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Can Flipping Bug

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Farrell Devin	Posted - 2009.01.24 04:32:00 - [1] So someone's can flipped on me twice before and I never "Stole" the ore back because I knew I'd loose in a fight but this just happened and thought others should be aware if they arn't already. I was mining into a jet-can after my secure containers had filled up and someone highlighted yellow started flying towards me. I knew that that meant he was gona can flip so I draged the ore back into my cargo to try to grab as much as possible. Obivously I couldn't carry the entire stack of ore that was in the can so I got the pop up window saying I couldn't carry that much and asked me how much I wanted. In the time it took the window to pop up and me to click "ok" he had can flipped the ore and instead of saying something like "That item is no longer there" it took the ore out of his can and flaged me as a thief and he blew up my ship. I just don't think it's right that I "Stole" from him when I never even clicked on his jet can.
Lexa Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.01.24 04:47:00 - [2] We know. We've been exploiting this for months.
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Horsemen of Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.01.24 04:50:00 - [3] Edited by: soldieroffortune 258 on 24/01/2009 04:50:49 Originally by: Lexa Hellfury We know. We've been exploiting this for months. riiiiiiight says the bitter can flipped miner on the off chance the quoted post isnt an alt of the OP, there is a bug that if two people take ore from the same can at the same time they are flagged to each other, ive heard about it a while ago EDIT: file a petition, there is a sliver of a chance that you may get your ship back because it was a bug
Farrell Devin	Posted - 2009.01.24 04:54:00 - [4] Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 riiiiiiight says the bitter can flipped miner on the off chance the quoted post isnt an alt of the OP, there is a bug that if two people take ore from the same can at the same time they are flagged to each other, ive heard about it a while ago EDIT: file a petition, there is a sliver of a chance that you may get your ship back because it was a bug I did file a petition and no that's not my alt. I have three characters and it's not difficult to tell that they're me. Ferrall Devin, Ferrall Fighter and Ferrall Hauler
Leiara Knight Gallente The Oblivion Guard	Posted - 2009.01.24 04:56:00 - [5] Sometimes, when nobody is around, I shoot my guns at asteroids and pretend I'm an NPC pirate.
Lexa Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.01.24 06:31:00 - [6] Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 Originally by: Lexa Hellfury We know. We've been exploiting this for months. riiiiiiight says the bitter can flipped miner huh?
Silent Sins Deliciously Vicious	Posted - 2009.01.24 07:38:00 - [7] Originally by: Leiara Knight Sometimes, when nobody is around, I shoot my guns at asteroids and pretend I'm an NPC pirate. quotin dis. ------------------------------ ******************** ------------------------------
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Horsemen of Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.01.24 07:44:00 - [8] Originally by: Lexa Hellfury Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 Originally by: Lexa Hellfury We know. We've been exploiting this for months. riiiiiiight says the bitter can flipped miner huh? acting like a can flipper and making a statement like that, kinda like a stealth can flipping nerf comment Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
Gregor Vernof Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.01.24 07:54:00 - [9] What you have experienced in client side lag. The "can flipper" had already moved the ore into their can, your client was lagging behind and still saw the ore in your can, you grabbed the ore (a "numbered" item in the database) and moved it to your hold. The database recognized this "numbered" item as being in the possession of the "can flipper" and assigned you a flag for "stealing" from the "can flipper". This is an unfortunate client side lag issue and is due to your isp being microscopically "slower" than the "can flippers" isp at that particular moment. You can petition this, but do not be surprised when the GMs tell you there is nothing they can do due to your "lag" issues. If you are "Hauler Alt" jetcan mining (mining into a jetcan with 1 unit of something in it to keep it open so another character in an Industrial can transfer it to their hold) and a "can flipper" comes up and drops a can next to yours and patiently waits to steal your ore during these transfer moments... MOVE ON, even if you are smart enough to not try to initiate combat when said "can flipper" flags to you.. You are running the risk of getting flagged to the "can flipper" and having your ship popped instantly.
