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David Kang
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Posted - 2009.01.23 15:45:00 -
[1]
Edited by: David Kang on 23/01/2009 15:49:54
Edited by: David Kang on 23/01/2009 15:45:36
Movie shows the scale of the crisis, comparing past banking crises back to 1919 to the current crisis.
Prepare for a shock  this really puts things into perspective.
Btw mind the ****ty Conspiracy theorist crap  |
Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2009.01.23 16:07:00 -
[2]
Im still shocked that the Land of The Free Market made so much public funds available to private banks. I just hope someone ends up in jail for it, even though I know no one will be held accountable (and if they are, it'll be a scapegoat).
In before Ralara. |
David Kang
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Posted - 2009.01.23 16:10:00 -
[3]
2009 is going to a long year 
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Sanguis Sanies
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.23 16:10:00 -
[4]
unless those numbers are inflation adjusted they don't really mean much
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David Kang
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Posted - 2009.01.23 16:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: David Kang on 23/01/2009 16:13:45
 Originally by: Sanguis Sanies
unless those numbers are inflation adjusted they don't really mean much
I believe they're adjusted.
just checking now.
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David Kang
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Posted - 2009.01.23 16:15:00 -
[6]
they are not adjusted
here is the adjusted
link
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2009.01.23 16:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Brea Lafail
Im still shocked that the Land of The Free Market made so much public funds available to private banks. I just hope someone ends up in jail for it, even though I know no one will be held accountable (and if they are, it'll be a scapegoat).
It's called free market corruption. What's funny is that everyone in the brainwashed West calls China corrupt while the US is the most corrupt country in the world. |
Izzy Lizzy
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.23 16:46:00 -
[8]
The Federal Reserve fails at everything. They are not a free market institution. They are money tyrants that have a monopoly on the supply of money. The entire reason for their existence is to manipulate the market and be the personal piggy bank of the government. They make all your statist dreams come true.  |
Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.01.23 17:30:00 -
[9]
Ah, the ramblings of the ignorant. So humorous.
----------------------------------------------------
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rValdez5987
Amarr
32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.
The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.23 17:32:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Farrellus Cameron
Ah, the ramblings of the ignorant. So humorous.
Let me guess you think everythings fine where you are.... or perhaps you have a different opinion?
Lets hear it.
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Viceroy Cole
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.23 17:41:00 -
[11]
In other news one of Mr Obama's first orders was to put a pay freeze on top cabinet members and lobbyist now have a 2 year waiting period.
In his words "If the people can tighten their belts, so can we"
He's also looking to shut down Guantanamo Bay for the first step of shutting down this costly war and he's working with the house on getting another stimulus package out. The next few years will be dark no doubt but if the man focuses on us, our country, there can be a light at the end of the tunnel.
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goodby4u
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.23 17:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Viceroy Cole
In other news one of Mr Obama's first orders was to put a pay freeze on top cabinet members and lobbyist now have a 2 year waiting period.
In his words "If the people can tighten their belts, so can we"
He's also looking to shut down Guantanamo Bay for the first step of shutting down this costly war and he's working with the house on getting another stimulus package out. The next few years will be dark no doubt but if the man focuses on us, our country, there can be a light at the end of the tunnel.
Meh the pull out order plan is in 2012, I doubt he would force it to be now rather then then, but we'll see.
Also, while the war is costly it sure as hell propped up GM longer then anything else we couldve done for them.
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Horsemen of Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.01.23 17:46:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Super Whopper
Originally by: Brea Lafail
Im still shocked that the Land of The Free Market made so much public funds available to private banks. I just hope someone ends up in jail for it, even though I know no one will be held accountable (and if they are, it'll be a scapegoat).
It's called free market corruption. What's funny is that everyone in the brainwashed West calls China corrupt while the US is the most corrupt country in the world.
but . . . . but . . . . . Obama is president now . . . i mean . . . . . he's going to fix EVERYTHING, i mean, he's giving EVERYONE FREE healthcare, FREEEE
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
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Elora Danzik
Caldari
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.23 18:12:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Izzy Lizzy
The Federal Reserve fails at everything. They are not a free market institution. They are money tyrants that have a monopoly on the supply of money. The entire reason for their existence is to manipulate the market and be the personal piggy bank of the government. They make all your statist dreams come true.
The Fed is a private corporation and NOT a part of the governemnt. Congress created the fed during the Wilson Administration. Shortly there after the Roaring 20's hit, then we all know about the Depression.
The Fed has never gotten it right in its entire exsistence. They are trying to solve a problem created by congress with tools that are ineffecint at best.
BTW, money is a figment and the national debt is mostly money we owe ourselves.
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Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.01.23 18:19:00 -
[15]
Banks have refused to lend out money because they're afraid of the government nationalizing the banks after they loaned it out, so only the banks have been paid in a sense, while everyone else is choking because of the lack of credit.
Guess that's what you get when you don't actually tell banks what you're supposed to do with the money. Rushing $350 billion out the door wasn't the smartest move on Congress' part, especially money that doesn't exist. Also known as credit. Which is what got us in this situation in the first place. |
Polkageist
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.01.23 18:23:00 -
[16]
theres a documentary called "creature from jekyll island", quite intriguing title eh?
link
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.23 18:27:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 23/01/2009 18:27:34
The Federal Reserve System serves its member banks (the Primary Dealers), not the federal government, with which it has more of a symbiotic relationship. The name is a misnomer.
The financial system is failing to be reflated because it cannot be inflated beyond a point at which interest on existing debt exceeds the income available to service it. It has reached a natural limit and will deflate, either through debt default or if monetisation of debt is attempted, the collapse of the monetary system. |
Elora Danzik
Caldari
Ward-Tech Industries
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 18:28:00 -
[18]
personally I prefer the latter.
Get away from this Debt structure so that we can actually use the resources effeciently. |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 18:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Elora Danzik
Get away from this Debt structure so that we can actually use the resources effeciently.
All mediums of exchange are debt in essence, as they are a promise to do work. They do not themselves have to be interest-bearing, as interest is accumulated via resource extraction and transformation. |
David Kang
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Posted - 2009.01.23 21:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Farrellus Cameron
Ah, the ramblings of the ignorant. So humorous.
Need to hear this.
