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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2004.07.31 14:31:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: ErrorS
battleships were designed to kill other battleships.
question. what were people thinking when they built the first battleship?
Actually Battleships where build to kill big stuff in general.
Both Battleships and Stations.
So someone build a Bs to kill a station and someone else then started building Bses to kill the bses trying to kill the station.
I think...
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2004.07.31 14:31:00 -
[62]
Originally by: ErrorS
battleships were designed to kill other battleships.
question. what were people thinking when they built the first battleship?
Actually Battleships where build to kill big stuff in general.
Both Battleships and Stations.
So someone build a Bs to kill a station and someone else then started building Bses to kill the bses trying to kill the station.
I think...
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Phony v2
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Posted - 2004.07.31 15:10:00 -
[63]
Originally by: MrBinary
Point...assumptions stated as fact make you look dumb.
"CCP doesnt think of the solo pilot at all" How do you know this? You don't.
"probably cause of the little number of them" How do you know this? You don't.
"SO its corp or nothing is what CCP is saying" How do you know this? You don't.
Opinions are great...it's nice to see what other people think...but when you present them as undeniable fact, as you did...it makes you look dumb.
You of cource have no idea how many solo players there are in this game, nor do you know any more than the rest of us as to what CCP's plans are for this game, beyond what you read in the dev blogs. And despite what you posted, you have absolutely no idea what CCP "thinks"...unless you are a mind reader or a fly on the walls of CCP's dev studio.
You have your opinions like the rest of us, but you certainly know nothing more than the rest of us.
/rant over
MrBinary
How abou the numerous posts all about what I said. Yes all of what I said is speculation. I'm sorry if you didn't understand that but I did use the word I guess. And CCP has made SOLO PVP progressivly harder. And posting a huge off topic post like that makes you look dumb, sir. So why don't you control what little anger could come from seeing a post without "I guess" or "probably" or "my opinion" in it next time. But wait I did use
"I guess." I'm glad I can get you worked up over a few left out words.
As far as battleships, I believe a battleship that costs 400 times what a frigate costs, and is 100 times bigger than it, should be able to kill a frigate. But that's just me. I mean when does it happen in nature that something a hundred times bigger than something can kill it...
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Yes, in the back, the retard with the dumb question? |
Phony v2
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Posted - 2004.07.31 15:10:00 -
[64]
Originally by: MrBinary
Point...assumptions stated as fact make you look dumb.
"CCP doesnt think of the solo pilot at all" How do you know this? You don't.
"probably cause of the little number of them" How do you know this? You don't.
"SO its corp or nothing is what CCP is saying" How do you know this? You don't.
Opinions are great...it's nice to see what other people think...but when you present them as undeniable fact, as you did...it makes you look dumb.
You of cource have no idea how many solo players there are in this game, nor do you know any more than the rest of us as to what CCP's plans are for this game, beyond what you read in the dev blogs. And despite what you posted, you have absolutely no idea what CCP "thinks"...unless you are a mind reader or a fly on the walls of CCP's dev studio.
You have your opinions like the rest of us, but you certainly know nothing more than the rest of us.
/rant over
MrBinary
How abou the numerous posts all about what I said. Yes all of what I said is speculation. I'm sorry if you didn't understand that but I did use the word I guess. And CCP has made SOLO PVP progressivly harder. And posting a huge off topic post like that makes you look dumb, sir. So why don't you control what little anger could come from seeing a post without "I guess" or "probably" or "my opinion" in it next time. But wait I did use
"I guess." I'm glad I can get you worked up over a few left out words.
As far as battleships, I believe a battleship that costs 400 times what a frigate costs, and is 100 times bigger than it, should be able to kill a frigate. But that's just me. I mean when does it happen in nature that something a hundred times bigger than something can kill it...
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Yes, in the back, the retard with the dumb question? |
Origim
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Posted - 2004.07.31 15:23:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Origim on 31/07/2004 15:27:26
The whole peroblem consists of ONE thing: There is no LARGE turret that is designed to hit frigates. Sorry, but it is just plain stupid to fit small/med turrets on a battleship- total waste of high slots. Maybe CCP could design SUBSLOTS for Battleships that can only hold Med/small turrets. That way, high slots can still be filled with 8 Anti-BS weaponry and battleship can still protect itself against frigs.
