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ECM ECCM Is just ****ed

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Scurvy Pestilential	Posted - 2009.01.25 20:10:00 - [1] It sickens me as a Minmatar that webbing so nerfed to the point of near uselessness, and yet ECMs were not even considered to be overpowered in any way. My corp just got blobbed by an all too regular style of fleet that we see now. 21 gang members, a QUARTER of which were Falcons! We didn't even get a shot off as we were all perma-jammed! How is this possibly fun? When blobs can make risk free attacks on groups of ships without ANY danger to themselves? Shouldn't you at the very least be able to fight back? This is no where near possible with the increasingly number of fleets that consist of large amount of Falcons. I don't mind losing my ship, UNLESS I am losing it while being totally denied the opportunity to even fight back! ECCM is nothing more then a joke, completely unaffective even if you sacrifice half your mid-slots for them. When is CCP going to do something about this? Soon you're going to see nothing but Falcon fleets, as the only way to win is to have more Falcons then the other fleet. Either falcons needs a serious nerfing, or the whole ECM thing just needs looking at again, or even better, REMOVING!
mcnuggetlol Amarr Cold Blooded Killers	Posted - 2009.01.25 20:20:00 - [2] How many ****ing ecm threads do we need?
Scurvy Pestilential	Posted - 2009.01.25 20:22:00 - [3] Edited by: Scurvy Pestilential on 25/01/2009 20:23:06 AS many as it takes to **ing sort it out! It's not even in the list of things to be considered, so I'd say A LOT **ING MORE!
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2009.01.25 20:29:00 - [4] if there are support ships like ECM just take some anti-support-ships in your fleet. ECM threads are for dogs
Scurvy Pestilential	Posted - 2009.01.25 20:40:00 - [5] Originally by: Robert Caldera if there are support ships like ECM just take some anti-support-ships in your fleet. ECM threads are for dogs Do you honestly believe it's right that every fleet no matter how small or big has to base its entire logistics around being 'Falcon Safe'? Why should one ship alone wield so much power over the success or failure of a battle? CCP may as well just change this game's name to 'Falcons Online'.
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.25 21:04:00 - [6] Originally by: Scurvy Pestilential I got pwned and I just want to change the game! Oh well... Originally by: Scurvy Pestilential CCP may as well just change this game's name to 'Falcons Online'. No, it's "Whiners online: Fixing everything".
Scurvy Pestilential	Posted - 2009.01.25 21:09:00 - [7] Edited by: Scurvy Pestilential on 25/01/2009 21:10:49 Originally by: Colonel Xaven I'm so retared I think the entire game should be based around Falcons. I don't have anything intelligent or constructive to add, but I can change your quote, and it makes me look really clever! Hey well good for you.
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.25 21:11:00 - [8] You make yourself looking stupid. Sorry, no cookie.
Scurvy Pestilential	Posted - 2009.01.25 21:12:00 - [9] Originally by: Colonel Xaven You make yourself looking stupid. Sorry, no cookie. Don't want to make myself looking stupid! ROFL
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2009.01.25 21:28:00 - [10] Edited by: Robert Caldera on 25/01/2009 21:34:55 ECM whiners look stupid generally... ECM is for the purpose there to lock down nmy forces, which is not prepared deserves to die. Maybe CCP should add some more ECM-ships for Caldari in order to weaken the "one single ship overpowered"-argument.

Tai Paktu Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.01.25 21:34:00 - [11] Originally by: mcnuggetlol How many ****ing ecm threads do we need? Probably around the same number it took before nanos were nerfed...which doesn't bode well for the near future of the EvE-O forums. That having been said, I'd be very interested the compare the posting histories of people saying "ECM is fine n00b! lrn2play" and see if they were the ones saying "nerf nano plx." But that's way too much :effort:
Kel Nissa	Posted - 2009.01.25 21:37:00 - [12] Just to be curious - how many of you fitted an eccm? I talk about exactly one eccm not about the option to fit more then one. Or should i interprete your post like: you had an equal number of pilots (21) and everyone got 1 eccm? 6 hostile falcons permajammed you. Suggestion: Your enemies should go to a casino. They will be rich for sure. Another suggestion: Complain about armor hardeners and reppers - they eat up most of the low slots if your ship is armor tanked. Or complain about the shield modules, because enemies should not be possible to penetrate your shield so easy because the equip eats up all med slots.
