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Alan Lincoln	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:31:00 - [31] Originally by: Crackzilla Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth that the message to upgrade to SM3 OR ELSE at the end of 2009 gives me a serious problem Did you even read the devblog? tl;dr. (your post that is)
Rufus MacMaranth Gallente Shadow Front	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:32:00 - [32] Originally by: Qordel Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth Originally by: Khemul Zula How long companies expect the computer to last and how long the computer industry expects the computer to last are two entirely different things. The computer industry considers 3 years the standard life for computer parts (and thus computers themselves). BS again ... companies buy the parts and software. It is therefore more than relevant. If it was irrelevant we could not still get security patches for Windows 2K Server which is, what, 9 years old now? You simply can't lump all software and hardware together. My company makes enterprise-level server LDAP and messaging and identity server software and our EOL/EOSL for them tends to be a full five years. That does not mean the same expectation is there for a game, where changes are more frequent and dynamic. Beside, as I already pointed out, by the time this happens your laptop will be 4.5 years old. So you have no complaint. Well, I can use example to show precedence, and it is by no means alone in that. 4.5 years is also not 5, and actually pushing it back for 6 months may well make a difference to me and other people. I have also been in the business from both a hardware and software supplier and an end customer role. I can tell you for free that the software and hardware makers expectations of turn-over are only their own dreams and always turn out to be overly optimistic in terms of their own revenue streams. Cheers, Ruf.
Krefken Howiere Mass Production	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:33:00 - [33] Calling EVE 'existing software' is somewhat misleading. EVE is continuously developed, so that is completely irrelevant. It's completely stupid to expect your 5 year old laptop to still be able to run a new game without issues, isn't it? Guess what, the continuously developing nature of the game means it is actually new software. It's a new game with all the changes that happen. PC users without SM3 support that are complaining: If you can't afford $100 at some point in the next 11 months, you have bigger things in life to worry about than EVE. Go get a part time job a few hours a week, you'll be fine. Laptop users: If it's so expensive for you to get a new laptop, try getting a PC and stop whining all the god damn time. Sorry, no sympathy. None is deserved. If I were in CCP's position I'd be doing the same thing, and so would the vast majority of people.
Rufus MacMaranth Gallente Shadow Front	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:33:00 - [34] Originally by: Alan Lincoln Originally by: Crackzilla Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth that the message to upgrade to SM3 OR ELSE at the end of 2009 gives me a serious problem Did you even read the devblog? tl;dr. (your post that is) And you read my posts? Clearly not. You are lacking reading comprehension I. Cheers, Ruf.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:35:00 - [35] Edited by: Khemul Zula on 14/01/2009 18:36:43 Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth Originally by: Khemul Zula Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth BS on the 2-3 year thing. Very few companies expect computers to last less than 5. How long companies expect the computer to last and how long the computer industry expects the computer to last are two entirely different things. The computer industry considers 3 years the standard life for computer parts (and thus computers themselves). BS again ... companies buy the parts and software. It is therefore more than relevant. If it was irrelevant we could not still get security patches for Windows 2K Server which is, what, 9 years old now? You are still missing the point. The computer industry only expects support for a product to be 3 years. That is the effective life of the part. If MS decides to support their software for 9 years, that has absolutely nothing to do with hardware obsolescence. From the point of view of software developers, you system is obsolete. They can choose to support it if they wish, but that is entirely up to them. It is generally considered a waste of time/money to support obsolete technology. ------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
Rufus MacMaranth Gallente Shadow Front	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:37:00 - [36] Originally by: Krefken Howiere Calling EVE 'existing software' is somewhat misleading. EVE is continuously developed, so that is completely irrelevant. It's completely stupid to expect your 5 year old laptop to still be able to run a new game without issues, isn't it? Guess what, the continuously developing nature of the game means it is actually new software. It's a new game with all the changes that happen. PC users without SM3 support that are complaining: If you can't afford $100 at some point in the next 11 months, you have bigger things in life to worry about than EVE. Go get a part time job a few hours a week, you'll be fine. Laptop users: If it's so expensive for you to get a new laptop, try getting a PC and stop whining all the god damn time. Sorry, no sympathy. None is deserved. If I were in CCP's position I'd be doing the same thing, and so would the vast majority of people. Um, I have a full time job. I just have other things in life to worry about and to spend $1,000. You clearly don't those worries and as with many in that position are clueless. EVE is a subscription service that uses software. I am not buying new versions of EVE as they come out. Subscription models have different expectations than those games that come out as v1, v2, v3 .... etc and you pay your $50 per go. They are asking for opinions on the move to wholly SM3 at the end of 2009. I am giving my opinion. My opinion is no. Cheers, Ruf.
