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Time to bring EVE 1v1 pvp into modern age

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Victoria Ehr Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:58:00 - [1] Okay most of us have done it at some point with a friend or just for the hell of it. We exchange a can with a neutral so that we can shoot at each other. Why don't we just make an option allowing us click on someone you wish to Pvp against and propose a dual with that person who then has the option to either (auto decline pvp duals) or he can get a pop-up of the proposed dual and can accept or decline it. Most of the time people who want to dual have agreed to it via chat anyways. This not only makes pvp a bit easier for those not at war with each other or in the same corp. It increases ship losses, which increases market activity and it also gives players more options for fun consensual pvp which we (almost) all of us enjoy. Just an idea.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2009.01.19 08:20:00 - [2] Firstly it is "duel" not "dual". Secondly, you can already accomplish this, by flipping each others cans. Id rather CCP spend their time on more pressing issues. TL:DR = NO --
HawkBunny	Posted - 2009.01.19 08:30:00 - [3] what would really be so bad about it?
Isaac Starstriker Amarr Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.01.19 08:46:00 - [4] Originally by: HawkBunny what would really be so bad about it? WoW is that way ===========================> Want duels? They have tons there. CCP has more pressing issues than this. --Isaac
Grigo M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.01.19 10:33:00 - [5] Originally by: Treelox Firstly it is "duel" not "dual". Secondly, you can already accomplish this, by flipping each others cans. Id rather CCP spend their time on more pressing issues. TL:DR = NO actualy u can not duel farly...remove the posibility of remote rep/boosting on the dueling couple....and then u actualy have a fare 1vs1 pvp suported RO Originally by: Avernus ...some kudos to using your main to post like an asshat though... doesn't really take balls though, you're on the internet.
Ted Grayham	Posted - 2009.01.19 16:11:00 - [6]
Drake Draconis Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.01.19 16:54:00 - [7] Edited by: Drake Draconis on 19/01/2009 16:54:35 As it was already stated.... most duels are dishonored by interference or acts of cowardice... while I may not duel myself... I tend to refuse them because of that fact. Supported. If your going to duel... you fight to the death... and everyone else should stay the #### out of the way... short of watching. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.01.19 16:58:00 - [8] Edited by: Santiago Fahahrri on 19/01/2009 16:58:04 A duel is a contest of honor. If you have lowered yourself to dueling dishonorable opponents, the shame is yours. It is not neccessary to spend time developing game mechanics when combat is already allowable. I do not support. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Kade Jeekin Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2009.01.19 17:15:00 - [9] I guess you are just talking about hisec? CONCORD might allow it - for a price. A few million ISK, at least? And if you just want a dual without paying, then losec, or even nullsec, is thataway >>> Though to be honest I quite like the current can flagging method. More like a throwing down a gauntlet kind of thing. --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.01.19 17:46:00 - [10] I think the problem is not the ability to "Throw down" a challenge. Its interference... And asking them to go to LowSec/NullSec only compounds the problem.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.01.19 20:36:00 - [11] NPCs or magic buttons should enforce a "carebear pvp mode" in low sec and null sec. Players enforce the rules in low sec and null sec. If you don't like it then gtfo of low/null sec. If you want a "carebear pvp mode" in high sec then you solved the problem yourself, use can aggro mechanics. An arena setup so that players can create a tournament easily for their corp/alliance for ****s and giggles would be nice, but you are blatantly asking for a carebear World of Warcraft mechanic to be added into EVE so my standard "GTFO of EVE" response applies.
Victoria Ehr Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.19 21:44:00 - [12] Originally by: Vaal Erit NPCs or magic buttons should enforce a "carebear pvp mode" in low sec and null sec. Players enforce the rules in low sec and null sec. If you don't like it then gtfo of low/null sec. If you want a "carebear pvp mode" in high sec then you solved the problem yourself, use can aggro mechanics. An arena setup so that players can create a tournament easily for their corp/alliance for ****s and giggles would be nice, but you are blatantly asking for a carebear World of Warcraft mechanic to be added into EVE so my standard "GTFO of EVE" response applies. Well gee Vaal, you're about as bad at subject comprehension as I am at spelling. All I am proposing is an alternative to can flipping. Two people in high sec want to throw down, instead of flipping cans; have a scroll down option where you can request a pvp flag with the other ship, which can then be accepted or denied by that ships player. Can flipping works too, I am just throwing out an idea to make the process a bit more streamlined. So Vaal Ert how am I asking for a carebear world or warcraft mechanic again? Lets meet sometime and go flip cans with each other mmk? -------------------------------------------- Glory to the State and Tibus Heth.
Cpt Jagermeister Leather Roughnecks	Posted - 2009.01.19 23:35:00 - [13] I think it should allow pvp between the 2 parties for their current ships only. This way someone doesn't accept and go grab a bigger ship etc. On another note, wtf is wrong with you people? This is a decent and simple little idea to make the game just a bit better.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.01.20 02:49:00 - [14] Underhanded stuff makes EVE EVE. Removing that is bad. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.01.20 03:14:00 - [15] Relying on game mechanics to set up "safe" fights sounds like every MMO I gave up on.. it ain't Eve.
