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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 11 post(s)
Tuttomenui II Gallente Byrds Research And Development	Posted - 2009.01.18 07:04:00 - [31] Edited by: Tuttomenui II on 18/01/2009 07:05:08 Originally by: Qordel Also, the ESRB is entirely voluntary, so anyone (in America, at least) that suggests to you that it is "illegal" for a retail store to sell a minor an M-rated game is ignorant and full of crap. I got carded by the idiot at the mall when I bought GTA 2, yes GTA 2 (TWO).. I bought it when i was 17 or 18. Being carded for a game was hilarious. oh BTW I live in america. Also when i was 20 I worked at a place that had 14-15 year olds working there to and a girl had me buy a cd for her cause it was parent advisory and she was worried they wouldnt sell it to her, being that she was 14. Incase your wondering, I dont buy alcohol for miners, or cigerettes, I stop at cds and video games. As far as legality, Im not sure. I think the *** at the mall carded me cause he could not really cause he had to. ^^ My Signiture is an actual Signiture WOW!!!^^**
Farrellus Cameron Sturmgrenadier Inc Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.01.18 10:39:00 - [32] Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Qordel However, they are publishing - through ATARI - a physical version of the product in retail stores where the little ESRB rating on the box means something. We will find a better place for this notice, but it is not going away. EVE Online is both ESRB and PEGI rated and ESRB has certain requirements that we must fulfill for physical distribution. You should put it in small print at the bottom of the display, not in big annoying print at the top. ----------------------------------------------------

CCP Whisper	Posted - 2009.01.18 11:23:00 - [33] Originally by: Farrellus Cameron You should put it in small print at the bottom of the display, not in big annoying print at the top. The guidelines we need to follow require the use of certain font sizes and placement. For instance putting it in the EULA is not enough. You need to see the warning before login of every single game session. Not complying with the regulations means fines and the risk of the certification being withdrawn and the subsequent recall from shelves by major retailers. Computer Entertainment Retail Operations: Definitely not all fun and games.

Feilamya Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.01.18 11:40:00 - [34] Originally by: Qordel The ESRB is a ratings organization that publishers voluntarily submit their games to. CCP tries to aim for a TEEN rating by ESRB, which means that the content is less mature than, say, Fable II, which is a Mature rated console game in which you can beat your kids, have sex, cheat on your wife, have a same-sex partner and beat your children. But apparently teenagers are old enough to become criminals. Unlike most other games, EVE does not reward you for killing (which is OK in western culture, except in Germany) but teaches you about risk and reward, how to scam, how to fake your identity and other stuff that helps if you choose a more ... interesting carreer irl.
Shevar Minmatar Target Practise Incorporated	Posted - 2009.01.18 11:59:00 - [35] Originally by: CCP Whisper Originally by: Farrellus Cameron You should put it in small print at the bottom of the display, not in big annoying print at the top. The guidelines we need to follow require the use of certain font sizes and placement. For instance putting it in the EULA is not enough. You need to see the warning before login of every single game session. Not complying with the regulations means fines and the risk of the certification being withdrawn and the subsequent recall from shelves by major retailers. Computer Entertainment Retail Operations: Definitely not all fun and games. Why don't I remember seeing this warning with WoW then? --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs

CCP Explorer	Posted - 2009.01.18 12:06:00 - [36] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Can you throw the ERSB notice either in the splash screen or the "about" section of the escape menu? We can't place it in the ESC menu given the specific requirements from ESRB on font size and notice placement. This notice will move to the lower left corner of the login screen in the next expansion.


CCP Explorer	Posted - 2009.01.18 12:09:00 - [37] Originally by: Shevar Why don't I remember seeing this warning with WoW then? You are not looking hard enough. Lower left corner here.

Shevar Minmatar Target Practise Incorporated	Posted - 2009.01.18 12:11:00 - [38] Edited by: Shevar on 18/01/2009 12:14:05 Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Shevar Why don't I remember seeing this warning with WoW then? You are not looking hard enough. Lower left corner here. Nope says pegi 12+ for me.

CCP Whisper	Posted - 2009.01.18 12:12:00 - [39] Edited by: CCP Whisper on 18/01/2009 12:12:19 Originally by: Shevar Why don't I remember seeing this warning with WoW then? It's there. Lower left-hand corner. Edit: Beaten by Explorer...but only because I took the time to draw in an arrow.


CCP Whisper	Posted - 2009.01.18 12:15:00 - [40] Originally by: Shevar Nope says pegi 12+ for me. That's probably because you are using a European version of WoW or connecting to a European server. No clue how Blizzard handles that. But as far as I know we do not have to display the PEGI rating, only the ESRB one.



