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Warp Disrupt Probe nerfed - Why??

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Ruoska	Posted - 2009.01.12 17:07:00 - [1] Edited by: Ruoska on 12/01/2009 18:37:43 I noticed that Warp Disrupt Probes are nefred, and I really would like to know why (especially in light of all the other favors already done to carebears). What I'm talking about is the lost ability to "suck" a warping ship beyond the gate (or other point/beacon), given the bubble is in-line, ofc. Are we going to get something in trade, such as automatic decloaking of all cloaked ships hitting the sphere? Ruoska EDIT: On further testing, while no attempt to make "suck" action to work were successful, it was also noted that numerous times ships just warp through the bubble, when it's between gates. (yes, I know about when it has to be launched and all that, I know what I am doing...)
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.01.12 20:35:00 - [2] This has to be some kind of bug. I'm usually rather critical of CCP but I doubt that'd stoop this low. Did you make sure to start warp at least a couple seconds after warp disrupt probe was launched?
Morgan La'Chance Caldari Dynamic Reallocation and Logistics	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:26:00 - [3] I thought only anchorable bubbles could on grid and in line could suck people into them, not interdictor spheres.
Ruoska	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:28:00 - [4] Originally by: Ephemeron Did you make sure to start warp at least a couple seconds after warp disrupt probe was launched? Yep, sure did. I also now submitted a bug report, due to the inconsistent "warp-through" phenomen. That giving me reason to suspect propable bug rather than stealth nerf.
Deva Blackfire coracao ardente	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:28:00 - [5] Originally by: Ruoska Edited by: Ruoska on 12/01/2009 18:37:43 I noticed that Warp Disrupt Probes are nefred, and I really would like to know why (especially in light of all the other favors already done to carebears). What I'm talking about is the lost ability to "suck" a warping ship beyond the gate (or other point/beacon), given the bubble is in-line, ofc. Are we going to get something in trade, such as automatic decloaking of all cloaked ships hitting the sphere? Ruoska EDIT: On further testing, while no attempt to make "suck" action to work were successful, it was also noted that numerous times ships just warp through the bubble, when it's between gates. (yes, I know about when it has to be launched and all that, I know what I am doing...) From what i remember edge of bubble must be 100km from "warpin" point for sukage to work. So if you put bubble 100km from gate it wont work (edge is 120 then). Try putting it 50km in front and 50km behind gate and check results.
Ruoska	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:29:00 - [6] Originally by: Morgan La'Chance I thought only anchorable bubbles could on grid and in line could suck people into them, not interdictor spheres. Current TQ does suck them. I do that dozens of time per day actually, and would be devastated to lose this functionality.
Ruoska	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:30:00 - [7] Edited by: Ruoska on 12/01/2009 21:31:21 Originally by: Deva Blackfire From what i remember edge of bubble must be 100km from "warpin" point for sukage to work. So if you put bubble 100km from gate it wont work (edge is 120 then). Try putting it 50km in front and 50km behind gate and check results. Currently in TQ, any distance within grid will work. Doing it all the time :) Only the precision of alignment becomes harder to manage when distances grow. SiSi test included having the buble mere 40km behind the gate, having the edge 20km behind the gate. No joy.
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:34:00 - [8] Probably only a bug. If not, worst decision ever to affect 0.0. Which is also why i think it's just a temporary thing..
Deva Blackfire coracao ardente	Posted - 2009.01.12 22:16:00 - [9] Originally by: Ruoska Edited by: Ruoska on 12/01/2009 21:31:21 Originally by: Deva Blackfire From what i remember edge of bubble must be 100km from "warpin" point for sukage to work. So if you put bubble 100km from gate it wont work (edge is 120 then). Try putting it 50km in front and 50km behind gate and check results. Currently in TQ, any distance within grid will work. Doing it all the time :) Only the precision of alignment becomes harder to manage when distances grow. SiSi test included having the buble mere 40km behind the gate, having the edge 20km behind the gate. No joy. Well i used to put bubbles 150-200km off gate and they worked. At some point on TQ it stopped working (people were warping thru) and i had to deploy em closer. but yeh - dictor bubbles mechanics change every patch... its goddamn annoying.