HawkBunny	Posted - 2009.01.20 06:43:00 - [16] Edited by: HawkBunny on 20/01/2009 06:42:59 Originally by: Isaac Starstriker Originally by: HawkBunny what would really be so bad about it? WoW is that way ===========================> Want duels? They have tons there. CCP has more pressing issues than this. --Isaac You really need to learn to insult someone better. Maybe a your momma joke. WoW has 1 million subs it is possible there are game mechanics in WoW that are gasp good. While I would never want eve to turn into a WoW clone. I still would like to have a 1v1 pvp fight or tournament style fight if i wanted to instead of getting jump and poped like a school girl from those meanie pirates. I am no game dev but i am still pretty sure it wouldn't be that hard to make this happen. And for some reason i think it might help eve in some way possibly by accepting change instead of hiding from it like i do sun light. And while i do accept that i will be flamed for this. Think about this on the WoW forums that's all they ever do is complain and flame each other . But please if u do flame me try to do a good job kthxbye.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.01.20 08:42:00 - [17] Originally by: Victoria Ehr Well gee Vaal, you're about as bad at subject comprehension as I am at spelling. All I am proposing is an alternative to can flipping. Two people in high sec want to throw down, instead of flipping cans; have a scroll down option where you can request a pvp flag with the other ship, which can then be accepted or denied by that ships player. Can flipping works too, I am just throwing out an idea to make the process a bit more streamlined. So Vaal Ert how am I asking for a carebear world or warcraft mechanic again? Lets meet sometime and go flip cans with each other mmk? Maybe you should train Basic Reading to level 1? "Duel PvP flags" are a very popular World of Warcraft and WoW clone mechanic. Sorry if you are clueless to one of the most popular video games ever, but I like to know what I am talking about. What I am against, is the IMMUNITY from interference from other players while "dueling" in low/null sec. The whole point of EVE, what makes it different from any WoW clone is that you are free to do what you want, which most certainly includes disrupting other people's business. What you propose is a restriction on this freedom by making it so you cannot interfere with "duels" in low/null sec. This is against one of the primary concepts of EVE: non-consensual combat. As for your bravado, I have no fear of noob MM drake pilot #146731. I don't even have to look at your killboard. You are MM/ex-bruce + you are whining about non-consensual PvP = you fly a drake. I have heard your whine before and it is pathetic. I do not "duel" people in high sec space, I do things like ohhh say help kick your previous worthless alliance out of fountain. "Duels" in high sec space are completely useless to the game. They do not properly mimic low/null sec combat so they are useless for training. Streamlining the process is useless, it is already streamlined. You warp to a planet/safespot and drop a can with 1 ammo; other play picks up 1 piece of ammo and you get to your carebear ranges and carebear each other to half armor and pretend like you are relevant to anything. I have already briefly gone over what I would like a tournament style of combat to be in EVE which would include gasp 1v1 "duels". Your idea would bring nothing to the game. If you came up with an idea that would improve the game, I would certainly support it, but stealing a carebear feature from World of Warcraft and blindly wanting it thrust into EVE is a terrible idea and you should be flamed a lot worse than you actually are. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
HawkBunny	Posted - 2009.01.20 09:34:00 - [18] Vaal he/she has said that it is high sec only there is no way this would ever work in null/low sec. And i know ccp would never do that. This is a high sec only option so we can have some fun duals and lose ships for lol's. And Victoria could u edit your first post to show that is high sec only so people do not get confused again. Thanks ^_^.
Bunyip	Posted - 2009.01.20 10:50:00 - [19] Hey guys, I¦m still in Reykjavik, but I did receive some good news from the developers. It sounds as if you might soon get your wish. Since I¦m constrained by the NDA, I can¦t go into details about their rough plans, but suffice it to say that your pleas have not fallen on deaf ears.
Jaina Proudmoar Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.20 10:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Bunyip Hey guys, I¦m still in Reykjavik, but I did receive some good news from the developers. It sounds as if you might soon get your wish. Since I¦m constrained by the NDA, I can¦t go into details about their rough plans, but suffice it to say that your pleas have not fallen on deaf ears. Oh crap. WoW in space anyone? :/
HawkBunny	Posted - 2009.01.20 11:51:00 - [21] Originally by: Bunyip Hey guys, I¦m still in Reykjavik, but I did receive some good news from the developers. It sounds as if you might soon get your wish. Since I¦m constrained by the NDA, I can¦t go into details about their rough plans, but suffice it to say that your pleas have not fallen on deaf ears. Thanks Bunyip I just hope its contained in high sec only and that low/0.0 can still be ganked while in a dual.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.01.20 20:05:00 - [22] Serious Pwnage happening here.
Agent Unknown Fist of Eargon	Posted - 2009.01.20 20:32:00 - [23] I've only PvP'd once against someone else, and it was a learning experience for me. We didn't fight to the death for honor or whatever; he was teaching people how to properly fight and how to fit your ship (his shield tank was insane, btw). The only issue with new things: people will try to exploit it. While I'm not exactly sure how PvP flagging would open up exploits, I'm sure some people will figure it out. And when that happens, the devs will have yet more work ...bah... I'll give my support as well, although I don't PvP... ----------------------------------- "What can go wrong, will go wrong."