Conspiracy theorist? or worse 
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Thukker Zoku
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Posted - 2009.01.23 21:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Elora Danzik
personally I prefer the latter.
Get away from this Debt structure so that we can actually use the resources effeciently.
Get rid of the "money" structure would be even better, there is no way to have an effective system that revolves around money/profit, there will always be people in the world that suffer greatly from this system we are "forced" into.
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David Kang
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Posted - 2009.01.23 21:37:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nebulous
Originally by: Elora Danzik
personally I prefer the latter.
Get away from this Debt structure so that we can actually use the resources effeciently.
Get rid of the "money" structure would be even better, there is no way to have an effective system that revolves around money/profit, there will always be people in the world that suffer greatly from this system we are "forced" into.
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then what do you replace it with?
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Elora Danzik
Caldari
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.23 21:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: David Kang
Originally by: Nebulous
Originally by: Elora Danzik
personally I prefer the latter.
Get away from this Debt structure so that we can actually use the resources effeciently.
Get rid of the "money" structure would be even better, there is no way to have an effective system that revolves around money/profit, there will always be people in the world that suffer greatly from this system we are "forced" into.
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then what do you replace it with?
Resource based economy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco#Resource-based_economy
sorry don't how to do the linkage thing.
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Thukker Zoku
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Posted - 2009.01.23 21:55:00 -
[24]
Originally by: David Kang
then what do you replace it with?
For the last ten years or so i've been very interested in alternate economics, the one that stands out the most is technocracy, it's a scientific form of government, it solves global problems via logic as opposed to a greed/corruption driven economy. In our current system you are given an education based on getting good grades for making lot's of money when you leave school, that makes the education competitive and corrupt, your education should be just that "an education", it's a form of doctrine at the moment.
The analysis and synthesis of North America's economy and the physical resources available at that time (1920's to early 30s) laid the groundwork for technocracy today. It was the first time in history that a study was taken not as a political entity, but from a practical physical resource base and how to convert those resources into usable goods and services with the most efficiency. The economy we are saddled with today is a hold-over from a past long gone and has had to adopt a type of an "economy of waste" to keep itself going. It's about over for that kind of a function in my opinion.
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Thukker Zoku
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Posted - 2009.01.23 21:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Elora Danzik
Resource based economy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco#Resource-based_economy
sorry don't how to do the linkage thing.
I've looked into this in the past, Jacque Fresco is an ex technocrat and his ideas are very similar, for the best part his ideas are good but I don't believe the world is ready for them yet, his ideas are way to ahead of the times for my liking, but yes it's a good example and definately better than the one we have now.
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DubanFP
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.01.23 22:12:00 -
[26]
Edited by: DubanFP on 23/01/2009 22:12:12
Originally by: Sanguis Sanies
unless those numbers are inflation adjusted they don't really mean much
They aren't but I pulled out my calculator and even adjusted for inflation its about 3x the 1919 crisis. This is assuming they gave the correct numbers of course. |
ceaon
Gallente
Porandor
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 22:40:00 -
[27]
Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 23/01/2009 22:12:12
Originally by: Sanguis Sanies
unless those numbers are inflation adjusted they don't really mean much
They aren't but I pulled out my calculator and even adjusted for inflation its about 3x the 1919 crisis. This is assuming they gave the correct numbers of course.
i heard that in last 100 years dollar depreciated 27 times
so @ 1908 1$ is like 27$ from our days
i will try to get sauce for this
. . .
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2009.01.24 02:55:00 -
[28]
I don't know what you guys were expecting from the Federal Reserve but it's not possible to reflate or deflate a bankrupt country. |
Marisal
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Posted - 2009.01.24 03:26:00 -
[29]
Its a recession, get used to it your all wailing and gnashing teeth over something thats happened many times before we've just had a rather long period of continued growth so ppl have forgotten what recession looks like.
There's very little a government can do that will have an immediate boost to the economy while their in recession so expect a couple year wait before the affects of any stimulus package start to work.. because simple consumer confidence is gone and thats a key factor if ppl are cutting back on their expenditure the money just isn't there any more to make the system work.
Stop comparing it to the Wall Street Crash... it is nothing alike media have hyped a few poorly chosen comments, yup its a sharp down that snook up on ppl but the rate of decline is similar to the entry of the recession's of the early 80s and early 90's.
Tbh the point when you really want to start worrying is when your country starts printing(introducing as its usually done electronically now) more money to boost its economy because this can easily devalue the currency reducing the value of savings to a fraction of what they originally were worth and will likely trigger major inflation.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.24 04:33:00 -
[30]
No, this looks like the onset of a deflationary depression similar to the 1930s, although the character of each is unique to its time. The Wall Street Crash was a headline-grabbing sideshow really, and it may not be replicated for structural reasons. Far lower retail leverage, for a start. Equities will probably look more like a long slow fall down the stairs. The real fun is in the credit/currency, real estate, durable goods and commodity markets, which are a perfect re-run of saturation, mania, saturation and pulverisation respectively. What we have is yet another generational crisis of overproduction on the back of a credit bubble and real estate mania, with heavy industry getting whipsawed by everything (in that department, my scorch marks are still smoking from other people's euphoria and liquidation).
Basically there was a spiral of lending/borrowing too much, buying too much and inflating asset prices, thereby encouraging others to take part to cash in on projections that became self-fulfilling. This bull ran until the natural limit of interest =< income. Now we have too much debt to even make adequate interest payments, and worse, we have enjoyed tomorrow's production and employment today, which means tomorrow there will be -ahem- reduced demand for it, including that which produces durables.
This last point is a bit of a blind spot for most commentators, who are struggling to explain how resources and manufacturing could possibly be so exposed to a crisis in financial services. Well, it is because we used that cheap debt to take an advance on future tangible wealth and created a class of "emerging nations" in our quest for surge capacity. We took such a large advance that no-one need make another car or television for a decade.
So I disagree with the claim that this is anything like the last couple of recessions, except for the oil bust, but that is another story. You can pretty much expect a decade of stagnation with a 30% peak to trough cut in GDP in a large number of developed nations, worse in undiversified developing exporters. |
Fire Watch
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Posted - 2009.01.24 05:21:00 -
[31]
Before you watch the youtube link
Who is Gerald Celente?