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn The Black Isle	Posted - 2009.01.13 00:54:00 - [10] ohyourgod, let that only be a bug. That would really be the last coffin nail for interdictors (outside fleet suicide duty).
fab24 Gallente Order of Anarchy	Posted - 2009.01.13 11:04:00 - [11] Originally by: Ruoska Are we going to get something in trade, such as automatic decloaking of all cloaked ships hitting the sphere? Ruoska lol...
Ruoska	Posted - 2009.01.13 14:45:00 - [12] First attempt at the bug report got debunked. While enhancing the report, I spend few hours on this and my conclusion is that this is now distance specific, much like Deva Blackfire already wrote here. With some km's more or less, it seems that currently in SiSi the bubble won't suck in unless it's under 100km from the gate. (I still get occasional warp-through, but I have still no way to reproduce that - annoyes the hell out of me) So, they do suck in after all, but at gimped <100km range. This is grevious nerf for my game play and I'm still distressed about it - not sure how much this will affect other dictor pilots... Waiting for the next bug report comeback.
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.13 15:13:00 - [13] Originally by: Ruoska So, they do suck in after all, but at gimped <100km range. This is grevious nerf for my game play and I'm still distressed about it - not sure how much this will affect other dictor pilots... Doesn't make it less horrible imho.
SecHaul	Posted - 2009.01.13 15:30:00 - [14] Originally by: Ruoska First attempt at the bug report got debunked. While enhancing the report, I spend few hours on this and my conclusion is that this is now distance specific, much like Deva Blackfire already wrote here. With some km's more or less, it seems that currently in SiSi the bubble won't suck in unless it's under 100km from the gate. (I still get occasional warp-through, but I have still no way to reproduce that - annoyes the hell out of me) So, they do suck in after all, but at gimped <100km range. This is grevious nerf for my game play and I'm still distressed about it - not sure how much this will affect other dictor pilots... Waiting for the next bug report comeback. From my experience with bubbles, this has always been the case, i.e. bubbles need to be a certain distance from the gate, and aligned, in order to suck people in. That distance always changes between patches, and is not consistent between systems, I assume it's linked to grid size or system size, which I wouldn't be surprised is a value that CCP tweaks during their 'performance' changes. I'd be interested to know the size of the grid you are testing, and if it's only you and one other in the system (in which case the grid is probably tiny).
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.01.13 17:40:00 - [15] warp disruptor bubble effect should be linked to grid. If he can see the gate, he is in the same grid as the gate. Grids are centered around gates and are definitely more than 100km radius there's probably something shady in the formula used to calculate warp exit point
Rudolf Miller Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.01.13 21:09:00 - [16] Originally by: Batolemaeus Probably only a bug. If not, worst decision ever to affect 0.0. Which is also why i think it's just a temporary thing.. besides i know for a fact that the suck action DOES work... try flying through tribute. theres a bubble on every other gate 60 k out :-P
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.13 21:27:00 - [17] Originally by: Rudolf Miller besides i know for a fact that the suck action DOES work... try flying through tribute. theres a bubble on every other gate 60 k out :-P Ssshhhh
Deva Blackfire coracao ardente	Posted - 2009.01.14 06:18:00 - [18] Originally by: Rudolf Miller Originally by: Batolemaeus Probably only a bug. If not, worst decision ever to affect 0.0. Which is also why i think it's just a temporary thing.. besides i know for a fact that the suck action DOES work... try flying through tribute. theres a bubble on every other gate 60 k out :-P bubble =/= warp disrupt probe. Unless they have dedicated dictors who spam probes 24/7 which i seriously doubt.
