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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 13 post(s)
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.13 20:03:00 - [1] My poor Vaio only has Shader Model 1.4 This is pretty terrible news for me. Sad. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.13 21:12:00 - [2] Originally by: Lothris Andastar If your PC cant support Premium Lite, then its 10+ years old, and you have better things to spend your money on (like a new PC) than eve. Bye, noone will miss you. be glad they even gave you two months heads up so u can buy a new GFX card eh? I hate this attitude. My laptop has shader model 1.4, and there is no way I am upgrading it, I just can't afford to what with the way the economy is going. I bought it specifically because it could run Eve, and at the time that meant buying a ú1200 machine. It may be "junk" by modern standards, but actually it is perfectly adequate for general family use (it's a Sony PCG-K115Z), and I can use it to get my Eve fix when I am away from home. If there is a real need to up the minimum specs then I guess I have to accept that, but what exactly is it that CCP are adding that Classic couldn't represent? I am guessing nothing. Rendering my laptop unable to play Eve, the very reason I choose this specific machine, just because coding and maintaining Classic takes some effort is damn insulting. Gah.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.13 22:05:00 - [3] Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII It's not ccp's fault you have a crap computer. Otoh it isn't our fault they are increasing the minimum specs just to make their life easier.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.13 22:20:00 - [4] Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII No but do you expect a reimbursement from every company that improves its users experience? Premium and Classic are two very seperate beasts, and together they allow for the best of both worlds. However, CCP want to drop Classic to make less work for themselves, it will do nothing to improve the experience of the people who already run Premium. Your arguement is flawed. This isn't about making Eve better for the players.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.13 22:24:00 - [5] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Originally by: Avon This isn't about making Eve better for the players. Read the dev blog again. Yes it is. Time is saved not maintaining an entire separate client - it doesn't take a genius to work out that more time for other features does improve EVE, albeit indirectly. No, it just means you can maintain the current levels with less staff.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.13 22:34:00 - [6] Originally by: James Lyrus http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-095-OK That's a GeForce 6 series card, right? AGP, SM3.0, and ú35. OK so that's a whole 2 months EVE sub, but I'm not sure the sky is falling here. How do I install that in my laptop? Got a guide or HOWTO? Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.13 23:19:00 - [7] Originally by: James Lyrus No, but I hear laptops aren't designed to upgrade. I figured you probably knew that when you bought it. Which is exactly why I spent a lot of money buying (at the time) the top of the range laptop which easily surpassed the minimum requirement of Eve (in fact, it was better than my desktop machine at the time). What annoys me is that CCP are removing my ability to use it for the reason I bought it simply to make things easier for themselves. I don't really accept that the removal of SM1 support for their 3D database front-end is anything to do with improving Eve, rather than just reducing workload. Removing Classic does nothing to make Eve better.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.13 23:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Random Incarnate Removing Classic reduces time spent creating new art assets, etc for Classic, so that time can then be dedicated to Premium. I see their logic here, but it sucks if you're running SM1, and might suck if you're running SM2. Thing is, it isn't like new art and assets are often added to classic, are they? People who run classic don't want the glitz, they want to be able to log in and play. I just don't get what benefit there is for the subscriber. If they need more Devs to support classic then employ some. Probably better to spend the money you get to keep by not removing subscribers than to just throw it away. 5% of 250,000 people paying 15 bucks a month? Surely you can find someone who would keep classic running for that?