CCP Explorer	Posted - 2009.01.18 12:17:00 - [41] Originally by: CCP Whisper Originally by: Shevar Nope says pegi 12+ for me. That's probably because you are using a European version of WoW or connecting to a European server. No clue how Blizzard handles that. But as far as I know we do not have to display the PEGI rating, only the ESRB one. WoW is sharded and they have different clients for different servers based on geographic regions. EVE is a single universe, single server and we have a single client (in two art content editions).


CCP Whisper	Posted - 2009.01.18 12:19:00 - [42] Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: CCP Whisper Originally by: Shevar Nope says pegi 12+ for me. That's probably because you are using a European version of WoW or connecting to a European server. No clue how Blizzard handles that. But as far as I know we do not have to display the PEGI rating, only the ESRB one. WoW is sharded and they have different clients for different servers based on geographic regions. EVE is a single universe, single server and we have a single client (in two art content editions). ...and now I know. And knowing is half the battle.

MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.01.18 12:26:00 - [43] Originally by: CCP Whisper Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: CCP Whisper Originally by: Shevar Nope says pegi 12+ for me. That's probably because you are using a European version of WoW or connecting to a European server. No clue how Blizzard handles that. But as far as I know we do not have to display the PEGI rating, only the ESRB one. WoW is sharded and they have different clients for different servers based on geographic regions. EVE is a single universe, single server and we have a single client (in two art content editions). ...and now I know. And knowing is half the battle. whats the other half?
Shevar Minmatar Target Practise Incorporated	Posted - 2009.01.18 12:28:00 - [44] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: CCP Whisper Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: CCP Whisper That's probably because you are using a European version of WoW or connecting to a European server. No clue how Blizzard handles that. But as far as I know we do not have to display the PEGI rating, only the ESRB one. WoW is sharded and they have different clients for different servers based on geographic regions. EVE is a single universe, single server and we have a single client (in two art content editions). ...and now I know. And knowing is half the battle. whats the other half? Probably involves forks and eyes. But yes I do play on a Euro server, but anyhow how about using all the extra cash we Euro's provide with our stable currency for a nice shiny ESBR'less login screen?
Asestorian Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.18 12:29:00 - [45] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: CCP Whisper ...and now I know. And knowing is half the battle. whats the other half? Guns. And bombs.

CCP Whisper	Posted - 2009.01.18 12:29:00 - [46] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: CCP Whisper ...and now I know. And knowing is half the battle. whats the other half? Superior firepower. Or a well bribed traitor if that's more your thing.

Lord Windu Echelon Holdings Echelon.	Posted - 2009.01.18 13:18:00 - [47] Originally by: CCP Whisper Edited by: CCP Whisper on 18/01/2009 12:12:19 Originally by: Shevar Why don't I remember seeing this warning with WoW then? It's there. Lower left-hand corner. You have a wow client? A DEV plays WoW? I sure hope to god that you don't have that filth installed at the CCP offices. March expansion update- Eve will now have Dungeons and players will be able to play musical instruments thanks to Whisper
Dmian Gallente Gallenterrorisme	Posted - 2009.01.18 13:18:00 - [48] As a father and Eve player, I fully support PEGI and ESRB rating, though my son is only 4 at the moment. But those ratings are great guides to the content you are purchasing. Then you, as a father, decide what you allow your children to see or not.
Alex Raptos Caldari The Firestorm Millennium	Posted - 2009.01.18 13:19:00 - [49] Originally by: CCP Whisper Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: CCP Whisper ...and now I know. And knowing is half the battle. whats the other half? Superior firepower. Or a well bribed traitor if that's more your thing. You have spies in Blizzard, C/d?
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.18 13:43:00 - [50] Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE has had a ESRB and PEGI rating since release I believe, as it was originally sold in stores back then. The ratings didn't go away but were less important when we only had digital distribution. While there are no legal requirements to have a rating most stores won't sell a game without one, and many stores won't sell games above Teen rated ones, or at least Mature rated ones. Personally I don't think ratings are such a bad thing, at least for parents with kids. I agree that voluntary ratings systems are reasonable so that people can help choose what kind of content they want to let their children consume, but not at the expense of other free adults who have the right to choose what content they want to consume. Unfortunately, that is exactly what these voluntary ratings accomplish, because when making content for a game you are forced to constrain it to certain levels fit to reach that demographic audience in a way deemed acceptable by the ratings board, rather than just making great content and letting people decide for themselves directly what they do and do not want. There are AO ratings for adults, but nobody sells those, because of the 'stigma'. So the voluntary rating strips away an entire layer of entertainment for people who aren't twelve years old (because retailers usually won't stock AO and developers therefore won't produce AO games). Sure, it's a business decision. It's just unfortunate that those of us in our 20s, 30s and 40s are subject to content that is filtered voluntarily by a publisher and developer to the level of a thirteen year old kid to meet a voluntary rating so that it can be voluntarily sold in retail stores. Imagine if all the great R movies you love were voluntarily stripped of the content that made them R so that they could be marketed and sold to thirteen year old kids? Let the adults have their entertainment. Let the kids have theirs. EVE has an older playerbase, I believe, and it seems aiming for a Mature rating would be more reasonable. After all, how many 13, 14, 15 and 16 year olds are playing the game? Is it truly worth voluntarily restricting the content of a game to reach those people? Hell, Fable II has all sorts of mature content (which is part of what makes it such a quirky game). It's M and it sells pretty well. Sure, where EVE is involved it is a minor nitpick. I'm just saying that it isn't so voluntary as you suggest. As you yourself said, it's hard to get a game sold in a retail without being rated by the ESRB. Therefore, it is voluntary in theory but mandatory in practice. I happen to think that there is a great deal of opportunity for an MMO that caters entirely to the mature players (even though some of us in EVE are not so terribly mature at times, despite our chronological age). Hell, imagine the marketing you could do by aiming for an 'M' and setting yourself apart. Anyway, it doesn't matter in the large picture view of things, I suppose. Just sayin' . . . --

Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.18 13:51:00 - [51] Originally by: Tuttomenui II Edited by: Tuttomenui II on 18/01/2009 07:05:08 Originally by: Qordel Also, the ESRB is entirely voluntary, so anyone (in America, at least) that suggests to you that it is "illegal" for a retail store to sell a minor an M-rated game is ignorant and full of crap. I got carded by the idiot at the mall when I bought GTA 2, yes GTA 2 (TWO).. I bought it when i was 17 or 18. Being carded for a game was hilarious. oh BTW I live in america. Also when i was 20 I worked at a place that had 14-15 year olds working there to and a girl had me buy a cd for her cause it was parent advisory and she was worried they wouldnt sell it to her, being that she was 14. Incase your wondering, I dont buy alcohol for miners, or cigerettes, I stop at cds and video games. As far as legality, Im not sure. I think the ***** at the mall carded me cause he could not really cause he had to. There are no laws in America which forbid selling any videogame to anyone of any age. The two major laws (including the one in California, signed by Schwarzenegger) have been struck down as unconstitutional. The other one resulted in the state having to pay money to some software association for unfairly limiting their sales. Ratings are voluntary. Period. The reason stores will card you has nothing to do with the law, but with company policy. That company policy exists because they don't want to deal with angry parents who can't control their kids. Parents whose children somehow got hold of $65 and walked into a store and bought a game with a bare breast in it (remember, violence is largely okay in a Teen title - it's dirty filthy flesh that must be prohibited!). If ratings must exist, then they should be used to guide the consumer into choosing their content and not used to prevent certain people - regardless of age - from purchasing whatever content they want. Unfortunately, parents tend to be a bit ignorant and reactionary so the only way to deal with them is to just adhere to the voluntary ratings on the box as if it were law. Otherwise you're going to have CliffyB standing in front of Congress with Henry Jenkins (that great MIT professor who has defended goths, videogamers, etc with his excellent arguments and logic for many years now) -- all because some busy body group of bothers has accused the videogame industry of turning their precious little children into satanists or something. But I guarantee that the ratings are entirely voluntary (in theory a least) and there is no law involved in the ratings or the refusal to sell certain content to certain age groups. The ESRB even states this on their own site Sadly, it seems like the entire world will eventually be nerfed so that all content meets the approval of parents for consumption by their little Johnny. Hope the rest of us dont' mind Sponge Bob. --
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.18 14:00:00 - [52] Originally by: Dmian As a father and Eve player, I fully support PEGI and ESRB rating, though my son is only 4 at the moment. But those ratings are great guides to the content you are purchasing. Then you, as a father, decide what you allow your children to see or not. Agreed. It's reasonable to want something that gives you a rough idea of what content is in something since you may want to buy something for a child and you don't want to have to sit down and play through it or watch the entire movie or listen to the entire CD. As long as it remains a GUIDELINE. Unfortunately, in practice, it actually limits everyone. As i explained in my reply to Wrangler, these voluntary ratings for parents end up being implemented in an "you can not buy this because of your age" rule in the store. Even though there isn't any law requiring it. And that would be okay, too, except that to be put on retail shelves, retailers demand that you adhere to these voluntary labels. And once you are labeled, you suddenly have to fit into a neat little category. It means that except for a few exceptions, content is dumbed down so that it meets the approval for play by, say, a twelve or thirteen year old. Because of marketing. Because of retail space. And it means that AO content flat out will never exist. So in a roundabout way, to "protect" your four year old kid, the content a 30 year old man plays has to be fitting for a thirteen year old kid. People don't just create compelling content and let it be what it is naturally. They have to be aware of every bit of content they're creating and think "is this acceptable in most people's minds for a thirteen year old?". Sometimes, as an adult, you just want to be able to have content that is aimed at you. You don't want to have everything covered in rounded soft corners just to avoid having some busy body freak out because she ignored the content and let her ten year old play a game filled with brutal decapitations or drugs or sexual references or "intense moments".
Astarte Nosferatu Minmatar Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.18 14:01:00 - [53] It is really sad that it are the non-gamers telling us gamers what content should be allowed in games, what kind of games can or cannot be sold in stores, and essentially what kind of games can be made or not. The whole rating system is designed to please the non-gaming parents and game-hating community. Sure, voluntary guidelines are good, but not when their effective control over a large part of the market has such constrictive results.
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2009.01.18 14:10:00 - [54] Originally by: CCP Whisper Edited by: CCP Whisper on 18/01/2009 12:12:19 Originally by: Shevar Why don't I remember seeing this warning with WoW then? It's there. Lower left-hand corner. Edit: Beaten by Explorer...but only because I took the time to draw in an arrow. And now we know that CCP play WoW. Incoming whinestorm from many alts imminent.