Linkage
Gerald Celente of the Trends Research Institute (a Trend Forcaster) by 2012 America will become an undeveloped nation, that there will be a revolution marked by food riots, squatter rebellions, tax revolts and job marches, and that holidays will be more about obtaining food, not gifts.
Linkage
Your all screwed.
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HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.01.24 05:37:00 -
[32]
good
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"This is Chopper Dave's made for TV movie, Blades Of Vengeance. See, he's a chopper pilot by day, but by night he fights crime as a werewolf... YEAH!" |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2009.01.24 05:38:00 -
[33]
Pretty standard stuff for currency failure.
The question is, are they stupid enough to attempt monetisation of debt on the scale that would be required to produce it?
I doubt it, but I am worried they want to try all other options and simply have an oops moment at some point.
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Izzy Lizzy
Gallente
lolCatz of Liberty
|
Posted - 2009.01.24 06:12:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Elora Danzik
The Fed is a private corporation and NOT a part of the governemnt. Congress created the fed during the Wilson Administration. Shortly there after the Roaring 20's hit, then we all know about the Depression.
I hear this argument all the time and tbh it means absolute sh*t. To quote an old saying, "if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck". Yeah, technically the Fed is not part of the government. But it is so politically connected that the technicality doesn't matter.
How many other banks do you know that were put into place by Congress with such powers? How many other banks do you know were given the power to control the entire money supply? How many other bank boards are appointed by high government officials? It's a fascist system. The Fed is so closely tied to government it's foolish to pretend they aren't a part of it based on a technicality. It is the means by which the government realized it could wield significant influence over it's national economy. Central banks are a politician's dream come true.
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Thukker Zoku
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Posted - 2009.01.24 07:09:00 -
[35]
I'm sorry but as I mentioned earlier you are all missing the real point here, there is not much any government can do to make a stable money driven economy, the whole system is flawed on so many levels and it doesnt only fail at economic level, it also let's us down on a social level, our whole lives are dictated by money and it is by far the largest cause of crime, infact %90 to %95 of prisoners are in prison for crimes related to money.
So please stop arguing with each other about who and how the economy ended up in this state, look at the bigger picture and see that the biggest failure is that our enonomies are driven by money.
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2009.01.24 09:28:00 -
[36]
The problem is corruption. People in power allow bankers, corporations and the wealthy to create a problem which makes them all rich. Then those same people who created the problem are given the power to come up with a solution that makes them even richer while the tax payer, us, get screwed on a daily basis. The time has come for us to take these fools to court, hang them and make them pay for all their stupidity. But it's not going to happen because people have become complacent. |
7shining7one7
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.01.24 11:42:00 -
[37]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 24/01/2009 11:46:40
Originally by: Izzy Lizzy
Originally by: Elora Danzik
The Fed is a private corporation and NOT a part of the governemnt. Congress created the fed during the Wilson Administration. Shortly there after the Roaring 20's hit, then we all know about the Depression.
I hear this argument all the time and tbh it means absolute sh*t. To quote an old saying, "if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck". Yeah, technically the Fed is not part of the government. But it is so politically connected that the technicality doesn't matter.
How many other banks do you know that were put into place by Congress with such powers? How many other banks do you know were given the power to control the entire money supply? How many other bank boards are appointed by high government officials? It's a fascist system. The Fed is so closely tied to government it's foolish to pretend they aren't a part of it based on a technicality. It is the means by which the government realized it could wield significant influence over it's national economy. Central banks are a politician's dream come true.
it was what andrew jackson and many others fought for centuries.. it was scammed through congress while ppl were on vacation.. and the first depression happened
it is a private corporation owned by european banks,borrowing money AND controlling the printing press of your entire country, as long as they do that they OWN YOU... that's why andrew jackson and many others fought these bankers all throughout the entire history of your country so that private bankers would never control the country, so that it would not come to how it appears to be now.
maybe they are so intertwined in your political/government system that it isn't necessary for you to distinguish between them.
But putting an expensive suit on a crooks and have them drive limo's and speak to the nation as advisors and experts, having them sit next to government officials and so on, does not make them politicians nor government elect. |
Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
|
Posted - 2009.01.24 11:53:00 -
[38]
Originally by: 7shining7one7
it is a private corporation owned by european banks
The US Federal Reserve is not owned by European banks. If it were the UK would not have sold a large portion of their gold reserve to the US when gold was at its lowest in a century. |
7shining7one7
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.01.24 11:57:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Super Whopper
Originally by: 7shining7one7
it is a private corporation owned by european banks
The US Federal Reserve is not owned by European banks. If it were the UK would not have sold a large portion of their gold reserve to the US when gold was at its lowest in a century.
why would you think that private bankers care anything about the UK? when other ppl have no money stuff is cheap to buy up for those who do. |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2009.01.24 17:46:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 24/01/2009 17:47:27
Some European banks are Primary Dealers; they are shareholders in the Federal Reserve Banks, and elect some of their officials. But then, so are a number of American and Japanese banks. The US government appoints some officials too. The system is not wholly owned by anyone. It is deliberately set up as a hybrid which serves the interests of both the US government and world financial industry.
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7shining7one7
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.01.24 19:46:00 -
[41]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 24/01/2009 19:46:38
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 24/01/2009 17:47:27
Some European banks are Primary Dealers; they are shareholders in the Federal Reserve Banks, and elect some of their officials. But then, so are a number of American and Japanese banks. The US government appoints some officials too. The system is not wholly owned by anyone. It is deliberately set up as a hybrid which serves the interests of both the US government and world financial industry.
they have meeting groups like the cfr and bilderberger group where they agree on the steps.
also one thing you gotta understand is, no collapse of the dollar is possible unless the federal reserve directors and those whom they answer to, want it to happen.
the wolves want to blame "the market" as if it was some uncontrollable entity/beast just running amok.. (they control the economy, how can it run wild unless they want it to, they control the money printing press and the interest aswell as being able to erase debt if they really wanted to..) or they want to try and blame you for steps they took (8 trillion robbed due to the banker bailout) or deliberately didn't take (like not borrowing ppl money during the staged freeze, so the companies go on firing rounds).
linkage
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Raktar Medovski
Gallente
Cute and Friends
Cute Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.24 21:49:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Super Whopper
It's called free market corruption. What's funny is that everyone in the brainwashed West calls China corrupt while the US is the most corrupt country in the world.