Kaar Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2009.01.14 16:58:00 - [19] Works at 100km fine, never really had a need to use them further than that. --- ---
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.01.15 05:17:00 - [20] mmm get a tackler now. CCP do nerf i win buttons so dont be surprised
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.01.15 06:22:00 - [21] have you tried to turn on your mwd in them? It was rumored that they may be making bubbles to shut them off as well not sure if they are toying with that coding now.
Ephemeron North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.15 17:30:00 - [22] Originally by: ollobrains2 mmm get a tackler now. CCP do nerf i win buttons so dont be surprised Interdictor is a tackler, dummy CCP should nerf your "I post" button
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2009.01.16 15:22:00 - [23] bubbles will work just fine if they are within maximum warp distance of the gate (on tq). It's pretty nice since it's steadily becoming only way to catch anything, assuming they'll use jump gates at all. (or enter 0.0 anyway)
Emotek	Posted - 2009.01.17 00:01:00 - [24] Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: ollobrains2 mmm get a tackler now. CCP do nerf i win buttons so dont be surprised Interdictor is a tackler, dummy CCP should nerf your "I post" button I have to disagree somewhat. Interdictors are not 'tacklers' per se unless you fit Warp Disrupt or Warp Scramble modules (mid slot) on them. Interdictors have a limited range of motion in that once the warp disrupt probe is placed it can not be moved. The Interdictor must place a new probe resulting in heavily limited 'tackling' abilities. I suppose that it is quite possible to place Stasis Webifiers on the Interdictor to allow for enhanced 'tackling' abilities but, in my opinion, it will never be a true 'tackler'. Heavy Interdictors with no Warp Disrupt or Warp Scramble modules (mid sllot) are, I would consider, true 'tacklers' but they suffer from friendly fire effects in non-CONCORD space (and, to a lesser degree, in CONCORD space).
Ephemeron North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.17 01:29:00 - [25] don't read too much into it. Interdictors are tacklers because they catch people - simple as that. There are different kinds of tacklers of course, they don't all work in same way, and there's no 1 that deserves the name tackler more than the other
Deva Blackfire coracao ardente	Posted - 2009.01.17 09:40:00 - [26] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 17/01/2009 09:41:28 Originally by: Emotek Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: ollobrains2 mmm get a tackler now. CCP do nerf i win buttons so dont be surprised Interdictor is a tackler, dummy CCP should nerf your "I post" button I have to disagree somewhat. Interdictors are not 'tacklers' per se unless you fit Warp Disrupt or Warp Scramble modules (mid slot) on them. Interdictors have a limited range of motion in that once the warp disrupt probe is placed it can not be moved. The Interdictor must place a new probe resulting in heavily limited 'tackling' abilities. I suppose that it is quite possible to place Stasis Webifiers on the Interdictor to allow for enhanced 'tackling' abilities but, in my opinion, it will never be a true 'tackler'. Heavy Interdictors with no Warp Disrupt or Warp Scramble modules (mid sllot) are, I would consider, true 'tacklers' but they suffer from friendly fire effects in non-CONCORD space (and, to a lesser degree, in CONCORD space). Dictor is not a tackler but HICtor is. LOL - your logic is as flawed as it could be. And btw: every dictor out there has mwd+warp disruptor (unless its 100% suicide/one action fit or piloted by newb). And when we are talking about "tackler" role it is second closest "true tackler" in the game right after interceptor.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.01.17 11:04:00 - [27] i'd understand if non-stationary bubbles didn't share the same characteristics. besides, hic bubbles started the distinguishing -.-
Ruoska	Posted - 2009.01.26 10:43:00 - [28] A bug hunter response seems to indicate what is considered proper warp disrupt probe functionaliy; Quote: //Hi. I have tried to reproduce this several times on the test server in the system you mention, the bubble only sucks me in if it dropped within 100km of the stargate. Anything above 100km and it does not suck me in. //This is the normal behavior for a warp disruption bubble. I was unable to find a bug there. //Thanks, BH Leoroar For me, this is very bad news, but I can adapt... I reproduce this here because this is one of those things that CCP fails to tell us and we end up thinking something else due to the inconsistent implementations. Hope this information helps dictor pilots
Stefan F Enrave Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.01.26 13:08:00 - [29] As far as I know the 100km limit has been there for ages, so nothing new here.
