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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2009.01.16 05:59:00 - [1] What makes you think anyone would invest in another of your offerings after the last debacle?
Stardust CEO Stardust Manufacturing	Posted - 2009.01.16 06:01:00 - [2] Can you provide some background for the ignorant (like me) or a link or something? /Me puts on his flame-proof suit, and goes to search Cyberdine.
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2009.01.16 06:05:00 - [3] Edited by: Amarr Citizen 155 on 16/01/2009 06:07:01 I think Ray is referring to the recent Loney sightings in threads where people have money and are looking for places to invest it. Edit: Such as Here and HERE
Stardust CEO Stardust Manufacturing	Posted - 2009.01.16 06:10:00 - [4] Thanks, that'll do it.
Virtuozzo The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:30:00 - [5] Nobody in his right mind would give a penny to CyberDyne R-D.
Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.16 14:43:00 - [6] tbh this a bit harsh. Loney is honest and not a scam and does carry a lot of reputation with him, which is a lot more than most. With the last investment, investors believed that if there was someone who could make decent ISK from the graveyard that's known as capital market, it'd be Loney. Unfortunately, even he couldn't do it, but at least we got ISK back. So if he asks for ISK, a proper dissection of the business plan would need to be conducted far more thoroughly than before, but if it was all good, I'd have no problems stumping up the ISK.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2009.01.16 14:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Mr Horizontal tbh this a bit harsh. No, this is EVE. You're only as good as your last offering. So if you spam the forums with vague details of an unknown offering, expect me to call you on it.
Jacque Custeau Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2009.01.16 14:59:00 - [8] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Mr Horizontal tbh this a bit harsh. No, this is EVE. You're only as good as your last offering. So if you spam the forums with vague details of an unknown offering, expect me to call you on it. Before Mr. H's post the impression I was getting was that Loney was a scammer. So yes, it is a bit harsh. There needs to be a distinction between a bad business plan and someone who ran off with the money. I may have jumped to conclusions, but based on the thread prior to H's post and the other links provided, the impression I got was that this guy was a scam artist.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.01.16 15:16:00 - [9] I don't have a problme with what Ray said. To quote from Loney's last offering: "This investment is a LOW risk investment that pays big interest". IPO stated: 1. IPO started in feb 08 2. Raised 70B 3. Offered to pay 43% return over 6 months (7.17% per month) 4. Projected 100B return Actually: 1. Paid 78B return 2. 11.4% over 6 months (1.9% per month) 3. Required vote to get cash out 4. Some people didn't get paid until 2009 (nearly a year, which under 1% per month). Business plan failed. Exit strategy was poor Didn't respond to MD information (some mitigating circumstances but could have communicated that better) Agree with Ray.
Romanov DeBeers Gallente Small Gods	Posted - 2009.01.16 15:17:00 - [10] Foe the lazy here is the main Cyberdyne IPO info with info on the failure Cyberdyne

Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.16 19:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Mr Horizontal tbh this a bit harsh. No, this is EVE. You're only as good as your last offering. So if you spam the forums with vague details of an unknown offering, expect me to call you on it. I wouldn't expect anything less. It's just as Jacque Custeau said, he's not a scammer.