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 Posting Efficiency / Rank 1 / SP: 68542 of 256000 | 
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Origim
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Posted - 2004.07.31 15:23:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Origim on 31/07/2004 15:27:26
The whole peroblem consists of ONE thing: There is no LARGE turret that is designed to hit frigates. Sorry, but it is just plain stupid to fit small/med turrets on a battleship- total waste of high slots. Maybe CCP could design SUBSLOTS for Battleships that can only hold Med/small turrets. That way, high slots can still be filled with 8 Anti-BS weaponry and battleship can still protect itself against frigs.
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Posting Efficiency / Rank 1 / SP: 68542 of 256000 |
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The Chef
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Posted - 2004.07.31 15:38:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Iznogud
and yes RL artillery have possibility to hit fast moving targets thats what we use computer and mathmatics for
so to hit a fast moving target you just need speed and direction to put into your puter then what type of ammo and gun you are using and the above mentioned type of ammo and a few shoot and fast moving thingy goes BOOM!
I think a more acurate analagy is trying to hit an aircraft with an artillery. Jeeps/Boats can only move in two dimensions at relatively low speeds. An aircraft moves much faster and has three dimensions. So, Do you try shooting down planes with an artillery? Probably not.
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EVEkill Visit our homepage |
The Chef
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Posted - 2004.07.31 15:38:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Iznogud
and yes RL artillery have possibility to hit fast moving targets thats what we use computer and mathmatics for
so to hit a fast moving target you just need speed and direction to put into your puter then what type of ammo and gun you are using and the above mentioned type of ammo and a few shoot and fast moving thingy goes BOOM!
I think a more acurate analagy is trying to hit an aircraft with an artillery. Jeeps/Boats can only move in two dimensions at relatively low speeds. An aircraft moves much faster and has three dimensions. So, Do you try shooting down planes with an artillery? Probably not.
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EVEkill Visit our homepage |
Frost88
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Posted - 2004.07.31 15:58:00 -
[69]
I agree with many people that a frigate should never be able to kill anything bigger than another frig, at least solo at any rate.
Thing will be fine for the solo player because of this, travelling solo in a battleship will be fine unless the enemy have a battleship, in which case of course they will win, a group will always beat one person. But for those BS players who are scared beacuse they think a single frigate will wtfpwn them need to stop worrying, it'll still take a Battleship or a few battlecruisers to kill you properly.
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I've always owned Kehmor, cheap as chips off Ebay
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Frost88
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Posted - 2004.07.31 15:58:00 -
[70]
I agree with many people that a frigate should never be able to kill anything bigger than another frig, at least solo at any rate.
Thing will be fine for the solo player because of this, travelling solo in a battleship will be fine unless the enemy have a battleship, in which case of course they will win, a group will always beat one person. But for those BS players who are scared beacuse they think a single frigate will wtfpwn them need to stop worrying, it'll still take a Battleship or a few battlecruisers to kill you properly.
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I've always owned Kehmor, cheap as chips off Ebay
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MrBinary
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Posted - 2004.07.31 17:33:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Phony v2
Yes all of what I said is speculation.
Now, that's how many of you should begin or end your posts. Carry on. 
Regards,
MrBinary
"[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary" |
MrBinary
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Posted - 2004.07.31 17:33:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Phony v2
Yes all of what I said is speculation.
Now, that's how many of you should begin or end your posts. Carry on.
Regards,
MrBinary
"[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary" |
Kin Hanyerec
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Posted - 2004.07.31 18:05:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Iznogud
Well its ccp who call it artillery (wich is a word from RL)
and that word cover some stuff
and yes RL artillery have possibility to hit fast moving targets thats what we use computer and mathmatics for
so to hit a fast moving target you just need speed and direction to put into your puter then what type of ammo and gun you are using and the above mentioned type of ammo and a few shoot and fast moving thingy goes BOOM !
and im not complaining over that its not like RL but when they call stuff things that do exist i expect that those items function like its called
my 2 isk
well it's more like trying to hit a plane which flies at 1800km/h (500m/s) with a naval turret 
of course the technology is better, but it's still hard to make a direct hit heh
for me it's realistic |
Kin Hanyerec
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Posted - 2004.07.31 18:05:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Iznogud
Well its ccp who call it artillery (wich is a word from RL)
and that word cover some stuff
and yes RL artillery have possibility to hit fast moving targets thats what we use computer and mathmatics for
so to hit a fast moving target you just need speed and direction to put into your puter then what type of ammo and gun you are using and the above mentioned type of ammo and a few shoot and fast moving thingy goes BOOM !
and im not complaining over that its not like RL but when they call stuff things that do exist i expect that those items function like its called
my 2 isk
well it's more like trying to hit a plane which flies at 1800km/h (500m/s) with a naval turret
of course the technology is better, but it's still hard to make a direct hit heh
for me it's realistic |
Kageru
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Posted - 2004.07.31 18:41:00 -
[75]
First off,in the beginning of the game they stated that fleet battles should involve a wide array of ships to fight agaisnt the other size ships.
