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Avoiding SCAMS, lessons learned

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abraheam Dirty Denizens	Posted - 2009.01.23 20:05:00 - [91] Edited by: abraheam on 23/01/2009 20:05:07 Originally by: MailDeadDrop Nope. Assume the module is widely available, and the first person to activate it (in a given engagement) wins. Therefore, it is precisely like the scamming environment. If that was the case the devs would have made a crappy space ship pew pew PVP game. PVP in reality is fairly well thought out and balanced i this game which I believe is its biggest draw. Originally by: MailDeadDrop Well, by that logic CCP should do nothing about the existing Sovereignty rules, as those only affect gameplay in 0.0 and not in the whole game. Exactly. The three years I have played this game they have made minimal changes to the Sov mechanics if any. I dont think it is high priority as compared to other issues such as lag. A secondary market would be nice, but depending on the resources needed for developement I would have to assume there would be X number of arguments why those resources should be used for something else. Bottom line is that Eve has the most developed market out of any MMO I have ever played. This includes everything from Harvesting resources, the manufacturer of goods and the sale of and transportation of goods. If the Dev team had a choice of devoting resources to a secondary market or implementing mechanics to reduce lag in PVP I would hope they pick the latter.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.01.23 20:08:00 - [92] Originally by: abraheam Exactly. The three years I have played this game they have made minimal changes to the Sov mechanics if any. I dont think it is high priority as compared to other issues such as lag. A secondary market would be nice, but depending on the resources needed for developement I would have to assume there would be X number of arguments why those resources should be used for something else. Actually SOV is the next big overhaul in the pipeline, in fact there is an entire thread where the devs are discussing possible future changes with players right now. I'll see if I can dig it up
abraheam Dirty Denizens	Posted - 2009.01.23 20:10:00 - [93] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: abraheam Exactly. The three years I have played this game they have made minimal changes to the Sov mechanics if any. I dont think it is high priority as compared to other issues such as lag. A secondary market would be nice, but depending on the resources needed for developement I would have to assume there would be X number of arguments why those resources should be used for something else. Actually SOV is the next big overhaul in the pipeline, in fact there is an entire thread where the devs are discussing possible future changes with players right now. I'll see if I can dig it up If that is the case they are using their resources wisely IMO.
MailDeadDrop Globaltech Industries	Posted - 2009.01.23 20:31:00 - [94] Ok things are getting a bit more heated than I wanted. For my part in raising the temperature, I apologize. My analogy to a theoretical "I win!" PvP module is admittedly a crude one. flakeys tries an alternate analogy: Originally by: flakeys Look if someone is at a gate in 0.4 with a raven and tells my alt i can jump my main in in his freighter then i can either trust him or not.Now assume i jump in and he kills me should i ask CCP then to make killings in low-sec impossible?Should i be able to ask CCP to ban this person because he did not tell the truth. An interesting analogy, but let me point out that the freighter could have combat escort. To the best of my knowledge, there's no secondary market equivalent in Eve to that "combat escort". In the Real World (yes, I'm aware of the hazards of comparing RL to space pew-pew) the market's "combat escort" is essentially the civil court system (and to a certain extent the criminal court system). Guess what: there's no civil court system in Eve at all. And I am not trying to force CCP into a "ban scammers" corner. That's what it appears flakeys is (mis-)construing my message as. I'm looking for an essentially player-run civil court system, with the power to compel discovery (i.e. tell me...), renumeration (i.e. pay me...), and restitution (i.e. give me back...). Would such a system be at risk of being abused? Absolutely, which is why we must engineer into it mechanisms to make such misuse difficult. In Eve terms: we must make the risk/reward formula for abusing the civil courts be very unfavorable. The priority of implementing an Eve civil court system is better put off until a later time. I agree that there are other gameplay aspects that need attention from CCP more dearly than any Eve civil court system. That doesn't preclude discussing them, especially in the context of recent events. MDD
Jacque Custeau Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2009.01.23 20:54:00 - [95] I agree with the person who mentioned that scamming has no consequences. Perhaps scamming should remain in the game, but it should have consequences, fully in keeping with the 'sandbox' theme. As it stands now, someone can scam billions, sell off his chars and buy new ones and move happily along. If CCP does not want to play police officer, then it should give people the tools to follow the money and find out what happened. I will have been playing EvE for 6 years come May. I am yet to start my own IPO or invest in one, or put my money in any bank. Sometimes I think I am missing out on some parts of EvE, but then scams like this happen and I recall why I was so cautious to begin with. -------------------
