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Is the Falcon really overpowered?

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lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.26 14:41:00 - [1] Originally by: Psiri Or maybe, they warp in on engagements at 100km (or better yet 200km away with a bookmark) and jam anything that threatens them. Any ship can warp to BM's or at range. Kinda sick of seeing ppl complaining about falcons while ALWAYS placing them at long or extreme ranges from the gang. The falcon is a dead duck when used at closer than snipe ranges and that fact alone gives any gang with half a brain a very real and valid tactic against them.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.26 15:04:00 - [2] Edited by: lecrotta on 26/01/2009 15:05:45 Originally by: Cambarus My god you're right! Why doesn't everyone just land on top of them? It's not like they're 200km away, turn like a cruiser, can warp cloaked, and can jam any ceptor that shows up long enough to get away or anything So you always fight in places that the enemy has long range BM's around?. Your unimaginative and static ideas on pvp are the problem not falcons or ecm, i suggest you try being a little more mobile in your tactics and even fighting in other places than directly on top of stations or gates. Oh and a dictor or hictor warping to a spot near the falcon would cause it major problems noob.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.26 15:18:00 - [3] Originally by: Cambarus Best case scenario the falcon is at 100km. Anything less and the falcon pilot screwed up and pilot error should never be a consideration in debating ship balance. So your saying falcons in a roaming gang jumping inrto fights screws up?, cos they either die or need to warp/cloak and reposition, not only that but if theirs a bubble up any warpin at 100km will get them sucked in. Originally by: Cambarus But as it stands the ship can operate at ranges that make it invulnerable to any other type of ewar, That is cos its chance based at all ranges not 100% guaranteed like the others are at close range Originally by: Cambarus it can warp cloaked and turn on a dime, All recons of that type can warp cloaked, and the falcon is not that manouverable and certainly not more than the others. Originally by: Cambarus and it can break the lock of any ceptor lucky enough to get close long enough to book it. Going after a falcon in a ceptor is only of any use to get a warpin for other ships and even then its not really worth it, the fact that you would mention ceptors as tacklers for falcons shows how limited your experience is.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:17:00 - [4] Originally by: Ione Hunt The Falcon's range is imbalanced compared to other recons, full stop. All other systems effects work 100% guaranteed at close range so does this mean that ECM is imbalanced as it does not?.... You cannot compare 2 different systems all with different calculations on how they work at those ranges and say one is broken cos it has longer range. Originally by: Ione Hunt All those people saying "no, falcon is fine" remind me of the people who said nano-BS going 9km/s are fine...and look what happened to them Stupid comparison as NANO was a type of fit and ECM if fitted on other non-bonused ships sucks worse than any other ewar system. While the other systems are very effective on non-bonused ships.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:50:00 - [5] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 11:56:58 Originally by: Ione Hunt A webber isn't useful against any enemy It works on everything a ecm unit does and ecm is not that useful against a drone ship. Originally by: Ione Hunt and neither are neuts, or tracking disruptors. Nuets are THE most commonly used type of ewar in the game and TD's work great when used correctly when fitted on bonused and non bonused ships. Originally by: Ione Hunt Also, a sensor booster totally makes up for being dampened. Look who has the weak argument now, ppl do not fit SB to negate the fact they may get damped they fit sensor boosters cos they need the benefit either for lock speed in a fast tackler or lock range in a sniper, and damps remove those benefits very effectively even when fitted on non-bonused ships. Originally by: Ione Hunt If I fit an ECCM on my Sleip, I up the sensor strength to 24, which is still too low to really protect me against ECM effectively. So your favorite ship is not great against a pure ecm boat, pick another ship or get a buddy or two to join you in ships that has good sig str and range so you can deal with falcons, after all a solo falcon is useless as it cannot tackle or do dmg so it always is part of a team,.....why should you be able to beat a team with a falcon in it on your own...now that would be broken.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:52:00 - [6] Originally by: Ione Hunt Also, a well skilled Falcon pilot has a chance higher than 50% of jamming it's target, most often a lot higher. Yet the range difference compared to other recons is far above 50%...sound fair to you? A totally unskilled level 1 noob damp pilot has 100% chance of damping a ship......
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 12:01:00 - [7] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 12:04:41 Originally by: ry ry Originally by: lecrotta A totally unskilled level 1 noob damp pilot has 100% chance of damping a ship...... at about three times the activation cost of an ECM module. you can take any random attribute in isolation and say 'yeah, that means X' but that means very little. Like chance based effect + long range vs 100% effect + med range?. PS: I have no problem with buffing ECCM modules a bit or giving ECCM a added effect, but the truth is will ppl fit them cos i doubt it as most of them prefer eve to be a close range gank/tank game and will keep nerfing anything that does not sit in range and slug it out with them.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 12:08:00 - [8] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 12:08:42 Originally by: ry ry Originally by: lecrotta Like chance based effect + long range vs 100% effect + med range?. yes. because a 30% reduction in my targeting range is not the same a being unable to target anything. It is if the pilot is not a total fool as any damp pilot with half a brain would be fitted to be able to do dmg outside your dampened down range and chew you up, while you would be helpless and unable to lock him. And he can do that solo btw, the falcon cannot, and if the minimum of 2 man team with the falcon misses a jam you have a good chance of melting his buddy.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 12:17:00 - [9] Originally by: Ione Hunt EVE is a risk vs reward game. So nerf all sniper fits?. Sorry pal but long range fits will always be more survivable than short range. Originally by: Ione Hunt And people will fit ECCM if the added bonus is really useful. Sensor boosters have great boni apart from being helpful against damps, tracking enhancers improve damage output which rocks, cap boosters help negate the effect of neuts and improve active tanks at the same time, yet ECCM does absolutely nothing apart from giving you a minimal increase in sensor strength. I know what those systems do i do not need to be told, but the fact is that unless eccm's new bonus has a real and top notch extra effect then nobody will fit it any more than they do now. Ppl only fit injectors not if they are running RR gangs or active tanks, and nobody fits tracking comps to improve dmg or negate TD's they do it if they need to and the same applies to SB. It is much easier for ppl to keep their favorite close range gank/tank fit and spend 1-2 years spamming threads on the forum until another effective system is reduced to uselessnss and gank/tank fits get another sideways buff.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 12:19:00 - [10] Originally by: Neena Valdi Originally by: ry ry Edited by: ry ry on 27/01/2009 12:04:52 Originally by: lecrotta Like chance based effect + long range vs 100% effect + med range?. yes. because a 60% reduction in targeting range or scan res isn't the same a being unable to target anything. And because Falcon can jam few ships at once easily while Arazu can only be effective against 1 ship at most. It can be effective against a few ships depending on type and what buddies the arazu has. And that applies to the falcon as well cos of sig str and what racials he has as the arazus damps are fully effective on all races.

lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 12:27:00 - [11] Originally by: Ione Hunt Yes, nerf all sniper fits, because clearly they can go after more than one target at once like the Falcon can 7 guns on my mega... Originally by: Ione Hunt Quite a few turret ships use tracking enhancers to increase damage output, especially now that fitting a speed mod isn't as useful any longer. I have never seen any. Originally by: Ione Hunt But I'm happy we agree ECCM should get a strong, really effective second bonus I am rarely against a reasonable buff especially considering the other systems (SB, tracking comps, ect) have a effect that is not just a counter to their opposing ewar system.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 12:37:00 - [12] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 12:38:24 Originally by: Vrikshaka Ouch. That argument hurts my soul. For this to be correct, the damage of a sniper fit BS would need to = the damage of a close range one. Which it simply isn't. Why should it a sniper fit sacrifices either active or passive tank to hit that far out, the close range BS does not. Originally by: Vrikshaka A sniper fit BS is safer, yes. But at the price of dealing a lot less damage. And having a lot less tank. Originally by: Vrikshaka The Falcon however, when operating at sniper range, does so with no penalty whatsoever to the strength of it's main weapon. A falcon can miss a jam at long or short range and as such is not fully predictable like a damp/TD ship, that is why it has range instead of a guaranteed effect. Also falcons are not born at 200km away from everything as the pilots need to make bookmarks and anybody can do that, as well as the fact that in a roaming gang they need to jump into camps and either cloak warp and hope no bubble is up for the return trip, or get melted as soon as they engage at close range. Just cos a falcon has the ability to jam at range does not mean that it can get to that range in time to be of any use in the fight.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 13:04:00 - [13] Originally by: ry ry there is a weird correlation between people saying the falcon is fine and caldari characters. crazy. I thought ppl only flew falcons on alts?.....they must be posting with them i suppose......
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 13:33:00 - [14] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 13:36:30 Originally by: Ione Hunt It's also the reason why you get stupid arguments like "a sniper BS can target more than 1 ship too", when in reality using only 2 guns per target (which you have to do if you want to target the same amount of people a Falcon can) is next to useless. It is not useless its a perfectly valid and highly effective tactic against RR gangs to confuse the calling as they do not know who to rep, just cos your tactical knowledge is sorely lacking is no excuse for a nerf. Originally by: Ione Hunt If I ask one of our FCs whether I should bring a Falcon or one of the other recons, and they'll send me mining Veld in empire for asking stupid questions. Tell ppl your going solo roaming in a falcon and you will get the same lulz, falcons are gang ships plain and simple. Originally by: Ione Hunt Can a Curse/Pilgrim affect the same amount of targets as effectively as the Falcon? No. Can an Arazu/Lachesis do it? No. Can a Rapier/Huginn do it? No. Nice list bud, if i was comparing recons for solo work i would include all of those apart from the falcon, maybe it needs a boost as it must suck in blinkered world..... Originally by: Ione Hunt The "chance based" argument is weak because the current counter against jamming are ineffective, therefor increasing jam chances to a level that just isn't in line with other forms of EW. It is a perfectly valid argument the problem is that nobody comes screaming onto the forums full of emo raging about how a falcon missed a jam on them and they popped his buddy. Originally by: Ione Hunt Yes you can't really solo with the Falcon, but that's a Caldari trade-off because of their tanking. So jammers are low or high slot modules now?..cos last i looked they took up the same slots as caldari tank does and also the lows on a falcon are needed to boost jammers to the point they become ok as far as effect is concerned.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 13:35:00 - [15] Originally by: Ione Hunt Tracking disruptors are useless against missile boats, ECM isn't. Then do not fight missile ships in a recon fitted to fight gunnery ships ffs.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 13:41:00 - [16] Originally by: Ione Hunt Originally by: lecrotta Originally by: Ione Hunt Tracking disruptors are useless against missile boats, ECM isn't. Then do not fight missile ships in a recon fitted to fight gunnery ships ffs. I wouldn't...but that doesn't change the fact that one form of ECM works against all ships. So do damps, and trying to justify a nerf by pointing out what other systems cannot do is stupid.......falcons cannot solo they need a buff..see what i did there?.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 13:44:00 - [17] Originally by: Neena Valdi As tackler - perhaps. As ewar - barely enough for 1 non sensor boosted BS. Rubbish, it can damp at least 2 non SB BS to a point they cannot hit it if the pilot knows what he is doing. Originally by: Neena Valdi Proper falcon has racial jammers for all races and 1-2 multispectral. Every damp you fit on a arazu is a fully 100% effective non chance based multispec.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 13:49:00 - [18] Originally by: Neena Valdi Originally by: lecrotta So do damps, and trying to justify a nerf by pointing out what other systems cannot do is stupid.......falcons cannot solo they need a buff..see what i did there?. So give them the buff to solo and adjust their ability to take out of the game 4-5 ships at once. The ability to do that is sheer blind luck from a ship dedicated to jamming and being setup with 6 mids all to do exactly that. And it can only do it effectively if it is at long range and the gang it is facing has no long range ships or eccm fitted. That is not OP that is what happens if you go jumping into a camp with a crappy setup gang.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 13:56:00 - [19] The biggest joke is the fact that some gangs are willing to bring a entire ship/player/account with them to make them more effective as a unit in pvp. But others who wanna fly their uber tank/gank setups are unwilling to adjust their fit slightly to combat it and instead cry for a nerf expecting ccp to bring these ships into range of their fits/guns instead.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 14:01:00 - [20] Originally by: ry ry Originally by: lecrotta Every damp you fit on a arazu is a fully 100% effective non chance based multispec. you keep mentioning that it's chance based, do you have the formula for calculating chance of jamming to hand? i was under the impression that chance%=(ecm strength/sensor strength)*100 which would mean that, for example, jamming a minmatar interceptor with a racial wasn't chance based at all? A maxed falcon pilot gets around 14-15 str max on racials, around 9-10 with multispecs, so any ship with less sig str than than can be perma jammed. And very few ships do, even a crappy t1 cruiser with a single eccm reduces the chance of getting jammed by a maxed out falcon fitted with a racial racial by 50%.....

lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 14:03:00 - [21] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 14:06:26 Originally by: ry ry so basically everybody should have a falcon with them at all times, otherwise they're not doing it right? If you limit your gang in any way including range, ewar, logistics, ect ect complaining to ccp that a gang was fitted to attack that hole in your abilities kicked your butt is just gonna get you laughed at.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 14:10:00 - [22] Originally by: ry ry Originally by: Colonel Xaven Wrong. Every gang should keep the possibility of ewar in mind and set up accordingly! by bringing falcons. Falcons are a handy ship in gang combat but they are not very effective against each other as they have a naturally high sig str, and as such your jammers are proly better off being put on other targets. You really should know these things already if your gonna cry about nerfs tbh.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 14:13:00 - [23] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 14:16:08 Originally by: ry ry Originally by: ry ry so basically everybody should have a falcon with them at all times, otherwise they're not doing it right? If you limit your gang in any way including range, ewar, logistics, ect ect complaining to ccp that a gang was fitted to attack that hole in your abilities kicked your butt is just gonna get you laughed at. suggesting falcons are overpowered means i'm **** at pvp too? awesome :D You said it pal, although your the one interpreting what i said to mean that, and it is a sign your running out of rant and resorting to a form of self effacement.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 14:42:00 - [24] Originally by: Neena Valdi Originally by: lecrotta The ability to do that is sheer blind luck from a ship dedicated to jamming and being setup with 6 Over 50% chance to jam battleship with racial jammers. Blind luck, yeh. Please do not misquote ppl as it makes you look more stupid than them. I was replying to this:- Quote: their ability to take out of the game 4-5 ships at once. Perma-amming 4-5 BS all at the same time would be a stroke of luck are you saying other wise or just snipping out things you think make good troll posts?.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 14:47:00 - [25] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 14:48:41 Originally by: Neena Valdi I can only suggest you to get some clue before you post next time. I suggest you learn how to fly your ships instead of just relying on eft pal. Originally by: Neena Valdi 1) damps are not effective once target is close enough That is why you keep range its called piloting bud, and a missed jam at close range = dead falcon. Originally by: Neena Valdi 2) damps are not effective against ships with sensor boosters That is a two edged sword as a ship loses the benifit given by SB if the ship gets damped Originally by: Neena Valdi 3) damps do not work on 150+ kms like racial jammers Jammers do not have a gaurenteed effect within their optimal ranges like damps.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 15:45:00 - [26] Originally by: ry ry you can't burn out to range and tackle with an interceptor because they're so easily jammed... True but then ceptors make good warp to ships even when jammed. Originally by: ry ry you can't burn out with anything else because even if it doesn't jam you the falcon will just warp off to another spot around the gate at it's leisure... You can warp out to it "at your leisure" cos if it can have BM's to warp to i do not see why you cannot. Originally by: ry ry fitting ECCM will mean most of your gang cannot target/hit a falcon at range in the first place . All of your gang does not need to hit it only a few do. Why in all your scenarios are the falcon pilots always at range with multiple BM's and the gang fighting them always seem to feel they must stay in that position?....kinda stupid if you ask me tbh....
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 15:50:00 - [27] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 15:52:40 Originally by: ry ry Originally by: lecrotta You said it pal, although your the one interpreting what i said to mean that, and it is a sign your running out of rant and resorting to fake self effacement. wait.. what rant? don't be so touchy about anybody suggesting they're anything but perfectly balanced. This rather silly emo rant:- Originally by: ry ry suggesting falcons are overpowered means i'm **** at pvp too? awesome :D Do try to keep the language and the exhageration down bud.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 15:55:00 - [28] Originally by: Linnth - 10 man Falcon gang. vs - 20 man non-Falcon gang. Result: 20 man non falcon gang wins unless they totally suck.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 16:04:00 - [29] Originally by: Linnth Originally by: lecrotta Originally by: Linnth - 10 man Falcon gang. vs - 20 man non-Falcon gang. Result: 20 man non falcon gang wins unless they totally suck. Do you even fly Falcons? One Falcon can easily perma-jam 2 targets. Because all 20 ships in your delusions sit still and do not warp to BM's...and do not shoot back either as the falcon team all lock the correct ships with no overlap and just happen to perfectly divide up the exactly correct jammers per ship per falcon instantly....... Oh look you also forgot to bring tacklers and dmg dealers..... EFT and basic math is not pvp and is no substitute for in game experience, i suggest you gain a little before you post again.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 16:07:00 - [30] Originally by: Neena Valdi Originally by: lecrotta Oh and they do not take them out of the game they just jam them, drones, ecm burst, smart bombs, tank and fof still work. Oh yeah they work. On 150+ kms. Really they soooo do. They do not need to work at 150+ km muppet, they only need work at the ranges the tacklers and other ships in the falcon gang are at. You really are rather clueless aint ya?....no xp just eft and emo fueled posting...

lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 16:09:00 - [31] Originally by: Neena Valdi In fact falcons do jam eccm boosted carriers without that much of problem even though their sensor strength is much higher than of BS... Keep dreaming pal, a carrier without eccm is a pain to jam let alone with its sig boosted.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 16:21:00 - [32] Originally by: Neena Valdi Originally by: lecrotta Originally by: Neena Valdi In fact falcons do jam eccm boosted carriers without that much of problem even though their sensor strength is much higher than of BS... Keep dreaming pal, a carrier without eccm is a pain to jam let alone with its sig boosted. You might want to try it yourself before you post next time. Did it, done it and jamming a carrier with a multi spec and two racials (best case scenario for a combat fitted falcon) jamming a non-boosted carrier is not easy let alone one with eccm fitted. Go back to pvp school jr.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 16:56:00 - [33] Originally by: Neena Valdi I suggest everyone to stop feeding this troll. He has no clue apparently. Im on sissi now pal with 3 racials + 1 multi spec on a falcon vs a thanny with no eccm fitted. So before you start telling me how easy it is to jam a carrier again i suggest you get a clue, cos the falcon is jamming maybe 10% of the time. 4 racial + 1 multi spec vs unboosted thanny = around 70%.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 17:14:00 - [34] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 17:16:31 Originally by: Steel Tigeress Originally by: lecrotta Im on sissi now pal with 3 racials + 1 multi spec on a falcon vs a thanny with no eccm fitted. So before you start telling me how easy it is to jam a carrier again i suggest you get a clue, cos the falcon is jamming maybe 10% of the time. 4 racial + 1 multi spec vs unboosted thanny = around 60-70% jam. So in other words, when you were talking befor...you were just talking out of your seat warmer and had no idea what your were talking about. You may have proved yourself right in this case. I did not need to test it to check, i was actually trying to figure out how to make fraps and that was as good a subject to do it with as any. It was the other clown who made claims that were not true without any clue wtf he was talking about, and you trying to make me look dishonest instead of just admitting the total fail and lack of actual knowledge or argument you and he has is rather pathetic tbh.. PS: i suck at fraps does anybody have a link to a place that tells how to do it.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 17:22:00 - [35] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 17:23:59 Originally by: daisy dook Is that a) four of the correct racial plus one multi or b) one correct racial, three incorrect racial and a multi? Lets be realistic if the answer is A then its meaningless outside the very specialised instance where you know what race you are jamming (and in that case why not have 5 of the correct racial?). 4 correct racials + 1 multi, and your right it is rather unrealistically in favor of the falcon but then i was trying to make fraps more than run a test and just threw on what jammers of that particular race i had in my hangar tbh.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 17:32:00 - [36] Originally by: Ptolomey Incognito That is the issue with ECM, It takes you completely out of the fight, when it works. Wrong you are still in the game and have drones, smart bombs, ecm bursts and fof that can effect local/close range targets, as well as the fact that you can be remote repped and rep your self if you have a local rep fitted. Originally by: Ptolomey Incognito What other module or E-war can take you out of the fight completely? None. Damps can break a lock and keep it broken if used correctly. Originally by: Ptolomey Incognito The range should be brought in line with Neuts/webs/disruptor bonuses the other recons get. This would only be acceptable if the ECM modules as a whole had their range greatly reduced. Reduce the range of ecm to the same as damps ect ect, and you will need to give them the same guaranteed effect as the systems you are "balancing" them with. As well as a secondary ewar system ALL the other recons get.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 17:39:00 - [37] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 17:43:31 Originally by: Tau Dades Other than a battleship, 150-180km will be near the edge of your targetting range/missile range while still having decent sensor strength The eagle, vulture and ferox amoung others have a good base sig str and can hit at range for instant although rather low dmg. Although why a gang of hac and small ships would decide to sit in a position that a falcon has a 200km BM is beyond me tbh, try warping to a off gate/station ect position dudes, you will be surprised at the results.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 17:58:00 - [38] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 18:05:06 Originally by: Ptolomey Incognito Remote rep? yea, if you're logistics pilot hasn't also been jammed.... Remote rep is not just limited to logistic ships, in a rr bs gang having a sniper or two fitted with eccm (or even getting remote eccm'd by ships with a spare slot) and setup to kill/force off falcons while getting RR'd by the rest of the gang works great. Originally by: Ptolomey Incognito RSD's Did you notice? they got nerfed. Yup but they still work great when used correctly even on non-bonused ships. Originally by: Ptolomey Incognito Because unlike the other recons, your E-war, even in close, is more effective. Wrong its only more effective when it actually works, and that is rare when ppl are buffed against it with eccm or happen to be flying a ship with a sig str over 14ish and get the roll of the dice. I do support a buff to eccm str and to it having a secondary/beneficial effect like tracking comps and sensor boosters do other than just defending against ecm ect...
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:12:00 - [39] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 18:14:23 Originally by: lecrotta Damps can break a lock and keep it broken if used correctly. Originally by: Neena Valdi I repeat: get some clue before making statements like this. Perfectly true statement considering the context of the discussion (ie: the target locking the damping ship not the buddies he has sitting on his lap). Originally by: Neena Valdi Good luck breaking carrier/RR BS spider tank using damps. Totally off topic from what we were discussing but your right a setup RR spider tank cannot be broken by damps although the damped ships can only rep as they will be rather limited in locking anything but their buddies, ecm can break the RR tank though....so can nuets wanna nerf em as well?...... Actually i bet i can keep a non boosted carrier from locking me longer with damps than you can keep it jammed....... PS: Why do you keep taking a discussion away or of the situation it is in regard to and then act like i missed your rather obvious and stupid points?...do you have no real content to add at all?.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:23:00 - [40] Originally by: Visceroth ]I don't like this "when it actually works" non-sense that people are using for a defense. Obviously it works more often than not or else people wouldn't be using them or training alts to use them. It only works "more often than not" when the target ship has less than 28 sig str (vs a perfectly skilled falcon pilot), and a t1 cruiser with a eccm has more than that. A BS with just 1 eccm has between 34 and 46 sig str depending on race/type. The falcon is very effective against gangs that are neither prepared or able to deal with them but that applies to a lot of things.

lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:30:00 - [41] Originally by: Neena Valdi Proper fitted RR BS's will have at least 1 sensor booster. Stop posting this nonsense. LOL i have flown in a lot of RR gangs and a SB was never standard fit. Go play wow nub. Originally by: Neena Valdi Neutralizers doesn't work on 150+ kms and they by far not as effective as ECM. Nuets effect is 100% guaranteed when in range the ecm effect is not, Nuets are also THE most used form of ewar in the game.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:41:00 - [42] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 18:41:34 Originally by: Rordan D'Kherr Originally by: Enden Assulu I don't understand why people don't counter the falcon It's because they do not know how. And they don't wanna read about it. It's a 3rd thing next to tank and gank and they are only able to count to 2. Yup do the math. 1 entire account using ship (a falcon), 6 mids fitted with a mix of jammers, 3 lows fitted with str boosters and rigs for range. VS 1 eccm module each on 2 BS that reduces the falcons chances of jamming for just 2 cycles down to around 25%... And what do the whiners do?....waaa dont wanna use a slot ccp nerf nerf...waaa.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:48:00 - [43] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 18:50:35 Originally by: Visceroth Originally by: lecrotta Originally by: Visceroth ]I don't like this "when it actually works" non-sense that people are using for a defense. Obviously it works more often than not or else people wouldn't be using them or training alts to use them. It only works "more often than not" when the target ship has less than 28 sig str (vs a perfectly skilled falcon pilot), and a t1 cruiser with a eccm has more than that. A BS with just 1 eccm has between 34 and 46 sig str depending on race/type. The falcon is very effective against gangs that are neither prepared or able to deal with them but that applies to a lot of things. I simply state that a Falcon is more effective than you are trying to lead on. If they weren't, everyone wouldn't be training to fly one. I doubt everybody is, although i will say that those of us with carriers and cyno alts/accounts do train useful support ships, i know my cyno alt account has a CS, logistic, recon(inc falcon) trained person on it. Just because its worth training on a alt account ppl already have does not mean its OP dude (or ppl would train them on mains not alts), just that its a good support skill like the others ppl train on second accounts.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 19:04:00 - [44] Originally by: Yoko Lee Veto for example, they use 3x falcon+ 6 bs + 2 hic + x ship to kill a indus, pvp suck so much with them they kill, for me, pvp. just watch veto kb...o/ So 12 or so ships with.. 25% ewar 50% dps 15-20% tackle 5-10% X..whatever that is... Sounds like a well balanced gang, and nobody passes up a kill just cos its a single ship alone, they did not NEED that many they just HAD that many. Stop complaining that ppl fly in effective gangs.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 19:05:00 - [45] Originally by: Butzewutze The falcon is underpowered if you compare it to the other recons in solo pvp...boost it!!
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 19:08:00 - [46] Originally by: Yoko Lee Originally by: Major Celine Originally by: Butzewutze The falcon is overpowered if you compare it to the other recons. Nuff said. Nerf it! Oh well, that is a true killer argument. Comparing races. Arazu kill the game, just that, cause you cant do nothing with it, if you are damped you can only approach and if it is faster, you can do nothing...ect ect
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 19:13:00 - [47] Originally by: Ptolomey Incognito Seriously... RSDs? Are you kidding, you have to be kidding, Take for example a Vagabond, non bonused ships can damp me down to 23km with two of them.. that's pretty lol. Would that be the 23 lol km that is within nuet range?...... Originally by: Ptolomey Incognito Go through the killboards and tell me that many ships are fit with ECCM's. Not many, and those that did and died may not have been jammed and just died anyway, as i doubt the emo raged nerf hounds would be totally honest about it.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 19:20:00 - [48] Originally by: Butzewutze In some months we will see more and more falcons and the solution will be "bring more falcons". Do i have to say more? You dont need to be a rocket scientist to see the problem here. It will be nerfed, be sure. The solution to any pvp issue in eve can be boiled down to "bring more and you will win", if you start removing and nerfing systems by that silly measure the game will end. It is imposable for falcons to be effective over a certain number due to overlapping and the inability to designate targets, even if you fit racial pure single ships and use designated overview targeting, over a certain number becomes pointless and a waste of manpower.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 19:31:00 - [49] Originally by: Ptolomey Incognito You're point? Seriously... Also, Now you're using speculative logic about ECCM's? Actually if you read i am refusing to speculate as the honesty of the pilots cannot be guaranteed. Originally by: Ptolomey Incognito But lets take an example from the thread, about two battleships vs a battleship and a falcon, they claimed that it gives the falcon/BS an advantage, but not a high one. Correct, and that is as it should be unless you want gank/tank to be all that eve is about. Originally by: Ptolomey Incognito Two Gank/Tank cruisers vs a Gank/Tank cruiser and a falcon. Depends on the cruisers tbh, if t1 cruisers without eccm then yup, with eccm not a massive advantage but quite large, if t2 cruisers then it gets a lot closer as hacs have almost the same base sig str as some BS. Although it should be noted that cruisers and small ships are more mobile than static BS and can rely on warping to BM's and general mobility to either deal with or avoid the mixed/versatile gangs ewar advantage.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 19:40:00 - [50] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 19:40:54 Originally by: devilator So not only one but now there are two ships who either gimped there tank or there tackling ability all for what ONE FREAKIN SHIP..why else would u equip an eccm mod. Yea 2 slots divided between 2 ships = (1 slot each) compared to AN ENTIRE DEDICATED SHIP FITTED WITH 6 MIDS AND 3 LOWS.........god forbid you have a insignificantly less tank and use 2 slots between 2 ships....... Easier to cry to ccp for a year or two that use a slot off you gank/tank fit hey pal.......

lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 19:46:00 - [51] Originally by: Ptolomey Incognito In the situation of Two cruisers vs 1 cruiser 1 force recon. Every other recon is helping LESS than the falcon. The Pilgrim Comes close, the Rapier does well too, but they have to put themselves in a vulnerable position. The falcon does not. Maybe but if the falcon misses its jam (and they do as they are inherently unpredictable) his buddy gets melted by the two cruisers while another recons effect cannot fail at its preferred range. A reasonably skilled 2 man cruiser class gang would need to pick its target carefully and tbh i would prefer some of the other recons as a partner as their effects are fully predictable and can be fully planned for while the falcons effect could fail at any moment and leave me right in the crap.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 19:54:00 - [52] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 19:55:28 Originally by: Ptolomey Incognito Originally by: lecrotta Originally by: Ptolomey Incognito In the situation of Two cruisers vs 1 cruiser 1 force recon. Every other recon is helping LESS than the falcon. The Pilgrim Comes close, the Rapier does well too, but they have to put themselves in a vulnerable position. The falcon does not. Maybe but if the falcon misses its jam (and they do as they are inherently unpredictable) his buddy gets melted by the two cruisers while another recons effect cannot fail at its preferred range. A reasonably skilled 2 man cruiser class gang would need to pick its target carefully and tbh i would prefer some of the other recons as a partner as their effects are fully predictable and can be fully planned for while the falcons effect could fail at any moment and leave me right in the crap. If you're worried about a Falcon not being able to permajam two cruisers than you need to get over PvP paranoia. Hope for the best plan for the worst, in a 2 man roam the other recons are prefered as their effects can be predicted and your tactics known for each class/type of target. A lot of cruiser class ships have very high sig str for their size and a jam can easily fail. Not only that but a falcon and as you say they do not work so well against larger ships, and so you are limiting your target availability against BS and ships with high sig str while with the other recons you can be effective against virtually all sizes as long as your a competant pilot and know how to use your ships ewar effects properly.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 20:06:00 - [53] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 20:07:19 Originally by: Yoko Lee ecm block you, damp no Yes if you are smart enough to be at range. Originally by: Yoko Lee ecm block you, td no Yes if you are smart enough to be at range or have high enough transversal. Originally by: Yoko Lee ecm block you, neutra no Nuet stop u from repping yourself + active tanking, ecm no
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 20:33:00 - [54] Originally by: Yoko Lee ecm block, ecm must change, and i hate falcon alt...not you? ECM can fail and not block, all others effects work 100% as intended in their ranges. For 2 man roaming gang other recons are much better.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 21:08:00 - [55] Originally by: Visceroth You were doing very well at the arguments because no one has yet to answer very well...until this point. You are completely daft if you think you are going to take a rapier, arazu, or pilgrim/curse in a 2 man gang. There is no way I would choose any of those over a Falcon and if you say you would than you lose ALL credibility. Your wrong i am right, a falcon is not as good at roaming solo or in a 2 man cruiser class gang as some of the other recons, if you cannot see why that is not my problem. Originally by: Visceroth To those who say that ECCM works better on smaller ships... You will have to show me who made that claim tbh cos i have never seen anybody make it ever. Unless you count recons as small ship as they have higher sig str than BS....but i consider them a niche tbh. Originally by: Visceroth The masses cry for it and it shall be done. Minority spamming pointless threads is not masses bud not by a long chalk. Originally by: Visceroth also wanted to note that with a 2 man gang you will be engaging 2 maybe 3 people gangs, that means that each ship in the opposing gang gets 2 ECM's. Crap. A two man cruiser hull gang will be looking to gank solo ships, and as such a falcon +1 gang going after a BS or good dmg deaer BC/CS will lose its +1 as soon as a jam is missed, when a arazu or the like will keep the BS damped/disrupted to uselessness for the duration without the chance for a failed cycle.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 21:10:00 - [56] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 21:12:23 Originally by: Roger Arko Originally by: lecrotta For 2 man roaming gang other recons are much better than a falcon. So why are you spending so much time in this thread defending falcons? ;) Well if they were better i could not defend them now could i.....
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 21:12:00 - [57] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 21:15:36 Originally by: Roger Arko Originally by: lecrotta Go play wow nub. So now we know where did you come from. Gosh you trolled the entire thread for summat you could use to try and dismiss me cos you cannot dismiss my arguments?...and that is the best you can do?... Originally by: Roger Arko /ignore YAY.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 21:34:00 - [58] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 21:35:30 Originally by: chrisss0r Originally by: Roger Arko Smaller ship - lower base strength. Lower base strength - less effective ECCM (I hope you aware ECCM adds percentage, not the fixed value?). LOL, you must be some kind of ****. Eccm halves the chance of being jammed no matter how big the sensor strenght is. (unless it's below 14.2, the the impact eccm has is even infinit, from beeing permajammed forever to not beeing permajammed.) He is looking at it from the wrong angle bud. A cruiser with say 13 str can be fully and constantly jammed by a falcon with 14 str with no chance to break the cycle ever, but if the cruiser fits a single eccm its sig str goes up to 26 giving it a almost 50% chance to break the jam. This math applies to ships with sig str all the way down to around 8 str as with a single eccm they go from having no chance ever** to break the jam of a falcon to having a slim to very good chance depending on their base sig str. NOW if a ship with 15 sig str vs the 14 str of the jammer fits a eccm he goes from having a slim chance to having a better chance to break the jam than to get jammed. I know what you mean and understand but your math and explanation kinda confused him i think.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 21:45:00 - [59] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 21:46:46 Originally by: Roger Arko Originally by: chrisss0r And no my numbers are not wrong. goddamn shut the hell up if you don't even understand what i did. The model works accurat. Goddamnit idiot Your model is wrong because it doesn't take into account proper usage of ECM modules which was already explained somewhere in this thread. Actually it was this fella who started the thread about the proper use of staggered ecm use along with a "biasien?" (did i get that right chrisss0r) calculus to show the effectiveness of jammers using the staggered jam cycle over time. At lest check the math and facts before you try to troll dude. here is the Thread nub cakes
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 21:53:00 - [60] Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 21:55:06 Originally by: chrisss0r Yes, thx And while i was absolutely right about a falcon having a devastating effect if the targets are few my model quite unintended also proved the effectiveness of ECCM. This also brought up the most logical and fairest solution: To remove off-race jamchance on racial jammers and for fairness reasons break ecm-cycle when falcon is cloaking. I preferred the slight boost to eccm str and the additional and useful effect added to it, after all SB's and TC's get one. Originally by: chrisss0r It's quite ironic how people tell me my calcs are wrong because i did not use the method i myself brought up for the calculation of real jamming chances on few targets with more jammers than targets :) Most proly got jumped by a gang of 20 ships and hit red line on emo cos a falcon jammed them and since have had a irrational hatred of ecm so do not bother to check facts before they post.

lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 21:59:00 - [61] Originally by: Roger Arko I find it amusing how you replying to your own alt (chrisss0r). Keep it up. Its entertaining... The paranoia is strong in this one.....
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 22:05:00 - [62] Originally by: chrisss0r Edited by: chrisss0r on 27/01/2009 22:00:52 Originally by: lecrotta Edited by: lecrotta on 27/01/2009 21:55:06 Originally by: chrisss0r Yes, thx And while i was absolutely right about a falcon having a devastating effect if the targets are few my model quite unintended also proved the effectiveness of ECCM. This also brought up the most logical and fairest solution: To remove off-race jamchance on racial jammers and for fairness reasons break ecm-cycle when falcon is cloaking. I preferred the slight boost to eccm str and the additional and useful effect added to it, after all SB's and TC's get one. Yeah having a usefull effect besides fending off ecm would also raise the likelyhood of gangmates having fit eccm aswell what decreases your chance of beeing jammed aswell. The main problem is that every other thing that can be buffed already has a module that buffs it....
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 22:48:00 - [63] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Adding a second bonus to ECCM is not a bad idea, though, maybe reducing signature radius (just a bit though). There is no module for this. Not a bad idea considering eccm is supposed to be a counter to caldari ewar and their weapons are also signature sensitive. Kinda fits in the story line if ya get the idea.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 23:57:00 - [64] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 00:04:14 Originally by: Yoko Lee example : alone with a harbi vs 1 harbi drake, myrmidon = my falcon perma jam them and 2 die, ahah so stronger i'm? no No just lucky. The drones from those ships could cause you a lot of grief in your harbi let alone if the drake had fof in its cargo. Plus they all have ok tanks as well as good sig str so "perma" jamming them all and them not deploying drones ect ect (if it really happened) was sheer blind luck.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 09:29:00 - [65] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 09:30:52 Originally by: Relleh i see a common theme from the defenders of the overpowered falcon... common theme is that it is so fragile, IT HAS TO FIGHT AT EXTREME RANGE. Got news, My bloody arazu is just as squishy as that falcon, It is not that its fragile although having to use its mids for jammers and its lows for amps to make the jammers effective is relavant. It is that unlike your arazu jammers are not guaranteed to jam at their optimal ranges, so while you can fit speed mods on a arazu and damp a ship while keeping it at a constant range that it cannot lock you, falcons jamming at closer ranges could easily miss a jam cycle and get insta melted. Originally by: Relleh So by your logic, i should be able to cloak warp, fight at ranges that are pretty near impossible without an extreme inty (i mean who really rolls in a sniper fit BS) to catch you at. 1. Just because you wanna go for pure close range gank/tank in your gang fits and refuse to fit a few ships to hit at range is not the falcons, ccps or anybody's fault but yours. And if this lack of versatility leaves a hole in your defenses that ppl can use to kill or beat you i suggest you use more versatile gang styles instead of crying to ccp to bring everything into your preferred and limited range. 2. Extreme inties are only good if you wanna make a warpin to a falcon as they are easily jammed, if you wanna catch or reduce the range of a falcon i suggest you fight in places that he either does not have snipe range bookmarks, or you could spend a little time like the falcon pilots do and make a few BM's of your own instead of being lazy and expecting kills to be handed to you on a plate.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 12:13:00 - [66] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 12:14:55 Originally by: ry ry slightly off topic, but at least one SB was pretty much standard fit for every rr BS gang i've flown in - both sniper blobs and roaming gangs Snipers of course use a sensor booster or they would not be able to lock at snipe ranges ffs... Close range fit RR BS gangs do not need a sensor booster, its a waste of a slot. Originally by: ry ry isn't being able to quickly lock the ship needing repairing and get reps on it a good thing too? Not as much as having inexhaustible cap, a BS locking a BS is hardly a long lock time and the small reduction you get from a SB (6ish seconds without a SB vs 4ish seconds with a SB) is not worth losing a slot you could be using for cap or other modules.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 12:24:00 - [67] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 12:24:57 Originally by: ry ry i tend to fly plated-up minmatar battleships. never had much use for cap myself ;) And yet the other 2 gunnery races need it to fire and all 4 races need it to run RR Originally by: ry ry better locktime on smaller targets - a webbed hac going for the gate or something - is a bonus in close range gangs. If your fast locking/dedicated tacklers cannot catch him before he gets back to the gate then a BS with a SB aint gonna catch him bud.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 12:37:00 - [68] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 13:23:36 Originally by: ry ry Originally by: lecrotta If your fast locking/dedicated tacklers cannot catch him then a BS with a SB aint gonna bud. clearly i wasn't talking about your battleships tackling them. but interceptors generally don't do enough damage to kill hacs (webbed or otherwise) before they crawl back to the gate. they can however slow them down enough for a battleship to get a lock and shoot them. Come on you know that he will either be bumped and stopped short or make it back you know it as well as i do, but even then its not worth fitting a SB on a gang of RR BS "just in case" some numpty jumps into your blob/gang in a hac while your sitting on a gate. So yea im sure with a little eve knowledge you can think up a highly rare scenario where a SB on close range RR BS gang MAY be of slight benefit but for general use and for 99% of the time it aint worth it.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 13:37:00 - [69] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 13:54:12 Originally by: ry ry lets not start with the implications of who knows more than whom about eve again, it's on a par with calling people brosef and only marginally better than telling people to go back to WoW obviously you're a falcon/forum alt - i doubt 9 months of Eve in a 1 man corp would be enough to give you the vast wealth of experience you talk about - so who is your main? it'd surely have some bearing on the relevance of your opinions on falcon ECM and fleet battleship fittings. :P 1. I do have a alt (not this dude as you can see on BC) training logistics, CS, recon and other useful support skills on my cyno account, it has not yet finished training the tertiary skills for recons yet as i am focusing on CS/gang skills atm. 2. I do not post with my main for two reasons, the first is that the account its on is in the forum sin bin for a rather extended period. And the second is that if somebody has a point to make it should stand on its merits alone and the fact that the person saying it may have a few thousand kills to their credit in all forms of pvp should not add substance to it. Those that lack the knowledge to understand the points made will never understand with or without knowledge of who a persons main is and how many thousand kills they may have cos it adds nothing to the discussion in question.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 14:37:00 - [70] Originally by: ry ry That'd be all well and good if you were a long-standing member of a spaceholding alliance, of course you'd have flown a lot of fleet BS. It depends on what you consider long standing as i have played eve since mid 2003 and been part of many alliances for a relatively long time depending on how you measure things of course. I have also hopped around from one small high spec pvp corp to another as well, all depending on what type of specialized pvp i wanted to do/focus on for a while. Play eve for long enough and you will lose interest in laggy blob wars and "owning space" and you will focus more on working in various small close knit high skilled and teamwork orientated corps of one sort or another.

lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 14:39:00 - [71] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 14:40:42 Originally by: Embarcadero So much crap and spam posted here it's not even hilarious anymore. While your post is just pact full of pertinent, exciting and insightful details......
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 14:48:00 - [72] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 14:50:51 Originally by: ry ry and what is the most successful technique eve's playerbase has come up with to counter falcons? That depends on who you are talking about. In gangs of small mobile ships like hacs ect, mobility, the willingness to engage in non-standard areas and also having prepared BM's (like ppl always give falcons...) around stations and gates work excellently. In BS gangs having your gang prepared not only for just gank/tank but also having a couple of them eccm buffed and fitted for snipe to deal with falcons at long range. PS: Date Of Birth 2003.07.18 22:19
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 14:54:00 - [73] Originally by: ry ry really? we normally just bring a falcon or two. much more effective. Falcon are very poor at jamming other falcons due to them having one of the highest sig str of any conventional ship, your better off jamming other assets with lower sig str and while they waste jammers on your falcons your BS can easily lock and make them warp or die.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 15:24:00 - [74] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 15:27:57 Originally by: ry ry again, you seem to be coming at this as if i've got a pathological fear of falcons. Actually its a pathological fear of adjusting the fit on a couple of your gangs ships slightly, or at least that is the case for a lot of ppl on this forum who are complaining. Originally by: ry ry they're overpowered and potentially game-breaking in small gang pvp, Small gang pvp relies on one thing to be successful and that is mobility and mobility is one of the falcons worst enemys, you do not even have to change your fits much for it to be available if your flying in small hac gangs ect as they are already very mobile. Originally by: ry ry but setting up a gang to counter one particular ship is negative and ultimately self-defeating. You are missing or avoiding my point, setting up a gang with a obvious hole in its defenses against certain ships and ranges is the foolish and self defeating attitude. And expecting ccp to plug that hole when as pointed out on this very thread 1 slot each on 2 different ships can virtually negate a entire ewar ship that has 6 mids and 3 lows all dedicated to jamming is hardly excessive.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 15:35:00 - [75] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 15:45:42 Originally by: ry ry but why bother 'adapting' and ending up with an inferior gang? If your gang is inferior by using a mid slot each on 2 of your gangs ships to counter falcons, then falcons cannot be a very significant threat. How can a gang that can easily defeat a dreaded "OP".."game breaking"..small gang pvp destroying"... uber falcon gang be inferior to a gang that gets "perma" jammed for hours at a time and dies?... Originally by: ry ry the most effective way to negate the effect a falcon has ona fight is to bring your own. And here is where you fall down because you do not negate the effect of the opposing falcon by bringing one of your own you just bring your own effect. The hostile falcon still has a effect on your poorly setup ships and will continue to do so until you adapt a couple of your gangs ships to counter it.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 15:59:00 - [76] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 16:03:33 Originally by: ry ry what are you talking about? the hostile falcon takes a number of my ships out of the fight, my falcon takes a number of their ships out of the fight. the advantage is negated, see? We were talking about the effect not the advantage, so no the effect was not negated nor was the hostile falcon. As i showed you earlier in a BS gang a couple of them fitted for snipe and buffed with eccm will remove the falcon from the field one way or another. That is negating the effect and the advantage and will win you the fight because of good preparation and planning not luck. Playing the equivalent of falcon snap decides the winner by sheer blind luck as its all about who gets the most jams on the most ships most regularly and that is a total coin toss, but even then the big advantage goes to the gang that had the smarts to fit the ships with the room with a single eccm unit.......
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 16:12:00 - [77] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 16:36:42 Originally by: chrisss0r Remove off-racial jam strength Im not 100% convinced about this but i have no really strong objections, im sure it will please inty pilots no end though. Originally by: chrisss0r Break ecm-lock when falcon cloaks Undecided about this as well tbh, but im gonna do a few tests on sissi before i comment. Although it should be noted that all the other ewar effects including web, TD, damp and point ect ect continue to work after the ship using them has cloaked. Although some only have a 5 second cycle time so meh.... Originally by: chrisss0r Maybe let eccm have a sig radius bonus Love it although i think a few caldari pilots may have summat to say about it...
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 16:43:00 - [78] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 16:44:00 Originally by: Major Celine This thread (and all similar) is an endless story. A epic novel.....WWAAAA and PSHHHH
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 16:55:00 - [79] Originally by: ry ry thats the thing though, isn't it - nobody who contributed more than a sentence to this thread was crying about it. you on the other hand seem to be quite emotional about the whole issue. I suppose sarcasm is a emotion although im surprised you think i am wrong when i add some considering this..... Originally by: ry ry it's okay, he's dropped his webs for eccm. i put on my wizard's robe and hat.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 17:41:00 - [80] Originally by: ry ry You train Lvl. 3 Eroticism. You turn into a real beautiful woman. Nice. Anyway i hope you enjoy owning all the badly setup gangs that you come across with your new ecm resistant fits.

lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 18:51:00 - [81] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 18:52:58 Originally by: Dray Originally by: Visceroth Interesting story. But the point here is the falcons were still getting jams. The question becomes, did you guys have ECCM fitted? Good fight and good victory. Thank you. I'd rather not discuss setups but my point is that the falcon and the blackbird between them, regardless of ECCM if this thread is to be believed, should have effectively ended the fight, but they didn't, also even jammed the Sin drones still do their work plus we knew we'd be jammed but we played the odds, because contrary to popular belief the falcon isn't as good as people like to think. Very nice work. I am not sure what "But the point here is the falcons were still getting jams" means, as the falcon should get a few jams in even if your ships had eccm fitted.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 19:43:00 - [82] Originally by: Neena Valdi Hardeners are reducing dmg taken by fixed % and are effective against all kinds of ships. That is a interesting distinction, although a EM hardener or explosive hardener would do me little good against a blasterthon, i need to fit at least one of each or maybe 3 types and a eanm to be fully covered against all dmg types in eve. A eccm unit covers your ship with a single module vs ecm. Although i will add that i think eccm should have a secondary effect and i LOVED the sig radius reduction idea for this tbh. Originally by: Neena Valdi The real problem about falcons is how they are much much more effective in gangs and fleets than ANY other recon. That is a two edged sword tbh as ANY other recon is much better at solo and 2 ship roaming cruiser hull pvp.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:09:00 - [83] Originally by: Neena Valdi Originally by: TZeer Anyway, the jammer strength is ok as it is. People just need to learn to fit ECCM, and the RIGHT racial one... And actually turn it on. Not all ships have spare mid slot to fit ECCM, as already was said. I have good news for you, eccm units also come in low slot flavor...
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:26:00 - [84] Originally by: Neena Valdi Oh yeah rapier that do 1.9km/s double webbing ceptor reduces ceptor speed to... 2+km/s. Very effective indeed. and the range is what? 45km at most if not overloaded t2 webs? How that compare to 160+kms for racial jammers?.. Ceptors aint the only ships in eve that rapiers can web, and rapiers are very effective when used correctly. Originally by: Neena Valdi Paper thin arazu scrambles ppl on woah whole 20km... How that compared to 160+kms for racial jammers?.. The arazu is great when used along side a good dmg dealer as it can scram and damp a target ship to uselessness while also adding dps. Try doing that with a falcon and a single missed jam against a BS or CS ect will see your dmg dealer in real trouble..... Originally by: Neena Valdi Show me a FC who would prefer any other recon over falcon if he given a choice?.. In a 2 man recon/hac gang the falcon is not even close to being the best recon for the job, in fact its the worst. In a larger gang its ok as far as effect is concerned but a gang with eccm fitted ships in it will kick ass and make it rather weak, try reading the killmail on the previous page and they did not even have eccm fitted.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:35:00 - [85] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 20:36:15 Originally by: Neena Valdi Originally by: lecrotta I have good news for you, eccm units also come in low slot flavor... Go check its effectiveness. Compared to low slot sig amps vs mid slot sensor boosters?. mid slot mod t2 sensor booster 60% low slot mod t2 sig amp 30% mid slot mod eccm 96% low slot mod eccm 48% Questions? comments?..looks like low slot mods are 50% of the mid slot ones to me...
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:47:00 - [86] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 20:57:51 Originally by: Jalif Gallente Recons, Can damp only 1 target and disrupt it from about ~40km 48KM disrupt without overheat actually, and its damps guaranteed no fail effect makes it a great ship for 2 man roaming killing against most ships. Originally by: Jalif Minmatar Recons, Can hold only hold 1 target & sometimes 2 webs aren't enough at ~40km A great tackler when used in the right circumstances. Originally by: Jalif Amarrian Recons, Can weapon disrup turret ships only and can kill its cap pretty fast and that only on 1 target at ~40km. The totally best solo recon ship, also good with a buddy against most types of ships especially turret boats due to cap and TD killing bonuses. Originally by: Jalif Caldari Recons Can Jam maybe even up to 5 ships (with a bit of luck, but 3 for sure) from a 200km distance. The biggest 2 words in that sentence and one that all the other recons did not have in theirs is MAYBE JAM, making the falcon a dice roll if it gets popped or not if its used at close range even against 1 ship. OKish against non eccm fitted gangs that are fitted only for close range gank/tank as long as it is at range.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:50:00 - [87] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 20:50:47 Originally by: lecrotta I have good news for you, eccm units also come in low slot flavor... Originally by: Neena Valdi Go check its effectiveness. Compared to low slot sig amps vs mid slot sensor boosters?. mid slot mod t2 sensor booster 60% low slot mod t2 sig amp 30% mid slot mod eccm 96% low slot mod eccm 48% Questions? comments?..looks like low slot mods are 50% of the mid slot ones to me... Originally by: Neena Valdi Useless. Like all your posts. Owned you again just like all your other silly, uneducated and worthless comparisons.. Originally by: Neena Valdi /ignore YAY
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:55:00 - [88] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 21:13:55 Originally by: ChalSto Armor-Hardeners give u EXACT a value how much dps u can soak up. It gives you EXACT a clue how much beating you can absorb. Sorry bud but hardeners do not tell you what ships are going to be shooting you how they are fitted and how much dmg they are going to be doing. They may tell you that if your hit with thermal you can soak up 75% of every hit but without knowing how much that hit is going to be the figures are useless. Originally by: ChalSto But nothing will defend you against ecm RANDOMNES. A pure LUCK based system, which has defacto NO counter. If you consider a counter to be summat that can totally protect you i suggest you stay docked cos its the only 100% guaranteed counter in eve. ecm supported gang owned...,no eccm fitted on the winners.....
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 21:50:00 - [89] Originally by: Neena Valdi Originally by: Dray For the people who ignored my killboard link, have a look, seriously u need to get over your doubt and get proactive or just stay docked, if you cant help yourself dont expect others to do it for you, namely devs and nerfs. Its a sad fact of eve that there will always be people who try and those who expect. One fight like that isn't showing anything. Looks like 7 ships without ecm or eccm kicking the crap out of a gang of 13 that included 2 bonused ecm support ships (around 11 jammers depending on fit against 7 ships). Do you mean its showing what you do not wanna see?.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 22:24:00 - [90] Originally by: Gromik Originally by: Dray Too many people believe the hype instead of trying things out. Indeed, just be careful not to do what the people believing the hype do and conclude that just because an encounter went one way once, it will go that way every time. If it did go that way every time ecm would be underpowered. The fact is that if it can go either way shows that pilot skill and awareness are the key to successful combat.

lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 22:39:00 - [91] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 22:42:25 Originally by: Neena Valdi Now imagine if it was two properly fitted high SP falcons with experienced pilots and you faced a group of 4-5 properly fitted BS's of high SP pilots with smaller support If your gonna refit the gang and improve their skills can the other gang refit with eccm as well?. Originally by: Neena Valdi and you actually fought them all at once - not picking them by 1 in a span of 40 minutes. 10 of those ships died between 20:03 - 20:08 the first 3 died between 19:32 - 19:33 so claiming that they all died one at a time over 40 mins is a large exaggeration if not deliberate lie.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 22:55:00 - [92] Edited by: lecrotta on 28/01/2009 23:06:55 Originally by: Neena Valdi I mean at least some kind of balancing so I CAN choose other recons into my gang over Falcons and not fill silly stupid afterwards. That is a issue with the other recons and their viability in gang combat, and its not the falcons fault they are not great at it and better at solo and 2 manish gang combat. If your asked to join a sniper operation and you turn up in a blaster Hyperion ppl are gonna laugh at you.......horses for courses. Originally by: Neena Valdi you just said you was jammed. Tech 2 BS by low sp improperly fitted falcon. How that is not overpowered?.. Yea but he was jammed while using the T2 BS (SIN/REDEEMER) that has the super duper sig str.....that just happens to be exactly the same as the T1 equivalent......... Neena Valdi LOL you really should know what your talking about and check details before you post dude.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 00:35:00 - [93] Originally by: ry ry Originally by: Dray To be fair the falcon being the i-win button is exactly what most people are saying. no it isn't. it's what you keep saying they were saying. It may not be what you are saying but its exactly what a lot of other ppl are saying. And ppl also point out how badly the other recons suck at gang combat so claiming to want the falcon to be as effective as the others in gang combat is the same as killing it cos at least the others are great at solo and 2 man roaming ops.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 10:58:00 - [94] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 11:13:00 Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: lecrotta And ppl also point out how badly the other recons suck at gang combat so claiming to want the falcon to be as effective as the others in gang combat is the same as killing it cos at least the others are great at solo and 2 man roaming ops. Dude you are pretty stupid. Falcon is awesome for solo. Just AWESOME. I always take Falcon on my solo trips. Duo of Falcon and Vaga (who the hell uses less than 2 accounts when soloing anyways???) works like a charm! Not a single time I saved my vaga with Falcon by jamming 2 and even 3 tacklers. Welcome to World of Falcons. Solo.... with 2 or 3 ships(ie: a small gang)?. Welcome to the wonderful world of redefining the dictionary...
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 11:29:00 - [95] Originally by: devilator LECROTTA answer me this. What other non-capitol ship has to be accounted for more than the falcon.. what other non-capitol ship can take out or neutralize 3 or more target at once. what other ship is all I ask. Most of the other recons depending on the circumstances, and their effects are guaranteed. Originally by: devilator Also Do u change the set up of a roaming gang ship to directly counter a curse/pilgrim,Rapier/huginn. Do a lot of fits have CAP modules...yup, do all fits have a mwd...yup, seems to me ppl fit counters to the nuets on the curse/pilgrim and rapiers/huggins... Originally by: devilator FOR ONE FREAKIN SHIP,its ONE FREAKIN SHIP which will always have friends. what about the other 8-10 ships I have to worry about should i just forget those to specifically equip for ONE FREAKIN SHIP. That just sounds crazy. Sheesh take deep breaths.....you only really need adapt a couple of ships in your gang and use a single eccm on each to remove the threat of the falcon, after all they proly are all fitted with anti web and nuet modules (mwd/cap mods) already. Originally by: devilator NO Other cruiser size vessels has that effect... As per usual you utterly miss the point of your comment. ECM NEEDS to be fitted on a dedicated ship, using 6 mids and 3 lows to be even marginally effective. WEBS can and are fitted on every class of ship in the game and are fully effected, and NUETS are fitted almost as standard on BS nowadays. NO OTHER SHIPS BUT SPECIALIZED ECM SHIPS ARE WORTH PUTTING ECM ON, AND EVEN THOSE NEED TO DEDICATE ALMOST ALL THEIR MIDS AND LOWS TO MAKE THE SHIP MARGINALLY EFFECTIVE. AND EVEN THEN A SINGE ECCM FITTED ON A COUPLE OF THE OPOSING GANGS SHIPS CAN MAKE THEM DEAD, GONE OR WORTHLESS...
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 11:38:00 - [96] Originally by: ry ry unless they have a base sensor strength lower than ten or eleven, in that case a single eccm is almost useless. That is not true as ships with low sig str reap greater benefit than those with high., eg: A ship with say 9 sig str against a falcon with 14 jam str can never break the falcons jam in a million years, but with a single eccm he gets 18 sig str giving him around 30% chance to break the jam cycle. So from guaranteed never ever to 30% is awsome tbh. Originally by: ry ry personally i'd be inclined to agree with the guys who suggested falcon needs a range reduction, falcons would still be good, but they wouldn't be able to sit at extreme range being good. They would be worthless, the reason why ppl wanna range reduction is cos they know the falcon misses jams and reducing it into the range of their guns means they will never need to fit eccm or adjust their fits to be more versatile from their standard gank/tank fits......
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 11:55:00 - [97] Originally by: ry ry Originally by: lecrotta So from guaranteed never ever to 30% is awsome tbh. 70% chance of being jammed isn't all that awesome. 1 mod making a t1 frig with 9 sig str go from 100% perma with no chance ever to break a jam....to 70% against a fully t2 fitted, max skilled, T2, fully slot and rig dedicated ship?. Its large bud.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 11:59:00 - [98] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 12:02:21 Originally by: ry ry Originally by: lecrotta They would be worthless, the reason why ppl wanna range reduction is cos they know the falcon misses jams and reducing it into the range of their guns means they will never need to fit eccm or adjust their fits to be more versatile from their standard gank/tank fits...... i can't be bothered to trawl EFT (plus i'm at work) but what ships can hit reliably and for decent damage at 200k whilst fitting 2x eccm? what sort of locktimes are they getting on a ship with a 180m sig radius? No need for 2 eccm as just one will do, id proly go for the rokh myself as it has a base sig str of 24 so a single eccm whacks that upto 48 and easily has the range. Although most BS that can hit at snipe range would do, the rokh would be my preferred type and has the best range, and slot layout as well i suppose. And it can still be RR'd by its gang mates that are fitted with the standard and rather brainless gank/tank.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 12:11:00 - [99] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 12:12:46 Originally by: daisy dook Let me simplify this to rock scissors and paper: Paper > Rock > Scissors > Paper ECM + Gank+Tank > Gank+Tank > ECCMed Gank+Tank > ECM I would say it goes more like this tbh. ECM + Gank+Tank > Gank+Tank ECCMed Gank+Tank > ECM + Gank+Tank ECM + ECCMed Gank+Tank > all of the above. ECM + Gank+Tank + a small % fitted for range+eccm > all of the above. I would sat this is closer.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 12:19:00 - [100] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 12:21:06 Originally by: ry ry sniping rohk isn't much of a roaming ship. what about hacs? can a muninn track & hit for decent damage at 200k and lock a falcon before it cloaks/warps? it's only got a sensor strength of 13, so you'd be best off sticking 2 eccm on it to make sure you could do that you've specifically fitted to do. a propulsion mod of some kind is always handy too. no sensor boosters though, so you'd probably need to fit five TE2s to hit at 150km with tremor. i don't think this is viable, given that a nearby pilot farting may be enough to cause it to kerslode. eagle maybe? If you wanna be static in a hac gang and not mobile around the gate/station or where ever you are fighting i suppose the eagle, vulture ect can hit out that far. Although a HAC/recon/CS/BC style of gangs str is its mobility so sitting still is not really the best of ideas unless you largely outnumber the enemy of have a good logistic ship spider tank going on. And then onieros would be a great benefit and the ships of choice to boost your range fitted ships and they also can be easily eccm fitted and has a very juicy base sig str of 20.

lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 12:23:00 - [101] Originally by: daisy dook You know what they say about simplifications... True but as a base line to work too and all other things being equal (lol)... ok as equal as you can make them, the premise is accurate.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 12:35:00 - [102] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 12:35:18 Originally by: ry ry so you're saying that sniping battleships with eccm are the best way to combat falcons. In BS gangs a couple fitted like that are great yes. Originally by: ry ry However if you do not have a sniping battleship with your roaming gang you should take advantage of your mobility and either run away from gangs with falcons Reposition not run away. Originally by: ry ry or primary the recons and burn ~150k out If you think that's what i was saying then you need to work on a broader vocabulary and practical pvp knowledge base. If the falcon can make BM's around the gate and use them in the scenario you set i see no reason why yor hac gang should not be assigned some and have the ability to use them as well. Originally by: ry ry and that both of gang compositions benefit from a logistics spider tank? It can do although its about available numbers vs most effective gang composition, you would have to decide that as its utterly relative to what you got when you form.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 12:51:00 - [103] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 12:53:00 Originally by: ry ry aah, a tactical withdrawal. If your out of position of course, its the only sensible thing to do. Originally by: ry ry doesn't that rely on already having bookmarks around the gate? Are you referring to the falcon?..if so then yes the falcon does rely on having prepared BM's, or are you referring to your gang jumping into a prepared camp..cos that is yes as well. Originally by: ry ry or do you mean an inty starts making snipe spots for your mid-range hacs to warp to. No need for the inty to make new ones just warp to the ones you already had, just like the ones your giving the opposing falcon.... Originally by: ry ry won't at least some of your gang be tackled, so you only manage to warp some of them off out of range. Im not sure what kind of combat you have been taught but you will have scouted the camp and decided to engage it, in that scenario your tanked ships would uncloak slightly before the ones you assign to deal with the falcon with either range or by warping to a BM within weapons range of it. After all your gank/tank fits should be more than happy enough to sit at gank/tank range while your other ships deal with the jammer.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 12:58:00 - [104] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 12:59:17 Originally by: ry ry wrong racials? **** t1 fits? pilot error? who knows. Or they just aint that great and team work, ability and pvp knowledge works wonders against them and the gangs they are in. Much more preferable to the "easier to cry than to try" attitude ppl seem to have on here.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 13:10:00 - [105] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 13:13:16 Originally by: ry ry basically you're saying "engage the gang as normal and send somebody to kill the falcon". not being funny mate but what on earth do you think people usually do? They try to "burn out" 150 km according to you.... Originally by: ry ry burn ~150k out NEWS FLASH..a prepared gate camp with ships fitted and setup at long and short range with prepared BM's has the advantage over a unprepared team jumping into it....
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 13:28:00 - [106] Originally by: Embarcadero Holy crap you are really really stupid. Do you even PLAY EVE? Who the hell flys ONE ship in 0.0 when solo? Solo means 1 player. It doesn't mean 1 ship. Go play the game before posting more of your nonsense here. Solo can mean both MUPPET. And even so the predictable effects of the other recons make them far better options for 2ish ship teams, controlled by one player or not....
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 13:30:00 - [107] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 13:33:49 Originally by: Embarcadero One word: warp core stabilizers. That is 3 words muppet. Two words,..... guaranteed effect.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 13:34:00 - [108] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 13:36:07 Originally by: Embarcadero Like what? 1. Jamming a high dmg ship while your tackler/dmg dealer kills it, jam fails target ship eats your tackler dmg dealer. Damping or disrupting a the same ship to below the range of your tackler/dmg dealer, damps and disruptors never fail = i-win yay. Go back to pvp school jr. Originally by: Embarcadero God bless idiots... they are so amusing You do seem to be amusing yourself..
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 13:38:00 - [109] Originally by: Embarcadero One word to you: spider tank. That is two words again.. Nuets kill spider tanks..
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 13:44:00 - [110] Originally by: Embarcadero Oh yeah damps could sure help against 2 ranis's that had my vaga webbed and scrambled. So great you found a scenario that you may lose against although vagas can be very nasty against small ships.....especially those damped into web range... Or if the vaga is supported by a rapier instead... You fail.

lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 13:44:00 - [111] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 13:45:31 Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: lecrotta Originally by: Embarcadero One word to you: spider tank. That is two words again.. Nuets kill spider tanks.. Since when neutralizers work in 200kms? Idiot... In the same game that jammers effects are 100% guaranteed like nuets..... Muppet.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 13:53:00 - [112] Originally by: Embarcadero This scenario is WAY more possible then "vaga being attacked by BS which is 20+kms away from you and you sit there and wait for your arazu to damp that BS". Why just use the vaga is it all you know about?, as there's plenty of other ships out their and the available target selection for a falcon +1 team is considerably less are a lot more unpredictable the a arazu +1 team pal. How old are you, cos you obviously cannot count (one wods: "warp core stabs" lol) and your insults are very silly and childish as "look in the mirror" comments on a forum is just absurd...
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 14:10:00 - [113] Originally by: TZeer This idiot had no problems flying without MWD. The change came after a few incidents where dictors came untop of us and dropped bubble, and made it impossible for us to get out before the blob arrived. And I can say it again, If it hadnt been for dictors, I would never fit MWD. No point in my setup. This is confirmed, as BE almost exclusively gate camped in BS (ravens mostly but some gunnery ships on occasion) at range apart from their dictors tacklers ect. As such and with the align time for a BS around 10 or so seconds a MWD is not as essential as it is with a roaming gang, and was only fitted for the rare occasion needed to burning out of dropped bubbles.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 14:15:00 - [114] Originally by: Embarcadero Ofc RR BS's do not bring a full cargo of cap boosters. They also tend to be nuet fitted as well....why do ya think they fit nuets but not ecm?...... Would it be cos unlike ALL the other ewar systems ecm is worthless on non bonused ships?.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 14:23:00 - [115] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 14:25:13 Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: Hugh Ruka either you are trolling, your killboard does not work properly or my browser is buggy, but I saw only lolfits on those falcons ... I mean not one of those 3 was fit properly ... most likely the pilot had insufficient skill and experience ... This. All kb links posted here where posters pretends they are owning heavy on ewar gangs turns out to be a complete lolfights. The KB is buggy unless every fight BE had around that time against all ship types were against half fitted ships.....odd how your so unwilling to fully check data when its looks like its for your silly arguments. Hullshot?.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 14:31:00 - [116] Originally by: Hugh Ruka well this is BE, they actualy might have such fights :-))) Nobody is gonna pass up a kill and they are hardly gonna scan it and say "oh look you have empty slots run along and get properly fitted".... Originally by: Hugh Ruka anyway would be good if Tzeer would post valid links, people can jump to weird conclusions (at least I counted the buggy browser/killboard into my judgment). A buggy kb is a pain il have a look on BC around the date and time and see if thats working ok....
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 14:33:00 - [117] Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: Hugh Ruka Originally by: Embarcadero Disruptors do not shut MWD. Welcome to QR. WCS does not prevent MWD shut down from scrambler and has severe penalties for a combat ship. welcome to QR. Oh yeah WCS does not make you immune to warp scramble, it just increases the number of points needed to hold you reliably. same as ECCM. No its totally oposit. ECCM reduces chance by ~50%. WCS by 100%. Welcome to EVE. Point = 100% guaranteed effect, ecm = chance based. Welcome to noob educational program please take a seat.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 14:37:00 - [118] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 14:37:27 Originally by: ry ry Originally by: lecrotta They also tend to be nuet fitted as well....why do ya think they fit nuets but not ecm?...... Would it be cos unlike ALL the other ewar systems ecm is worthless on non bonused ships?. but it's useless on non bonused ships because back in the day we all used to rock about with a multispec on our BS because it was brill. I remember, but that was then and this is now, just cos it was ok 3 years ago does not mean its ok on non bonused ships now...and now is what we are talking about.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 14:42:00 - [119] Originally by: ry ry Originally by: lecrotta Point = 100% guaranteed effect, ecm = chance based. Welcome to noob educational program please take a seat. worth mentioning that given the difference in range, it's also generally easier to get out of tackle range than ECM. and a 20k point just stops you warping off, which isn't the end of the world. they're not really comparable. Id say on balance though a 100% effect when fitted on any ship in the game is no small thing...but your right its not comparable tbh as a jammed but non-pointed ship can warp, but a pointed but non-jammed ship can be popped..
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 14:53:00 - [120] Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: TZeer Quote: either you are trolling, your killboard does not work properly or my browser is buggy, but I saw only lolfits on those falcons ... I mean not one of those 3 was fit properly ... most likely the pilot had insufficient skill and experience ... What are you smoking? 1 was a poor T1 fit, but that was against my lone BS. 2 Was T2 fit. And for your info, those mails was before the killmail upgrade. Remember? Killmails didnt show dropped items or damage dealt before. Only destroyed items. Thats the reason you cant see the rest of the fit. So mails were BEFORE the huge falcon boost? So what exactly are you trying to show us? I thought that was December ish 06?...but il need to check...

lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 15:12:00 - [121] Originally by: ry ry Originally by: lecrotta i have slept since then a few times so pls do not jump up my ass if im wrong ppl. take your dirty chat to the wormhole thread, pervert. Done.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 15:15:00 - [122] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 15:15:17 Originally by: TZeer Originally by: Embarcadero So mails were BEFORE the huge falcon boost? So what exactly are you trying to show us? After, are you done? They say a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, fortunately Embarcadero has none at all and seems unwilling to check and gain some before he trolls.....
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 15:42:00 - [123] Originally by: devilator Umm can u at least post kills of some descent falcon setups. jeesh those setup are not what a medium to high SP character would even consider flying..post a better falcon kill then that please. I have to believe those setup were LOL alot even by the falcon pilots on this thread They may have not been perfectly setup but a abundance of ecm units and sig amps are all that's relevant tbh and they have those. Top slots are unimportant to jam str and range..
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 15:55:00 - [124] Originally by: Embarcadero Trinity 1.0 - boost to Falcon ECM bonus LOL that was just leveling it with the rook , the main ecm adjustment was long before trinity. Originally by: Embarcadero Trinity 1.1 - killmail enhancements Exactly and those KM's were pre Trinity 1.1 that is why they are incomplete.....
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 16:10:00 - [125] Originally by: devilator Originally by: lecrotta Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 15:48:51 Originally by: devilator Umm can u at least post kills of some descent falcon setups. jeesh those setup are not what a medium to high SP character would even consider flying..post a better falcon kill then that please. I have to believe those setup were LOL alot even by the falcon pilots on this thread They may have not been perfectly setup but a abundance of ecm units and sig amps are all that's relevant tbh and they have those, apart from the dude with the plate who dropped cyno fuel so he was proly fitted for rr buffer. Top slots are unimportant to jam str and range.. Lecrotta you wouldnt fly those falcon setups on the field would you. those are LOL setups and those are 3 different fights. if every falcon pilot flew those setups i doubt there would be cause for concern Honestly no...i would never use a recon as a cyno ship plated or not, nor would i fit it with salvagers, but the issue with the falcon is jam str and range plain and simple. That is why it got the trinity buff up to the rooks level.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 16:35:00 - [126] Originally by: devilator I think this has been a very constructive thread...name calling has been very little besides the occasional idiot word. One thing is clear we have different opinions of the matter which is fine. I just wish CCP we give us the ol working as intended spill or we are looking into it . i think that would solve alot of the discussion. thank you Lecrotta for answ my questions. we still have a difference in opinion but...meh its internet spaceships Some ppl see a problem with ecm, mostly those that fly in limited range gank/tank gangs and do not wanna swap a few of their ships fits even slightly. While others see the problem is with eccm and how it does not give a bonused effect like SB's and TC's do as well as a buff against its specific ewar system.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 17:02:00 - [127] Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: TZeer Where you can see the T2 fits and everything... Kill 1 Kill 2 Kill 3 Kill 4 No biggie. All those 4 falcons were killed by high alpha long range battleships probably fitted with RSD's. I can also easily assume you had a jump. I do not really consider sniper megas and cruise ravens high alpha ships, nor do i feel that RSD's are particularly effective at ecm ranges...
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 17:18:00 - [128] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 17:19:52 Originally by: Embarcadero Ofc you do not because you do not have a clue as for ecm range its limited by lock range but you probably didn't know it either... Noob And yet almost all those falcons had amps or sensor boosters fitted giving them a rather long lock range ....CHECK THE KILLMAILS NOOB. Now please SHUT your hole.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 17:23:00 - [129] Originally by: Embarcadero You had a jump ofc. Warp in, lock it and shoot before he ever realize someone is shooting at him, moment of confusion, panic, (maybe but most likely not) tries to lock you, but can't cause you are 60 kms aways and his locking range is 54, he pops.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 17:51:00 - [130] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 17:54:22 Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: lecrotta You heard it here first...RSD/cloaking ravens own falcons easily..... Glad you learned lots of new today. Not really, but i have flown with BE among others that kill so called "broken ships" over the years. And try will always be > cry for ppl like us, you seem to need to learn that though....

lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 19:18:00 - [131] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 19:25:43 Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: TZeer True, but 1 falcon had signal amplifier and one had 1 sensorbooster fitted. So what? There is no evidence he had it activated. Sig amps do not need activating noob. Originally by: Embarcadero You showed me 4 your usual ganks using sniper ravens with RSD's. Thats rubbish and proves NOTHING. Cos falcon pilots that jump into a system, break jump cloak without activating a jump to the next gate ect, sit their while ravens land near them, still sit their while the ravens lock, damp and shoot them is your theory?.........lulz nublet..
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 19:24:00 - [132] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 19:29:54 Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: lecrotta Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: TZeer had 1 sensorbooster fitted. So what? There is no evidence he had it activated. Sig amps do not need activating noob. L2 read kid Ninja edits cos of stupidity are lol.....i can see the original...noob. Anyway now the troll has been once again dealt with BOOST ECCM BY GIVING IT A BONUS TO REDUCING SIG RADIUS!!!!!!.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 19:39:00 - [133] Originally by: Cohkka Originally by: lecrotta [ Anyway now the troll has been once again dealt with You going already? Why would i do that when i can sit and admire your cutting insights and the awesome content of your posts....
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 20:07:00 - [134] Originally by: Embarcadero Blah blah blah. You and me and anyone else with even little bit of clue know those ravens had 3 resolution scripts loaded and engaged at close to 60kms distance. And the falcons just sat and broke jump cloak without activating warp, or cloaking up, even when the ravens landed and started locking..... Do you honestly believe your own crap, and are you deluded enough to think anybody else does?...
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 20:19:00 - [135] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 20:19:45 Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: lecrotta And the falcons just sat and broke jump cloak without activating warp, or cloaking up, even when the ravens landed and started locking..... Do you honestly believe your own crap, and are you deluded enough to think anybody else does?... If you really were in BE like you claimed you'd know - 100% of the engagements is when they jump on ppl not other way around. Pathetic noob. BE camp gates muppet they do jump through them on occasion but not that often, so the fact you claim that a falcon just happened to jump in, break its jump cloak without warping to a object/gate, and sits there uncloaked while the ravens warpin/uncloak (or both) and start locking and shooting is the most pathetically weak troll i have ever heard. Just go away.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 20:24:00 - [136] Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: TZeer Even if the raven had 3 scripts loaded, the falcon still have first lock ability. If the falcon had used it`s sensorbooster the falcon would be close to twice as fast... No he had not because you jumped on him, surprise + reaction time + panic when his ship somehow got nearly popped after first volley and he's dead. How many ships, (let alone falcons that can cloak) break jump cloak by just aligning, and then sit while a ship lands/uncloaks and locks it for over 10 seconds if not longer???........ You sad sad little boy...
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 20:29:00 - [137] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 20:30:38 How many ships, (let alone falcons that can cloak) break jump cloak by just aligning, and then sit while a ship lands/uncloaks and locks it for over 10 seconds if not longer???........ You sad sad little boy... BOOST ECCM BY GIVING IT A BONUS TO REDUCING SIG RADIUS!!!!!!.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 20:44:00 - [138] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 20:46:14 Originally by: Naomi Knight Reducing sign radis is no good as it is a huge nerf for missile users. Why not should it give some resists against other ewars? like 20-30% reduction in effectiveness against tracking distruptors or dampeners used against you. Could be made scripted :) So it would like an ewar resist. Not a bad idea with the scripts for buffs different systems as long as they did not give boost when a ship was not being damped/TD'd ect, although i personally think having eccm (the anti caldari ewar system) also help against missiles (caldari weapons) is kinda makes sense with the storyline. Although a bunch of them as travel fits would make locking and catching ceptors in low sec a pain.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 20:53:00 - [139] Originally by: Naomi Knight Yeah but missiles already way weaker than turrets why nerf them more? If missiles were as good choice as turrets i would say go for it ,but as it is now it should be boosted instead of another nerf. I cannot argue with that tbh as missiles do need a bit of a buff, although the eccm acting a little like the equivalent of a missile Tracking Disruptor as well as a buff against ecm would be appealing if missiles worked better/properly..
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 21:45:00 - [140] Originally by: Embarcadero p.s. oh hai2u lectroota's main. :> The paranoia is strong in this one....

lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 22:04:00 - [141] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 22:05:52 Originally by: Tibrius Archer Also the falcon is never accidentally countered that's why its so good. 50% of ships have Sensor boost (Gallante F.R). A lot of ships have tracking links tracking computers or just have missile systems (amarr F.R), 50% i'd say have MWD.(min F.R) But how many carry sensor strength boosters? They do nothing beneficial excepted waste a slot until the moment your jammed. Thats why falcons are over powered Ultra effective because the counter equipment is NEVER fitted. P.S I have come back from a break, no one uses them still right? Most gank/tank fans do not fit eccm as it takes up a precious slot on a couple of their ships... Although theirs actually a lot of support from both sides for a buff and a extra and useful effect to eccm, although it has been shown how effective a single eccm unit alone can be on just a couple of ships in a gang on this very thread..
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 22:14:00 - [142] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 22:14:39 Originally by: The Tzar Originally by: lecrotta Thats why everybody fully supports a second effect being given to eccm, my favorite was a sig radius reduction as it fits nice with the fact that ecm is a caldari ewar system and their missiles are most effected by sig radius..so the eccm would truly;y be a counter caldari mod. ...this idea instead of range would truly fitting, balanced and interesting in post QR patches. An anti-painter if you will. ECCM does not have range unless your counting the remote ones.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 22:20:00 - [143] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 22:21:59 Originally by: Embarcadero Falcon is overpowered in the mean of the gang role, its ewar effectiveness is overpowered. Its only powerful against muppets who fit their gangs with dirty great holes in its defenses. It has been shown on this thread just how crap ecm is against a gang that has a couple of ships fitted with a single eccm, and also how easy it is to fit to wipe out or force away falcon at range. But there are always ppl who want the game and aspects of it reduced to bemifit their limited style instead of them making minor adjustments to counter the aspects of the game. And that pal is you, your pathetic.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 22:28:00 - [144] Edited by: lecrotta on 29/01/2009 22:30:21 Originally by: Embarcadero Even carrier fitted with ECCM can and WILL be jammed. If it couldn't ecm would be broken, but the occasional highly rare jam cycle is nothing compared to how long a bunch of damps can make its lock time.. Your sad and empty minded troll is getting weaker.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 22:32:00 - [145] Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: lecrotta Originally by: Embarcadero Even carrier fitted with ECCM can and WILL be jammed. If it couldn't ecm would be broken, but the occasional highly rare jam cycle is nothing. Your sad and empty minded troll is getting weaker. 10% per racial ECM is rare. Correct.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.29 23:33:00 - [146] Originally by: RisingDragon Ive seen gang setups change to include eccms, and it seems to make no difference because all that has happened is the ammount of falcons has increased to counter the ammount eccm. I know it may seem that way but the fact is that you can apply that logic to anything, a RR gang will beat a smaller RR gang so ppl bring more RR ships ect ect. There is a hard limit to the amount of effective falcons you can use in combat due to dividing multiple targets effectively between them all and jam assignment constraints. Just like a high enough alpha can wipe out a BS that is getting RR'd a single missed jam on a single ship with the range to hit it either kills the falcon or forces it off the field.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 00:37:00 - [147] Edited by: lecrotta on 30/01/2009 00:42:12 Originally by: RisingDragon Thats the problem though, they only get forced off the field, there is no real risk in having to warp out. Falcons are not being killed as easily as they used to be which is why they are seeing increased use. That option to warp off if your getting hit is a option that all ships that work at snipe range get. And while i think your right that more ppl are using falcons now i do not think its cos they are any more survivable than in the nano age, i have flown one in both ages and they are not tbh. Because nano is gone ppl wanna fly a ship and play a game that is not just gank/tank and where two sides sit opposite each other and the loser is the side that runs out of ships first, and survivability is all about what letter your name begins with and if you get called primary. Remember 2 BS can pop a falcon in just a couple of volleys even when its at range and that is faster than a nano ship could catch and kill it even in the nano age. As you may have noticed myself and others have no problem with a buff to eccm and actually strongly support one including giving it a useful bonus effect as well like the sensor boosters and tracking comp mods get. But to nerf ecms range so ppl just need to lock and pop in their gank/tank fits instead of fitting to counter it is wrong and should never be supported.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:24:00 - [148] Edited by: lecrotta on 30/01/2009 09:35:47 Originally by: chrisss0r Originally by: Embarcadero Go back to school and learn math before you come here to post your useless junk again. Gotta love the irony.... So by the trolls math 4 jammers with a 30% chance to jam each have a 120% chance to jam....????...if 100% = perma does 120% log you off or summat?...
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:41:00 - [149] Edited by: lecrotta on 30/01/2009 09:41:59 Originally by: Embarcadero Sentries will aggro the arazu if they weren't aggroing anything else So why would they not be aggroing summat else like the fast lock frigs ect that shot at the carrier first?, why would they wait for the arazu to aggro before doing their job??... Originally by: Embarcadero Gotta love when you talk to your own forum alts. That is odd cos yesterday you decided in your emo fueled and paranoid ranting that the hugh ruga chappy was my main....make your mind up nub.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:46:00 - [150] Originally by: Embarcadero So you don't know how ECM works? Nice way to pawn yourself 1st ECM activation 14 str, 14/~140 = ~10% 2nd ECM activation (1st is still active) 28 str, 28/140% = ~20% .. 5th ECM activation ~70 str, 70 / 140 = 50% Nice way to pawn yourself newb. I think i have found my new "look what the silly man said" sig....

lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:07:00 - [151] Edited by: lecrotta on 30/01/2009 10:07:20 Oh dear....oh dear oh dear oh dear.... Originally by: Embarcadero So you don't know how ECM works? 1st ECM activation 14 str, 14/~140 = ~10% 2nd ECM activation (1st is still active) 28 str, 28/140% = ~20%
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:09:00 - [152] Edited by: lecrotta on 30/01/2009 10:09:00 Originally by: chrisss0r Originally by: lecrotta Oh dear....oh dear oh dear oh dear.... i actually wonder how he is able to breathe Cos you can either breath in or breath out so with 2 lungs you get a 50% chance of each over time = ...... Originally by: Embarcadero So you don't know how ECM works? 1st ECM activation 14 str, 14/~140 = ~10% 2nd ECM activation (1st is still active) 28 str, 28/140% = ~20%
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:18:00 - [153] Edited by: lecrotta on 30/01/2009 10:21:12 Originally by: chrisss0r Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: lecrotta Oh dear....oh dear oh dear oh dear.... So your ran out of arguments? Tired of pwning yourself into the face? Nah i just love the irony of some kid failing at basic math trying to tell me how statistic calculus works :) Ah was aimed at lecrotta. Yeah actually we are twins we just live at different corners of the world Yup former Siamese twins joined at the genitals until the age of 23, he got the lefty i got the righty... Anyway, BOOST ECCM AND GIVE IT A SECOND USEFUL COMBAT BONUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:31:00 - [154] Originally by: Embarcadero So your ran out of arguments? Tired of pwning yourself into the face? Thanks for the LOLSIG.. Originally by: Embarcadero So you don't know how ECM works? 1st ECM activation 14 str, 14/~140 = ~10% 2nd ECM activation (1st is still active) 28 str, 28/140% = ~20%
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:02:00 - [155] Originally by: MaggySmith Originally by: chrisss0r Originally by: Embarcadero And over time of activation of ECM modules the chance of getting a jam going will be nearly 100% 0.46 * 0.4 * 0.34 * 0.27 * 0.19 * 0.1 Do maths yourself if you consider yourself so strong at it. ;] Funny enough this solves in 0.0003209. We have a real genius here FYI P(A+B) = P(A) + P(B) - P(AB) So he's kind of right. Almost or kinda right still = wrong. A ship with a billion sig str will eventually get jammed given a infinite amount of time to jam it. Chance says it could be the first cycle or the 5 millionth but the fact that there's a chance is not in dispute.
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:18:00 - [156] Edited by: lecrotta on 30/01/2009 11:22:11 Originally by: MaggySmith Originally by: lecrotta A ship with a billion sig str will eventually get jammed given a infinite amount of time to jam it. Chance says it could be the first cycle or the 5 millionth but the fact that there's a chance is not in dispute. I mean he's right about the sum chance. It really will be very close to 100%. 5 of the correct and maxed out racial jammers fitted on a falcon when set on a carrier have a 67,232% chance of jamming it when you assume 20% chance per jammer. Not 5 x 14 = 70 jam str vs 70 sig str so yay jam 100%....it does not work like that.
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:34:00 - [157] Originally by: MaggySmith Originally by: lecrotta 5 of the correct and maxed out racial jammers fitted on a falcon when set on a carrier have a 67,232% chance of jamming it when you assume 20% chance per jammer. Not 5 x 14 = 70 jam str vs 70 sig str so yay jam 100%....it does not work like that. Not really... you seem to be missing one point. ECM modules doesn't get activated all at once. Each of them upon activation have a certain chance of jamming the carrier. Staggered jam activation was taken into account.
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 12:15:00 - [158] Originally by: Hugh Ruka what a bunch of idiots ... actualy GO READ THE F!!!!ING EW GUIDE !!!! ECM has NO module stacking penalty, that's taken care of by the chance mechanic it works with. each module chance to jam is independent, they do NOT ADD UP !!! oh yeah ... it was funny at the begining, but seeing how mentaly disabled people try to argue math and logic is starting to get annoying ... YAY another of my alts.... And yea for some reason ppl think that if you slap a 14str jammer on a ship with 28str he only has 14str left for the next jammer to overcome...lol Originally by: Embarcadero So you don't know how ECM works? 1st ECM activation 14 str, 14/~140 = ~10% 2nd ECM activation (1st is still active) 28 str, 28/140% = ~20%
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.31 13:18:00 - [159] Edited by: lecrotta on 31/01/2009 13:19:59 Originally by: Terianna Eri Originally by: Rordan D'Kherr I followed the discussion and laughed hard at some points... Meanwhile I was checking other forum sections and here I found a proof that ECM whiners (Falcon whiners, same) are just unable to deal with ECM. Just watch this video by Atomic Battle Penguins a(531 MB, good quality) and get a clue. Flame away. They were facing falcons so they brought their own falcons to counter their falcons? Well, it works, I guess... I think you need your eyes testing pal, a nice use of eccm, rr, teamwork and skill won the day. Maybe Embarcadero should watch it after he gets a bit better at basic math and learns a bit about ecm game mechanics.

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