| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
TraininVain
   |
Posted - 2009.01.28 03:21:00 -
[31]
Edited by: TraininVain on 28/01/2009 03:27:07
My understanding of "grid" was that it was anything you could actually physically see in space on your overview / stuff your client loads and shows in space with you. "Off grid" means something isn't visible in space / on your overview.
You can warp from one point to another on the same grid provided you're at least 150km from where you want to warp to. This warp-in point can be a friendly ship, a wreck, a bookmark but not a hostile ship.
I believe I've seen this thing with a ship being less than 150km away and suddenly being on the next grid and disappearing from view. I could be mistaken though.
You generally have to go a couple hundred km to be off grid.
"Infinipoint" refers to the focused script mode of the Warp Disruption Field Generator on a Heavy InterdiCtor. In this mode it functions as a 30km infinite strength warp disruptor.
"Bubbled" means there's some sort of bubble on a gate in 0.0 and can refer to the other mode of the HICs WDFG. |
Maverick 52
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 03:26:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: xJohnnyDx
Originally by: Booshk
Wow its amazing how many people don't know what a grid is. The grid is zone around a celestial object like a station, gate, or where you warp to at a planet. Usually its around 500km or 1000km around the object, NOT 150k as otherwise stated. If you are in the grid and someone is 499km from the center object like gate you can see and target them. If someone is however 501k from the gate you won't be able to see or target them cause they have moved off-grid and moved into another one.
I don't think this is correct, although I don't claim to know a whole lot. But from what you're saying, if someone is 501km away from the gate, and I'm 499km from the gate right next to him, I wouldn't be able to see him. I'm fairly certain the grid can only be in a spherical area around your own ship, not an object in space, or structures like a Rubik's Cube, just for that reason.
From what I've seen and experienced, the bolded part is true. I can't give exact figures on distances, however I have been in my covert scouting gates and as I floated away from the gate I would lose every ship at the same time, not gradually as I ticked away the KM's. Now I don't know if the exact situation you described would hold true, but based on what I've seen I think it would.
Scenario: Gate 300km Away, Hictor/Ceptors/ect. circling gate 320/280km away, sniper HAC's/BS 450km/150km away. All disappeared when "crossing the border".
I think just recently there was a battle report from Fountain (Y-2?) where Pandemic Legion's titan had activated a doomsday and ended up tackled. The report said that PL had setup a bookmark near the edge of the grid to doomsday, and once tackled, used the grid to break that tackle and warp off. |
SengH
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 03:50:00 -
[33]
All a grid is is an area of space where you can see anyone within that space. Moving outside grid causes you to lose visual of anyone within that space. Grids do not necessarily need to be spherical or square but can be any arbitrary 3d shape. A distinct example can be seen in the JV1V system in Teneriffis where 1 of the belts is actually spread out over 3 grids which are U shaped and interlocking with each other.
|
Schalac
Caldari
Apocalypse Reign
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 11:03:00 -
[34]
You will never lose sight of something that is on your grid when they are closer than 300km. Also max targeting range is 250km so for the guy that said a "grid" only stretches 80km planetside is just plain wrong. Really do some of you people even pay attention while you are playing EVE? |
Drykor
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 11:16:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Schalac
Originally by: Angelus Blackheart
Imagine a box 1000X1000X1000 there is a gate in the middle. EVE space is made up of lots of these boxes side by side and one on top of eachother. You can only see people in space in the same box as you.
These boxes change in size and the celestial object doesent have to be in the middle of the box.
Actually the box, is not really a box, it is a sphere and it is around you. Everyone loads a grid for where they are at and the tactical overlay is the center of this grid. Normally at about 300km is when you start to lose ships and other "non-static" things in space on your over view. I have seen them go bigger than 300 km, 400 km is the furthest I can remember though. You do not share grids with other people, you are on theirs and they are on yours, but still separated. A pilot that is 300km away from 2 other pilots, in the middle of the people in a line, he will appear on both grids, but if he leapfrogs one of the pilots to 300km of the opposite side he will leave one of the 2 pilots grids and still be on the others. Even though he warped 600km.