CCP Whisper	Posted - 2009.01.18 14:15:00 - [55] Originally by: Gnomes Rock And now we know that CCP play WoW. Incoming whinestorm from many alts imminent. Google is such an amazing tool.

Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.18 14:16:00 - [56] Originally by: Gnomes Rock Originally by: CCP Whisper Edited by: CCP Whisper on 18/01/2009 12:12:19 Originally by: Shevar Why don't I remember seeing this warning with WoW then? It's there. Lower left-hand corner. Edit: Beaten by Explorer...but only because I took the time to draw in an arrow. And now we know that CCP play WoW. Incoming whinestorm from many alts imminent. I would expect that many from CCP play countless MMOs so that they know what the competition is doing and can have insight into new mechanics and ideas that others may be implementing and how the playerbase is responding to it. That's why the Jove are going to look like Tauren.
Nikita Alterana Gallente The Antikythera Mechanism	Posted - 2009.01.18 14:17:00 - [57] walmart sells M rated games...what are you guys talking about?
ceaon Gallente Porandor	Posted - 2009.01.18 14:33:00 - [58] can you CCP add a thing like this "many eve-online players dont like wowkids so GTFO" on log in screen ? btw is against EULA to change that only on my login screen ?
Jack Gilligan Dragon's Rage KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.18 14:35:00 - [59] I'm not a fan of these ratings, which are arbitrary and potentially damaging to EVE. For instance, they may have to ALTER content in this game in order to get the "Tween" rating that practically everyone tries for, much as you don't often see rated R movies anymore, everything is PG-13. Content such as boosters (drugs, etc) might have to be taken out. Something similar happened to SWG, of course minor compared to the self-inflicted NGE gunshot wound, but they got rid of "spice" because of this. Spice is a drug in the "Star Wars" universe. Honestly, what does CCP hope to gain from putting boxes on shelves again? I don't see much coming from it. Most game stores these days (sadly) have little or no PC gaming section at all, as I found the other day when I stopped by the local gamestop to get a copy of Call of Duty World at War... I see retail as something that will end up being an expense rather than a gain. Atari also isn't exactly the most skilled of PC publishers, much as I hate to say that about a beloved old name. EVE has grown to be 2nd amongst all full subscription MMORPG's in the US and EU, a distant second to WOW, true, but a position of great success, surpassing companies FAR larger than CCP, such as SOE and NCSoft, and did this WITHOUT retail box distribution.
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.01.18 14:36:00 - [60] Originally by: Qordel Originally by: Reathena I see that the sarcasm was lost on some. I just do not like my entertainment labeled like a pack of cigarettes. What's next? "WARNING: Immersion in fantasy world may be hazardous to your mental health" ??? Puhleeeze! It's in the EULA - that should be enough - I don't want to see it every time I log in. point. My opinion. My desire. Only way to let CCP know about it is to cast my vote here. Silly us. You asked a question that you already knew the answer to and we answered it, not knowing you knew the answer. Including some sort of emphasis may have helped us understand that you were wasting our time asking a rhetorical question. Anyway, the ESRB is a bunch of **** suckers, but there's nothing we can do about it. Also, they've been putting warnings on entertainment for twenty years now. Remember the whole Twisted Sister debacle with Tipper Gore? That was the PMRC



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