Scurvy Pestilential	Posted - 2009.01.25 21:40:00 - [13] Originally by: Robert Caldera Edited by: Robert Caldera on 25/01/2009 21:34:55 ECM whiners look stupid generally... ECM is for the purpose there to lock down nmy forces, which is not prepared deserves to die. Maybe CCP should add some more ECM-ships for Caldari in order to weaken the "one single ship overpowered"-argument. Fix overpowerd ECM ships by adding more overpowered ECM ships? Yeah, possibly the stupidest idea I've seen yet.
Scurvy Pestilential	Posted - 2009.01.25 21:44:00 - [14] Originally by: Kel Nissa Just to be curious - how many of you fitted an eccm? I talk about exactly one eccm not about the option to fit more then one. Or should i interprete your post like: you had an equal number of pilots (21) and everyone got 1 eccm? 6 hostile falcons permajammed you. Suggestion: Your enemies should go to a casino. They will be rich for sure. Another suggestion: Complain about armor hardeners and reppers - they eat up most of the low slots if your ship is armor tanked. Or complain about the shield modules, because enemies should not be possible to penetrate your shield so easy because the equip eats up all med slots. So you're suggesting that everyone should fly around with TWO ECCMs the whole time?
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2009.01.25 21:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Scurvy Pestilential Fix overpowerd ECM ships by adding more overpowered ECM ships? Yeah, possibly the stupidest idea I've seen yet. the aren't overpowered. The whiners just refusing to use existing countermeasures like ECCM and anti-support ships. If you fit tank, why dont you fit ECCM if it's such a pain?
Scurvy Pestilential	Posted - 2009.01.25 21:52:00 - [16] Originally by: Robert Caldera Originally by: Scurvy Pestilential Fix overpowerd ECM ships by adding more overpowered ECM ships? Yeah, possibly the stupidest idea I've seen yet. the aren't overpowered. The whiners just refusing to use existing countermeasures like ECCM and anti-support ships. If you fit tank, why dont you fit ECCM if it's such a pain? For your information, I did, and it was **** all use. No amount of ECCM is going to be enough to stop the Falcon heavy blobs roaming around. In fact, the only viable solution is to have an equally strong force of Falcons. Again, the point is that fights are increasingly based around 'who brought the most Falcons'. In your magical world, I'm sure everyone has at least 2 ECCMs fitted the whole time, in reality it's just not practical to have to base every fitting you have on the possibilty of Falcons!
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2009.01.25 22:06:00 - [17] Edited by: Robert Caldera on 25/01/2009 22:08:13 Originally by: Scurvy Pestilential In fact, the only viable solution is to have an equally strong force of Falcons. Again, the point is that fights are increasingly based around 'who brought the most Falcons'. whats new to "who brought more <ship xyz> wins"?? Since the EW is a complementary element to damage you must handle it or die. Originally by: Scurvy Pestilential For your information, I did, and it was ** all use. No amount of ECCM is going to be enough to stop the Falcon heavy blobs roaming around. you want a single module for neutralizing a complete ship designed around jamming?? Thats the same I wanted a single module for neutralizing all the guns mounted on your armageddon or whatever lol. Originally by:** Scurvy Pestilential I'm sure everyone has at least 2 ECCMs fitted the whole time, in reality it's just not practical to have to base every fitting you have on the possibilty of Falcons! what I said.. you have all the ressources but refuse using them, then dont whine. "only of possibility of falcons" is some way conflicting to all that whine falcons were everywhere... If I dont fit tank I dont whine after getting gunned down
Scurvy Pestilential	Posted - 2009.01.25 22:45:00 - [18] Originally by: Robert Caldera Edited by: Robert Caldera on 25/01/2009 22:08:13 Originally by: Scurvy Pestilential In fact, the only viable solution is to have an equally strong force of Falcons. Again, the point is that fights are increasingly based around 'who brought the most Falcons'. whats new to "who brought more <ship xyz> wins"?? Since the EW is a complementary element to damage you must handle it or die. The fact that one Falcon can disable multiple ships, multiple Falcons will utterly dominate. That's the difference, and that's why we're seeing fleets with excessive amount of Falcons! If it wasn't a distinct advantage people wouldn't be exploiting it! Why are you so ignorant of this fact? Originally by: Scurvy Pestilential For your information, I did, and it was ** all use. No amount of ECCM is going to be enough to stop the Falcon heavy blobs roaming around. you want a single module for neutralizing a complete ship designed around jamming?? Thats the same I wanted a single module for neutralizing all the guns mounted on your armageddon or whatever lol. Did I say that? THe first sign of a weak ass argument is when you start having to put words in people's mouths, and then adding 'lol' at the end of it. What I actually said was it was over powered - especially in reference to Falcons, which it is. Originally by:** Scurvy Pestilential I'm sure everyone has at least 2 ECCMs fitted the whole time, in reality it's just not practical to have to base every fitting you have on the possibilty of Falcons! what I said.. you have all the ressources but refuse using them, then dont whine. "only of possibility of falcons" is some way conflicting to all that whine falcons were everywhere... If I dont fit tank I dont whine after getting gunned down For your sake I hope you're being deliverately ignorant and stupid. When I say 'fitting for the possibilty of Falcons', in your world of 'you have the tools so use the', it means we'd ALWAYS have to fit double ECCMs, because of the likelihood of encountering them. Again I ask, why should every fit you make have to make allowences for Falcons? NO OTHER SHIP in the game dictates game play in this way. Why do you think Falcons should be so special?