Ruoska	Posted - 2009.01.26 13:22:00 - [30] Originally by: Stefan F As far as I know the 100km limit has been there for ages, so nothing new here. Please tell us, where did you get this information? I, like others I have talked with, have drawn our own deductions based on trial and error and comparing experiences. Note however, that this is not actually KNOWING it, but having theorem based on experiences...
Ephemeron North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.26 18:20:00 - [31] Originally by: Ruoska [b]Bug Hunter has informed me that the proper functionality covers only 100km from a gate. Since this has not been given us, as far as I know, I relay that message here for you.[/b If that's true, I lose even more respect for CCP. All they do now is make their game worse with every patch. They should stop ****ing with it now if they are this bad at understanding what players need. Or replace the staff with more competent people On the other hand, there's still a chance the bug hunter guy is wrong. There's always some hope
Dal Deinvisu Ventis Secundis	Posted - 2009.01.26 22:55:00 - [32] As far as I know, that has always been the functionality of bubbles.
achoura	Posted - 2009.01.26 23:02:00 - [33] I don't understand this thread, dictors were pulling ppl in at 100k years ago, they still are. True its been tweaked occasionally, and they need to be down before they're in warp, but it works at 100k still. If the op, as he claims, truly knows what he is doing why this thread is here i do not know, unless he was in an ibis when were were dropping bubbles.
Ephemeron North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.27 00:08:00 - [34] There's absolutely no reason to have the artificial limit of 100km Warp bubble effect is supposed to be grid wide - grid size is the technical limitation. Setting it to 100km as opposed to maximum allowable is just self gimping. Why would CCP purposefully gimp their own game?
Ruoska	Posted - 2009.01.27 13:36:00 - [35] Originally by: Dal Deinvisu As far as I know, that has always been the functionality of bubbles. Another "As far as I know..." person, please tell us; how have you become to know this? Where did you read this from? Genuinely would like to know, if this could have been learned somewhere from CCP published patchnotes or other. If the answer is "my buddy told me so" or "that's how they work for me", then you don't know ****, and I rather have you not posting in this thread, thank you. Cheers
Ruoska	Posted - 2009.01.27 13:46:00 - [36] Originally by: achoura I don't understand this thread, dictors were pulling ppl in at 100k years ago, they still are. True its been tweaked occasionally, and they need to be down before they're in warp, but it works at 100k still. If the op, as he claims, truly knows what he is doing why this thread is here i do not know, unless he was in an ibis when were were dropping bubbles. Hope this helps you understand a little better... Today in TQ, bubbles suck indeed (almost always) up to 100km. However they also mostly also suck targets up to 150km, and many even beyond. Like I have tried to say before, to the best of my knowledge, CCP has not revealed us how far these bubbles are supposed to work. This leaves empirical testing for us. In my case, various tries I have done have lead me to believe that probes are to work within the whole grid, regardless of the distance (yes, there are gate grids like this, and lots of them). So you see, no actual knowledge available about their functionality and inconsistent implementation across New Eden gates creates this situation. My game-reality in regards to this aspect has been nerfed. Your's isn't since you are in some way under the understanding that 100km is the maximum extent of effect. Looks like you're not alone, here's atleast 2 "As far as I know" people in this thread. Similarly, I am not alone either. There are other people out there that thought this was different. Who is right, does the BH really know what he is talking about, why won't CCP drop us a definite answer here? This is what this thread is now about, as far as I can see it :)
Dal Deinvisu Ventis Secundis	Posted - 2009.01.27 17:12:00 - [37] Edited by: Dal Deinvisu on 27/01/2009 17:14:33 Ruoska, I play this game, and I like to be aware of its mechanics; it's a lot cheaper to fly if you don't lose ships often. I, in my experience with the game, have never seen a WDP snag a ship that far out, while I have seen them catch ships inside of 100km from their warp target. You wanted people to reply to your topic, and I'm relaying my experience, take it for what you will.