Rufus MacMaranth Gallente Shadow Front	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:40:00 - [37] Originally by: Khemul Zula Edited by: Khemul Zula on 14/01/2009 18:36:43 Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth Originally by: Khemul Zula Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth BS on the 2-3 year thing. Very few companies expect computers to last less than 5. How long companies expect the computer to last and how long the computer industry expects the computer to last are two entirely different things. The computer industry considers 3 years the standard life for computer parts (and thus computers themselves). BS again ... companies buy the parts and software. It is therefore more than relevant. If it was irrelevant we could not still get security patches for Windows 2K Server which is, what, 9 years old now? You are still missing the point. The computer industry only expects support for a product to be 3 years. That is the effective life of the part. If MS decides to support their software for 9 years, that has absolutely nothing to do with hardware obsolescence. From the point of view of software developers, you system is obsolete. They can choose to support it if they wish, but that is entirely up to them. It is generally considered a waste of time/money to support obsolete technology. No, it is called keeping your customer base happy so that they buy more of your hardware/software and you stay in business in the long term. Only dumb software companies have a different view (of which there are certainly a few). Whether you love or hate Microsoft they clearly have done something right over the years in terms of earning cash .. which is, after all, what being in business is all about. Cheers, Ruf.
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:41:00 - [38] Originally by: Alan Lincoln Originally by: Qordel Your laptop is 3.5 years old and if CCP moves to SM3 only at the end of the year, it'll be 4.5. So what you're saying is that you demand CCP continue supporting your system for six more months beyond that? My brand new laptop is only sm2, but hey. So yes, I would say it's fair to say that it's a silly idea to move to pure sm3 My brand new Treo cell phone doesn't support SM3 either. So what? The sillier idea is continuing to dedicate significant resources to a client that will be needed by such a small percentage of users. If they were talking about 10% or 15% of the userbase, I'd agree that it's unwise. That isn't the case, though. -- What's your EVE New Year's Resolution for 2009?
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:41:00 - [39] Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer Also the point is that it works now, but in future it won't and you need to spend at least 400-500$ and that's far from being a good runner for it. Basically you paying 500$ for crappy performance just to be able to play a game that works now. Not true. I was out shopping and on a lark decided to look at some laptops for cheap mobile internet connectivity and every one with the newer intel 4500 graphics chips ran eve premium just dandy with no issues. All of the ones I looked at also never topped $550 after tax. Plus after this big push ccp has done to modernize the eve client I doubt they will be undertaking another leap for years to come that will outdate anything you buy now that has at least sm3 support though all the brand new laptops seeem to offer dx10 and sm4 as standard now. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Krefken Howiere Mass Production	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:47:00 - [40] Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth Um, I have a full time job. I just have other things in life to worry about and to spend $1,000. You clearly don't those worries and as with many in that position are clueless. Hey man, great for you! I have a job also, but no, the money isn't a worry to me. I can tell you though, that if I couldn't afford $600 every 2-3 years to get a new laptop, I wouldn't be spending a big chunk of my time playing video games. Priorities. Quote: EVE is a subscription service that uses software. I am not buying new versions of EVE as they come out. Subscription models have different expectations than those games that come out as v1, v2, v3 .... etc and you pay your $50 per go. So you are saying that CCP needs to charge for expansions in order to be able to make changes to hardware requirements? Wouldn't that just hurt your financial situation even more? Sorry, but this isn't the same game that you initially bought. Please note the messages of 'game experience may change during online play' or whatever it is. You pay for the development of the game as well as use of it, that's the entire idea of MMO's. Quote: They are asking for opinions on the move to wholly SM3 at the end of 2009. I am giving my opinion. My opinion is no. Good for you. My opinion is that they should charge the costs of maintaining the support for the old users by charging the people who can't use the new version higher subscription fees. That sounds fair, right?

Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:47:00 - [41] Edited by: Khlitouris RegusII on 14/01/2009 18:52:01 Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth Well, I for one play on a 3 1/2 yr old laptop .... which in my case means SM2 ... ATI Radeon 9800. I thus have no problems with going to SM2. I have to admit, though, that the message to upgrade to SM3 OR ELSE at the end of 2009 gives me a serious problem in a game that I SUBSCRIBE to. I obviously will not buy games that cannot run on my laptop, but as I am already playing and paying for EVE I would be somewhat disturbed if CCP forced me to either (a) stop playing or (b) spend $1000-$1500 on a new laptop. Now, some of you mutter "go buy a new laptop every 2 years". This is nuts for some people. You know those who either (a) have families and some sense of priority, (b) are not working, (c) are in a recession, (d) have this negative equity thing going on, (e) etc, etc. PCs are not supposed to have a shelf life of 2 years for existing software ... even Microsoft doesn't do that! A 5 year back software support regime is reasonable and this means SM2 support. Just my 10c worth. thank god you dont run a progressive game developer company is all i can say. shader model 2.0 is nearly 5 year old tech its OLD OLD hat.my 4 year old x1900 is sm2. too many people try to play games on a laptop not designed for games then moan when it either doesnt or they have to upgrade if you want to play GAMES you need to get a machine capable of playing GAMES.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:51:00 - [42] Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth No, it is called keeping your customer base happy so that they buy more of your hardware/software and you stay in business in the long term. Only dumb software companies have a different view (of which there are certainly a few). Whether you love or hate Microsoft they clearly have done something right over the years in terms of earning cash .. which is, after all, what being in business is all about. Microsoft is a horrible example though. Windows is an operating system. By the time it is released the hardware it was designed for is 3-4 years old. It also take a long time to create an actual replacement. Use a type of software that doesn't have a 5 year development cycle before the next upgrade comes out. ------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
Bish Ounen Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:51:00 - [43] Edited by: Bish Ounen on 14/01/2009 18:53:10 HERE YOU GO. EVERY SINGLE ONE of the laptops listed there are SM 3.0 or 4.0 capable, making them MORE than enough to run EvE. NONE of them are over $1000.00 US. Now stop whining and just buy a new laptop. Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:52:00 - [44] ITT we learn that eve users will really bawww about everything
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:55:00 - [45] Originally by: Bish Ounen Edited by: Bish Ounen on 14/01/2009 18:53:10 HERE YOU GO. EVERY SINGLE ONE of the laptops listed there are SM 3.0 or 4.0 capable, making them MORE than enough to run EvE. NONE of them are over $1000.00 US. Now stop whining and just buy a new laptop. HOLY ****. That's FOUR whole SHADER MODELS! You can keep your three necessary shaders and give the fourth one to someone else who only has two! -- What's your EVE New Year's Resolution for 2009?
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:57:00 - [46] Originally by: Faife ITT we learn that eve users will really bawww about everything I don't think its so much the 'bawww over everything' as the 'omg someone(ccp) has told me to upgrade my pre 2000 aging piece of shiat laptop/pc that can barely run eve classic and furry pron at the same time or gtfo of eve' and we all know what type of threads those type of people make. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Anvalor Gallente Germania Inc. D0GMA	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:58:00 - [47] Originally by: Qordel My brand new Treo cell phone doesn't support SM3 either. So what? The sillier idea is continuing to dedicate significant resources to a client that will be needed by such a small percentage of users. If they were talking about 10% or 15% of the userbase, I'd agree that it's unwise. That isn't the case, though. And how do you know that again ? Are you just guessing or do you have some real numbers ? CCP is guessing but i bet they do not really know how many people use older computers. What i also find funny that many people just believe that after there is only a premium client (if they decide to do that) we will have much more content or it wil be developed faster. I think we will see if that becomes true but only because CCP says so does not mean it will. What if CCP has more recources left to develope new content faster but reduces the numbers of devs for some reason like .... let me think ... maybe financial reasons ? For me it wont change much if my pc can handle 2 premium clients. I did not test this yet. But i can understand people that do not have the money to upgrade their computers. And i find it very arrogant that some people just say "buy better hardware". Maybe those people could pay for the others that can not afford this new hardware.