Loney CyberDyne R-D	Posted - 2009.01.16 21:29:00 - [12] Originally by: Ray McCormack What makes you think anyone would invest in another of your offerings after the last debacle? Not exactally sure what "debacle" you are refereing too? The only two IPO's CyberDyne R-E offered "BOTH" closed early by a "VOTE" from the shareholders with a total "PAYOUT" of "MORE" isk then they invested! Originally by: Stardust CEO Can you provide some background for the ignorant (like me) or a link or something? /Me puts on his flame-proof suit, and goes to search Cyberdine. Its's CyberDyne R-D... we are NOT responsible for any "CyberDyne Industries" happenings in the past. Everything about CDRD is linked in this thread Here Originally by: cosmoray I don't have a problme with what Ray said. To quote from Loney's last offering: "This investment is a LOW risk investment that pays big interest". IPO stated: 1. IPO started in feb 08 2. Raised 70B 3. Offered to pay 43% return over 6 months (7.17% per month) 4. Projected 100B return Actually: 1. Paid 78B return 2. 11.4% over 6 months (1.9% per month) 3. Required vote to get cash out 4. Some people didn't get paid until 2009 (nearly a year, which under 1% per month). Those numbers are correct EXCEPT for one detail... It closed after 5 months of opperation not 6, so its 2.6% per month. It is not solely CDRD's fault for shareholders to not recieved ISK. ALL shareholders were EVEMAIL 2x a WEEK for 2 months, Multiple posts were made on the forums EXACTALLY how to get back the isk. If they were out of game and or did not follow the directions they reserve some of the falure of late payouts. Originally by: Jacque Custeau Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Mr Horizontal tbh this a bit harsh. No, this is EVE. You're only as good as your last offering. So if you spam the forums with vague details of an unknown offering, expect me to call you on it. Before Mr. H's post the impression I was getting was that Loney was a scammer. So yes, it is a bit harsh. There needs to be a distinction between a bad business plan and someone who ran off with the money. I may have jumped to conclusions, but based on the thread prior to H's post and the other links provided, the impression I got was that this guy was a scam artist. This is EVE and I agree with everyone cuase it is nothing but facts that have been given so far. I posted recently on the market dicussions in several differnet threads with people looking to invest there money in something safe... yet still get some kind of interest. NOTICE if you actually read my posts I said I can offer 3-5% monthly and for DETAILS evemail me so we can meet on TS and talk. Okay now! Im sure there will be even more debates and people angry about something said and I will cross those bridges as they come. But for now I will leave it at: 1. Give me your ISK or don't... its up to you. 2. I am trustworthy with ANY amount of isk... IE NOT a scammer. 3. You will aways get your inital investment back Plus more. 4. It was NOT a bad Business plan, but a business plan that did not meet the goals due to outside factors that could not be controled. NOTE: #3.. yes in the past We have been a bit ambitious on payout ammounts becasue we thought it was possible. Also if you want to konw more about US please just ask, we don't lie or tell you things you want to hear! Loney Check us out!
Astarte Nosferatu Minmatar Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.16 21:36:00 - [13] In CyberDyne's defence, better to have tried and failed then to have never tried at all. Also, I'm wondering how many people would run a 70bil IPO, realise it has no chance of succes, get bad publicity about it and still decide to do the right thing and return all the isk with a premium. Hell, even I would have a hard time deciding what to do.
Xabier Amarr THE SORORITY	Posted - 2009.01.17 00:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Mr Horizontal With the last investment, investors believed that if there was someone who could make decent ISK from the graveyard that's known as capital market, it'd be Loney. Unfortunately, even he couldn't do it, but at least we got ISK back. I really never understood why people claimed it was a graveyard market. Dynasty Investments Manager Xabiers Capital Bond #1/2 (FINISHED) Xabiers Capital Bond #3/4
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.01.17 00:24:00 - [15] Originally by: Xabier Originally by: Mr Horizontal With the last investment, investors believed that if there was someone who could make decent ISK from the graveyard that's known as capital market, it'd be Loney. Unfortunately, even he couldn't do it, but at least we got ISK back. I really never understood why people claimed it was a graveyard market. Because of the insane qty of mins required most people assume capital manufacturing is done by buying the mins in large numbers off the market sell orders, or they have access to droves of mining drones and hauler spawns in an alliance.
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.01.17 00:51:00 - [16] TBH, it doesn't require that much in the way of minerals compared to say battleship production. It just requires them in inconvenient locations. And will you stop with the reprocessing hints already? Some of us are trying to make a killing here...
Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.17 01:41:00 - [17] Originally by: Xabier Originally by: Mr Horizontal With the last investment, investors believed that if there was someone who could make decent ISK from the graveyard that's known as capital market, it'd be Loney. Unfortunately, even he couldn't do it, but at least we got ISK back. I really never understood why people claimed it was a graveyard market. Because people firesell their caps. Once an alliance cascades they have no use for their moms/titans and sell at or even under market value to liquidate the ISK fast. As there are relatively fewer people who can afford even the discounted price of a supercap and while speculative trading is apparent (ie buy it up at a bargain and resell again with more patience), it's too little in volume to sustain the price of a supercap high enough to be a viable industry for manufacturers like Loney who need to sell their caps at proper profit. Also the fact you need Sov 4 for titans kinda limits the volume too. Chairman \| www.eve-bank.net
Xabier Amarr THE SORORITY	Posted - 2009.01.17 02:45:00 - [18] Originally by: Mr Horizontal Originally by: Xabier Originally by: Mr Horizontal With the last investment, investors believed that if there was someone who could make decent ISK from the graveyard that's known as capital market, it'd be Loney. Unfortunately, even he couldn't do it, but at least we got ISK back. I really never understood why people claimed it was a graveyard market. Because people firesell their caps. Once an alliance cascades they have no use for their moms/titans and sell at or even under market value to liquidate the ISK fast. As there are relatively fewer people who can afford even the discounted price of a supercap and while speculative trading is apparent (ie buy it up at a bargain and resell again with more patience), it's too little in volume to sustain the price of a supercap high enough to be a viable industry for manufacturers like Loney who need to sell their caps at proper profit. Also the fact you need Sov 4 for titans kinda limits the volume too. Ah, I always think of the supercap market in the same why I think of officer loot, over priced trinkets. ;) I don't combine it with the regular capital market. Dynasty Investments Manager Xabiers Capital Bond #1/2 (FINISHED) Xabiers Capital Bond #3/4
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2009.01.17 05:55:00 - [19] Originally by: Loney Originally by: Ray McCormack What makes you think anyone would invest in another of your offerings after the last debacle? Not exactally sure what "debacle" you are refereing too? The only two IPO's CyberDyne R-E offered "BOTH" closed early by a "VOTE" from the shareholders with a total "PAYOUT" of "MORE" isk then they invested! The only difference being that it was a "Certificate of Deposit or Bond" which you defaulted on. The bondholders had no other choice but to vote the way they did. [WTS] Tech II Component BPO Sets
Loney CyberDyne R-D	Posted - 2009.01.17 06:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Ray McCormack The only difference being that it was a "Certificate of Deposit or Bond" which you defaulted on. The bondholders had no other choice but to vote the way they did. Yes, CDRE defaulted (due to uncontrolable circumstances) hence "GIVING" the shareholders 3 seperate votes. I also admit the 3 votes that were given had very different exit plans. I have never disputed that the 43% profit mirgin was never met and was left only with 11.4% instead. What I am disputing is that this was no easy task, to pull off as we did and we NEVER ripped anyone off. We may have let some people down due by low returns, but hey **** happens its not like we wanted this to play out as it did. I know as one of the biggest investors you were dissiponted the most im sure. I'm sorry, I can't really do anything more then that. No hard feelings, Loney Check us out!

Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2009.01.17 06:31:00 - [21] Originally by: Loney I know as one of the biggest investors you were dissiponted the most im sure. I'm sorry, I can't really do anything more then that. Actually, I sold out to EMFI within the first month if I recall, there's a sales thread for them somewhere. But that's besides the point. You did rip people off by not honouring the original agreement, you cannot simply expect to walk easily in to another financial agreement without much more disclosure, assurances and humility. [WTS] Tech II Component BPO Sets
Loney CyberDyne R-D	Posted - 2009.01.17 07:08:00 - [22] Originally by: Ray McCormack You did rip people off by not honouring the original agreement, you cannot simply expect to walk easily in to another financial agreement without much more disclosure, assurances and humility. I agree, I do expect to recieve flack, humility, and evertyhing else because CDRD was unable to meet its goals that were promosed to the shareholders. Thanks again for creating this thread and gettign all the dirty laundry out for cleaning. This post will be added to our list of history on our main sales thread. But ripping people off is a "decision" that is made by a person with the "intent" to do harm to others... CDRD had no choice but to propose a vote with the 3 options that "clearly" outlined the corporations options. Do i expect poeple will be less willing to take such "risky" investments in the future... Yes. Do i expect people to still invest in any "real" CDRD projects (not mythical 1 tril ones)... Yes. Thanks for all your input so far. Check us out!