Ignition SemperFi Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.01.20 20:58:00 - [24] Originally by: Bunyip Hey guys, I¦m still in Reykjavik, but I did receive some good news from the developers. It sounds as if you might soon get your wish. Since I¦m constrained by the NDA, I can¦t go into details about their rough plans, but suffice it to say that your pleas have not fallen on deaf ears. are you FFING serious.... whos pleas, more carebear hellokitty idiots. please find a bridge ingame and jump off it
Dotard Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.01.21 02:04:00 - [25] lol?
Victoria Ehr Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.01.22 08:54:00 - [26] Edited by: Victoria Ehr on 22/01/2009 08:57:46 bump in HIGH SEC Begging all of your pardons. Since nobody flips cans for pvp in lowsec and nulsec I didn't really think to point out what i meant. But that is my mistake just as much as my spelling errors, K. I am talking about an alternative to "flipping cans for pvp in high sec" and allowing for a interface option. Thanks to all the thumb uppers! -------------------------------------------- Glory to the State and Tibus Heth.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.01.22 11:01:00 - [27] Originally by: HawkBunny Vaal he/she has said that it is high sec only there is no way this would ever work in null/low sec. And i know ccp would never do that. This is a high sec only option so we can have some fun duals and lose ships for lol's. And Victoria could u edit your first post to show that is high sec only so people do not get confused again. Thanks ^_^. Yes, high security space is completely different. High sec only is fine. As long as ship loss is incurred. In other MMOs the losing player does a kneel or bow or whatever and no one ever dies. If this "duel" stopped the fight at 1 structure that would be terrible. Still, if you are allowing "duels" I would rather have an arena setting where you could easily make small tournaments blah blah blah I think I've gone over it already. Considering the amount of time spent traveling, fitting and stuff to get to high sec to arrange a "duel" is spending 10 seconds to setup can aggro really that difficult? Also consider that it will take 10 seconds to right click on your opponent and send a "duel" invite and then he has to accept it, you are basically spending the same amount of mouse clicks/time so I don't exactly see the issue that needs CCPs attention. Also, now everyone is inconvenienced with having to shut off duel invites whenever they make a new character or wipe out their cache. Lastly, if two new players want to "duel" they ask someone and they quickly learn about stealing and can aggro mechanics which is a good thing. Too many negatives for a meaningless mechanic. Roll eyes at Bunyips comment, god now you have us all scared. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Kuranta Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.22 11:13:00 - [28] Originally by: Bunyip Hey guys, I¦m still in Reykjavik, but I did receive some good news from the developers. It sounds as if you might soon get your wish. Since I¦m constrained by the NDA, I can¦t go into details about their rough plans, but suffice it to say that your pleas have not fallen on deaf ears. Please - PLEASE tell me that you're joking. That would be against one of the core elements of EVE.
Bunyip	Posted - 2009.01.22 13:03:00 - [29] Guys, you're judging something you don't know anything about. It's not the end of the world for Eve. I can't say anything, but please don't judge it before it occurs. It's not how you would probably envision it. Wait until the dev blog, then give feedback. I can say that the CSM was almost unanimous in our concern for the effects of this patch, but CCP has their act together. Please wait and see. "May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table.
Kuranta Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.22 14:27:00 - [30] Originally by: Bunyip Guys, you're judging something you don't know anything about. It's not the end of the world for Eve. I can't say anything, but please don't judge it before it occurs. It's not how you would probably envision it. Wait until the dev blog, then give feedback. I can say that the CSM was almost unanimous in our concern for the effects of this patch, but CCP has their act together. Please wait and see. Yeah, guess you're right. After all they allways stuck to their vision of a harsh, dark, unforgiving world.
CaptainSpock211	Posted - 2009.01.23 00:03:00 - [31] /Signed Perhaps the duel arena can have some settings that must be agreed to by both parties before you can fire upon eachother, similar to 2 parties agreeing to a trade in station. For example: Arena radius, time limit, propulsion limit, maybe even a bet. When 2 players agree to a duel, a beacon of some sort is dropped. Players must stay within a certain radius or they automatically lose. You could have stats for Wins, Losses, Draws, and Cowardly Warp-Outs. Now you have a statistic box that will show up in your character info that can give players bragging rights, and a heads up on duelers that hide their tail between their legs. Similar to the duel's setup, a draw can be agreed by both if the duelers are unable to break eachothers tanks, and decide to end it before the time is up. (my idea for the propulsion limit is intended to prevent one character from orbiting in circles just inside the arena limits with their MWD to exhaust the time limit and gain an automatic draw when they should have lost. This is ofcourse situational, and up to the players to decide if they want to use such a limit before the duel begins) The only setting that would be required is some sort of arena radius, and a time limit. Any other settings would be optional. I think that with a system like this, no one can say this is a carebear duel. You decide you wanna battle, here are the rules, you "shake hands", and start fighting eachother? No need for wardecs, no need to travel any distance. ANY TIME, ANYWHERE, LETS FIGHT NOW!!!! This idea doesn't seem cowardly and cute; rather quite honorable. The only way to get a win is to destroy the other ship, or if the other player dips out. The only problem I see with this type of system is that dueling in low sec may allow players to boost their stats by having their friend's attack the other player and boost their personal statistics. There could be a few solutions to this: restrict duels to empire space, which sadly would exclude some players. Or...Nullify low sec duels where other players interfere. Or...Have two stat banks for duels in high and low sec. OR!!!!, it could just be the risk you take if you agree to duel in low sec, or if you are at war and dueling in empire. Thanks for reading.... if you say "TLDR" then you should leave this part of the forums
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.01.23 00:55:00 - [32] Quote: A duel is a contest of honor. If you have lowered yourself to dueling dishonorable opponents, the shame is yours. It is not neccessary to spend time developing game mechanics when combat is already allowable. I do not support. This.