Yeah, cause China like, didn't edit the part of Obama's speech where he talked about communism and totalitarianism.
But yeah, these banks and other industries shouldn't be getting our tax dollars because they eff'd up. |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2009.01.24 22:26:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 24/01/2009 22:29:26
In the Russian language, the word for debt, dolg, is the root of the word dolzhen, or 'must'. So the word itself carries the negative connotations of an onerous obligation more explicitly than its English equivalent. No wonder "kredit" had to be imported by marketing.
Indeed, banks must continually lend to remain profitable. Banks not making loans are naturally winding themselves down as debtors amortise the debt that forms the asset side of the banks' balance sheet. Also, credit-sensitive assets such as real estate derive a substantial part of their valuation from the lending environment, so if there are lots of banks not making loans, then the value of this collateral falls, increasing the risks even in the prime parts of their book. So a credit market lock-up is not something they can tolerate for long. There is an intractable problem though, in that credit demand has fallen away as well. This greatly reduces the likelihood of central bank intervention succeeding, as the financial crisis may be changing social attitudes to debt for a generation. What is a drug pusher to do, if he is bailed out but then someone Just Says No? Lost customers for life.
Debt does make labour/social control somewhat easier in that people feel "tied to the money" as one Lehman employee described it, being willing to put up with more and go further than most would be comfortable, to remain able to make repayments. Workers without debt are more inclined to walk out as they have one less thing to lose in any bargaining situation. I think if employers had a picture of their employees' financial obligations to factor into their deliberations, they would be inclined to go for candidates in the middle of the curve - not overloaded, but not free either.
It cannot be overstated that it is in every individual's best interest to minimise his or her exposure to debt. Interest-bearing obligations of any sort make your life harder and someone else's life easier. Whether you believe there is any sort of calculated malevolence to it or not, that is what it comes down to in the end. |
7shining7one7
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.01.25 10:58:00 -
[44]
i realize this thread is about the illegal fed's operations, but i can't help but comment on the technocracy crowd..
THATS EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT ULTIMATELY.. technocracy is just another term for control by the elite, only it will be more cynical and worse than it is now and just as corrupt if not more.
socalled "freedom fighter" movies like zeitgeist is really complete nwo propaganda and nwo 1 world religion wrapped a pretense fight against oppression so that you listen intently to the "alternatives" presented in those movies. it's a way to catch the stragglers that are beginning to realize some serious **** is going on.. and nudging them towards the nwo propaganda before they really start to clue in, so that these ppl think they are fighting for their freedom and a better world, but are actually just promoting a later stage and won't see it till it hits, if allowed to..
there's reasons why some people have started to think that technocracy is a good thing, it's not something you developed on your own in your own mind.. don't be the fool. |
Nebulous
Minmatar
Thukker Zoku
|
Posted - 2009.01.25 12:02:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Nebulous on 25/01/2009 12:07:24
Originally by: 7shining7one7
there's reasons why some people have started to think that technocracy is a good thing, it's not something you developed on your own in your own mind.. don't be the fool.
I agree with a lot of stuff you say about the system and so on but this I don't agree, firstly Zeitgeist 1 or 2 does not at any point mention Technocracy, secondly I researched Technocracy long before I had the internet and found it of my own free will, I have been to a few meetings over the years and much of it makes perfect sense.
Secondly I disagree with the term "new world order" when you mention a technate, it is world unification, our current system is corrupt an openly encourages us to f*** each other over, this then spreads worldwide with countries hating each other and fighting over rescources, as "humans" we need to stop seeing ourselves as seperate entities via country seperation, I was born on this "planet" and this "planet" belongs to everyone that lives on it, we need to respect it and embrace the social benefits of unification.
Thirdly the "elite" despise Technocracy and have openly condemned it on many occasions, our current system only allows you to be as free as the amount of money you have, that means the super rich or elite are in a higher state of freedom than those beneath them, a Technocracy puts an end to such a ridiculous system of waste, greed and disrespect of nature.
And lastly there is no suggestion you or anyone else can make to solve the money driven system, for it still allows for greed, waste, war, crime and numerous other amounts of social degredation, you can not remove those negatives from the system while we still use money.
Edit: P.S. I like the idea of Technocracy but I wouldnt say it is the perfect answer, it's foundations are good but could still use more thinking, if all the alternate economic think tanks get together and talk about it seriously then I believe a solution can arise from it that benefits evryone.
Cheers
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7shining7one7
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.01.25 13:02:00 -
[46]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 25/01/2009 13:05:16
Originally by: Nebulous
Edited by: Nebulous on 25/01/2009 12:08:31
Edited by: Nebulous on 25/01/2009 12:07:24
Originally by: 7shining7one7
there's reasons why some people have started to think that technocracy is a good thing, it's not something you developed on your own in your own mind.. don't be the fool.
I agree with a lot of stuff you say about the system and so on but this I don't agree, firstly Zeitgeist 1 or 2 does not at any point mention Technocracy, I researched Technocracy long before I had the internet and found it of my own free will, I have been to a few meetings over the years and much of it makes perfect sense.
Secondly I disagree with the term "new world order" when you mention a technate, it is world unification, our current system is corrupt an openly encourages us to f*** each other over, this then spreads worldwide with countries hating each other and fighting over rescources, as "humans" we need to stop seeing ourselves as seperate entities via country seperation, I was born on this "planet" and this "planet" belongs to everyone that lives on it, we need to respect it and embrace the social benefits of unification.
Thirdly the "elite" despise Technocracy and have openly condemned it on many occasions, our current system only allows you to be as free as the amount of money you have, that means the super rich or elite are in a higher state of freedom than those beneath them, a Technocracy puts an end to such a ridiculous system of waste, greed and disrespect of nature.
And lastly there is no suggestion you or anyone else can make to solve the money driven system, for it still allows for greed, waste, war, crime and numerous other amounts of social degredation, you can not remove those negatives from the system while we still use money.
Edit: P.S. I like the idea of Technocracy but I wouldnt say it is the perfect answer, it's foundations are good but could still use more thinking, if all the alternate economic think tanks get together and talk about it seriously then I believe a solution can arise from it that benefits evryone.
