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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1520
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 16:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
Could someone shed some light on the proposed mechanics for Micro Jump Drives?
My understanding is that it will allow "micro" jumps of 100km, although I could be very wrong on that.
Specifically I am concerned about their effect on long range (sniper) combat, which is already nearly impossible in game due to current probing mechanics. Will it make it even easier to jump on top of a sniper fleet?
I am fully in favor of new dimensions being added to combat, however the option to have a viable long range fleet needs to remain... so I'm a bit concerned. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
ElQuirko
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
564
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 16:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Could someone shed some light on the proposed mechanics for Micro Jump Drives?
My understanding is that it will allow "micro" jumps of 100km, although I could be very wrong on that.
Specifically I am concerned about their effect on long range (sniper) combat, which is already nearly impossible in game due to current probing mechanics. Will it make it even easier to jump on top of a sniper fleet?
I am fully in favor of new dimensions being added to combat, however the option to have a viable long range fleet needs to remain... so I'm a bit concerned.
It also means that long-range sniper fleets can jump 100km away from the jump point the second they see them aligning.
If we distribute pictures of people, does that mean God can file copyright claims under SOPA? |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
233
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 16:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Considering they already are nerfing hellcats I would not expect them to help snipers. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
126
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Posted - 2012.04.16 16:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Oh great.. blinky-blinky combats in our future. You'll have people teleporting all over the warzone chasing one another. Turn WiS into wIN! ..make all the characters Nude. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1520
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Posted - 2012.04.16 16:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Could someone shed some light on the proposed mechanics for Micro Jump Drives?
My understanding is that it will allow "micro" jumps of 100km, although I could be very wrong on that.
Specifically I am concerned about their effect on long range (sniper) combat, which is already nearly impossible in game due to current probing mechanics. Will it make it even easier to jump on top of a sniper fleet?
I am fully in favor of new dimensions being added to combat, however the option to have a viable long range fleet needs to remain... so I'm a bit concerned. It also means that long-range sniper fleets can jump 100km away from the jump point the second they see them aligning.
That was the first thing that came to mind for me as well, however wouldn't that just become a game of constant jumping? The long range fleet would barely have time to target and get off a single volley (maybe not even that) before they would be forced to jump again... unless there is a spool up or cool down time as well.
Otherwise that still seems to put combat completely in favor of the short range fleet trying to pin them down, and doesn't seem very balanced or viable.
Still, I know what you are saying... and there may simply be no details available yet to clarify the situation. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1520
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 16:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:Oh great.. blinky-blinky combats in our future. You'll have people teleporting all over the warzone chasing one another.
Heh, yes. I had visions of a "Bleach" style of combat evolving.... with Star Ships using "Flash Step" constantly to get into position behind their opponent. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
killorbekilled TBE
Dare Bears
45
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Posted - 2012.04.16 16:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
there will be a cool down period on the micro jump drive of course
everything thing in eve has a draw back huh? |
ElQuirko
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
565
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Posted - 2012.04.16 16:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Heh, yes. I had visions of a "Bleach" style of combat evolving.... with Star Ships using "Flash Step" constantly to get into position behind their opponent. Edit: Needless to say, I'm not a big fan of starship combat working like that in EVE. I'm hoping there is more to it than that.
This is a better method of combat than the "BLOBBED, MO'FO" that we have now. Positioning should be implemented further - turning guns around to shoot behind should require an entire align of the ship, which should take much longer when in combat.
If we distribute pictures of people, does that mean God can file copyright claims under SOPA? |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
673
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 16:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Heh, yes. I had visions of a "Bleach" style of combat evolving.... with Star Ships using "Flash Step" constantly to get into position behind their opponent. Edit: Needless to say, I'm not a big fan of starship combat working like that in EVE. I'm hoping there is more to it than that. This is a better method of combat than the "BLOBBED, MO'FO" that we have now. Positioning should be implemented further - turning guns around to shoot behind should require an entire align of the ship, which should take much longer when in combat. what you realy mean: implement a proper tracking formula. The current tracking formula does not take ship orientation into account which is the root of the problem. For example: a ship orbiting a static object has still to track as much as the static object would have to... which is wrong. Thats why close range ships need such an insane tracking bonus. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
126
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Posted - 2012.04.16 16:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:ElQuirko wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Heh, yes. I had visions of a "Bleach" style of combat evolving.... with Star Ships using "Flash Step" constantly to get into position behind their opponent. Edit: Needless to say, I'm not a big fan of starship combat working like that in EVE. I'm hoping there is more to it than that. This is a better method of combat than the "BLOBBED, MO'FO" that we have now. Positioning should be implemented further - turning guns around to shoot behind should require an entire align of the ship, which should take much longer when in combat. what you realy mean: implement a proper tracking formula. The current tracking formula does not take ship orientation into account which is the root of the problem. For example: a ship orbiting a static object has still to track as much as the static object would have to... which is wrong. Thats why close range ships need such an insane tracking bonus.
Something I've always found odd too. It's a given that a ship being orbited at close range would have difficulty keeping up with its attacker, but that is not the same for the attacker as its position and orientation relative to the target remains the same for the most part. One of the flaws in EVE physics. Turn WiS into wIN! ..make all the characters Nude. |
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
673
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 17:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
exactly a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3796
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 17:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
There are deployable bubbles that prevents mjds.