Bomberlocks	Posted - 2009.01.23 01:05:00 - [33] What is it anyway with older players and the constant sneering at carebears? Carebears and losec pirates and everyone else in eve all have one thing in common: They spend huge amounts of time either perfecting skills (actual combat skills) or earning isk or whatever. Carebears are afraid, and rightly so, that if they venture down into losec or 0.0, it will be a painful and expensive process. Not everyone but many below 0.4 love to kill noobs, because it boosts their egos. But in the main, the fact is that most in losec have been at the game far longer than those in hisec, i.e carebears. All the "wow is that way, zomg eve is becoming wow" stuff is really getting old. I think if losec players gave hisec noobs a good reason (and no, camping the first gate they come through amazingly doesn't count as a reason) to go into losec, such as invitations to fly and train with them and learn the ropes, maybe more would go. As every clown here constantly states, eve is a harsh place. It's like the real world in that respect. And just like in the real world, people who, even if is virtual, work hard to earn their isk, and they're scared of losing and their implants bla bla bla. Treat thecarebears with more respect and less teenage epeen ****erage and I'm pretty sure you'll get more of them in <0.4.
Saphirro	Posted - 2009.01.23 01:26:00 - [34] Originally by: Bunyip but suffice it to say that your pleas have not fallen on deaf ears. I bet the pleas of those opposed to duelling in EvE have... Whatever it is, I expect it's another dumbing-down move for the game that looks good on paper and turns out to be terrible. Think Faction Warfare but... No, just think FW. ____________________________________ Google - 'Rata Nrnima bunyip issler'
CaptainSpock211	Posted - 2009.01.23 02:33:00 - [35] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: A duel is a contest of honor. If you have lowered yourself to dueling dishonorable opponents, the shame is yours. It is not neccessary to spend time developing game mechanics when combat is already allowable. I do not support. This. I disagree!! Regardless of how serious one of the duelers may be, this is still a game! Not a fencing match, nor a martial arts competition, nor a fight to the death. Right now its more similar to a Thumb War. You shouldn't have shame because the person on the other side was dishonorable and used their index finger to get your thumb down. But maybe the next time that person proposes a thumb war, you may offer to use katanas and have a true duel. If a specific way to duel was implemented, the dishonorable may be discouraged to partake. In other words, players who truly want to duel can do so effectively with a system that promotes honorable gameplay. Yes, combat is allowable, but not anywhere, anytime. And sure you could declare war, but then you have the whole corp or alliance on you for a week. We are talking about a one time deal, lets fight now, and its over. I believe the purpose of this idea is to have a function to duel in high sec without having to flip each others cans. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but in order to duel here, players are using game mechanics designed for something else. Its great that people have used this method to fulfill their desire to duel, but it still leaves plenty of space for people to cheat and/or waste your time. Why not create a mechanic for a purpose people obviously would like to see? And why not have a dueling system where the cowardly and dishonorable opponent can be discouraged to play, or tared and feathered for running away? This is not a nerf of any sort, and doesn't impose on any other form of gameplay already available. This mechanic doesn't affect anyone not dueling, so why are people so against it? I think the majority of people against it just don't care to use it. Live Long and Prosper, unless you are one of those pinko Romulans!!
Victoria Ehr Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.01.23 04:15:00 - [36] read captainspock's posts he is right on! Hey Vaal krit lets go play Wow now -------------------------------------------- Glory to the State and Tibus Heth.
