of balancing between no information(lots of risk) and perfect information(no risk). No information is bad because the risk stops people from doing things. Perfect information is bad because you will always know whether or not they're going to win and how much it will cost them. And as such, no fights happen because no one is willing to fight. Eve has neither of these situations, but if you remove local, you're pushing Eve towards the first, and it would have disastrous consequences for the game
TL;DR : everyone loses. |
LUC1FER
Caldari
Rulers Of Mankind
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Posted - 2009.01.16 06:20:00 -
[44]
You have a system haunted by a cloakie pilot? Do all your carebearing in Empire untill you can afford a Titan.. Then just DD the system... VIOLA! NO more cloaker!
Get over it. |
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