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:59:00 - [48] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Faife ITT we learn that eve users will really bawww about everything I don't think its so much the 'bawww over everything' as the 'omg someone(ccp) has told me to upgrade my pre 2000 aging piece of shiat laptop/pc that can barely run eve classic and furry pron at the same time or gtfo of eve' and we all know what type of threads those type of people make. I just want to clarify that I (and many others, I suspect) are not deriding people for having aged hardware that won't play the game in the future without upgrade or replacement. We agree that it sucks for you and perhaps you have significant reasons preventing you from making any changes. Money is tight for everyone, but tighter for some more than others. However, the expectation that CCP should be obligated to indefinitely support that minute subset of users is ridiculous and does not generate any sympathy whatsoever. Yes, it sucks. No, the fact that it sucks doesn't justify continuing support.
Bish Ounen Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.01.14 18:59:00 - [49] Originally by: Qordel Originally by: Bish Ounen Edited by: Bish Ounen on 14/01/2009 18:53:10 HERE YOU GO. EVERY SINGLE ONE of the laptops listed there are SM 3.0 or 4.0 capable, making them MORE than enough to run EvE. NONE of them are over $1000.00 US. Now stop whining and just buy a new laptop. HOLY ****. That's FOUR whole SHADER MODELS! You can keep your three necessary shaders and give the fourth one to someone else who only has two! ROFL! WTS Extra Shader models asking: 1BN ISK or faction BS trade
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.14 19:01:00 - [50] Originally by: Anvalor Originally by: Qordel My brand new Treo cell phone doesn't support SM3 either. So what? The sillier idea is continuing to dedicate significant resources to a client that will be needed by such a small percentage of users. If they were talking about 10% or 15% of the userbase, I'd agree that it's unwise. That isn't the case, though. And how do you know that again ? Are you just guessing or do you have some real numbers ? CCP is guessing but i bet they do not really know how many people use older computers. I know it because CCP said so and they know it because it's their damn game. You don't think that their servers know what kind of system you're connecting from? If they did not know this information, it would be a pretty sad indicator.

Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.01.14 19:02:00 - [51] Originally by: Qordel Originally by: Bish Ounen Edited by: Bish Ounen on 14/01/2009 18:53:10 HERE YOU GO. EVERY SINGLE ONE of the laptops listed there are SM 3.0 or 4.0 capable, making them MORE than enough to run EvE. NONE of them are over $1000.00 US. Now stop whining and just buy a new laptop. HOLY ****. That's FOUR whole SHADER MODELS! You can keep your three necessary shaders and give the fourth one to someone else who only has two! Freakin communists. Sell! You can sell the fourth one!
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.14 19:04:00 - [52] Originally by: Qordel Originally by: Anvalor Originally by: Qordel My brand new Treo cell phone doesn't support SM3 either. So what? The sillier idea is continuing to dedicate significant resources to a client that will be needed by such a small percentage of users. If they were talking about 10% or 15% of the userbase, I'd agree that it's unwise. That isn't the case, though. And how do you know that again ? Are you just guessing or do you have some real numbers ? CCP is guessing but i bet they do not really know how many people use older computers. I know it because CCP said so and they know it because it's their damn game. You don't think that their servers know what kind of system you're connecting from? If they did not know this information, it would be a pretty sad indicator. Actualy not many game companies activly look for that information because of the stink that some people will make over "Invading users privacy"
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.14 19:05:00 - [53] Originally by: Anvalor For me it wont change much if my pc can handle 2 premium clients. I did not test this yet. But i can understand people that do not have the money to upgrade their computers. And i find it very arrogant that some people just say "buy better hardware". Maybe those people could pay for the others that can not afford this new hardware. See that the thing about progress and change. There is always an annoyed hermit who refuses to acknowledge lights and running water in every group. Besides if ccp was invalidating current hardware I might see your point but the fact is they are requirering users to drop a 10 year old graphics standard for a 5 year old graphics standard. Yes sm3 was current when eve was just sm1. I can't imagine in any situation past that annoyed hermit where a significant part of the playerbase is still stuck on sm1 level hardware.
