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evos
501st Providence Light Defense Squadron
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Posted - 2009.01.21 11:57:00 -
[1]
Hi all, ill keep this as small and detailed as possible to avoid boring the living **** out of you.
Within the real world an economy is based on paying wages, cost vs profit, loss vs gain and banks paying interest in large sums of money. Our economy ingame is one of the best i have seen in an MMO, WOW comes a close second but EVE's is much better. Id like to propose an idea
An EVE Bank run by Concord, Naming Such *Concord Secuirty Central New Eden Bank*. The idea is to encourage people to save money and place it in this bank and to earn interest on said money. Now rates would have to be worked out ofc, but i think the Swiss bank has the best rates vs profit setup in the world.
I think maybe a set amount per week per million would be a good idea. Lets say $200,000 ISK per week Per million you have holding in the bank gained in interest from CSCNEB (The Bank Name Shortend). I think this could be an answer to the ISK selling issue, if players can have a saving account within EVE, that they donate into on 1 char (only) per account with a max of Three accounts able to use the bank (Per IP).
I belive this could end our ISK seller issues if players are able to save there millions and have CCP AKA Concord give something back. I think also limiting deposits to 100Mil per week and withdrawals to 1 Billion per week could stop abuse of the system.
Ive been thinking about this for awhile and im still thinking thru it in more details and i will have a proposal set for CCP within two weeks. But this is the preminarily idea
Could i get peoples thoughts on this and whether you think this could be a good idea or a complete waste of time.
Thx in advance |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.01.21 11:59:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 21/01/2009 12:00:48 omfg inflation This idea is a disaster in the making for anyone who doesn't invest. Market prices are going to soar. Everyone will have more ISK, but they'll be paying more ISK too, meaning the ISK buying issue will remain. Nothing is actually going to cure ISK buying. |
evos
501st Providence Light Defense Squadron
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Posted - 2009.01.21 11:59:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum omfg inflation This idea is a disaster in the making for anyone who doesn't invest. Market prices are going to soar.
Would would you not want to invest, if you have millions, the idea is to make more by investing and building is it not? |
Gallente trader10
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Posted - 2009.01.21 12:06:00 -
[4]
Originally by: evos
Originally by: Dirk Magnum omfg inflation This idea is a disaster in the making for anyone who doesn't invest. Market prices are going to soar.
Would would you not want to invest, if you have millions, the idea is to make more by investing and building is it not?
several player run banks already provide this service |
evos
501st Providence Light Defense Squadron
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Posted - 2009.01.21 12:08:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Gallente trader10
Originally by: evos
Originally by: Dirk Magnum omfg inflation This idea is a disaster in the making for anyone who doesn't invest. Market prices are going to soar.
Would would you not want to invest, if you have millions, the idea is to make more by investing and building is it not?
several player run banks already provide this service
They are not secure and the slightest miss hap could screw the corp + u cannot trust sumone you do know as a director or a CEO to eventully let greed get the better of them
A CCP aka Concord run bank would diverse more people into saving and building, reducing and inflating economy as needed [/url] |
Belid Hagen
Shade. Penumbra Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.21 12:11:00 -
[6]
Originally by: evos
Originally by: Gallente trader10
Originally by: evos
Originally by: Dirk Magnum omfg inflation This idea is a disaster in the making for anyone who doesn't invest. Market prices are going to soar.
Would would you not want to invest, if you have millions, the idea is to make more by investing and building is it not?
several player run banks already provide this service
They are not secure and the slightest miss hap could screw the corp + u cannot trust sumone you do know as a director or a CEO to eventully let greed get the better of them
A CCP aka Concord run bank would diverse more people into saving and building, reducing and inflating economy as needed
and real life banks are secure? The whole reason why banks are able to give interest on your money is because the bank is taking risks with your money. A completely SAFE bank would not be able to pay interest, but would have to charge you for holding your cash.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.01.21 12:12:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 21/01/2009 12:15:17
Originally by: evos Lets say $200,000 ISK per week Per million you have holding in the bank gained in interest from CSCNEB (The Bank Name Shortend).
A 20% weekly interest rate is a gigantic infusion of artificially spawned passive ISK into the market, even if people were limited to depositing 100 mil each week and the restriction to a certain number of accounts per player was applied (which would never fly anyway because people are all bawww about the rights of their alts.) Market prices are going to climb higher and higher to compensate for this is what I'm saying. It isn't actually going to solve any sort of ISK-related problems in the game.