Demitria Fernir Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.01.24 09:25:00 - [10] Originally by: Gregor Vernof Edited by: Gregor Vernof on 24/01/2009 07:55:33 What you have experienced in client side lag. The "can flipper" had already moved the ore into their can, your client was lagging behind and still saw the ore in your can, you grabbed the ore (a "numbered" item in the database) and moved it to your hold. The database recognized this "numbered" item as being in the possession of the "can flipper" and assigned you a flag for "stealing" from the "can flipper". This is an unfortunate client side lag issue and is due to your isp being microscopically "slower" than the "can flippers" isp at that particular moment. You can petition this, but do not be surprised when the GMs tell you there is nothing they can do due to your "lag" issues. Quotin _______________________________________________ 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101
Warrio Southern Cross Incorporated	Posted - 2009.01.24 13:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Leiara Knight Sometimes, when nobody is around, I shoot my guns at asteroids and pretend I'm an NPC pirate. ^^ sXe
Grunanca Mean Corp Mean Coalition	Posted - 2009.01.24 16:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Leiara Knight Sometimes, when nobody is around, I shoot my guns at asteroids and pretend I'm an NPC pirate. I guess you spend a lot of money buying new guns then?
Farrell Devin	Posted - 2009.01.24 16:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Gregor Vernof Edited by: Gregor Vernof on 24/01/2009 07:55:33 What you have experienced in client side lag. The "can flipper" had already moved the ore into their can, your client was lagging behind and still saw the ore in your can, you grabbed the ore (a "numbered" item in the database) and moved it to your hold. The database recognized this "numbered" item as being in the possession of the "can flipper" and assigned you a flag for "stealing" from the "can flipper". This is an unfortunate client side lag issue and is due to your isp being microscopically "slower" than the "can flippers" isp at that particular moment. You can petition this, but do not be surprised when the GMs tell you there is nothing they can do due to your "lag" issues. If you are "Hauler Alt" jetcan mining (mining into a jetcan with 1 unit of something in it to keep it open so another character in an Industrial can transfer it to their hold) and a "can flipper" comes up and drops a can next to yours and patiently waits to steal your ore during these transfer moments... MOVE ON, even if you are smart enough to not try to initiate combat when said "can flipper" flags to you. You are running the risk of getting flagged to the "can flipper" and having your ship popped instantly. My hauler alt is less than 2 days old, I don't have an indy yet with him. but that was the eventual plan. As for lag, I almost never lag. I've got a pretty powerful machine. I understand what happened i just don't think it should work that way.
JoeT Amarr Short Attention Span	Posted - 2009.01.24 16:58:00 - [14] Originally by: Farrell Devin Originally by: Gregor Vernof Edited by: Gregor Vernof on 24/01/2009 07:55:33 What you have experienced in client side lag. The "can flipper" had already moved the ore into their can, your client was lagging behind and still saw the ore in your can, you grabbed the ore (a "numbered" item in the database) and moved it to your hold. The database recognized this "numbered" item as being in the possession of the "can flipper" and assigned you a flag for "stealing" from the "can flipper". This is an unfortunate client side lag issue and is due to your isp being microscopically "slower" than the "can flippers" isp at that particular moment. You can petition this, but do not be surprised when the GMs tell you there is nothing they can do due to your "lag" issues. If you are "Hauler Alt" jetcan mining (mining into a jetcan with 1 unit of something in it to keep it open so another character in an Industrial can transfer it to their hold) and a "can flipper" comes up and drops a can next to yours and patiently waits to steal your ore during these transfer moments... MOVE ON, even if you are smart enough to not try to initiate combat when said "can flipper" flags to you. You are running the risk of getting flagged to the "can flipper" and having your ship popped instantly. My hauler alt is less than 2 days old, I don't have an indy yet with him. but that was the eventual plan. As for lag, I almost never lag. I've got a pretty powerful machine. I understand what happened i just don't think it should work that way. I think your confusing a bottleneck in your box for network issues. If its a network issue there is little to nothing you can do, unless we'll you own the whole path up to where it hits CCP router.
Gregor Vernof Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.01.24 19:12:00 - [15] Edited by: Gregor Vernof on 24/01/2009 19:12:09 Originally by: JoeT Originally by: Farrell Devin As for lag, I almost never lag. I've got a pretty powerful machine. I understand what happened i just don't think it should work that way. I think your confusing a bottleneck in your box for network issues. If its a network issue there is little to nothing you can do, unless we'll you own the whole path up to where it hits CCP router. This is exactly correct. This is not an issue with your computer, but rather the connection between your computer and the EVE server/database.