Drab Cane Caldari Mining Emporium inc.	Posted - 2009.01.23 23:06:00 - [96] Just curious: If a scamming player starts a new account, then buys an existing character and adds it to his new account, is there a way to find out / discover when that character was transferred to the scammer's current player account? Having a public Wall of Shame that would show the name of the scammer's alt used, the scammer's player ID number, and a summary of the scam, would help push serial scammers into creating completely new accounts. That might slow them down a bit, especially if it is possible to tell how long the current account holder has actually had a particular character. It would make it more difficult for serial scanners to simply 'switch skins'. My feeling is that EVE is awesome because it is so open, and allows such a great range of interaction. Adding some kind of court system is ridiculous. When it comes to investing here, like gambling, one should never bet more than one is willing to lose. Certainly the scams don't appear to have hurt the investment market. Full Disclosure: My currest assets are around 450 mil, and I have yet to invest in any kind of bond or IPO (I can't afford to lose the working capital). By the by (completely off topic), I once spoke out against the need for adding a "Total Sell Orders" field to the Orders screen. Now that it's there, it really is convenient and I use it all the time. Kinda glad CCP didn't take me serious. - Who Dares, Wins
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2009.01.24 13:20:00 - [97] Originally by: LaVista Vista By your rules, you would have called me a scam. He called me a scam when I launched my second IPO too but that ended perfectly well. To be fair, I think he didn't know who I was. EVE-Tanking.com - Helping you keep your hull in-tact.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.01.24 15:07:00 - [98] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: LaVista Vista By your rules, you would have called me a scam. He called me a scam when I launched my second IPO too but that ended perfectly well. To be fair, I think he didn't know who I was. I do have a reputation for bashing people, but I don't ever remember calling yours a scam? I never called LVV a scam either.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2009.01.24 19:41:00 - [99] Originally by: cosmoray Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: LaVista Vista By your rules, you would have called me a scam. He called me a scam when I launched my second IPO too but that ended perfectly well. To be fair, I think he didn't know who I was. I do have a reputation for bashing people, but I don't ever remember calling yours a scam? I never called LVV a scam either. You know what cosmoray, I was thinking of someone else. I'm really sorry about that, your avatar looks the same. I think the biggest point from your first post that I would agree with is to watch out for people running concurrent IPOs. I ran PIF and then a few months later opened PSRS and because people trusted me that was fine but watch out for the pattern in unknowns or newcomers to the market. Starting up a second phase so early could be indicative of a ponzi scheme. A classic example is Ionia, who endeared himself to the market forums and got his fingers into every investment pie he could. While it's not confirmed that it's how he operated, he launched his schemes on a schedule that is consistent with a ponzi scheme. That should have raised some red flags but didn't for most people.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.01.24 20:01:00 - [100] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 24/01/2009 20:01:41 Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: LaVista Vista By your rules, you would have called me a scam. He called me a scam when I launched my second IPO too but that ended perfectly well. To be fair, I think he didn't know who I was. Originally by: Nyphur You know what cosmoray, I was thinking of someone else. I'm really sorry about that, your avatar looks the same. hahah Ny-phur, Ny-phur, on your knees *****! Black Sun Empire
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2009.01.24 20:54:00 - [101] Originally by: YouGotRipped hahah Ny-phur, Ny-phur, on your knees *****!!"!!!111onehundredandeleven P.S. My memory works just fine, wouldn't you agree? Did that turn out to be legit? I haven't really kept up to date on investments since closing mine down. EVE-Tanking.com - Helping you keep your hull in-tact.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.01.24 23:58:00 - [102] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: YouGotRipped hahah Ny-phur, Ny-phur, on your knees *****!!"!!!111onehundredandeleven P.S. My memory works just fine, wouldn't you agree? Did that turn out to be legit? I haven't really kept up to date on investments since closing mine down. Sorta yes, sorta who knows really. Two flops with isk being sent back on the second and now we're in the middle of a third with report date coming up here soon. Hell even Amarr invested in it, but mostly just so he could flame fest YGR with justification
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.01.25 11:06:00 - [103] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 25/01/2009 11:15:22 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Hell even Amarr invested in it, but mostly just so he could flame fest YGR with justification "My eyes grew heavy and my lips they could not speak I tried to get up but I couldn't find my feet He reassured me with an unfamiliar line And then he gave to me more winter whine Ohooooh, AC's whine... When I woke up the sun was shining in my eyes My IPO was gone, my head felt twice its size He took my investors, 1 isk and a dime And let me craving for more winter whine Ohooooh, AC's whine." Thread successfully derailed. Black Sun Empire
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.25 11:36:00 - [104] YGR you are like ten books mixed into one. Sometimes you act like a snotty nosed 14 year old, sometimes you flame just because, sometimes you go on major rampages through the forums causing as much havoc as you can and other times you show a great level of maturity and knowledge. Answer me three RL questions YGR: * How old are you? * What nationality are you? * What industry/sector do you work in? I know this is also O/T but I am very curious to know. You can mail me ingame if you prefer not to say here
Astarte Nosferatu Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.25 11:44:00 - [105] Originally by: Ricdic YGR you are like ten books mixed into one. Sometimes you act like a snotty nosed 14 year old, sometimes you flame just because, sometimes you go on major rampages through the forums causing as much havoc as you can and other times you show a great level of maturity and knowledge. Answer me three RL questions YGR: * How old are you? * What nationality are you? * What industry/sector do you work in? I know this is also O/T but I am very curious to know. You can mail me ingame if you prefer not to say here The guy is just schizophrenic. There are probably 4-6 different YGR's that we can differentiate .