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.01.23 11:46:00 - [37] I am against anything which limits the consequences of bad decisions in Eve. Consequences are what seperates Eve from other MMOs (where dying simply means respawning somewhere, and perhaps a little embarassment). Say a person is in a bar, and some dude starts tryinig to pick a fight with them. The bully has 4 buddies back at his bar table. The person wants to kick the hell out of the bully. A very serious consideration in this situation NEEDS to be "will his friends stay out of it when I start pounding on him". Even if the bully agrees to "take it out side" (agreed to a duel) can we be sure his buddies will not interfere. No, we can't. It's not fair. It's life. I do not want more factors in the game that limit consequences of our decisions. To continue the analogy: Find a way to get out of the bar, or deal with the fact you might be fighting five dudes.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.01.23 12:44:00 - [38] Edited by: Cedric Diggory on 23/01/2009 12:44:34 Originally by: CaptainSpock211 I disagree!! Regardless of how serious one of the duelers may be, this is still a game! Not a fencing match, nor a martial arts competition, nor a fight to the death. Right now its more similar to a Thumb War. You shouldn't have shame because the person on the other side was dishonorable and used their index finger to get your thumb down. But maybe the next time that person proposes a thumb war, you may offer to use katanas and have a true duel. If a specific way to duel was implemented, the dishonorable may be discouraged to partake. In other words, players who truly want to duel can do so effectively with a system that promotes honorable gameplay. The beauty of eve is that the only honour in the game is what you bring to it. Putting mechanics in place that can be an obstacle to dishonour would be a horrible mistake in my opinion. Following the analogy of a thumb war, the index finger example is a dreadful one. What would be more apt would be that you start thumb wrestling, and one of your friends turns up with a sledgehammer, crushing your hand. This to me is the way eve should be, and the ideas in this thread distastefully try to take the game away from this. Quote: Yes, combat is allowable, but not anywhere, anytime. And sure you could declare war, but then you have the whole corp or alliance on you for a week. We are talking about a one time deal, lets fight now, and its over. I would support changing the game to allow combat against anyone, anywhere, anytime as long as it was as unregulated as zerosec combat currently is. Anything else would be fluff, and a waste of man hours to develop. One time fight? Flip those cans. Quote: I believe the purpose of this idea is to have a function to duel in high sec without having to flip each others cans. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but in order to duel here, players are using game mechanics designed for something else. Its great that people have used this method to fulfill their desire to duel, but it still leaves plenty of space for people to cheat and/or waste your time. Why not create a mechanic for a purpose people obviously would like to see? And why not have a dueling system where the cowardly and dishonorable opponent can be discouraged to play, or tared and feathered for running away? C&P forum is for your tarring and there's nothing wrong with using the can flip mechanic. If a "dueling system" consisted of being able to choose to flag yourself to someone in highsec and nothing more, I could understand that... but it's not. What we'd see is a system of honour points and e-peen waving and there's more than enough of that at present. Quote: This is not a nerf of any sort, and doesn't impose on any other form of gameplay already available. This mechanic doesn't affect anyone not dueling, so why are people so against it? I think the majority of people against it just don't care to use it. This mechanic could and would affect people witnessing a duel, as currently if I see people dueling in highsec I may well decide to attack one of them myself and take the concordokken just to *** them off*. That, my friend, is the essence of Eve-Online and all that makes it great
CaptainSpock211	Posted - 2009.01.23 18:46:00 - [39] Originally by: Cedric Diggory I would support changing the game to allow combat against anyone, anywhere, anytime as long as it was as unregulated as zerosec combat currently is. Anything else would be fluff, and a waste of man hours to develop. One time fight? Flip those cans. If you want to engage in unregulated PvP action, you have the freedom to fly out to low sec and do whatever you want. That is the beauty of EVE. The purpose of this proposed game mechanic would be to strictly have a 1 on 1 duel with someone. Flipping cans allow a whole corporation to engage in combat. People who actually want to duel are discouraged to engage in these battles purely because its not worth risking your ship to some dishonorable jack@ss who has his buddies waiting to warp in and gang bang you. After this happens a couple times to someone, one will probably loose interest in engaging in this type of battle. I would have no problem risking a 200Mil Isk Battleship if I was sure that no one else would interfere. If there was a 1 on 1 dueling system we would see alot more PvP, and in turn, stimulate the market. I would be 100% satisfied with a simple flag that allows combat without additional regulation. My only intention for proposing an arena and some sort of regulation would be to support a point system if there was one. Originally by: Cedric Diggory This mechanic could and would affect people witnessing a duel, as currently if I see people dueling in highsec I may well decide to attack one of them myself and take the concordokken just to *** them off. That, my friend, is the essence of Eve-Online and all that makes it great No, it wouldn't affect any witnesses... this mechanic won't prevent you from being a moron and loosing your little ship when concord pimp smacks you. The 2 players can flag eachother as ok to fire, while you can throw away as many frigates as you wish in attempt* to p!ss people off. You wont be tipping the scales of any good battle when your ship gets popped in 20 seconds. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume are smart enough to not waste an expensive ship in such a manner. It seems to me that you are one of those people who will can flip for a duel, and then call in a swarm of corp members to bombard them. This is why you don't want them to create this mechanic, because it would be stealing your fun. Go back to a noob system and drop more cans that say "Your Cargo Container". And, no, that is not the essence of Eve-online. That is the essence of a person who relies on p!ssing people off to enjoy the game because they have become bored with it.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.01.23 18:55:00 - [40] Edited by: Drake Draconis on 23/01/2009 18:55:33 Quote: This mechanic could and would affect people witnessing a duel, as currently if I see people dueling in highsec I may well decide to attack one of them myself and take the concordokken just to **** them off. That, my friend, is the essence of Eve-Online and all that makes it great No it wouldn't. This is a streamlined mechanic that prevents interference... but that doesn't stop some idiot from jumping in and getting CONCORDED because he wanted to do said thing. This just makes sure ANY interference... including repping.... or corp flagging... would be CONCORDED for interference. Not that it would stop you.... you get anywhere from 15 to 30 seconds. : O )
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.01.23 19:03:00 - [41] Edited by: Cedric Diggory on 23/01/2009 19:03:02 Quote: It seems to me that you are one of those people who will can flip for a duel, and then call in a swarm of corp members to bombard them. This is why you don't want them to create this mechanic, because it would be stealing your fun. Go back to a noob system and drop more cans that say "Your Cargo Container". And, no, that is not the essence of Eve-online. That is the essence of a person who relies on p!ssing people off to enjoy the game because they have become bored with it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call a Straw Man.