The player-run banks aren't secure, but they also don't artificially generate ISK when they make their [hopefully profitable] investments with peoples' cash. The amount of available cash in-game is not altered by these banks transactions, in other words, meaning these banks don't contribute to inflation.
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baltec1
R.U.S.T.
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Posted - 2009.01.21 12:16:00 -
[8]
Real life bank are not secure, as we have found out over the last few months.
Back to eve though, I am investing in my own armour company and looking at possible funding other peoples projects.
I havent had this much fun with a market since pre-NGE galaxies.
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Sturdy Girl
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Posted - 2009.01.21 12:21:00 -
[9]
Send me all your money and I'll give you a 20% rate of return.
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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2009.01.21 12:21:00 -
[10]
This would only accelerate the growth of the economy. That's a really bad thing. It won't stop ISK selling at all either.
There's already banks in EVE and they are secure enough.
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Daryldutch
Caldari Relentless Storm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.01.21 13:02:00 -
[11]
I think you have an interesting idea however instead of heaving a bank have a stocks market. This could be ccp controlled and there wouldn't be any isk generated. A corp could put their stocks onto the market for a price set by a calculator so something like: starting with a base price of 100000 divided by the number of stock in the corp(and you cannot generate more stock afterward) then multiplied by the number of people in the corp (which will make the stocks fluctuate) and multiplied by the % of tax. Then you own a % of the stocks in the corp now if the corp rats the tax will take a percentage of off the bounty. and out of that percentage you get isk according to the percent of stocks you own.
Example: You see corp a it has 50 members and a tax rate of 5% with 20000 stocks in the company. so every stock would cost 100000/20000*50*5=1250 isk.
You buy up 1000 stocks so 1.25mill meaning you own 5% of the company. Now one of the members does a mission giving him 2 mill in bounty. 5% of that 2 million which is 100k will go to the corp wallet seeing as you now own 5% of the corp from the 100k you get added to your wallet 5k.
This might not seem much at first but if you invest in a growing corp it might turn out pretty good.
Now you bought 1000 stocks at 1250isk a pop and corp a grows with 10 members and goes from 5 to 7.5% in taxes meaning that every stock is now worth: 100000:20000*60*7.5= 2250 isk meaning your stocks almost double in value.
Seeing as this corp doesn't want to put out over 30% of their stocks (safety) your stocks are wanted meaning you can even trade them outside of the stocks market asking maybe 2500 isk a stock.
On the other hand if a corp drops in 10 members so the stock will be worth 100000:20000*40*5=1000 isk meaning the stock is worth less and there will be fewer people running missions or ratting.
Now of course there need to be some rules as to tax changes like maximum deviation of 2.5% Also a minimum of 5% And at least a monthly tax income of number of members * 200k so you do not invest in manufacturing corps since they dont have a tax income. (this can be solved with a given dividend per month) Also this basic price may change if it does get implemented.
Also there will be a fee of 1-5% of trading stocks through the market which can be reduced by trade skills. And will add another dimension to a already multidimensional game.
Evos i thank you for the inspiration with your bank post and I'm willing to make a different thread of this if you don't want this in your thread evos.
I hope ccp like this plan of mine and if you have stick please post it because it may improve the system.
Greetings DD |
Ocih
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.21 13:09:00 -
[12]
Investment income?
The thing I notice about EvE is, the npc corps never change. The empires never change (exception - FW system)
I can see investing in Materials Acquistion, if it meant getting better agents or access to new technology or better refinement research. To just introduce a new way to nring ISK in to the game just introduces a new farming tool. It may have short term benefits for the 'real' gamer but it will get taken over in time.
Investing in video games is old. Uncharted Waters from SNES is the one that comes to mind for me. Where you got new items to trade and new ships to buy based on where you invested. A far more elaborate system could work in EvE but like Uncharted Waters, if you stopped investment the tech levels would have to reverse. It would be an ISK sink more than a way to make money becuase the EvE pop doesn't really go up that much over time. |
Daryldutch
Caldari Relentless Storm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.01.21 13:25:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Daryldutch on 21/01/2009 13:26:32 Well if you buy stocks from a manufacturing corporation and you own enough stocks you have (some) saying over the corp. So yes you can make a technological investment.