Ruoska	Posted - 2009.01.28 10:24:00 - [38] Originally by: Dal Deinvisu Edited by: Dal Deinvisu on 27/01/2009 17:14:33 Ruoska, I play this game, and I like to be aware of its mechanics; it's a lot cheaper to fly if you don't lose ships often. I, in my experience with the game, have never seen a WDP snag a ship that far out, while I have seen them catch ships inside of 100km from their warp target. You wanted people to reply to your topic, and I'm relaying my experience, take it for what you will. Yes, and there we go... Your knowledge on this is as useless as mine, and everyone else's. None of us apparently have anything else to go on except our personal experiences that have now proven to be greatly varied due to the inconsistent implementation in this matter. CCP input please, tell us what is the expected functional range. I am assuming the BH might be right, but it would really be nice of you to simply drop a line here confirming this.
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.01.28 10:49:00 - [39] its all about balance
Deva Blackfire Viziam	Posted - 2009.01.28 10:58:00 - [40] Originally by: Dal Deinvisu Edited by: Dal Deinvisu on 27/01/2009 17:14:33 Ruoska, I play this game, and I like to be aware of its mechanics; it's a lot cheaper to fly if you don't lose ships often. I, in my experience with the game, have never seen a WDP snag a ship that far out, while I have seen them catch ships inside of 100km from their warp target. You wanted people to reply to your topic, and I'm relaying my experience, take it for what you will. Nope. Back when i was in CELES in fountain (almost 2 years ago?)i had 150-200km dictor spots and they did work and drag in ppl warping to gates. Same worked back in deklein a bit over 1 year ago - had 180km catch spot in 2R- (or 2-K, on of those systems) from YA0 to CCP-US gate. And yes it did work. At some point tho it ceased to work + new "feature" was introduced and ships started to warp THRU my bubbles even tho they were 30km off the gate. Also fun fact - i had a guy start to warp out and i dropped bubble on him cancelling his warp. Fun part is he DID warp but around 50km only O_o. Its as if WDP broke his warp when he was at "warp speed".
Ruoska	Posted - 2009.01.29 11:29:00 - [41] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Back when i was in CELES in fountain (almost 2 years ago?)i had 150-200km dictor spots and they did work and drag in ppl warping to gates. Same worked back in deklein a bit over 1 year ago - had 180km catch spot in 2R- (or 2-K, on of those systems) from YA0 to CCP-US gate. And yes it did work. At some point tho it ceased to work + new "feature" was introduced and ships started to warp THRU my bubbles even tho they were 30km off the gate. Also fun fact - i had a guy start to warp out and i dropped bubble on him cancelling his warp. Fun part is he DID warp but around 50km only O_o. Its as if WDP broke his warp when he was at "warp speed". I haven't had quite as colorful experiences myself. If I had, I'd be alot more distressed (altho, since I have no reason to doubt you, this isn't actually setting my mind at ease either) So, pretty pretty please, devs. Give us a baseline how they are supposed to work, so people won't be bug reporting and petitioning the colorful implementation based on individual opinions how they should/could work.
Ruoska	Posted - 2009.01.31 21:05:00 - [42] Dev input would be greatly appreciated.
Ruoska	Posted - 2009.02.11 00:23:00 - [43] Is the magic word "pretty please?"
Ruoska	Posted - 2009.02.15 11:14:00 - [44] Still looking dev input on this matter... Question: What is the maximum range from a gate that Warp Disruption Probe's are officially supposed to work?
Ruoska	Posted - 2009.03.02 11:46:00 - [45] I know everyone is majorly busy with Apocrathytrath(something), but if dev gets a sudden coffeine overdoze and might give us input at some point as well...

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