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David Kang
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Posted - 2009.01.23 15:45:00 -
[1]
Edited by: David Kang on 23/01/2009 15:49:54 Edited by: David Kang on 23/01/2009 15:45:36 Movie shows the scale of the crisis, comparing past banking crises back to 1919 to the current crisis.
Prepare for a shock this really puts things into perspective.
Btw mind the ****ty Conspiracy theorist crap |
Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2009.01.23 16:07:00 -
[2]
Im still shocked that the Land of The Free Market made so much public funds available to private banks. I just hope someone ends up in jail for it, even though I know no one will be held accountable (and if they are, it'll be a scapegoat). In before Ralara. |
David Kang
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Posted - 2009.01.23 16:10:00 -
[3]
2009 is going to a long year
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Sanguis Sanies
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.23 16:10:00 -
[4]
unless those numbers are inflation adjusted they don't really mean much
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David Kang
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Posted - 2009.01.23 16:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: David Kang on 23/01/2009 16:13:45
Originally by: Sanguis Sanies unless those numbers are inflation adjusted they don't really mean much
I believe they're adjusted.
just checking now.
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David Kang
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Posted - 2009.01.23 16:15:00 -
[6]
they are not adjusted
here is the adjusted
link
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2009.01.23 16:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Brea Lafail Im still shocked that the Land of The Free Market made so much public funds available to private banks. I just hope someone ends up in jail for it, even though I know no one will be held accountable (and if they are, it'll be a scapegoat).
It's called free market corruption. What's funny is that everyone in the brainwashed West calls China corrupt while the US is the most corrupt country in the world. |
Izzy Lizzy
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.23 16:46:00 -
[8]
The Federal Reserve fails at everything. They are not a free market institution. They are money tyrants that have a monopoly on the supply of money. The entire reason for their existence is to manipulate the market and be the personal piggy bank of the government. They make all your statist dreams come true. |
Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.01.23 17:30:00 -
[9]
Ah, the ramblings of the ignorant. So humorous. ----------------------------------------------------
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rValdez5987
Amarr 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment. The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.23 17:32:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Farrellus Cameron Ah, the ramblings of the ignorant. So humorous.
Let me guess you think everythings fine where you are.... or perhaps you have a different opinion?
Lets hear it.
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Viceroy Cole
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.23 17:41:00 -
[11]
In other news one of Mr Obama's first orders was to put a pay freeze on top cabinet members and lobbyist now have a 2 year waiting period.
In his words "If the people can tighten their belts, so can we"
He's also looking to shut down Guantanamo Bay for the first step of shutting down this costly war and he's working with the house on getting another stimulus package out. The next few years will be dark no doubt but if the man focuses on us, our country, there can be a light at the end of the tunnel.
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goodby4u
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.23 17:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Viceroy Cole In other news one of Mr Obama's first orders was to put a pay freeze on top cabinet members and lobbyist now have a 2 year waiting period.
In his words "If the people can tighten their belts, so can we"
He's also looking to shut down Guantanamo Bay for the first step of shutting down this costly war and he's working with the house on getting another stimulus package out. The next few years will be dark no doubt but if the man focuses on us, our country, there can be a light at the end of the tunnel.
Meh the pull out order plan is in 2012, I doubt he would force it to be now rather then then, but we'll see.
Also, while the war is costly it sure as hell propped up GM longer then anything else we couldve done for them.
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente Horsemen of Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.01.23 17:46:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Super Whopper
Originally by: Brea Lafail Im still shocked that the Land of The Free Market made so much public funds available to private banks. I just hope someone ends up in jail for it, even though I know no one will be held accountable (and if they are, it'll be a scapegoat).
It's called free market corruption. What's funny is that everyone in the brainwashed West calls China corrupt while the US is the most corrupt country in the world.
but . . . . but . . . . . Obama is president now . . . i mean . . . . . he's going to fix EVERYTHING, i mean, he's giving EVERYONE FREE healthcare, FREEEE
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
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Elora Danzik
Caldari Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.23 18:12:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Izzy Lizzy The Federal Reserve fails at everything. They are not a free market institution. They are money tyrants that have a monopoly on the supply of money. The entire reason for their existence is to manipulate the market and be the personal piggy bank of the government. They make all your statist dreams come true.