And remember that the isk you invest goes to the corp meaning they can begin new projects like the upcoming t3 construction. And yes the player base doesn't grow much but people do switch corps and new corps are always being made.
And I'm not talking about npc corps cause they don't have a member count or tax rate.
greetings DD ------------------------- Some people wonder what insanity feels like, I wonder what sanity feels like. |
evos
501st Providence Light Defense Squadron
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Posted - 2009.01.21 13:29:00 -
[14]
Thank you all for your constructive arguments an ideas, pleas ekeep them coming, my propasol to CCP will include any ideas people have for a big project that could ultimatley improve the game [/url] |
Marcus Xavier
Minmatar Xavier Institute for Higher Learning
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Posted - 2009.01.21 13:31:00 -
[15]
If you need a passive source of income, may I suggest datacores? ---------------- Mutatis Mutandis |
Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar Pragmatics
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Posted - 2009.01.21 13:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: evos I think this could be an answer to the ISK selling issue, if players can have a saving account within EVE, that they donate into on 1 char (only) per account with a max of Three accounts able to use the bank (Per IP).
That would be interesting for the (many) people with dynamic IPs.
Also, as mentioned above: Ugh, inflation.
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Ocih
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.21 13:35:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Daryldutch Edited by: Daryldutch on 21/01/2009 13:26:32 Well if you buy stocks from a manufacturing corporation and you own enough stocks you have (some) saying over the corp. So yes you can make a technological investment.
And remember that the isk you invest goes to the corp meaning they can begin new projects like the upcoming t3 construction. And yes the player base doesn't grow much but people do switch corps and new corps are always being made.
And I'm not talking about npc corps cause they don't have a member count or tax rate.
greetings DD
The current EvE player corp system allows for investment via players but it has no safety net to prevent scammers from ruining it. Also, most things in EvE revolve around destructables like ships. I wanted to try and set up a system like this for BPOs but I couldn't figure out how to - make - myself pay on any investments other than via an honor system and I aint seeing much of that in large amounts of the EvE population. Lets face it, in EvE it would more of a badge to be the virtual Bernie Madoff than the virtual Steve Jobs. |
Daryldutch
Caldari Relentless Storm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.01.21 14:01:00 -
[18]
The current system of stock trade doesn't work too good and too much of an honor system I agree. And there are always going to be scammers.
But what I'm suggesting isn't a player run stock market but a part of the UI. And there are going to be rules towards risk and reward outcomes. But just as in real life you don't pick stocks at random. You have risky stocks like a small growing corp which might fall apart or turn out a great investment. And than you have established corps who turn out a steady flow of income due to ratting incomes.
Everything in eve is a risk but if you do it proper and think about it, it will pan out in the end.
greetings DD |
Grarr Dexx
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.01.21 14:13:00 -
[19]
20% intrest rates? All the player-run banks would go bankrupt. This would be an even greater way for isk sellers to increase their profits and further run the eve-economy into the ground.
NPC interaction = bad |
SentryRaven
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.21 14:18:00 -
[20]
A CCP run bank in a world where (almost) everything else is player-driven and player produced, is a bad idea, imho.
There already are banks in EVE, which are trusted and provide interest for idle ISK.
--> Moar banks? Yes..... CCP run bank? No.... |
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Ocih
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.21 14:18:00 -
[21]
So Ocih corp has the option to be a publicly traded corporation when I create it. The benefit being, I get investment capital. The problem in EvE is, most revenue is tax and not profit. While EvE is a game of corporations, each corp is also an empire. Intrest on any public debt could become a fee just like office rental I suppose, forcing me to pay it. I wouldn't make 'Ocih corp' a publicly traded company but I see where you are going.
Fattening up corp wallets would get you higher on the list but balance is not profit. Still, to even do this in our own corps, it would give some use to our 2 alts, other than souicide scouts. |
Daryldutch
Caldari Relentless Storm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.01.21 14:30:00 -
[22]
The thing is a lot of corps need investment capital to put of 0.0 ratting posses. Once a corp has done that it makes more revenue meaning it generates more isk. Once they have enough isk they can make a buy order for their corp on the market. Getting back the stocks and having their corp sit in a much wealthier position due to the fact that they didn't have to postpone their plans to shortage of isk.
And yes everything player owned is destructible but a ratting pos in a 0.0 system without a station is very profitable. apart from that you can also make things like moon mining posses which also give a lot of money. and this money is directly to the corp not to the stockholders.