CaptainSpock211	Posted - 2009.01.23 19:13:00 - [42] Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Say a person is in a bar, and some dude starts tryinig to pick a fight with them. The bully has 4 buddies back at his bar table. The person wants to kick the hell out of the bully. A very serious consideration in this situation NEEDS to be "will his friends stay out of it when I start pounding on him". Even if the bully agrees to "take it out side" (agreed to a duel) can we be sure his buddies will not interfere. No, we can't. It's not fair. It's life. I do not want more factors in the game that limit consequences of our decisions. To continue the analogy: Find a way to get out of the bar, or deal with the fact you might be fighting five dudes. So I'm at this bar, and this bully starts picking on me. If I decide to fight him and put my fists up, I run the risk of his brute friends stepping in and sucker punching me. I don't disagree with this statement at all. But the scenario we are asking for is a place to spar with a person in an honorable way. We are playing a game, not dealing with drunken bro-dudes!!! How about this scenario? You are at the gym, and you come across someone you want to spar with. You:"Wanna go for a boxing match?" Them:"Sure." Next thing you know, two people jump in the ring and start beating the living daylights out of each other. One person will win, or both people will become exhausted and call it off. Either way, both players get to say, "good match" regardless of who won. The difference here is that you have both agreed to a fight for fun, and it is obvious that no one else is gonna jump in to support one of the fighters. THIS ISN'T A BULLY SCENARIO!!! If some idiot brings brings a barbell and wails on one of the contenders, you better believe the gym staff is gonna be calling the police. That is life. The game already allows us to "walk down the street and start a fight with a stranger." We are asking for an arena so we can battle for sport. If there was a point system attatched to it like I proposed above, you could keep track of who won, who lost, who had a draw, and who ran out of the ring like a little sissy. SPORT. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Live Long and Prosper, unless you're one of those pinko Romulans!!
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.01.23 19:40:00 - [43] Yeah, but aren't you the same guy who argued earlier that this wasn't a "fencing match or martial arts match".. now you're comparing it to a almost exactly that. My point is that Eve is and should remain a lot closer to the bar parking lot than the health club. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.01.23 21:29:00 - [44] Originally by: CaptainSpock211 We are asking for an arena so we can battle for sport. If there was a point system attatched to it like I proposed above, you could keep track of who won, who lost, who had a draw, and who ran out of the ring like a little sissy. SPORT. An arena is a good idea, but that is not what the OP wants. Any arena would have to incur ship loss, it just has to. Otherwise it is a huge immersion breaker. Have you ever seen "duels" in other mmos? It completely breaks any immersion you may have as it is two people just messing around, instead of dying you kneel down and a healer who watches nearby heals people and they are instantly ready to go again. It is incredibly lame to watch and pointless as no one actually dies. EVE is about meaningful losses and combat, "dueling" without ship loss is out of place in EVE. The whole point of EVE is that you are given the choice to be in a bad corp that breaks dueling agreements or be in an honorable corp that honors 1v1s. With the current system you have the choice, with your system, you have NO CHOICE. Because you cannot dishonor a duel, it makes it have zero honor (oh god, e-honor). Honor is only accrued if you do something when the temptation to do evil or nothing is there. I don't see why we cannot have a few arenas around the galaxy for duels and tournaments, but a flat out acceptance of the extremely lame WoW "dueling" mechanic is wholly against what makes EVE different from WoW and WoW-clones. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.01.23 21:57:00 - [45] Originally by: Bunyip I can say that the CSM was almost unanimous in our concern for the effects of this patch, but CCP has their act together. Please wait and see. No. The camp was actually quite split on this very thing.
CaptainSpock211	Posted - 2009.01.24 02:03:00 - [46] Originally by: CaptainSpock211 Regardless of how serious one of the duelers may be, this is still a game! Not a fencing match, nor a martial arts competition, nor a fight to the death. Right now its more similar to a Thumb War. Yes, at the moment the way to duel (in empire) is very much like a childish game where people may ignore the rules and play by their own. I would like to see something more serious that allows two players, and no one else, to freely engage in combat for sport. No one can get support from other ships, no fleet bonuses etc. Straight up one on one. I do have to say, I have never played any other MMO's out there, so I am not familiar with the characteristics of existing duel systems. I would just like to see the ability to agree to a duel that doesn't involve me allowing a whole corporation to attack me also. Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri My point is that Eve is and should remain a lot closer to the bar parking lot than the health club. I totally agree with you, but this duel system wouldn't eliminate this metaphorical bar situation. When you go to low sec, you can loose your ship even if you didn't look for a fight. You may have just passed by the wrong people, at the wrong place, at the wrong time. Just like choosing to walk into the bar. And it is totally up to you to travel there and take that risk or not. I by no means am asking for that to be taken away from the game. I am asking for a shred of control in one certain situation. Low sec allows anyone, or any group to do what they want, and I am all for it. But I want to see some serious contenders go one on one in the boxing ring, not a group of fools with shanks, broken bottles, and brass knuckles.