Cheers
--------------------------------
they condemn it publicly in order for you to adopt it because you think it then goes against what they want..
zeitgeist addendum weither you like it or not, is utter nwo propaganda hiding as a rebel information video. you got machines that will run more and more coupled with technocracy, the more machines the better as far as the elite is concerned, then they don't have to manipulate general ppl or worry that they might change their mind and realize what's going on. also then they can use machines as their armies and as their constructors and get rid of the "useless eaters".
i'm sry if you can't accept that you've been "had" by the zeitgeist movies, but a lie or a bad/decieving argument is allways best hidden between two truths..
oh and "think tanks" = nwo influencers.. if you actually take anything they tell you as wise and/or benign, then you're in deep trouble.
i'll reiterate in case you missed it.
indeed there will be a time for such things but if the foundation is taken care of, then much more ingenious solutions than any of what the dumbed down populace (yes even the smart ones are severely dumbed down relative to their full capacity, that means you are dumbed down too weither you like it or not or weither you know it or not) currently provides.. will present itself.. fix the real problem and the symptoms will dissapear aswell.
untill this fundamental redistribution of information and an alteration in the mode of understanding and cooperation within the social structure of civilization has been undertaken, any suggestion for other governmental structures are completely and utterly null and void. |
Nebulous
Minmatar
Thukker Zoku
|
Posted - 2009.01.25 13:38:00 -
[47]
Originally by: 7shining7one7
i'm sry if you can't accept that you've been "had" by the zeitgeist movies, but a lie or a bad/decieving argument is allways best hidden between two truths..
Sorry I don't think you read what I posted, I said I learned about technocracy of my own free will over ten years ago, also as I previously said "at no point do either of the zeitgeist movies mention Technocracy", not at any point have I praised or condoned anything that has been said in Zeitgeist.
I still don't think your looking at the bigger picture, money is still the largest cause of the current world degradation at all levels, you can not and will not find a solution to today's problems while money is still in circulation.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
untill this fundamental redistribution of information and an alteration in the mode of understanding and cooperation within the social structure of civilization has been undertaken, any suggestion for other governmental structures are completely and utterly null and void. since more ideal structures will be formed by the former cooperation and sharing of information, rather than by another idiotic hierachical model based on lack of wisdom and filled with corruption.
I'm not sure how much you know about Technocracy, it encourages a pure education where you are educated for the good of everyone. Lets take mathematics for example, you don't learn how it works to benefit mankind do you? No! You learn it so you can be good at handling money and aid you in getting a better job, which will then earn you more money than the person stood next to you if he fails at mathematics, this isnt how it should be, your education should be taught to you without being graded, this only causes uneeded competitiveness and also humiliation for the person who gets graded poorly. No matter how you look at it, it always leads back to making you earn more money which inturn makes you feel more free.
Technocracy also does not encourage hierachy despite what you may think and I can assure you the "elite" do despise it, the elite are well suited to the money system for it allows for class division, class division then puts them at the top, how can you be "elite" when everyone is equal.
Cheers
|
7shining7one7
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.01.25 13:57:00 -
[48]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 25/01/2009 13:57:25
Originally by: Nebulous
Technocracy also does not encourage hierachy despite what you may think and I can assure you the "elite" do despise it, the elite are well suited to the money system for it allows for class division, class division then puts them at the top, how can you be "elite" when everyone is equal.
Cheers
i know that you are not aware of the ordos ab chaos (problem reaction solution) method of operation of the elite and thus fail to see that the solution they present and "presume to hate and dislike" is the one you are picking..
do you see the tie ins to carbon foot print (which is a big lie btw.), and the class division that "doesn't exist" in technocrazy only it does but it's never mentioned.. is an excellent way to hide, because in this system their secret society network is completely untrackable.. whereas now atleast you can see who their puppets are and so on.
a global unification is only meaningful if the world was peaceful before it took place and if it was decided in peace.
a global unification is false and tyrannical and will solve nothing if it was decided in wars and oppression.
untill each country can exist aswell as get along with every other country, global unification is meaningless and false.
|
Glarion Garnier
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2009.01.25 15:36:00 -
[49]
shining tells it as it is.. Many thanks. I would be pround to call you a friend IRL. |
David Kang
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Posted - 2009.01.25 15:57:00 -
[50]
Originally by: 7shining7one7
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 25/01/2009 14:30:55
Originally by: Nebulous
Technocracy also does not encourage hierachy despite what you may think and I can assure you the "elite" do despise it, the elite are well suited to the money system for it allows for class division, class division then puts them at the top, how can you be "elite" when everyone is equal.
Cheers
i know that you are not aware of the ordo ab chao (engineered order out of engineered chaos / problem reaction solution) method of operation of the elite and thus fail to see that the solution they present and "presume to hate and dislike" is the one you are picking..
do you see the tie ins to carbon foot print (which is a big lie btw.), and the class division that "doesn't exist" in technocracy only it does but it's never mentioned.. is an excellent way to hide, because in this system their secret society network is completely untrackable if not shut down.. whereas now atleast you can see fairly clear who their puppets are and so on.
a global unification is only meaningful if the world was peaceful before it took place and if it was decided in peace.
a global unification is false and tyrannical and will solve nothing if it was decided in wars and oppression.
untill each country can exist aswell as get along with every other country, global unification is meaningless and false, in any way shape or form that it presumes to take place.
i'll add two philosophical gems for you:
"Never form attachments to your beliefs that are unbreakable in the face of a higher, more sensible truth."
"The way to truth is to express your spiritual inheritance, the inheritance that exists in this present moment as divine and eternal conciousness, and cannot be classified or defined and has no affiliation with anything other than its fellow souls, spirit and creator, may this serve as your pathway."
"Nothing is exact. Even nothingness. Beneath quintessence is the essence. There is a thread woven of dark energy and dark matter that you could call infinity. The formula is encoded below, partial at time it will grow"
"the most ancient flows to its source."
Sorry but..
"There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance"
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a life time"
"People of the same trade seldom meet together even in for merit and diversion but the conversion ends in a conspiracy against the public"
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Goose Formation
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Posted - 2009.01.25 16:58:00 -
[51]
As amused as I am by talk of NWO and globalisation, not to mention the ideas of Technocracy, I might add the the most sensible way to deal with the mess, is to chuckle at it, and be prepared to knock it down if it comes to that.