A 14000mm gun shouldnt be able to hit a ship barely as big as it is,and flying twice as fast as it can move on its rotational plateform.
Now,i like the fact that there trying to make fleet battles more spaced out over what faces what,afterall this gives people that like to fly interceptors,frigates,and the soon to come destroyers(My baby::Wants::)a chance to face off agaisnt other ships that there sapose to face.
and to state a fact,thats why were getting destroyers,as defense agaisnt frigates and interceptors.
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Kageru
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Posted - 2004.07.31 18:41:00 -
[76]
First off,in the beginning of the game they stated that fleet battles should involve a wide array of ships to fight agaisnt the other size ships.
A 14000mm gun shouldnt be able to hit a ship barely as big as it is,and flying twice as fast as it can move on its rotational plateform.
Now,i like the fact that there trying to make fleet battles more spaced out over what faces what,afterall this gives people that like to fly interceptors,frigates,and the soon to come destroyers(My baby::Wants::)a chance to face off agaisnt other ships that there sapose to face.
and to state a fact,thats why were getting destroyers,as defense agaisnt frigates and interceptors.
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2004.07.31 19:34:00 -
[77]
Alot of what's being said makes no sense at all. It's a system of counters, like in most games that have pvp, except its made more complicated by all the modules you can get (which is a good thing). The idea being that frigs can survive against bs and cruisers (except for drones), but can't hurt them too much. Cruisers can be equipped to either take out frigs, or to hurt bs, but not both at the same time. Bs can take out cruisers with the big guns, but can't hit frigs, but can tank to avoid the frigs killing them. Then we throw in drones, which give bs and cruiser a counter to frigs. If a cruiser or bs has drones, a frig or inty cannot fight them. Obviously the circle isn't complete, which is the reason for destroyers and battle cruisers. I'm guessing that one of them will be pritty good at blasting drones too.
In general, i'd say that you can equip a bs or cruiser to counter pritty much anything, but your only gonna be able to counter 1 thing at a time (for example, your bs is either loaded out to kill bs and cruisers, or to kill frigs. Not both. except for drones).
On the subject of solo pilots...The changes being made make no difference in this area. One person is not going to take on several others in comparable ships. Always been that way, always will i hope.
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Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram. |
Necrologic
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Posted - 2004.07.31 19:34:00 -
[78]
Alot of what's being said makes no sense at all. It's a system of counters, like in most games that have pvp, except its made more complicated by all the modules you can get (which is a good thing). The idea being that frigs can survive against bs and cruisers (except for drones), but can't hurt them too much. Cruisers can be equipped to either take out frigs, or to hurt bs, but not both at the same time. Bs can take out cruisers with the big guns, but can't hit frigs, but can tank to avoid the frigs killing them. Then we throw in drones, which give bs and cruiser a counter to frigs. If a cruiser or bs has drones, a frig or inty cannot fight them. Obviously the circle isn't complete, which is the reason for destroyers and battle cruisers. I'm guessing that one of them will be pritty good at blasting drones too.
In general, i'd say that you can equip a bs or cruiser to counter pritty much anything, but your only gonna be able to counter 1 thing at a time (for example, your bs is either loaded out to kill bs and cruisers, or to kill frigs. Not both. except for drones).
On the subject of solo pilots...The changes being made make no difference in this area. One person is not going to take on several others in comparable ships. Always been that way, always will i hope.
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Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram. |
An Imal
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Posted - 2004.07.31 19:55:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Aelita
What a stupid logic? If you engage cruiser in frigate you should have NO CHANCE! point!. Same for BS vs Frigate. People using really screwed logic here smaller ship should not have chance one vs one at all. Smaller ship should be owned by bigger only in case when pilot in larger ships is stupid you should. Another thing is when group of smaller ships will catch unprepared one large ship. Then it would be fair that larger ship would be in deep troubles.