Victoria Ehr Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.01.24 05:09:00 - [47] This is not only for 1v1 actually, this works for groups of friends who are not in the same corp and want to do a group pvp in high sec. It is much much easier to just agree to a pvp flag for a period of time via an interface option, rather than all bunching up and dropping cans and stealing from them. Especially helps people doing their own pvp tournaments and want to invite friends outside of corp to it. I mean, stealing from cans for 1v1 or group pvp in highsec is fine, this is just trying to offer a more refined method. Trading cans for consensual high sec pvp is so 2003. We are improving and advancing EVE with every patch, this is no different in its purpose. -------------------------------------------- Glory to the State and Tibus Heth.
Victoria Ehr Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.01.24 05:18:00 - [48] Originally by: Vaal Erit but a flat out acceptance of the extremely lame WoW "dueling" mechanic is wholly against what makes EVE different from WoW and WoW-clones. Vaal, you seem opposed to my idea simply because WoW also uses an interface option to allow for consensual pvp, where pvp otherwise is not an option. So do you also want to eliminate the option where people agree to steal from each others jetcan in space to then set a 15 min timer for a pvp fight in high sec? How is the jetcan-trading mechanic we currently have any better or mature sounding than the dreaded WoW-like interface mechanic that would achieve the same end? Seriously, what does Wow have to do with this dude? -------------------------------------------- Glory to the State and Tibus Heth.
Vuk Lau	Posted - 2009.01.24 10:11:00 - [49] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Bunyip I can say that the CSM was almost unanimous in our concern for the effects of this patch, but CCP has their act together. Please wait and see. No. The camp was actually quite split on this very thing. Well, he wrote "almost" :D
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.24 19:14:00 - [50] Originally by: Victoria Ehr Originally by: Vaal Erit but a flat out acceptance of the extremely lame WoW "dueling" mechanic is wholly against what makes EVE different from WoW and WoW-clones. Vaal, you seem opposed to my idea simply because WoW also uses an interface option to allow for consensual pvp, where pvp otherwise is not an option. So do you also want to eliminate the option where people agree to steal from each others jetcan in space to then set a 15 min timer for a pvp fight in high sec? How is the jetcan-trading mechanic we currently have any better or mature sounding than the dreaded WoW-like interface mechanic that would achieve the same end? Seriously, what does Wow have to do with this dude? If it was the same as using jetcans why the heck would CCP waste time on such a mechanic when you can use Jetcans? A duel option similar to wow would suck in EVE.
CaptainSpock211	Posted - 2009.01.26 00:43:00 - [51] Well Victoria, I totally agree, a dueling mechanic doesn't need to be designed for 1 on 1 battles only. I got a little wrapped up in the battles that I have witnessed and engaged in. Originally by: Esmenet If it was the same as using jetcans why the heck would CCP waste time on such a mechanic when you can use Jetcans? It wouldn't be the same... When you flip cans you are opening the door to an unknown amount of people to fire at you freely. With a dueling mechanic you could select exactly who you are inviting to a duel. We would see people more players willing to engage in consensual combat if there was a system specifically designed for that purpose. Using the jetcan back-door commonly ends up in players pulling their pants down, bending over, and inviting others to F them in the A. ouch. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Live Long and Prosper, unless you're one of those pinko Romulans!!
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.01.26 05:54:00 - [52] Originally by: Victoria Ehr Originally by: Vaal Erit but a flat out acceptance of the extremely lame WoW "dueling" mechanic is wholly against what makes EVE different from WoW and WoW-clones. Vaal, you seem opposed to my idea simply because WoW also uses an interface option to allow for consensual pvp, where pvp otherwise is not an option. So do you also want to eliminate the option where people agree to steal from each others jetcan in space to then set a 15 min timer for a pvp fight in high sec? How is the jetcan-trading mechanic we currently have any better or mature sounding than the dreaded WoW-like interface mechanic that would achieve the same end? Seriously, what does Wow have to do with this dude? No, I have made many posts on why I do not like this mechanic. Perhaps you should read them. Or have you been too busy scrambling to find new assets after being booted from MM? Once again, the can aggro allows for people to dishonor a duel, which makes the game overall better and more free than strict rules that cannot be broken. The fact that you can steal, cheat, lie, and break promises is the core of why EVE is different from other MMORPGs. If EVE was about 1v1 e-honor battles we would have restrictions on who you could attack based on ship class or sp amount and other lame mechanics found in wow clones. WoW isn't all bad, they have some good mechanics. But when you want a PvP restricting mechanic that you are blatantly copying from WoW, then I say gtfo. If you want to duel without any risks, play any other MMORPG on the market. I have gone over my arguments again and again. If you refuse to do a simple courtesy as READING MY ****ING POSTS, then gtfo. You are not having a discussion, you are attempting to mock me quite unsuccessfully. Go back to the caldari militia and pretend you know anything about anything.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.26 11:00:00 - [53] Originally by: CaptainSpock211 Originally by: Esmenet If it was the same as using jetcans why the heck would CCP waste time on such a mechanic when you can use Jetcans? It wouldn't be the same... When you flip cans you are opening the door to an unknown amount of people to fire at you freely. With a dueling mechanic you could select exactly who you are inviting to a duel. We would see people more players willing to engage in consensual combat if there was a system specifically designed for that purpose. Using the jetcan back-door commonly ends up in players pulling their pants down, bending over, and inviting others to F them in the A. ouch. Exactly why a duelling mechanic would suck for EVE.