Kephael Caldari Rebel Rising Opprimo Vox	Posted - 2009.01.24 19:39:00 - [16] Make sure it's your can next time. __________________________________________
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.01.25 01:05:00 - [17] It happens a lot, while the can flipper can't actually 'make' it happen (as he doesn't know the exact time you grab your ore) I sure as hell try to time it a little bit. I petitioned myself once for doing it and the answer I got was "he stole from you, it's all ok". Riiiight, not that I'm complaining mind you.
Boomershoot Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2009.01.25 01:10:00 - [18] Edited by: Boomershoot on 25/01/2009 01:10:41 Originally by: Tzar'rim It happens a lot, while the can flipper can't actually 'make' it happen (as he doesn't know the exact time you grab your ore) expert flippers can actually make it happen, even if most of the work is made by pure luck, you can efficently predict the time it takes for them to react from the appearance of your ship in the belt, based on character name, age and corporation. EDIT: english. i suck at it. ______________________________________________
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.01.25 01:16:00 - [19] Originally by: Boomershoot Edited by: Boomershoot on 25/01/2009 01:10:41 Originally by: Tzar'rim It happens a lot, while the can flipper can't actually 'make' it happen (as he doesn't know the exact time you grab your ore) expert flippers can actually make it happen, even if most of the work is made by pure luck, you can efficently predict the time it takes for them to react from the appearance of your ship in the belt, based on character name, age and corporation. EDIT: english. i suck at it. Don't talk BS, "gee he's 2 months old so I gotta wait 2.3 seconds... no no, he's actually FOUR months, so it's 2.1 seconds!"
Boomershoot Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2009.01.25 01:22:00 - [20] Originally by: Tzar'rim Originally by: Boomershoot Edited by: Boomershoot on 25/01/2009 01:10:41 Originally by: Tzar'rim It happens a lot, while the can flipper can't actually 'make' it happen (as he doesn't know the exact time you grab your ore) expert flippers can actually make it happen, even if most of the work is made by pure luck, you can efficently predict the time it takes for them to react from the appearance of your ship in the belt, based on character name, age and corporation. EDIT: english. i suck at it. Don't talk BS, "gee he's 2 months old so I gotta wait 2.3 seconds... no no, he's actually FOUR months, so it's 2.1 seconds!" "approximation" anyone? ______________________________________________
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.01.25 01:27:00 - [21] So you're going to 'make it happen' based on his age and corp. Variables like him being fully afk or not, his connection, wether he's watching a movie while mining or getting a phonecall, perhaps a BJ. ALL those variables are taken out of the picture by 'expert can flippers" and they can pinpoint exactly when to take the ore as to get his hauler char blinky. If you're guesstimating it's not exactly a sience, now is it, especially since the window of opportunity is quite short.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.01.25 01:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Boomershoot "approximation" anyone? Sounds more like paranoia or delirium to me. Seriously tho, it's not brain surgery. Some miners are more/less active than others, there's no way in hell you can tell without a) previous experience with that particular pilot, and b) extended previous experience. And even with that, the more they tend to afk the bigger the propability that you will guess wrong. Because that's what you're talking about, guessing, not some pre-planned psychic meta-attacks. No offense, but if you seriously believe that, I bet my shrink would love to get her hands deep into your skull. As for the topic, and the guy talking about him 'lagging'. Yah it seems like there's a delay issue. But since there's no warning, like there is when you take stuff from other people, it's clearly a bug as well. Servers have means to handle delays, they expect delays. Warning messages should (and normally do) pop up even if there's delays (like when you're asked if you want to shoot someone, or want to jump through a gate to lower security, etc), traffic-/network wise. In this case there's no warning.. hmm, so there's a weakness in the code here? Bug report. You might not get your stuff back, but you might solve the issue. Either way, got to say it's a pretty amusing little bug.