And you're right to belvie they're going to favor short ranged ships since naval variants of the modules include gallente and minmatar.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6110
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 17:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Considering they already are nerfing hellcats I would not expect them to help snipers. How are they doing that, exactly? I keep hearing it, but I never see anyone demonstrating it.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
102
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 17:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Stealth Gallente buff... Eve is real, will be real. |
KnowUsByTheDead
The Flying Nightmares
41
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 17:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
If I am not mistaken, wasn't it said that MJD would have a "cooldown" period, and that the module wouldn't even be able to be used in the event of a targeting lock? I could be thinking of something else that was brought up during FF, but I am pretty sure they said those things about the MJD's. |
Abraxas666
Shockwave Innovations Stellar Economy Experts
1
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Posted - 2012.04.16 17:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
When I was first told about the module by a friend familiar with null-sec combat he said that he thinks CCP is trying to make battleship fleets more viable as a result of the popularity of long-ranged nano drake/cane fleets. I don't have a lot of large fleet engagement experience but this seems like a plausible outcome.
But yes the module will of course have some mechanic limiting it's frequent use, you're not going to be able to spam it. I think it's supposed to have a wind-up rather than a cool-down (you jump at the end of the module's cycle, not at the beginning), with a draw-back happening while it's winding up but I could be completely wrong. |
Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
308
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 17:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tippia wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Considering they already are nerfing hellcats I would not expect them to help snipers. How are they doing that, exactly? I keep hearing it, but I never see anyone demonstrating it.
You keep hearing it from masternerdguy.
Mineral prices doubled, therefore nobody will fly hellcats.
Somebody forgot to give us null guys the memo however because we're still flyin' em. Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
199
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 17:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
I'd like those new jump drives better if it wasn't an arbitrary 100km you jump. Just make it spool up and the longer you let it run, the farther it will warp you with a minimum and a maximum between say, 50 and 150km. It would take a lot more skill to use then 'everyone blinks 100km'. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
Joe Skellington
13th Tribe of Kobol Expeditionary
53
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 17:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Micro Jumpdrives? Please tell me this is a troll or a joke :( -á-á |\__/|-á -á/ @ @ \ -á-á -á( > -¦ < )-á -á`-+-+x-½-½-¦ -á-á / O \ |
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
553
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 17:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Keep in mind that there is also a mobile micro jump drive disruptor as well listed in the same build file as the micro jump drive.
Joe Skellington wrote:Micro Jumpdrives? Please tell me this is a troll or a joke :(
Not a joke. |
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masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
238
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 17:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Joe Skellington wrote:Micro Jumpdrives? Please tell me this is a troll or a joke :(
Nope. I believe they even have to be spun up/spooled up. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
553
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 17:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Joe Skellington wrote:Micro Jumpdrives? Please tell me this is a troll or a joke :( Nope. I believe they even have to be spun up/spooled up.
Yeah check what I posted.. It lists a ramp up time. |
Hayaishi
Aperture Harmonics K162
75
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 19:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
What I don't understand is why everyone is so against close range fleet battles.... It's how they should be after-all... |
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
66
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 19:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
because people are risk averse and want an i-win button.
the problem w/ sniper fleets is the only thing that counters them is another sniper fleet.
Or scanning them down and warping to them, but any FC with half a brain can see that coming a mile away and avoid it. |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
240
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 19:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hayaishi wrote:What I don't understand is why everyone is so against close range fleet battles.... It's how they should be after-all...
To be honest fighting at extreme close range in space is probably really unrealistic. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
116
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 19:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
Good info on the data there. Looks like 30 second cycle to jump, 2 minute cooldown. 942 cap, so easy to not have enough and battleship only. Can be handy I think, won't be too overpowered since it is a fixed warp range. Want to avoid the microjump, stay at 120km/70km for long range.
Edit: Says battleship class module, but if it doesn't work via mass/thrust like battleships, doesn't that mean it could also be used on capitals? That would be a nice usage. |
Subdolus Venator
State War Academy Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 19:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:Oh great.. blinky-blinky combats in our future. You'll have people teleporting all over the warzone chasing one another. Awesome, if true. That would reward actual practice and clear tactical thinking.
Human skill and reflexes > Button-mashing. EVE is EVE - Feaces will eventuate. |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 20:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
I just can't think of a single reason why I'd use this module. Are my enemies supposed to sit there while I charge up and get into range of them? I am supposed to know exactly when people will warp on top of me and charge my micro jump exactly 30s in advance to get away?
With a long cooldown and charge up time you are better off using good ol cloaky warp ins and warping out and then back in. Maybe CCP can provide a good example of the usage of this module in an upcoming dev blog? |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
131
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 20:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Subdolus Venator wrote:Mars Theran wrote:Oh great.. blinky-blinky combats in our future. You'll have people teleporting all over the warzone chasing one another. Awesome, if true. That would reward actual practice and clear tactical thinking. Human skill and reflexes > Button-mashing.
While I agree with you in theory, EVE is about button mashing. More simplified games can be played that way, but having to wait n seconds for locking time and cycle turrets kind of makes the whole idea improbable.
It being a Battleship class module and having a 2 minute cooldown is actually fair and appropriate I think, and might result in more Battleships being brought to fights given they will suddenly have an improved and more versatile role on the field. You might see a problem with Machariels becoming suddenly overpowered however and with Fleets in 0.0 which will suddenly be able to close range and avoid Drake missile spam by jumping past it. It will make things more interesting though. Turn WiS into wIN! ..make all the characters Nude. |
leviticus ander
CATO.nss
145
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 20:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vaal Erit wrote:I just can't think of a single reason why I'd use this module. Are my enemies supposed to sit there while I charge up and get into range of them? I am supposed to know exactly when people will warp on top of me and charge my micro jump exactly 30s in advance to get away?
With a long cooldown and charge up time you are better off using good ol cloaky warp ins and warping out and then back in. Maybe CCP can provide a good example of the usage of this module in an upcoming dev blog?
they were listing it as a GTFO button for ships and fleet comps that are fairly weak such as sniper fleets or indy ships. |
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