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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Reid Lutman
Intaki Armaments Persona Non Gratis
2
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Posted - 2012.04.17 19:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm in a dread using 3500 quad siege artillery and i'm hitting a maelstrom at optimal with emp for about 600 (300 per turret) dmg per hit, in siege. This isn't normal.
Anyone else noticed this?
Sig radius affects a ships ability to hit a target. Are ccp now going to link dmg from turrets to sig radius as with missile launchers.
What logic is used for this? If a large shell hits something it's going to do big damage. I would be really unhappy if this change reachs tranquility.
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Bl4ck Ph03n1x
Burned Logic Circuit
0
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Posted - 2012.04.17 20:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Stupid questions, but: does the weapon "perfectly hit"? Have you took the resists in account? |
bornaa
GRiD.
215
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Posted - 2012.04.17 20:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
That's new way of calculating damage for XL weapons. BUT... it will be only for Titans. Patch so that its applied only when XL guns are fitted to Titan is coming tomorrow. That Ain't Right |
Missile War
Vita Aequitas Veritas The Paganism Alliance
22
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Posted - 2012.04.17 20:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
lol, i didn't hear of that nerf yet, that's just awesome |
Tanaka Aiko
ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation
68
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Posted - 2012.04.17 21:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
i though it was just an idea and they needed lots of time to make it happen ? |
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CCP Masterplan
C C P C C P Alliance
270
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Posted - 2012.04.18 10:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
In the current version on sisi, the damage reduction against smaller targets applies to all XL guns. We've a slightly newer version where the damage reduction only applies to XL guns when mounted on a Titan. This should be getting on to sisi later today.
The balancing discussion has been happening in this thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1149893#post1149893 "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law |
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Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
230
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Posted - 2012.04.18 10:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tanaka Aiko wrote:i though it was just an idea and they needed lots of time to make it happen ? ... yes, and thats what the test server is for... testing the ideas... |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
873
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Posted - 2012.04.18 11:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Or maybe we need XXL guns... (and XL/XXL sized rigs). |
Xeyena
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.04.18 13:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Why should dreads be able to blap subcaps either? All XL guns should have the same penalty, or we're just going to get "tracking dreads"... |
Aidamina Omen
Aperture Harmonics K162
8
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Posted - 2012.04.18 13:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Xeyena wrote:Why should dreads be able to blap subcaps either? All XL guns should have the same penalty, or we're just going to get "tracking dreads"...
Except that Dreads have like 1/10 of the EHP, and in order for them to do more DPS then the average battleship they need to enter Siege, which renders them immobile for 5 minutes, AND are unable receive repairs remotely.
Seems like a pretty good risk/reward balance to me; don't touch dreads, they are fine as is. |
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Krell Kroenen
Miners In Possession
22
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Posted - 2012.04.18 14:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Xeyena wrote:Why should dreads be able to blap subcaps either? All XL guns should have the same penalty, or we're just going to get "tracking dreads"...
This isn't improving Dread guns to do something new this just allows them to retain what they could already do. I don't recall seeing moans and tears about how Dreads are blaping subcaps have you?
Subcaps are not some endangered species like the spotted owl that needs to be handled with kid gloves and protected from threats that haven't even manifested themselves during all these years that Dreads have been around.
Perhaps in your idea world Subcaps and Caps shouldn't even be able to target each other. I am not sure what you really want but really shouting fire when there isn't even smoke just makes the rest of us wonder if you are playing the same game we are.
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
1194
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Posted - 2012.04.18 14:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Xeyena wrote:Why should dreads be able to blap subcaps either? All XL guns should have the same penalty, or we're just going to get "tracking dreads"...
If we apply it to dreads as well, it becomes very hard to deal with low-sig-radius (x-instinct+halo set+warfare links) carriers. |
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Tanaka Aiko
ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation
68
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Posted - 2012.04.18 14:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:Tanaka Aiko wrote:i though it was just an idea and they needed lots of time to make it happen ? ... yes, and thats what the test server is for... testing the ideas... of course, but i was talking about the time needed to code it... when i read it, it was like it would take ages to do it... and a week after it's done... o_O |
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
64
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Posted - 2012.04.18 17:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Xeyena wrote:Why should dreads be able to blap subcaps either? All XL guns should have the same penalty, or we're just going to get "tracking dreads"... If we apply it to dreads as well, it becomes very hard to deal with low-sig-radius (x-instinct+halo set+warfare links) carriers.
You ever considered making capitals ineligible of receiving bonuses from sub-caps? It would make supercaps substantially more vulnerable to enemy subcaps (reduced tank) whilst also preventing such ridiculous scenarios such as carriers getting under the guns of Dreadnoughts with ease, as well as Titans being able to reduce Citadel Torpedo damage substantially (e.g. 65% reduction by a Ragnarok that is self-boosting as well as being Loki boosted) simply be being aligned.
It would also make it worthwhile to fit Warfare Links on capitals, so that they can boost their peers, a bonus which I believe is almost never used presently. |
Demolishar
United Aggression
243
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Posted - 2012.04.18 17:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Xeyena wrote:Why should dreads be able to blap subcaps either? All XL guns should have the same penalty, or we're just going to get "tracking dreads"... If we apply it to dreads as well, it becomes very hard to deal with low-sig-radius (x-instinct+halo set+warfare links) carriers.