Opt out; Don't let the system fence you in. By fence in I mean don't let it hold you by commitment, or oppression. All debts that were forced on you are just a way of keeping you in control. Money is a way of turning your energy, your very life, into something that others can feed on and hoard.
Arm up; Keep yourself ready so that when they try to force you, you can resist. Get some training, at the gov't expense, and stand ready to do what you have to to stay free.
Keep watch; Keep an eye on things, and be ready to act if necessary. Form bonds with people you trust, with these people stand ready to take action if the social contract becomes to onerous. Above all, do not give up the means to resist.
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2009.01.25 18:49:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Raktar Medovski
Yeah, cause China like, didn't edit the part of Obama's speech where he talked about communism and totalitarianism.
And you mean the part where the West keep blaming China for Tibet while having their beautiful Extraordinary Renditions and concentration camps such as Guantanamo Bay. How many windows did you just break throwing stones?
Communism = state controlled Capitalism
Totalitarianism = Domestic Spying Programme
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libertarian cole
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Posted - 2009.01.26 00:48:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Super Whopper
Originally by: Brea Lafail
Im still shocked that the Land of The Free Market made so much public funds available to private banks. I just hope someone ends up in jail for it, even though I know no one will be held accountable (and if they are, it'll be a scapegoat).
It's called free market corruption. What's funny is that everyone in the brainwashed West calls China corrupt while the US is the most corrupt country in the world.
Its called data:
http://www.transparency.org/news_room/in_focus/2008/cpi2008/cpi_2008_table
USA ranked 18
China ranked 72
(last place) Somalia ranked 180 |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 00:54:00 -
[54]
What the transparency index really measures is democratisation of corruption. At the bottom of the scale, any old Tom, **** or Harry can slip a few papers to an official over a trifling matter. At the top of the scale, that privilege is afforded only to the influential and can concern matters of state. It is measuring something alright. But nothing to boast about. |
Nebulous
Minmatar
Thukker Zoku
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 07:31:00 -
[55]
Originally by: David Kang
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a life time"
Translated into modern terms, "Teach a man to fish and he will get some friends together and buy a trawler, they will then overfish a certain species until it's endangered or extinct, of the fish they do catch half or more will be wasted and only be available to those who can AFFORD to buy it."
And what does the above lead back to? You guessed it!! MONEY!
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Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 07:35:00 -
[56]
In theory communism works also.
In practice ...
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Thukker Zoku
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 08:33:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Carniflex
In theory communism works also.
In practice ...
I find it strange how people try to differentiate communism from any other government type we have at the moment, they are all fundamentaly the same, for they all revolve around a system dependent on money and that is why communism fails as badly as the others, i'd disagree it works in theory anyway.
The differance with a technate is that it is an idea based on practical common sense solutions as opposed to a political self obsessed solution.
---------------------------------------------
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Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 11:12:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Nebulous
Originally by: Carniflex
In theory communism works also.
In practice ...
I find it strange how people try to differentiate communism from any other government type we have at the moment, they are all fundamentaly the same, for they all revolve around a system dependent on money and that is why communism fails as badly as the others, i'd disagree it works in theory anyway.
The differance with a technate is that it is an idea based on practical common sense solutions as opposed to a political self obsessed solution.
---------------------------------------------
Communism comes usually up in that kind of discussions bcos in theory it's rather nice. In practice you usually get gulag as a result.
The point is. You can not create 'goverment' without humans. Whatever ideology you try that is in theory cool it tends to fall apart at the point where individual humans get involevd. Democracy and Republic do not work very well either, main problem is those is corruption and populism (there is nothing wrong doing stuff that 'the people' want, problems start when you do it for immediate gratification sacrificing your future options to win elections next month and leave the dealing with added crap whoever happens to be elected afterwards).
Technological versions of democracy (ie 'true democracy' with internet and stuff) all assume that you have perfectly informed voters. In practice it would be 'terror of the masses' or very serious case of populism. I imagine that if someone would manage to start vote 'free beer for all' in that system you would soon have law that is stating that beer must be free.
All kinds of systems based on assumption that 'enlightened few' lead the unwashed masses are very vunerable to corruption.
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Thukker Zoku
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 12:11:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Carniflex
Communism comes usually up in that kind of discussions bcos in theory it's rather nice. In practice you usually get gulag as a result.
The point is. You can not create 'goverment' without humans. Whatever ideology you try that is in theory cool it tends to fall apart at the point where individual humans get involevd. Democracy and Republic do not work very well either, main problem is those is corruption and populism (there is nothing wrong doing stuff that 'the people' want, problems start when you do it for immediate gratification sacrificing your future options to win elections next month and leave the dealing with added crap whoever happens to be elected afterwards).
Technological versions of democracy (ie 'true democracy' with internet and stuff) all assume that you have perfectly informed voters. In practice it would be 'terror of the masses' or very serious case of populism. I imagine that if someone would manage to start vote 'free beer for all' in that system you would soon have law that is stating that beer must be free.
All kinds of systems based on assumption that 'enlightened few' lead the unwashed masses are very vunerable to corruption.
I see the point your trying to make, i'm not saying a technate = perfect and i'm not saying it will definately work, the point i'm mostly trying to make is that there is no viable solution to our current economic structure, there is no sweet spot when it comes to a money driven system, it will always allow greed, waste and social degradation.
Secondly people are lied to about freedom, people are fooled by democracy into believing such however, how can you have a choice when all you can vote for is political entities who all support the same money driven economic system? You are also only as free as the amount of money you have, yes I can walk out my door and walk to the shop, but what does that mean? Am I supposed to be grateful I can walk outside my door? Of course i'm not, that is ridiculous! In this system evryones freedom comes to an end once they run out of money, some run out of "freedom" before others and that is what contributes to social degradation amongst many other things in the money driven system.
------------------------------------------------ |
Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 13:37:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Nebulous
I see the point your trying to make, i'm not saying a technate = perfect and i'm not saying it will definately work, the point i'm mostly trying to make is that there is no viable solution to our current economic structure, there is no sweet spot when it comes to a money driven system, it will always allow greed, waste and social degradation.