Odessima Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.01.26 11:42:00 - [54] With everything else in eve, you want to put this in place....Go figure....1v's1 fights priority, Massive Fleet battles ...priority, normal 10-100 pvp fights...sorry guys lunch time,mission running ...okay its time to make that a priority... seriously who is ccp paying attention to these days
Efrim Black	Posted - 2009.01.26 16:46:00 - [55] Edited by: Efrim Black on 26/01/2009 16:46:50 Originally by: Vaal Erit Originally by: Victoria Ehr Originally by: Vaal Erit but a flat out acceptance of the extremely lame WoW "dueling" mechanic is wholly against what makes EVE different from WoW and WoW-clones. Vaal, you seem opposed to my idea simply because WoW also uses an interface option to allow for consensual pvp, where pvp otherwise is not an option. So do you also want to eliminate the option where people agree to steal from each others jetcan in space to then set a 15 min timer for a pvp fight in high sec? How is the jetcan-trading mechanic we currently have any better or mature sounding than the dreaded WoW-like interface mechanic that would achieve the same end? Seriously, what does Wow have to do with this dude? No, I have made many posts on why I do not like this mechanic. Perhaps you should read them. Or have you been too busy scrambling to find new assets after being booted from MM? Once again, the can aggro allows for people to dishonor a duel, which makes the game overall better and more free than strict rules that cannot be broken. The fact that you can steal, cheat, lie, and break promises is the core of why EVE is different from other MMORPGs. If EVE was about 1v1 e-honor battles we would have restrictions on who you could attack based on ship class or sp amount and other lame mechanics found in wow clones. Hes not trying to make Eve about 1 vs 1, hes simply asking for an invite for sparring/dueling. It wouldn't remove can aggro, it wouldn't change ANY of the mechanics save to add one extra method of fighting. Nowhere in his original post did he mention at all removing any of the current aggro mechanics. So all your anger is kind of mis-directed. Aggro between only two players via an invite interface shouldn't be that difficult to add into the game. Just give it a fee, since from a role-playing perspective you'd be paying Concord to stay out of it. I don't really see any problem with it, and seeing as there is an entire thread to make control+click unselect, I'll support someone who wants a simple way to fight 1 on 1, WITHOUT breaking, changing, or removing any of the current mechanics. If the OP says otherwise, I retract my support.
CaptainSpock211	Posted - 2009.01.27 00:20:00 - [56] Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: CaptainSpock211 Originally by: Esmenet If it was the same as using jetcans why the heck would CCP waste time on such a mechanic when you can use Jetcans? It wouldn't be the same... When you flip cans you are opening the door to an unknown amount of people to fire at you freely. With a dueling mechanic you could select exactly who you are inviting to a duel. We would see people more players willing to engage in consensual combat if there was a system specifically designed for that purpose. Using the jetcan back-door commonly ends up in players pulling their pants down, bending over, and inviting others to F them in the A. ouch. Exactly why a duelling mechanic would suck for EVE. If you are looking for a duel in New Eden today, you are pretty much waiving a flag to players that says "Gang-bang me if you so wish." Sorry, I'm not gonna put my pricey powerhouse ships on the line with that possibility. We could duel in small ships and not be too p!ssed off if we get screwed over, but thats not really all that appealing either. If you wanna duel someone, you're not going to bring some half-aºº ships to the fight. I would have no qualms bringing out these ships to see how they fare against others if there wasn't a risk of r@pe involved. Especially if there was a bet involved For the people against this argument, I understand that they want the system to bet left open and have the risk factor involved, but I strongly believe that this is preventing many people from having these battles all together. Why interfere with the quest for others to have these battles, when you are free to catch anyone by surprise and take advantage of them in low sec? Isn't that part of the reason why we have these two main regions?
Ignition SemperFi Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.01.27 00:32:00 - [57] you want risk free combat, USE THE TEST SERVER FFS!!!!
Private Piyal Federal Noob Mercs	Posted - 2009.01.27 01:28:00 - [58] Originally by: Ignition SemperFi you want risk free combat, USE THE TEST SERVER FFS!!!! Did you even read what the OP is saying? Ignition must have been a former WoW player, he doesn't read, he just plays.
Galia Bonaventure	Posted - 2009.01.27 02:57:00 - [59] Waiting eagerly for the dev blog/patch notes

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