So it's okay that titans would be unable to hit those carriers? I thought titans were meant to be the cool new anti-capital weapon. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong White-Lotus
539
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Posted - 2012.04.18 19:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
I don't get it, wouldn't all of this be solved with sub system targeting for capital ships?
For instance you want that titan or dread with XL guns to do less damage? Take out it's targeting array. Then it does damage based on sig radius as well, until the timer is done and the ship can self repair the part.
The catch? the sig radius of the targeting array is so small only cruiser and smaller can hit it.
You take this to it's extreme and capitals have 3/4 subsystems to target. Each of them taking out some core function making smaller ships useful in battle verus cap ships. The main counter to these new OP cruisers? Battleships will deal with them.
In which case how do you deal with the frigate which are hitting the even smaller sub systems? easy, get some destroyers and cruisers to take out the frigates. Give every class class a role versus capital ships and all of these capital ship balance issues would be finished. |
lolcorpholder alt
ebil piwates inc.
2
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Posted - 2012.04.18 19:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:I don't get it, wouldn't all of this be solved with sub system targeting for capital ships?
For instance you want that titan or dread with XL guns to do less damage? Take out it's targeting array. Then it does damage based on sig radius as well, until the timer is done and the ship can self repair the part.
The catch? the sig radius of the targeting array is so small only cruiser and smaller can hit it.
You take this to it's extreme and capitals have 3/4 subsystems to target. Each of them taking out some core function making smaller ships useful in battle verus cap ships. The main counter to these new OP cruisers? Battleships will deal with them.
In which case how do you deal with the frigate which are hitting the even smaller sub systems? easy, get some destroyers and cruisers to take out the frigates. Give every class class a role versus capital ships and all of these capital ship balance issues would be finished.
:effort: |
fab24
Tax Fraud Corporation
10
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Posted - 2012.04.18 21:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
So first you make them unable to DD subcaps (k, that's pretty normal) Then you cut their tank. Then you remove their targeting abilities. Then you remove their tracking. Then you remove their damage.
I mean... Seriously? |
TheButcherPete
Specter Syndicate CORE Alliance
127
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Posted - 2012.04.18 21:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Aidamina Omen wrote:Xeyena wrote:Why should dreads be able to blap subcaps either? All XL guns should have the same penalty, or we're just going to get "tracking dreads"... Except that Dreads have like 1/10 of the EHP, and in order for them to do more DPS then the average battleship they need to enter Siege, which renders them immobile for 5 minutes, AND are unable receive repairs remotely. Seems like a pretty good risk/reward balance to me; don't touch dreads, they are fine as is.
agreed. My moncole doubles as a cigarette lighter, a flashlight, a laser and x-ray goggles. If you haven't noticed yet, I'm in love with Punkturis. -á-á-á
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Tarn Kugisa
Space Mongolian Pinked
69
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Posted - 2012.04.18 22:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Xeyena wrote:Why should dreads be able to blap subcaps either? All XL guns should have the same penalty, or we're just going to get "tracking dreads"... If we apply it to dreads as well, it becomes very hard to deal with low-sig-radius (x-instinct+halo set+warfare links) carriers.
Scary BS-Sized Carriers? I Endorse this Product and/or Service [url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16580[/url] |
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Chuc Morris
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.04.19 14:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
fab24 wrote:So first you make them unable to DD subcaps (k, that's pretty normal) Then you cut their tank. Then you remove their targeting abilities. Then you remove their tracking. Then you remove their damage.
I mean... Seriously?
Seems legit to me
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ivar R'dhak
STK Scientific
38
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Posted - 2012.04.19 17:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Not a big fan of Titans but this is getting ridiculous.
Just take away the damn gun slots and make them all missile slots. Give them a new "mini doomsday" mod so they can instead fit multiple of those(properly nerfed compared to the regular d.day) to use for guns. |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
129
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Posted - 2012.04.20 18:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
sig and turrets have always been related. Though was target resolution, the ability to hit accurately when tracking. Not sure the xl change, but target resolution has always been there. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
270
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Posted - 2012.04.21 16:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
fab24 wrote:So first you make them unable to DD subcaps (k, that's pretty normal) Then you cut their tank. Then you remove their targeting abilities. Then you remove their tracking. Then you remove their damage.
I mean... Seriously?
They should never have been combat ships, the simple fact CCP continuously need to nerf them further proves that. Titans should have been POS-like operated mobile stations from day 0.
CCP Greyscale wrote:Xeyena wrote:Why should dreads be able to blap subcaps either? All XL guns should have the same penalty, or we're just going to get "tracking dreads"... If we apply it to dreads as well, it becomes very hard to deal with low-sig-radius (x-instinct+halo set+warfare links) carriers.