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.01.25 13:33:00 - [106] Originally by: Ricdic YGR you are like ten books mixed into one. Sometimes you act like a snotty nosed 14 year old, sometimes you flame just because, sometimes you go on major rampages through the forums causing as much havoc as you can and other times you show a great level of maturity and knowledge. Answer me three RL questions YGR: * How old are you? * What nationality are you? * What industry/sector do you work in? I know this is also O/T but I am very curious to know. You can mail me ingame if you prefer not to say here I don't believe I have ever shared personal info while playing an internet game (it defeats the whole purpose of having created an avatar with such an expressive name), nor am I interested in going on self praising rants, listing achievements. It's just not something I would do. What I can tell you for sure is that anyone playing a game such as Eve for entertainment purposes, falls between certain boundaries regarding his age, maturity, intelligence and so on. Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu The guy is just schizophrenic. There are probably 4-6 different YGR's that we can differentiate . Personality (as an image people constantly identify themselves with and later determines their actions and reactions on an subconscious level) is certainly a limitation. Black Sun Empire
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.25 13:40:00 - [107] Yeh I was just curious. I have already judged you and pictured you in my mind but the picture changes with almost every post you do. You and DragonRiderTAO, whilst completely different are both virtually impossible to read.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.01.25 15:08:00 - [108] Originally by: Ricdic Yeh I was just curious. I have already judged you and pictured you in my mind but the picture changes with almost every post you do. You and DragonRiderTAO, whilst completely different are both virtually impossible to read. He's like a dog chasing a car, he wouldn't know what to do with it if he caught it
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.01.25 23:44:00 - [109] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Ricdic Yeh I was just curious. I have already judged you and pictured you in my mind but the picture changes with almost every post you do. You and DragonRiderTAO, whilst completely different are both virtually impossible to read. He's like a dog chasing a car, he wouldn't know what to do with it if he caught it I understood perfectly what he meant, though in my opinion, Ricdic's attention is misdirected. DBANKS's financial activity for the past couple of months deserves more consideration (just to be on the safe side). Black Sun Empire
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2009.01.26 02:31:00 - [110] Just because DBANK aren't being publically discussed by EBANK staff doesn't mean they aren't being discussed. :)
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.01.26 10:18:00 - [111] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 26/01/2009 10:24:44 Originally by: EBANK Ricdic Just because DBANK aren't being publically discussed by EBANK staff doesn't mean they aren't being discussed. :) Then you'd have nothing against me pulling 100m isk from my own pocket in order to provide the EBANK staff with hard facts to discuss, no? :)
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.26 12:15:00 - [112] There are certain things that won't be disclosed about EBANK, DBANK, our relationship etc. You can ask questions but I can't guarantee we will be able to answer them
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.01.26 14:44:00 - [113] Originally by: Ricdic There are certain things that won't be disclosed about EBANK, DBANK, our relationship etc. You can ask questions but I can't guarantee we will be able to answer them That's wonderful Ricdic, I'm happy for you, really, when was it the last time that you've developed such a beautiful friendship with someone? Riethe comes to mind. Oh well I expect that since you're placing DBANK on the same level as EBANK, you will have the decency that in the event Manalapan decides to disappear with his retirement fund, to discuss with the staff the matter of EBANK refunding the investors from its own reserves. Now THAT would be really awesome for EBANK's reputation, don't you think?
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.26 15:15:00 - [114] Ahh, the prodigal YGR returns.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.01.26 16:00:00 - [115] Originally by: Ricdic Ahh, the prodigal YGR returns. Nothing personal, I would rather have it that we reach a consensus in this matter.
Amy Mouse	Posted - 2009.01.30 18:10:00 - [116] cool, this is where all the money is at
Oldadam	Posted - 2009.02.06 23:36:00 - [117] Edited by: Oldadam on 06/02/2009 23:37:36 Wow I couldnt continue to play Eve if I was scammed 10 bil

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