Nnamuachs Caldari Kiith Paktu	Posted - 2009.01.25 22:56:00 - [19] Falcons usually fit a full rack of jamming in the mids.. if you want to counteract a falcon you'll need one ECCM per ECM being used on you approximately.. this would be true if i was sensor dampening you, you'd need almost 1 for 1 sensor booster for every dampener an arazu/lach throws on you.. if people were swarming you with dampening you'd still be complaining because you want to neutralize an extremely specialized ship with a single module on your own, which isn't going to happen.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.25 23:34:00 - [20] Edited by: Murina on 25/01/2009 23:38:45 Originally by: Scurvy Pestilential My corp just got blobbed by an all too regular style of fleet that we see now. So you got owned by a blob suck it up noob. Originally by: Scurvy Pestilential 21 gang members, a QUARTER of which were Falcons! A gang of 21 with a mix of i assume a % of tacklers, 25% ewar and a % of dmg and even a % of logistics seems like a good balance tbh. Originally by: Scurvy Pestilential We didn't even get a shot off as we were all perma-jammed! I doubt that all of you were all "perma-jammed" unless their was very very few of you and if that was the case 21 normal ships would have owned you. Originally by: Scurvy Pestilential ECCM is nothing more then a joke, completely unaffective even if you sacrifice half your mid-slots for them. I would like a link to your or the enemies KB to see all your ship losses and see all the eccm units your ships had fitted......

OffBeaT Caldari KaMiKaZes	Posted - 2009.01.26 01:53:00 - [21] rokh snipers are real good falcon killers.. ecm jammers to i would think..
Johli Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.01.26 02:00:00 - [22] i concur, to further we should also restore ghost training, pos bowling, pos password doomsdaying, multi-mwd fitting, reverse the nanonerf, and extend CONCORD into lowsec.
Raven Timoshenko Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.01.26 03:50:00 - [23] Oh for heavens sake! There IS an effective counter to ECM. Its called REMOTE ECCM! Here is what you do: Take a drake, which is dirt cheap and doesnt need much in the way of skills, stick in as many remote ECCM mods in the mids as you like, and put omni ECCM on the lows. You can put in whatever suits your fancy on the highs. Now target your allies: A BS with just 2 T1 Remote ECCM boosters on it has MUCH EW ECCM STRENGTH AS A CARRIER!! The range of Remote ECCM is pretty long, and since Drakes are a) cheap, b) have pretty low skill requirements, and c) are mainly expected to be combat ships and not support. This means Drakes Rarely are the first to be targeted in a large enough fleet since most peeps will always place them lower on the threat list because of their better than average tanks and moderate damage. Jamming the ECCM drake is a *****, because if you filled up the lows with omni ECCM he has LOTS of EW Strenght as well! That means even if the falcon does keep him jammed, the falcon needs to use MORE EW on him than on other ships i.e more ECM used on one ship = less used on other ships. Dont like Remote ECCM? Try FOF Missiles! Stick an interceptor or fast frigate on anti-falcon duty, pop in a bunch of FOF missiles and watch the falcon get shredded unless he bugs out.