By other words CCP and you lous whiners make it to twist logic in really logical thing. Larger ship have disposable more firepower than small ship and who wants face that firepower must be smart or to be owned. Every frigate pilot asking only for hey I want to kill alone BS pilot, that's dumbest thing what I ever read!
[Edit]If frigates will own cruiser or battle ship, then what reason for BS and Cruiser is in game? We should remove them and it would fair to all. It will be ever fight even vs even. No adventage or disadventage. I'm sick seeng that all ships being equalized by nerfing stronger ones.
Really I see no reason why smaller ship should have chance against larger one in fight 1 vs 1.
I think you should have taken a little more time to actually read my post before you replied to it. I never said I should be able to take on a battleship in one on one. I only used cruisers in my examples. A frigate will have no chance against a cruiser that is actually fitted with frigates in mind but if you fit your ship with big guns and big drones then you shouldn't be able to kill frigates.
Perhaps you'd like to go back to the days when the bigger the ship and the bigger your guns the more you would pwn but I think most if not all other players in EVE like the fact that you actually have to think when fitting your ship now and if you go into combat with a anti-battleship setup you will be at a big disadvantage against frigates.
Cruisers and battleships can take out frigates in seconds both now and after the changes but they will have to fit their ships correctly. Do you see something wrong with that? A real life battleship that only has anti-battleship guns will not kill a fighter jet but there's a lot of room on a battleship, both in EVE and in rl, so why not fit a anti fighter jet weapon?
Perhaps you don't want to have to think when you fit your ship, just put the biggest guns you find on it but for the rest of us that is boring.
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An Imal
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Posted - 2004.07.31 19:55:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Aelita
What a stupid logic? If you engage cruiser in frigate you should have NO CHANCE! point!. Same for BS vs Frigate. People using really screwed logic here smaller ship should not have chance one vs one at all. Smaller ship should be owned by bigger only in case when pilot in larger ships is stupid you should. Another thing is when group of smaller ships will catch unprepared one large ship. Then it would be fair that larger ship would be in deep troubles.
By other words CCP and you lous whiners make it to twist logic in really logical thing. Larger ship have disposable more firepower than small ship and who wants face that firepower must be smart or to be owned. Every frigate pilot asking only for hey I want to kill alone BS pilot, that's dumbest thing what I ever read!
[Edit]If frigates will own cruiser or battle ship, then what reason for BS and Cruiser is in game? We should remove them and it would fair to all. It will be ever fight even vs even. No adventage or disadventage. I'm sick seeng that all ships being equalized by nerfing stronger ones.
Really I see no reason why smaller ship should have chance against larger one in fight 1 vs 1.
I think you should have taken a little more time to actually read my post before you replied to it. I never said I should be able to take on a battleship in one on one. I only used cruisers in my examples. A frigate will have no chance against a cruiser that is actually fitted with frigates in mind but if you fit your ship with big guns and big drones then you shouldn't be able to kill frigates.
Perhaps you'd like to go back to the days when the bigger the ship and the bigger your guns the more you would pwn but I think most if not all other players in EVE like the fact that you actually have to think when fitting your ship now and if you go into combat with a anti-battleship setup you will be at a big disadvantage against frigates.
Cruisers and battleships can take out frigates in seconds both now and after the changes but they will have to fit their ships correctly. Do you see something wrong with that? A real life battleship that only has anti-battleship guns will not kill a fighter jet but there's a lot of room on a battleship, both in EVE and in rl, so why not fit a anti fighter jet weapon?
Perhaps you don't want to have to think when you fit your ship, just put the biggest guns you find on it but for the rest of us that is boring.
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Liquid Metal
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Posted - 2004.07.31 19:58:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Liquid Metal on 31/07/2004 20:00:31
Tbh all this whining about big guns not hitting small targets is bull. The whole reason big guns were made, was to destroy things easier and quicker, that includes small things.
The large guns shouldnt be used 'becuase they are anti battleship weapons' but because they are more destructive, the battleships are there because of the guns, not the other way round.
[IE, big guns should hit small targets and blow the hella C r a p outta them.]
"A strong man stands tall against all others, everything else is just a delusion for the weak.."
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Liquid Metal
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Posted - 2004.07.31 19:58:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Liquid Metal on 31/07/2004 20:00:31
Tbh all this whining about big guns not hitting small targets is bull. The whole reason big guns were made, was to destroy things easier and quicker, that includes small things.