Than you might say but the stockholders get nothing, but as we all know people will keep on ratting and if a corp does get a stronger position strategically and financially it attracts more members giving your stock more value.
Greetings DD |
MinSebsis
Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.01.21 14:31:00 -
[23]
Risk vs Reward.
I think this bank Idea run by CCP has merit, BUT instead of always gaining 1% or so on your account you also have the chance to lose money.
The gain/loss could be tied to a certain market index, such as maybe ore or some volatile market, but still player run.
If done right it could add a 4th dimension to the already one of a kind economy that is EVE.
:) |
Primnproper
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Posted - 2009.01.21 14:34:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Primnproper on 21/01/2009 14:34:08 Ignoring every1 else's objections I have one question.
How does this help with isk sellers??
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.21 14:34:00 -
[25]
i trust eve bank !
no wait i have no isk and so been flying around with the same 2 BS for 3 months =) |
Ocih
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.21 14:36:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Armoured C i trust eve bank !
no wait i have no isk and so been flying around with the same 2 BS for 3 months =)
Me too
I have a Zealot as well. I just haven't unpackaged it because I can't fit it right now |
Rivqua
Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2009.01.21 14:40:00 -
[27]
Originally by: LaVista Vista This would only accelerate the growth of the economy. That's a really bad thing. It won't stop ISK selling at all either.
There's already banks in EVE and they are secure enough.
Hey LaVista, when you were in Iceland, did you per chance ask the good doctor what happened to the QEN Q2-Q3-Q4 ?
/Riv
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.01.21 15:36:00 -
[28]
Originally by: evos Within the real world an economy is based on paying wages, cost vs profit, loss vs gain and banks paying interest in large sums of money.
You mean, financial system ? Because what you're talking about is NOT the economy. And no, in the real world, the financial system is largely based on DEBT right now, and it has been for a few decades thanks to fractional reserve banking.
Quote: Our economy ingame is one of the best i have seen in an MMO
Again, financial system. And it's the best because it closely resembles the real-world financial systems, everything except fractional reserve banking. Sure, some players that were enterprising enough created their own banks with their particular flavour of fractional reserve banking, but the amount of ISK in such player-run banks is a drop in the proverbial bucket compared to the total amount of ISK in the system, and most banks try to avoid "going fractional" by asking for collateral up-front.
Quote: An EVE Bank run by Concord, Naming Such *Concord Secuirty Central New Eden Bank*. The idea is to encourage people to save money and place it in this bank and to earn interest on said money.
WORST. IDEA. EVER.
Quote: I think maybe a set amount per week per million would be a good idea. Lets say $200,000 ISK per week
Good joke. Ok, so let's see... short XLS time... say I start piling up cash for one entire year, making a total of 52 deposits (5.2 bil deposited). At the end of the year, I would have in the account 6,551,815,000,000 ISK. Oh, yeah, that's 6.5 TRILLION ISK. Actually, I'd only need to pump 100m ISK in for 8 weeks before I get an interest higher than I am actually allowed to withdraw.
Ok, so maybe you say, 50 mil ISK in per week, and only 50k ISK per million interest ? So, what would I get after one year and just 2.6 bil ISK deposited ? That's right boys and girls, a whooping 11,6 bil ISK in the account !
Seriously though... system-generated interest... friggin' bad idea !
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2009.01.21 16:10:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Rivqua
Originally by: LaVista Vista This would only accelerate the growth of the economy. That's a really bad thing. It won't stop ISK selling at all either.
There's already banks in EVE and they are secure enough.
Hey LaVista, when you were in Iceland, did you per chance ask the good doctor what happened to the QEN Q2-Q3-Q4 ?
/Riv
The team who does QEN has been very busy with analyzing the POS exploit. That's sadly why we haven't seen them. |
evos
501st Providence Light Defense Squadron
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Posted - 2009.01.21 16:27:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Akita T extreme trolling for attention
It is people like you who should not be allowed to play this game.
If you had half a brain cell ud understand that my figures are just random, they cna be put up or down depending on what the market system is, oh and the economy of a country pretty much si the finiacial system, as in one part of it, and if you had thought of this before trolling i wouldnt be making you look rather stupid right now would i?
Im trying to add a new dimension to this game that CCP will find viable and id like help from the player base, not to be torn a new one by a bitter old man with no life.
Either post ur ideas or arguments in a CIVIL fashion or dont, simple as that [/url] |
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