Johli Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.01.26 04:49:00 - [24] Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Oh for heavens sake! There IS an effective counter to ECM. Its called REMOTE ECCM! Here is what you do: Take a drake, which is dirt cheap and doesnt need much in the way of skills, stick in as many remote ECCM mods in the mids as you like, and put omni ECCM on the lows. You can put in whatever suits your fancy on the highs. Now target your allies: A BS with just 2 T1 Remote ECCM boosters on it has MUCH EW ECCM STRENGTH AS A CARRIER!! The range of Remote ECCM is pretty long, and since Drakes are a) cheap, b) have pretty low skill requirements, and c) are mainly expected to be combat ships and not support. This means Drakes Rarely are the first to be targeted in a large enough fleet since most peeps will always place them lower on the threat list because of their better than average tanks and moderate damage. Jamming the ECCM drake is a *****, because if you filled up the lows with omni ECCM he has LOTS of EW Strenght as well! That means even if the falcon does keep him jammed, the falcon needs to use MORE EW on him than on other ships i.e more ECM used on one ship = less used on other ships. Dont like Remote ECCM? Try FOF Missiles! Stick an interceptor or fast frigate on anti-falcon duty, pop in a bunch of FOF missiles and watch the falcon get shredded unless he bugs out. or this
Shade Millith International House of PWNCakes B.L.A.C.K.	Posted - 2009.01.26 06:48:00 - [25] Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Try FOF Missiles! Stick an interceptor or fast frigate on anti-falcon duty, pop in a bunch of FOF missiles and watch the falcon get shredded unless he bugs out. This. A falcon has a paper thin tank, if he feels threatened, he will leave. An intercepter is a threat as 1) It has a point and is very fast, a falcon that gets tackled will put ALL his jammers on the tackler to warp off, meaning the rest of your fleet isn't being jammed 2) Is a possible warp in point. For a 150Km+ falcon, an intercepter on top of you could mean a warp in for 3 intercepters.
Calis Kreios	Posted - 2009.01.26 08:25:00 - [26] ecm is fine... fight more wisely and run from blobs. just be glad it was not a fleet of scorpians for they are far more effective. caldari and minmitar are the 2 under dog race in combat so caldari has ecm to make them more even and minmitar still yet needs to find its nitch for they have suck most of eve existance.
Major Celine	Posted - 2009.01.26 08:33:00 - [27] Originally by: Calis Kreios ecm is fine... fight more wisely and run from blobs. just be glad it was not a fleet of scorpians for they are far more effective. caldari and minmitar are the 2 under dog race in combat so caldari has ecm to make them more even and minmitar still yet needs to find its nitch for they have suck most of eve existance. True. But wait what happens if Amarr whines go on...
Scurvy Pestilential	Posted - 2009.01.26 17:29:00 - [28] Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Oh for heavens sake! There IS an effective counter to ECM. Its called REMOTE ECCM! Here is what you do: Take a drake, which is dirt cheap and doesnt need much in the way of skills, stick in as many remote ECCM mods in the mids as you like, and put omni ECCM on the lows. You can put in whatever suits your fancy on the highs. Now target your allies: A BS with just 2 T1 Remote ECCM boosters on it has MUCH EW ECCM STRENGTH AS A CARRIER!! The range of Remote ECCM is pretty long, and since Drakes are a) cheap, b) have pretty low skill requirements, and c) are mainly expected to be combat ships and not support. This means Drakes Rarely are the first to be targeted in a large enough fleet since most peeps will always place them lower on the threat list because of their better than average tanks and moderate damage. Jamming the ECCM drake is a *****, because if you filled up the lows with omni ECCM he has LOTS of EW Strenght as well! That means even if the falcon does keep him jammed, the falcon needs to use MORE EW on him than on other ships i.e more ECM used on one ship = less used on other ships. Dont like Remote ECCM? Try FOF Missiles! Stick an interceptor or fast frigate on anti-falcon duty, pop in a bunch of FOF missiles and watch the falcon get shredded unless he bugs out. All ships Primary Raven Tomoshen's effective ECCM ship! No what?
Scurvy Pestilential	Posted - 2009.01.26 17:30:00 - [29] Originally by: Murina Edited by: Murina on 25/01/2009 23:38:45 Originally by: Scurvy Pestilential My corp just got blobbed by an all too regular style of fleet that we see now. So you got owned by a blob suck it up noob. Wow, you're such a **** troll you can't even think of anything original to say and have to copy a previous post!
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.26 17:34:00 - [30] Originally by: Scurvy Pestilential Originally by: Murina Originally by: Scurvy Pestilential My corp just got blobbed by an all too regular style of fleet that we see now. So you got owned by a blob suck it up noob. Wow, i am such a noob troll and can't even think of anything original to say so il ignore the rest of your post! fixed. Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Solo is all about skill not ship fits Originally by: Amira Shadowsong The anti inty fit is absolutely crap against cruisers and AFs.



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