Topminer1980 Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2009.01.14 19:07:00 - [54] why post this in GD and not the official thread? Adapt or die
Anvalor Gallente Germania Inc. D0GMA	Posted - 2009.01.14 19:07:00 - [55] Originally by: Qordel I know it because CCP said so and they know it because it's their damn game. You don't think that their servers know what kind of system you're connecting from? If they did not know this information, it would be a pretty sad indicator. from the devblog: "What we don't know is exactly how many. We estimate that about 95% of all subscribers currently have hardware that is SM2 compatible. We further predict that in q4 this year over 97% of subscribers will have SM3 capable hardware." So all i can see is CCP saying something about not knowing and predicting but can you please show me were they say that they know excactly how many % are using older computers ? I just can not find it.
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.14 19:11:00 - [56] Originally by: Raymon James Originally by: Qordel Originally by: Anvalor Originally by: Qordel My brand new Treo cell phone doesn't support SM3 either. So what? The sillier idea is continuing to dedicate significant resources to a client that will be needed by such a small percentage of users. If they were talking about 10% or 15% of the userbase, I'd agree that it's unwise. That isn't the case, though. And how do you know that again ? Are you just guessing or do you have some real numbers ? CCP is guessing but i bet they do not really know how many people use older computers. I know it because CCP said so and they know it because it's their damn game. You don't think that their servers know what kind of system you're connecting from? If they did not know this information, it would be a pretty sad indicator. Actualy not many game companies activly look for that information because of the stink that some people will make over "Invading users privacy" Except it's not an invasion of privacy. If they're tracking your individual system or data from it, that's one thing. It is entirely reasonable and often practiced to relay to their systems the aggregate information about the hardware their software is running on. Doing this for an offline game is not accepted so much, but an online one is obviously more acceptable by its nature. Not to mention, you can already gather a person's browser, browser resolution, screen resolution, operating system, operating system version, and many other pieces of such information just by having them visit your webpage (the information is part of the environment variables sent by the browser when requested).
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.01.14 19:11:00 - [57] Edited by: Khemul Zula on 14/01/2009 19:11:52 Originally by: Anvalor Originally by: Qordel I know it because CCP said so and they know it because it's their damn game. You don't think that their servers know what kind of system you're connecting from? If they did not know this information, it would be a pretty sad indicator. from the devblog: "What we don't know is exactly how many. We estimate that about 95% of all subscribers currently have hardware that is SM2 compatible. We further predict that in q4 this year over 97% of subscribers will have SM3 capable hardware." So all i can see is CCP saying something about not knowing and predicting but can you please show me were they say that they know excactly how many % are using older computers ? I just can not find it. Well short of invading everyone's privacy (assuming they don't already have this information, that is), that is the only number we have to go by. We either assume it is accurate enough to use, or that it was made up on the spot for the blog. Otherwise all we can do is speculate. I estimate 80% of EVE players still use SM1. Can you prove I am wrong?
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.14 19:13:00 - [58] Originally by: Anvalor Originally by: Qordel I know it because CCP said so and they know it because it's their damn game. You don't think that their servers know what kind of system you're connecting from? If they did not know this information, it would be a pretty sad indicator. from the devblog: "What we don't know is exactly how many. We estimate that about 95% of all subscribers currently have hardware that is SM2 compatible. We further predict that in q4 this year over 97% of subscribers will have SM3 capable hardware." So all i can see is CCP saying something about not knowing and predicting but can you please show me were they say that they know excactly how many % are using older computers ? I just can not find it. They said they don't know exactly. That doesn't mean they don't have very accurate count. If they aggregate the connection environment data, it would not be precise down to the individual for various reasons, but it would still be very accurate. Also, CCP has a much more accurate estimation than the numbers you or anyone else simply pulls out of their ******* to support their view.