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.14 01:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII if you want to use a laptop for something it's not actually designed for i.e gaming then im afraid you have to pay quite a decent amount of money for an actual GAMING laptop as apposed to a normal laptop which are designed for business users. Except this was designed as a laptop for gaming. It cost like $2000 when it was released and, unlike many laptops on the market at the time, had dedicated graphics rather than onboard. It was well above Eve's minimum specs, and so I bought it because it would play Eve. It was very much a gamers laptop.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.14 01:38:00 - [10] Edited by: Avon on 14/01/2009 01:42:05 Edited by: Avon on 14/01/2009 01:40:25 Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII Try reading the actual dev blog less codepaths=improved performance on the codepath they can focus on rather than having 2 dodgy half arsed clients. I read the DevBlog. However, I am dubious that dropping Classic will lead to improvements in Eve in general. For a start, as I pointed out before, even if you only lose 5% of the playerbase that is over $200k in lost revenue (per month). Either you gotta lose some devs, thus making improvements more unlikely, or take a huge hit in profits in the hope that you make up the numbers later. Or, you keep some manpower on Classic, keeping your subscribers, and continue to be able to fund futher development of Premium.

Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.14 20:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Somal Thunder It's more economic for CCP to just have to pay for the development of one client instead of two. If CCP only lose 5% of their playerbase who can't upgrade, that's over $2mil per year. That is a lot of Dev hours you can no longer afford. If it is more hours than are dedicated to maintaining the Classic client it will have to impact elsewhere also.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.14 21:09:00 - [12] Originally by: Clare Starblaze Originally by: Hiro Nacatomy Hey all, I understand from a business perspective that there is a lot to maintain, however please flip the coin and look at the chain effect. I have 3 alts that i like to run at the same time, and do so by two pc's split monitor setup, I also have an awsome computer setup with a 788 mb card. The problem is that there is just way tooo much lag on premo when i do this. Classic should be maintained, you created the dragon, and now you need to feed him. Now that i have gotten accustomed to paying for 3 active accounts and CCP is accustomed to taking my cash for it. You should keep Classic. problem just is the resource usage for 2 clients, not only dev support but phisical computing assets needed as well. it costs less computing assets for ccp to put us on one client rather than two, thus netting more free resources for there servers to dedicate out during peak periods. I do agree that the frame rate using premium graphics is a little low, but the lite style graphics is supposed to help with this without tying up large amounts of additional resources on ccps part. and like has been said befor most developers are saying that needing to support sm 1 is holding them back, so they have decided not to do so anymore, and ccp should do so as well to furthur their own development. The servers farm out the same info to all clients. Also, Shader Models do not currently hold CCP back because they have two seperate clients. When they have one client, then shader models will be a restriction to development. The whole idea just seems silly, so I guess there must be another factor that they haven't told us about. Throwing away $2mil in revenue per year just so you can reduce your potential subscriber base .. doesn't that sound odd to anyone? Premium can stride ahead already, because people have Classic to fall back on. I don't care if Classic looks "old" .. in fact I would like the alternate scanline rendering back too, that looked awesome. We don't want CCP to make Classic like Premium, we just want to be able to continue to log on and play the game we love. I couldn't care less if Classic won't have ambulation, I don't need it. I just want to be able to take my laptop with me knowing I can log on and enjoy Eve where ever I may be. The clients are both just different frontends to the same data and tasks - there is no need to remove one of them, and keeping them both is better for the community. CCP can still develop the new Premium version, and maintain classic - they just don't want to. If it was judt about cost or development time, they wouldn't be throwing away $200,000 per month.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.15 01:38:00 - [13] Edited by: Avon on 15/01/2009 01:45:00 Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Avon The servers farm out the same info to all clients (...) The clients are both just different frontends to the same data and tasks No, the Classic and Premium clients are two different frontends to two different sets of art assets. While we continue to support the Classic client then every new art asset has to be done in duplicate. That is what we did in the Quantum Rise expansion, all the new star gates and the Orca were all done in duplicate, completely separate Classic and Premium versions. You totally misunderstood what I was saying. I was talking server side data, in response to the claim that ditching classic would somehow make the server run better. But then, this thread is all about misinformation, right? We aren't asking for classic to be max possible glitz, just functional. I couldn't care less if T3 ships look great or were just reskinned versions of existing stuff, It doesn't make any difference to the game, which fortunately is a whole lot more than just a bunch of nice graphics. Or maybe it isn't anymore? Not to you?