Secondly people are lied to about freedom, people are fooled by democracy into believing such however, how can you have a choice when all you can vote for is political entities who all support the same money driven economic system? You are also only as free as the amount of money you have, yes I can walk out my door and walk to the shop, but what does that mean? Am I supposed to be grateful I can walk outside my door? Of course i'm not, that is ridiculous! In this system evryones freedom comes to an end once they run out of money, some run out of "freedom" before others and that is what contributes to social degradation amongst many other things in the money driven system.
------------------------------------------------
Overall I'm happy with current system. Life is damn good compared what it used to be. You see I'm old enough to have actually seen the collapse of Soviet Union and the last years before that. There was glasnost already (set of reforms and a bit more freedom) but before I went to school I was still instructed what to say as a response to political questions as my family did actually fear the KGB still. My grandparents had seen the soviet consentration camps and that is not something one is keen to see again ever. Compared to that the however imperfect democratic or republican system is damn good for the regular people who are just trying to live their everyday lives. Yeah it's not perfect but there is a lot worse options out there. Even if you have to pick between guys you know are corrupt and might look out for the corporate interests instead of citizens of whatever country they happen to be elected to rule over.
Power corrupts and absolute power leads to absolute corruption in my opinion. Thus it's sensible to keep the leaders exposure to power somewhat limited and have at least theoretical possibility that if leaders suck hard they might be held accountable for their actions.
Now as far as economy goes. Greed is in human nature so even if you trade in eggshells someone will have more of it than someone else. There is more or less periodic shakedowns where all those who do not have want to have and then it's taken from those to have and redistributed around if the assymetry goes far enough. In worst case you get something like october revolution in milder cases you get sweden. In my opinion sweet spot is somewhere in the middle. I like socialism to the degree as long as people who work hard are rewarded for their effort and those who do not are not entirely comfortable. Granted my exposure to actual economicks is limited at best. I'm just saying that one can do a lot worse than the current model with all it's flaws.
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Thukker Zoku
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 15:58:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Carniflex
Overall I'm happy with current system. Life is damn good compared what it used to be..
I do okay from this system also at the moment, I have a job, house and money, but for me that doesnt make it right, there are still millions of people around the world who are in poverty and/or starving because of the money system, just because your doing okay as an individual doesnt mean it's right, as humans we have a responsibility to take care of each other and not just ourselves.
Originally by: Carniflex
Greed is in human nature.
This is one of the biggest lies ever told, greed is a human behaviour "not" a human instinct. You are not born greedy, you learn it from the behaviour of others, and that behaviour is spawned from money.
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Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 05:13:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Nebulous
Originally by: Carniflex
Greed is in human nature.
This is one of the biggest lies ever told, greed is a human behaviour "not" a human instinct. You are not born greedy, you learn it from the behaviour of others, and that behaviour is spawned from money.
I ofc dont have any hard data to back up that claim. In my impression however you can not find human culture on this planet in any meaningful scale where someone does not have more resources than others in that group. Propably not even among our relatively close relatives apes or monkeys. Leaders tend to have more resources than others. In simplest case being the best fed in more complex cases having more 'money' than they need for survival. So in my opinion greed is human instict in that sense that all humans have it. Being uncompetitive is unnatural from the standpoint of evolution.
Ofc one could argue that even among primates this is learned behaviour and this would most likely to be correct to large degree. That is the nature of our species. Being human is more mental than biological process. The meat without learned behaviour patterns just is not competitive and besides, I think that from evolutionary standpoint having part of your species characterstiks non biological offers higher adabtibility.
Who knows, perhaps one day, should there be some trick to cheat the laws of nature (like having limited resources in the world) humanity will reach utopia. Until that day there will be wars and other bad stuff. |
Elora Danzik
Caldari
Ward-Tech Industries
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 18:04:00 -
[63]
I kinda got away from this post for a few days so I do feel the need to defend a positon.
The fed as private corp = true . Money and Banking undergrad course in my Economics major.
Our monetary system is based on debt. The Tresury creates a pice a paper prints a number on it and viola a T-bill is formed. These are given to the Fed who creates money based on the debt. The whole system is laid out in the movie. Geuss what my Money and Banking profess taught us the exact same thing.
also since most of the national debt is held by the fed. its money we owe ourselves.
https://tomsawyer.umsl.edu/webapps/courseschedules/descriptions/dsp_just_course_desc.cfm?subject=ECON&coursenum=3200
At the time I took it Lawrence H White was the professor. http://www.umsl.edu/~whitelh/
He was having some health problems so I don't know if he is still teaching as much.
My point is the movie lays out the basics. That is as far as I agree with it. I haven't watched the whole thing and probably won't.
This is the system we live in currently. It is a system that can not continue. The reason being is the attitudes are changing. People want a different system. Eventually, it may lead to a world without currency which is an ackward and stupid medium.
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7shining7one7
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 18:09:00 -
[64]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 27/01/2009 18:18:36
Originally by: Elora Danzik
I kinda got away from this post for a few days so I do feel the need to defend a positon.
The fed as private corp = true . Money and Banking undergrad course in my Economics major.
Our monetary system is based on debt. The Tresury creates a pice a paper prints a number on it and viola a T-bill is formed. These are given to the Fed who creates money based on the debt. The whole system is laid out in the movie. Geuss what my Money and Banking profess taught us the exact same thing.
also since most of the national debt is held by the fed. its money we owe ourselves.
https://tomsawyer.umsl.edu/webapps/courseschedules/descriptions/dsp_just_course_desc.cfm?subject=ECON&coursenum=3200
At the time I took it Lawrence H White was the professor. http://www.umsl.edu/~whitelh/
He was having some health problems so I don't know if he is still teaching as much.
My point is the movie lays out the basics. That is as far as I agree with it. I haven't watched the whole thing and probably won't.
This is the system we live in currently. It is a system that can not continue. The reason being is the attitudes are changing. People want a different system. Eventually, it may lead to a world without currency which is an ackward and stupid medium.
incorrect, the fed is a private corporation.. it's not money you owe yourselves.. it's money you owe the fed.. it owns your country and buys off your politicians with freshly printed money whilst using the IRS as their goonsquad, that was the scam that happened way back, that was the stuff andrew jackson and many others fought against, and that is the primary reason why stuff is f'ed up atm.. and they just robbed your country for 8 trillion and got you to blame yourself for it.. very well executed plan.. most ppl got taken.. and still believe it was the fault of the consumer or wall street...
wall streets are pawns that have as much luck as in a casino.. the market is rigged but as in a proper casino it looks like you have a chance and sometimes you win and sometimes you loose and mostly it looks like it's random and ppl make the most hilarious theories about stock trading and **** like that.. obsessing about the symptoms, trying to find a pattern in the organized chaos, whilst wearing blinders..
the economic teaching books are mostly full of nonsense and/or being exhillarated/obsessive about explaining/burrowing down into details about symptoms rather than causes, trying to keep the true workings of the banking system a secret.