Rufus MacMaranth Gallente Shadow Front	Posted - 2009.01.14 19:21:00 - [59] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Anvalor For me it wont change much if my pc can handle 2 premium clients. I did not test this yet. But i can understand people that do not have the money to upgrade their computers. And i find it very arrogant that some people just say "buy better hardware". Maybe those people could pay for the others that can not afford this new hardware. See that the thing about progress and change. There is always an annoyed hermit who refuses to acknowledge lights and running water in every group. Besides if ccp was invalidating current hardware I might see your point but the fact is they are requirering users to drop a 10 year old graphics standard for a 5 year old graphics standard. Yes sm3 was current when eve was just sm1. I can't imagine in any situation past that annoyed hermit where a significant part of the playerbase is still stuck on sm1 level hardware. Way to twist the facts. They are invalidating hardware that does not support SM3 (if they make their choice at the end of 2009). This is invalidating hardware that is less than 5 years old, and I would suspect much newer low end systems. They are also threatening to invalidate their recommended hardware requirements within a relatively short period of time: * OS: Windows« System XP / Vista * CPU: Intel Pentium« IV 1.5 GHz or AMD XP 1500+ MHz * RAM: 1024 MB * HD space: 6.0 GB * Video: 128 MB NVIDIA GeForce 6200 class card or higher, ATI 9000 series or higher and Similar chips from other manufacturers * Network: Broadband Internet connection * Drivers: DirectX« 9.0c (included) and latest video drivers Note: my ATI 9800 does NOT have SM 3.0 support (and the 9700 in my other PC sure doesn't), and it fits nicely here. So, go figure. The reality is that broad support for standards always lags by 2 or 3 years. Get over it. The fact that you are a technophile is your problem, not mine.
Rufus MacMaranth Gallente Shadow Front	Posted - 2009.01.14 19:26:00 - [60] Originally by: Krefken Howiere Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth Um, I have a full time job. I just have other things in life to worry about and to spend $1,000. You clearly don't those worries and as with many in that position are clueless. Hey man, great for you! I have a job also, but no, the money isn't a worry to me. I can tell you though, that if I couldn't afford $600 every 2-3 years to get a new laptop, I wouldn't be spending a big chunk of my time playing video games. Priorities. $15/month is not a big chunk .... it is what I do to entertain myself based on the fact that cable generally sucks, etc (which is what my wife likes to watch). And $600 every 2-3 years is BS. Originally by: Krefken Howiere Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth EVE is a subscription service that uses software. I am not buying new versions of EVE as they come out. Subscription models have different expectations than those games that come out as v1, v2, v3 .... etc and you pay your $50 per go. So you are saying that CCP needs to charge for expansions in order to be able to make changes to hardware requirements? Wouldn't that just hurt your financial situation even more? Sorry, but this isn't the same game that you initially bought. Please note the messages of 'game experience may change during online play' or whatever it is. You pay for the development of the game as well as use of it, that's the entire idea of MMO's. Yes I do, and that was not my point at all. My point was I can decline to take new releases of pay for the box games but still play the old versions. Subscription games work differently. I do not have that option to keep playing if they invalidate my hardware. CCP are also still promoting a game with a recommended feature set that does not even always support shader 3.0 at present. Originally by: Krefken Howiere Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth They are asking for opinions on the move to wholly SM3 at the end of 2009. I am giving my opinion. My opinion is no. Good for you. My opinion is that they should charge the costs of maintaining the support for the old users by charging the people who can't use the new version higher subscription fees. That sounds fair, right? Actually I would rather pay an extra $5 per month right now than shell out $1000 on a new PC before Christmas this year.



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