Boomershoot Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2009.01.25 01:39:00 - [23] Originally by: Tzar'rim So you're going to 'make it happen' based on his age and corp. Variables like him being fully afk or not, his connection, wether he's watching a movie while mining or getting a phonecall, perhaps a BJ. ALL those variables are taken out of the picture by 'expert can flippers" and they can pinpoint exactly when to take the ore as to get his hauler char blinky. If you're guesstimating it's not exactly a sience, now is it, especially since the window of opportunity is quite short. if you're mining, and you're not at the computer, or have something else to do, you'll get canflipped anyway. but, in case you're not, you might be flagged by this method. either way, taking limit cases, i could actually make 10 flag streak with some lag and some luck... ______________________________________________
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.01.25 01:43:00 - [24] ... which has nothing to do with his ingame age, especially when there's about 15 bazillion alts out there. Just stop it, you tried to make a point which has NO basis whatsoever with the variables you stated. And now you're trying to defend it to the hilt. @Misanth; I've never actually gotten a proper C/D if they got the "are you sure you want to do this" when it happened. If they don't then it's rather sh!tty .
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.01.25 01:47:00 - [25] Originally by: Tzar'rim @Misanth; I've never actually gotten a proper C/D if they got the "are you sure you want to do this" when it happened. If they don't then it's rather sh!tty . I'm too drunk and tired to try to think again, last post started before yours, and you see it landed here like some ~10min after yours. I prolly need some sleep to comprehend what you just said, or get some coffee into my system. I'll head to bed, there's some space there if you wanna keep up the convo, but I'm afraid I'll be snoring pretty soon. Else we can take this in the morning. If nothing else it'll be coffee then. flips ca.. oh, pillow
Gregor Vernof Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.01.25 02:09:00 - [26] Originally by: Misanth... But since there's no warning, like there is when you take stuff from other people, it's clearly a bug as well.... In this case there's no warning.. hmm, so there's a weakness in the code here? Bug report. You might not get your stuff back, but you might solve the issue.[/quote How many of us have turned off the various messages sometime in the past and then act surprised that we didn't get the message some time when we weren't paying attention properly and got smacked by something? Bug report it, petition it, but I'm almost positive this hasn't been deemed an exploit, at least I wasn't able to find anything "official."
Boomershoot Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2009.01.25 02:57:00 - [27] Originally by: Tzar'rim ... which has nothing to do with his ingame age, especially when there's about 15 bazillion alts out there. Just stop it, you tried to make a point which has NO basis whatsoever with the variables you stated. And now you're trying to defend it to the hilt. Character age tells you a lot of thing. If they're relatively new, they'll be somewhat slower than a normal eve-addict, and will be probably mining in a can or, rarely, in a GSC. older players will have access to barges, and therefore will be your "easy pick". you can see them alone, sometimes in groups and with industrials attached. they may be alts, even if they rarely can-mine anymore. hulk pilots are very well known to fly back and forth from belt to station with strange names. over that, you can now see sporadic group of miners around orcas. if they're alts, you won't probably have the chance to flip any can (BUT still, people are stupid) unless they want you to take it or if they're not minding the game (BJ > EVE tbh). age tells you a lot of things about someone's mining technique, not all, but newer players flying mining frigates or procurers sure tells you they're probably not alts (BUT still, people are stupid) ______________________________________________
Psiri	Posted - 2009.01.25 07:21:00 - [28] Originally by: Tzar'rim It happens a lot, while the can flipper can't actually 'make' it happen (as he doesn't know the exact time you grab your ore) I sure as hell try to time it a little bit. Bull****, it's just dumb luck wether or not he will do it and if so do it the moment you flip his can (ie. as quickly as possible). It's a flawed mechanic and should be fixed, period.
Agor Dirdonen	Posted - 2009.01.25 12:29:00 - [29] Originally by: Farrell Devin As for lag, I almost never lag. I've got a pretty powerful machine. I understand what happened i just don't think it should work that way. That's like saying... "I don't loose time with traffic jams on the roads cause I drive a sports car. It can go really fast".
Oudi Hong	Posted - 2009.01.25 12:52:00 - [30] i had the same bug 2 times in 2 days from 2 completely different ppl its not the stolen ore i care about,afterall its part of the game and can flippers do something that is allowed by game mechanics and its their "right" to do it if they want to..what makes me angry is not having the right to shoot at them maybe i will lose the fight maybe not,but that bug denies the "victim" its right to retaliate

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