So why not do something about low-sig-radius carriers instead. Dreads should be anti-structure and anti-cap (and they're great at it) not roflstomping battleships as well. That's what fighters should be for. CCP, fix the forum's image tags http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á visit at http://bit.ly/wdatt |
Izuru Hishido
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering Violent Society
13
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Posted - 2012.04.22 03:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:They should never have been combat ships, the simple fact CCP continuously need to nerf them further proves that. Titans should have been POS-like operated mobile stations from day 0.
Yes, yes, a thousand times, yes. The titans never deserved to be a combat ship, they deserved to sit in the damn towers and just issue out bonuses. When CCP saw that enough titans were able to AOE DD carriers instantly, they should have realized 'wait, this is completely broken' and pulled all their combat capabilities. Give them a limited jump range, yes, but a longer bridge range, a major bonus to links (and don't tie it down to only armor or shield or any of that crap per titan) and so on, then this problem solves itself.
Titan - Guns - DD = Fixed.
Titans should have just been super-sized command ships, i.e. triple-quadruple the size of the SMA's and corp hangars, give them role bonuses as FLEET BOOSTERS since they get the natural bonuses to that **** already, and just nuke their guns and remove the DD. Yes, people would *****, but it'd be far less than this catastrostorm of complaining that we've got now.
That said, there's one factor that most people seem to be missing in this thread. XL turret tracking is being cut in half, but as a consolation prize, siege tracking penalties will be removed. I don't know if any or all of you missed that memo, but as far as I know, that will be happening. It might not be active on sisi right now, but it probably will be either later this mirror or at the latest, next mirror.
As for the people worried about being tracked by a dreadnought, if you're on the field with a dread and you get hit for full damage, you're doing something wrong. Fix it, there's an insanely easy solution that doesn't involve forums.
Oh, and for the record, it was always possible to have 'super tracking dreads' Xeyena, they just never got used on TQ because the fits gimped the dread horridly. |
Soldarius
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
207
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Posted - 2012.04.23 08:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
Last time I checked, all turrets have a signature resolution which is compared to the signature radius of the target in the damage formula. So, working as intended. I will grant that it is entirely possible the actual numbers may have been tweaked. "How do you kill that which has no life?" |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
80
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Posted - 2012.04.23 17:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:I don't get it, wouldn't all of this be solved with sub system targeting for capital ships?
For instance you want that titan or dread with XL guns to do less damage? Take out it's targeting array. Then it does damage based on sig radius as well, until the timer is done and the ship can self repair the part.
The catch? the sig radius of the targeting array is so small only cruiser and smaller can hit it.
You take this to it's extreme and capitals have 3/4 subsystems to target. Each of them taking out some core function making smaller ships useful in battle verus cap ships. The main counter to these new OP cruisers? Battleships will deal with them.
In which case how do you deal with the frigate which are hitting the even smaller sub systems? easy, get some destroyers and cruisers to take out the frigates. Give every class class a role versus capital ships and all of these capital ship balance issues would be finished. Sure I'll just code that right up for you, ready for testing it in 30 min yeh? |
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
83
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Posted - 2012.04.24 11:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Dreads are completely unchanged if you ignore out of siege DPS. To copy my reddit post:
Chance to hit = .5^((((Transversal speed/(Range to target * Turret Tracking))*(Turret Signature Resolution / Target Signature Radius))2) + ((max(0, Range To Target - Turret Optimal Range))/Turret Falloff)2)
From: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage
Basically, they just multiplied the top and bottom of a fraction by 2
Current: (Turret Tracking x 2 and Signature Radius by 2). Ignoring the rest of the equation, chance to hit = .5(Turret Signature RadiusTarget Radial Velocity/(Tracking SpeedTarget Signature Radius))
New (Turret Tracking x 2 and Signature Radius by 2): Ignoring the rest of the equation, chance to hit = .5(2Turret Signature RadiusTarget Radial Velocity/(2Tracking SpeedTarget Signature Radius))
The 2's cancel out. So dreads only lose DPS out of siege.
Also for all the dread on BS haters, your Megathron should never hit a webbed and painted thorax, especially while you essentially warp scramble yourself and sit still for 5 minutes.
Dreads still take forever to lock (that nerf did not go through on titans from what I read), still hit like old dreads (not old titans, the things everyone had a problem with), and still have to deal with siege. That "forever to lock" bit means a lot more given the limit on locked targets (2 or 3, depending on skills) for dreads than it does for titans (3, but you can lock a ton faster).
I still think that Titans should be given XXL weapons, so you can try to follow a general "1 size down and webbed" rule, with the definition of "webbed dread" being sitting still and little transversal. |
ViRUS Pottage
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3
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Posted - 2012.04.24 18:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
TheButcherPete wrote:Hey, don't blame the Titan. Blame the fact that powerblocs obtain them so easily.
It's not the power blocs fault that CCP can't properly maintain the game. If they kept supers and titans tracked and did something about it BEFORE 80 titans could be fielded by a single alliance we wouldn't have this problem right now. |
ViRUS Pottage
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3
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Posted - 2012.04.24 18:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:[quote=fab24]They should never have been combat ships, the simple fact CCP continuously need to nerf them further proves that. Titans should have been POS-like operated mobile stations from day 0.
1/10 |
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