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Elora Danzik
Caldari
Ward-Tech Industries
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 20:01:00 -
[65]
Originally by: 7shining7one7
incorrect, the fed is a private corporation.. it's not money you owe yourselves.. it's money you owe the fed.. it owns your country and buys off your politicians with freshly printed money whilst using the IRS as their goonsquad, that was the scam that happened way back, that was the stuff andrew jackson and many others fought against, and that is the primary reason why stuff is f'ed up atm.. and they just robbed your country for 8 trillion and got you to blame yourself for it.. very well executed plan.. most ppl got taken.. and still believe it was the fault of the consumer or wall street...
wall streets are pawns that have as much luck as in a casino.. the market is rigged but as in a proper casino it looks like you have a chance and sometimes you win and sometimes you loose and mostly it looks like it's random and ppl make the most hilarious theories about stock trading and **** like that.. obsessing about the symptoms, trying to find a pattern in the organized chaos, whilst wearing blinders..
the economic teaching books are mostly full of nonsense and/or being exhillarated/obsessive about explaining/burrowing down into details about symptoms rather than causes, trying to keep the true workings of the banking system a secret.
Fair enough. Course the point you are making are, while I finished a masters in Economics,why I haven't worked in the field.
Its all fictious system that we unfortunatly have to live with because Wilson wanted to be re-elected.
All central banks evoled because of one reason: someone figured out that if they contorl the money supply they control the country. Generally these people were polictically connected and put pressure at the right points.
All this to continue a debt system so that a few still control the many.
I both like and hate economics for showing me that.
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7shining7one7
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 20:11:00 -
[66]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 27/01/2009 20:16:13
Originally by: Elora Danzik
Originally by: 7shining7one7
incorrect, the fed is a private corporation.. it's not money you owe yourselves.. it's money you owe the fed.. it owns your country and buys off your politicians with freshly printed money whilst using the IRS as their goonsquad, that was the scam that happened way back, that was the stuff andrew jackson and many others fought against, and that is the primary reason why stuff is f'ed up atm.. and they just robbed your country for 8 trillion and got you to blame yourself for it.. very well executed plan.. most ppl got taken.. and still believe it was the fault of the consumer or wall street...
wall streets are pawns that have as much luck as in a casino.. the market is rigged but as in a proper casino it looks like you have a chance and sometimes you win and sometimes you loose and mostly it looks like it's random and ppl make the most hilarious theories about stock trading and **** like that.. obsessing about the symptoms, trying to find a pattern in the organized chaos, whilst wearing blinders..
the economic teaching books are mostly full of nonsense and/or being exhillarated/obsessive about explaining/burrowing down into details about symptoms rather than causes, trying to keep the true workings of the banking system a secret.
Fair enough. Course the point you are making are, while I finished a masters in Economics,why I haven't worked in the field.
Its all fictious system that we unfortunatly have to live with because Wilson wanted to be re-elected.
All central banks evoled because of one reason: someone figured out that if they contorl the money supply they control the country. Generally these people were polictically connected and put pressure at the right points.
All this to continue a debt system so that a few still control the many.
I both like and hate economics for showing me that.
exactly, so very true sir, i can relate. |
Luke Skyrider
DAB
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 21:32:00 -
[67]
The first step to truth are 'not knowing'. It's the 'question' not the 'answer' that lead to even greater truth.
People that believe in what they already 'know' have been indoctrinated and incapable to learn new things. The only thing we 'know' for sure are that we 'know' very little. Use this attitude and it'll start to open your eyes, I promise. The world are not 'evil' because we have 'evil' people but because the world are full of sheeps that blindly look to authority outside themself without critical thinking and personal discernment.
To many people has been exceptional lazy by not questioning the nature of reality and belief systems. Just because millions of people believe in something dont necessary make it true, that's sheep mentality. The same sheeple that watch TV 4 hours per day that makes them dumb not smarter. A popular phrase we use in Europe, 'Americans the most entertained and least informed'. Average Americans know more about Britney Bears and American idol than how their political system works.
The truth shall set you free but first you got to get angry
This clip from Network (1976) are pretty relevant.
Ignorance is not bliss, what you dont know can kill you. Want a life without cancer? Do a research on B17/laetril. Fear mongering (psychological warfare) and ignorance are the breeding ground for world tyranny just as Thomas Jefferson warned about. Nothing is more important in these times than to re-educate yourself, question your belief systems and encourage others to do the same. That's the way out of this horrendous mess. The good news are that the economy would be sound with a proper monetary system. The problem are not with the economy but that we have a 'phony economy' due to a flawed monetary system that plunder the producer. U.S became the most prosperous nation because of it's production industry, competitive capitalism and sound money. Now it has comsumed itself into bankruptcy with monopolized capitalism where big international bankers and multinational companies are running the show. It's a Coup d'Etat in slow motion where the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many.
To put things into perspective, consider what would happen if there was no money and people had to use old fashioned bartering for goods and services. Who would be the first to starve as they would have nothing to barter with?. Money is not wealth. The boom and burst cycles dont destroy wealth but tranfer it. There are winners and losers. Instead of falling into fear and dispair when the monetary system collapse see this as an opportunity to support a new fair monetary system rather than trying to keep a flawed system alive that dont serve the needs of the many.
To learn more about monetary policy, get started;
Movies:
Money, Banking and the Federal Reserve
(by http://mises.org/ and austrian economics. Ron Paul has been reading austrian economics for 30 years http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/)
Fiat Empire
The Money Master
Money As Debt
David Walker; US Government Immorality Will Lead to Bankruptcy
Books/website:
The creature from Jekyll Island
Web Of Debt
The Shock Doctrine
Confessions of an economic hitman (interview)
America's Debt Report |
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