The Fed is a private corporation and NOT a part of the governemnt. Congress created the fed during the Wilson Administration. Shortly there after the Roaring 20's hit, then we all know about the Depression.
The Fed has never gotten it right in its entire exsistence. They are trying to solve a problem created by congress with tools that are ineffecint at best.
BTW, money is a figment and the national debt is mostly money we owe ourselves.
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Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.01.23 18:19:00 -
[15]
Banks have refused to lend out money because they're afraid of the government nationalizing the banks after they loaned it out, so only the banks have been paid in a sense, while everyone else is choking because of the lack of credit.
Guess that's what you get when you don't actually tell banks what you're supposed to do with the money. Rushing $350 billion out the door wasn't the smartest move on Congress' part, especially money that doesn't exist. Also known as credit. Which is what got us in this situation in the first place. |
Polkageist
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.01.23 18:23:00 -
[16]
theres a documentary called "creature from jekyll island", quite intriguing title eh?
link
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.23 18:27:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 23/01/2009 18:27:34
The Federal Reserve System serves its member banks (the Primary Dealers), not the federal government, with which it has more of a symbiotic relationship. The name is a misnomer.
The financial system is failing to be reflated because it cannot be inflated beyond a point at which interest on existing debt exceeds the income available to service it. It has reached a natural limit and will deflate, either through debt default or if monetisation of debt is attempted, the collapse of the monetary system. |
Elora Danzik
Caldari Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.23 18:28:00 -
[18]
personally I prefer the latter.
Get away from this Debt structure so that we can actually use the resources effeciently. |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.23 18:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Elora Danzik Get away from this Debt structure so that we can actually use the resources effeciently.
All mediums of exchange are debt in essence, as they are a promise to do work. They do not themselves have to be interest-bearing, as interest is accumulated via resource extraction and transformation. |
David Kang
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Posted - 2009.01.23 21:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Farrellus Cameron Ah, the ramblings of the ignorant. So humorous.
Need to hear this.
Conspiracy theorist? or worse
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Nebulous
Minmatar Thukker Zoku
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Posted - 2009.01.23 21:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Elora Danzik personally I prefer the latter.
Get away from this Debt structure so that we can actually use the resources effeciently.
Get rid of the "money" structure would be even better, there is no way to have an effective system that revolves around money/profit, there will always be people in the world that suffer greatly from this system we are "forced" into.
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David Kang
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Posted - 2009.01.23 21:37:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nebulous
Originally by: Elora Danzik personally I prefer the latter.
Get away from this Debt structure so that we can actually use the resources effeciently.
Get rid of the "money" structure would be even better, there is no way to have an effective system that revolves around money/profit, there will always be people in the world that suffer greatly from this system we are "forced" into.
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then what do you replace it with?
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Elora Danzik
Caldari Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.23 21:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: David Kang
Originally by: Nebulous
Originally by: Elora Danzik personally I prefer the latter.
Get away from this Debt structure so that we can actually use the resources effeciently.
Get rid of the "money" structure would be even better, there is no way to have an effective system that revolves around money/profit, there will always be people in the world that suffer greatly from this system we are "forced" into.
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then what do you replace it with?
Resource based economy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco#Resource-based_economy
sorry don't how to do the linkage thing.
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Nebulous
Minmatar Thukker Zoku
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Posted - 2009.01.23 21:55:00 -
[24]
Originally by: David Kang
then what do you replace it with?
For the last ten years or so i've been very interested in alternate economics, the one that stands out the most is technocracy, it's a scientific form of government, it solves global problems via logic as opposed to a greed/corruption driven economy. In our current system you are given an education based on getting good grades for making lot's of money when you leave school, that makes the education competitive and corrupt, your education should be just that "an education", it's a form of doctrine at the moment.
The analysis and synthesis of North America's economy and the physical resources available at that time (1920's to early 30s) laid the groundwork for technocracy today. It was the first time in history that a study was taken not as a political entity, but from a practical physical resource base and how to convert those resources into usable goods and services with the most efficiency. The economy we are saddled with today is a hold-over from a past long gone and has had to adopt a type of an "economy of waste" to keep itself going. It's about over for that kind of a function in my opinion.