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.15 01:42:00 - [14] Basically this is a: "We can't be bothered to continue supporting the people who have supported us since beta" thing. How about you replace my laptop for me? I haven't changed the minimum specs for Eve, and I haven't asked for them to change. This is all about CCP, and nothing about the players. Shameful. "We won't do T3 ships for Classic because we just don't care enough about you". Thanks.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.15 01:54:00 - [15] "Guys, guys, it's nearly March!!" 'Uh-huh' "We ready to go with the new expansion?" 'Nope, playing fussball man' " !!! " 'Chill bro, we got a plan. We only code half of it, and then tell the subscribers that the we are ditching Classic because of technical limitation. It's cool.' "They'll never fall for tha.. hmmm, let's try." 'If it works we can ditch even more stuff later and all go make female vampire skins in the autumn.' "EPIC!" Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Ming Mongol The real joke here is that CCP expects people to shell out cash to upgrade their luxury entertainment platforms at a time when the world is going to hell and disposable income is rapidly diminishing. Makes me wonder if there is anyone thinking over there. No the real joke is that they expect you to do it so that you can keep paying them money.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.16 01:57:00 - [17] Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Solanio My concern ist that CCP is driving this game more and more towards shiny and unneeded beautiful, instead of putting the same money into hardware upgrades, content additions, bug fixing, etc. We are also putting a lot of resources into that: Re-factoring and performance enhancements, StacklessIO, Jita fixes, EVE64, hardware improvements and UI performance improvements. None of that is much good if you can no longer play though, is it? Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.16 17:00:00 - [18] Originally by: zombu2 finally admitt your computers are crap and do something about it invest the 50 bucks to all that bought those cheapo laptops ...you knew what you where buying and you always get what you pay for next time spend a couple hundred more on a laptop My "cheapo" laptop was over $2000 and purchased because it was well in excess of the requirements for Eve. As of March I will no longer be able to use it to play Eve, one of the main reasons I choose that specific machine. Just because this change is not impacting on you is no reason to belittle those who go have genuine concerns. If getting a new laptop is such a trivial thing, you are quite welcome to buy me one. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.16 18:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Rex Lashar Two, if you're only making premium versions of the new art assets, what exactly are Classic people going to see when a T3 ship warps in? Nothing, because there won't be an Eve Classic then, that is the whole point. They can't be bothered to put the effort in, and would rather throw $2mil per year away in the hope they can claw it back from new subs. Sod the people who can't play, CCP don't care.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.17 02:36:00 - [20] Originally by: Haral Reimo Edited by: Haral Reimo on 17/01/2009 01:24:35 Originally by: Avon My "cheapo" laptop was over $2000 and purchased because it was well in excess of the requirements for Eve. As of March I will no longer be able to use it to play Eve, one of the main reasons I choose that specific machine. Just because this change is not impacting on you is no reason to belittle those who go have genuine concerns. If getting a new laptop is such a trivial thing, you are quite welcome to buy me one. Wow, they saw you coming when you bought that computer. My laptop supports SM2. I bought it in September 2005, for about the same price as you paid. Shader model 2 did not exist when I bought my laptop, so no, they didn't see me coming.

Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.17 13:22:00 - [21] Edited by: Avon on 17/01/2009 13:26:56 Originally by: Sky Marshal Originally by: Polinus Nope its the simple truth. If you choose a computer specifically to play a game you then select a computer that can play that game well. If you don't do it its YOUR fail. If he selected his computer to play at Classic, then he didn't fail. Considering Premium hadn't even been thought of at the time, and SM3 didn't even exist, I find it hard to see how I could have choosen differently. It was, at the time, much more powerful than most desktop PC's. The guy is a troll, ignore him. I remember when Premium was being talked about being worried, and then reassured when CCP stated they would continue to support Classic. Now they have a tight deadline, and need to drop something to meet it. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure

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