The large guns shouldnt be used 'becuase they are anti battleship weapons' but because they are more destructive, the battleships are there because of the guns, not the other way round.
[IE, big guns should hit small targets and blow the hella C r a p outta them.]
"A strong man stands tall against all others, everything else is just a delusion for the weak.."
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2004.07.31 20:42:00 -
[83]
I'm an inty pilot, but drones are the ONLY thing about a bship that scares me. Heavy drones SHOULD hit me. If anything my taranis shouldnt hit them (using the small targets > larger guns theory). If I want to kill drones I can fit 3 light drones in my drone bay. This is the solution, as logically heavy drones shouldnt be able to hit light drones....
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2004.07.31 20:42:00 -
[84]
I'm an inty pilot, but drones are the ONLY thing about a bship that scares me. Heavy drones SHOULD hit me. If anything my taranis shouldnt hit them (using the small targets > larger guns theory). If I want to kill drones I can fit 3 light drones in my drone bay. This is the solution, as logically heavy drones shouldnt be able to hit light drones....
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Wulfgard
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Posted - 2004.07.31 21:25:00 -
[85]
I am not concerned about the consequences of heavy drones nerfing on the PvP gameplay, but if it is true that is takes, for the medium drones double the time to kill npcs inties... then hunting npcs will be umbalanced imo. I do not fear intie's guns but the webber+warp scrbler combo.
... and plz dont say I Should enlist a friend to hunt in 0.0 or use heavy drones on BS (6 ogres on a commodore won't even scratch their paint)
Good bye soloing...
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Wulfgard
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Posted - 2004.07.31 21:25:00 -
[86]
I am not concerned about the consequences of heavy drones nerfing on the PvP gameplay, but if it is true that is takes, for the medium drones double the time to kill npcs inties... then hunting npcs will be umbalanced imo. I do not fear intie's guns but the webber+warp scrbler combo.
... and plz dont say I Should enlist a friend to hunt in 0.0 or use heavy drones on BS (6 ogres on a commodore won't even scratch their paint)
Good bye soloing...
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2004.07.31 21:52:00 -
[87]
All the recent PvP changes have been a huge nerf on NPC hunting imo. I have ahad a situation recently where I had to log off, as I had left my drones in my other bship and even a 90% webber and cruiser class heavy beams on my apoc were not enough to hit the serpentis frigs, although of course they couldnt hurt me.....
Its also annoying that only Gun users are affecte by this, and missile users can still hunt NPCs easily.
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2004.07.31 21:52:00 -
[88]
All the recent PvP changes have been a huge nerf on NPC hunting imo. I have ahad a situation recently where I had to log off, as I had left my drones in my other bship and even a 90% webber and cruiser class heavy beams on my apoc were not enough to hit the serpentis frigs, although of course they couldnt hurt me.....
Its also annoying that only Gun users are affecte by this, and missile users can still hunt NPCs easily.
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Cutter John
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Posted - 2004.07.31 21:59:00 -
[89]
Originally by: An Imal
I think you should have taken a little more time to actually read my post before you replied to it. I never said I should be able to take on a battleship in one on one. I only used cruisers in my examples. A frigate will have no chance against a cruiser that is actually fitted with frigates in mind but if you fit your ship with big guns and big drones then you shouldn't be able to kill frigates.
question though... if a cruiser has to fit out to kill frigates to be effective against frigates, shouldnt a frigate have to fit out to kill cruisers, and then be ineffective against other frigs? i.e. make small turrets really only damaging to other frigs, and then introduce new turrets that can hurt the cruiser? currently they have to make no sacrifices to hurt ships larger than them and still be effective against other frigs.
My Idea Thread
Give Drones Love! |
Cutter John
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Posted - 2004.07.31 21:59:00 -
[90]
Originally by: An Imal
I think you should have taken a little more time to actually read my post before you replied to it. I never said I should be able to take on a battleship in one on one. I only used cruisers in my examples. A frigate will have no chance against a cruiser that is actually fitted with frigates in mind but if you fit your ship with big guns and big drones then you shouldn't be able to kill frigates.
question though... if a cruiser has to fit out to kill frigates to be effective against frigates, shouldnt a frigate have to fit out to kill cruisers, and then be ineffective against other frigs? i.e. make small turrets really only damaging to other frigs, and then introduce new turrets that can hurt the cruiser? currently they have to make no sacrifices to hurt ships larger than them and still be effective against other frigs.
My Idea Thread
Give Drones Love! |
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