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Nebulous
Minmatar Thukker Zoku
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Posted - 2009.01.23 21:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Elora Danzik
Resource based economy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco#Resource-based_economy
sorry don't how to do the linkage thing.
I've looked into this in the past, Jacque Fresco is an ex technocrat and his ideas are very similar, for the best part his ideas are good but I don't believe the world is ready for them yet, his ideas are way to ahead of the times for my liking, but yes it's a good example and definately better than the one we have now.
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DubanFP
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.01.23 22:12:00 -
[26]
Edited by: DubanFP on 23/01/2009 22:12:12
Originally by: Sanguis Sanies unless those numbers are inflation adjusted they don't really mean much
They aren't but I pulled out my calculator and even adjusted for inflation its about 3x the 1919 crisis. This is assuming they gave the correct numbers of course. |
ceaon
Gallente Porandor
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Posted - 2009.01.23 22:40:00 -
[27]
Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 23/01/2009 22:12:12
Originally by: Sanguis Sanies unless those numbers are inflation adjusted they don't really mean much
They aren't but I pulled out my calculator and even adjusted for inflation its about 3x the 1919 crisis. This is assuming they gave the correct numbers of course.
i heard that in last 100 years dollar depreciated 27 times so @ 1908 1$ is like 27$ from our days
i will try to get sauce for this
. . .
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2009.01.24 02:55:00 -
[28]
I don't know what you guys were expecting from the Federal Reserve but it's not possible to reflate or deflate a bankrupt country. |
Marisal
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Posted - 2009.01.24 03:26:00 -
[29]
Its a recession, get used to it your all wailing and gnashing teeth over something thats happened many times before we've just had a rather long period of continued growth so ppl have forgotten what recession looks like.
There's very little a government can do that will have an immediate boost to the economy while their in recession so expect a couple year wait before the affects of any stimulus package start to work.. because simple consumer confidence is gone and thats a key factor if ppl are cutting back on their expenditure the money just isn't there any more to make the system work.
Stop comparing it to the Wall Street Crash... it is nothing alike media have hyped a few poorly chosen comments, yup its a sharp down that snook up on ppl but the rate of decline is similar to the entry of the recession's of the early 80s and early 90's.
Tbh the point when you really want to start worrying is when your country starts printing(introducing as its usually done electronically now) more money to boost its economy because this can easily devalue the currency reducing the value of savings to a fraction of what they originally were worth and will likely trigger major inflation.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.24 04:33:00 -
[30]
No, this looks like the onset of a deflationary depression similar to the 1930s, although the character of each is unique to its time. The Wall Street Crash was a headline-grabbing sideshow really, and it may not be replicated for structural reasons. Far lower retail leverage, for a start. Equities will probably look more like a long slow fall down the stairs. The real fun is in the credit/currency, real estate, durable goods and commodity markets, which are a perfect re-run of saturation, mania, saturation and pulverisation respectively. What we have is yet another generational crisis of overproduction on the back of a credit bubble and real estate mania, with heavy industry getting whipsawed by everything (in that department, my scorch marks are still smoking from other people's euphoria and liquidation).
Basically there was a spiral of lending/borrowing too much, buying too much and inflating asset prices, thereby encouraging others to take part to cash in on projections that became self-fulfilling. This bull ran until the natural limit of interest =< income. Now we have too much debt to even make adequate interest payments, and worse, we have enjoyed tomorrow's production and employment today, which means tomorrow there will be -ahem- reduced demand for it, including that which produces durables.
This last point is a bit of a blind spot for most commentators, who are struggling to explain how resources and manufacturing could possibly be so exposed to a crisis in financial services. Well, it is because we used that cheap debt to take an advance on future tangible wealth and created a class of "emerging nations" in our quest for surge capacity. We took such a large advance that no-one need make another car or television for a decade.
So I disagree with the claim that this is anything like the last couple of recessions, except for the oil bust, but that is another story. You can pretty much expect a decade of stagnation with a 30% peak to trough cut in GDP in a large number of developed nations, worse in undiversified developing exporters. |
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