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2009.01.17 11:24:00 - [23] Originally by: Clair Bear And will you stop with the reprocessing hints already? Some of us are trying to make a killing here... Signed
Akira Na'Reece Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.27 17:05:00 - [24] Sorry to spike up this thread again, but for my clarification here, what are we saying? People invested. The plan wasn't met. Things got a little difficult. An agreement was reached (whether by vote or otherwise) And ALL investors got back their money PLUS some? Perhaps this is me being sily but with the current financial climate in RL, I think it's commendable that people got their payout. As in most situations I can imagine them not getting it. I for one would invest in a new venture.
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.01.27 17:26:00 - [25] Edited by: nether void on 27/01/2009 17:26:42 Originally by: Akira Na'Reece Sorry to spike up this thread again, but for my clarification here, what are we saying? People invested. The plan wasn't met. Things got a little difficult. An agreement was reached (whether by vote or otherwise) And ALL investors got back their money PLUS some? Perhaps this is me being sily but with the current financial climate in RL, I think it's commendable that people got their payout. As in most situations I can imagine them not getting it. I for one would invest in a new venture. In the real world when you consistently fail to meet your projections, they don't consider it a success. In fact, your stock will tank, and you will probably be bought out or at the very least the executive team will be replaced.
Ambo State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.01.27 17:42:00 - [26] Originally by: Akira Na'Reece Sorry to spike up this thread again, but for my clarification here, what are we saying? People invested. The plan wasn't met. Things got a little difficult. An agreement was reached (whether by vote or otherwise) And ALL investors got back their money PLUS some? Perhaps this is me being sily but with the current financial climate in RL, I think it's commendable that people got their payout. As in most situations I can imagine them not getting it. I for one would invest in a new venture. For me personally, the communication (or total lack thereof) was the biggest problem. The returns over the period of the investment were very bad, especially compared to expectations but as you say, there was still a profit made. However, there were some extenuating circumstances last time and I think Loney has learnt from the experience. Hence, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt this time around.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.01.27 17:47:00 - [27] Edited by: cosmoray on 27/01/2009 17:48:45 Originally by: Akira Na'Reece Sorry to spike up this thread again, but for my clarification here, what are we saying? People invested. The plan wasn't met. Things got a little difficult. An agreement was reached (whether by vote or otherwise) And ALL investors got back their money PLUS some? Perhaps this is me being sily but with the current financial climate in RL, I think it's commendable that people got their payout. As in most situations I can imagine them not getting it. I for one would invest in a new venture. Summary 1. Loney got lots of cash 70B 2. Promise of 43B in profits 3. No one heard what was happenning or knew what was going on 4. Loney appears after about 5 months with statements of doom 5. Loney offers vote of get your cash back + 11%, or maybe get it back much later (but unlikely) 6. people voted for return of cash 7. Loney took 6 months to buy back some of the shares Total promised = 113B Total received = 77B Those who got money back later earned about 1% per month. Would have made more money leaving it in EBANK, and you have access to funds. Loney doesn't need the cash I bet this pays nearer the minimum per month!
Akira Na'Reece Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.27 17:58:00 - [28] cosmoray, I'm not trying to suggest that the investment was a resounding success, but it doesn't sound like a total failure either. The communication being poor doesn't thrill me, but overall it's a learning curve, and we'll soon see what those involved have learned.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:04:00 - [29] Originally by: Akira Na'Reece cosmoray, I'm not trying to suggest that the investment was a resounding success, but it doesn't sound like a total failure either. The communication being poor doesn't thrill me, but overall it's a learning curve, and we'll soon see what those involved have learned. if there is one thing that MD does is reward failure. remember EBANK HAS to invest its capital. As the quality investments dry up EBANK will take lower returning investments in relation to their cost of capital. Their primary outlook: No loss of capital through business failure or SCAM Make profit above their cost of capital. Individual investors can be more picky about what they buy
ofstrife	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:20:00 - [30] Originally by: cosmoray if there is one thing that MD does is reward failure. I'm calling BS on this. MD doesn't directly reward failure, it's just got a collective short term memory because there aren't that many regulars who stick around for that long. There are those who stick around for longer periods of time (like you, and Ricdic, and Shar, and Hexxx (kinda)), who sit around in the back of the room *****ing about how dumb MD is. To put it nicely, there are better ways of getting your point across. The rest of your post is spot-on though.



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