So in conclusion, grids are not static, they are not shared, they are not a box but a sphere and they range from 600km to maybe 800km with your ship as the center.
You are completely wrong. |
Squably
Minmatar
Invenio Inceptum
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 11:17:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Zip Slip
A "grid" is indeed a location in space. It's a roughly 150KM area around a defined location, such as a station or a gate. You cannot use your ship's main warp drive within a "grid" - you can warp to something outside a grid that's "anchored" - like a can, a station, or a gate - but cannot warp to any anchored object WITHIN your current grid.
Lol you need to learn what a grid is before trying to tell other people what it is.
A grid is a part of space visible on the overview which vary in sizes. |
Drykor
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 11:24:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Drykor on 28/01/2009 11:25:56
Originally by: Angelus Blackheart
Imagine a box 1000X1000X1000 there is a gate in the middle. EVE space is made up of lots of these boxes side by side and one on top of eachother. You can only see people in space in the same box as you.
These boxes change in size and the celestial object doesent have to be in the middle of the box.
Though the stated size here isn't necessarily true, this is the general idea. And YES you can be within 2km of someone and still be on different grids and not see each other. I've seen this countless times.
Another thing people may refer is an off-grid safe, and though this originally was probably exactly that, a safespot (bookmark) out of the grid, I think it's now also used for safespots that aren't in line with celestial objects. |
Schalac
Caldari
Apocalypse Reign
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 11:30:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Drykor
And YES you can be within 2km of someone and still be on different grids and not see each other. I've seen this countless times.
Pass it to the left nokka. I needs to get some of dat you be smokin'.
|
Drykor
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 11:38:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Schalac
Originally by: Drykor
And YES you can be within 2km of someone and still be on different grids and not see each other. I've seen this countless times.
Pass it to the left nokka. I needs to get some of dat you be smokin'.
Listen, I don't care if you're some carebear that never found himself in a situation like that, but it happens. If you want to meet me in space right after downtime to see this with your own eyes, I will be happy to be of assistance. |
Nareg Maxence
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 11:58:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Nareg Maxence on 28/01/2009 12:15:41
Edited by: Nareg Maxence on 28/01/2009 12:02:29
Couple of points. The grid is a box. It is not a sphere. The reason it is not a sphere is because EVE-O is essentially what we in astrophysics call a many-body computer simulation. Because most of the ships in a solar system doesn't have any way of affecting each other, you can cut down on the math a lot by splitting up space in boxes. This way when you are doing flight dynamics, collision detection and so on you can simply the mathematical problem greatly by disregarding ships that are too far away to have any influence on each other. Splitting up a system into spheres to perform such a simulation would be computationally difficult. Therefore the area is split into boxes.
Grid boxes can have varying sizes. The size of a specific box is fixed however, at least I have not seen them change, at least not unless a game patch was made. The grid does not necessarily need to be centered on a specific celestrial object. In fact the are rarely that. If you fly to the west (use the F11 map to get an idea of the concept of East/West/North/South in a system) from a gate, the grid may end at 200km away, but if you fly east instead the grid may extend to 300km on that side. Grids may be much larger than that also.
When you exit the grid, you can no longer see ships that where on the grid. They simply disappear. You also disappear to them. You can not maintain target lock on a ship that goes out of grid. You can indeed be within a few km of a ship and not be able to see it because you are on a different grid, next to the one he is on.
You can most definitely warp inside a grid. (The rules of the alliance tournament actually specifically forbids warping on grid. This obviously wouldn't make sence if it wasn't possible, right?)
In fact there are only two kind of limits to what you can warp to in the game.
1. You are only allowed to warp to certain types of objects.
These objects include:
Celestial objects. (The star, planets, moons, belts and stations.)
System beacons. (Complexes, Cyno fields.)
Members of your fleet. (Please don't warp to your covops pilot at 0km kthxbai..)
Scan results. (Stuff found using scan probes.)
Bookmarks. (Obviously.)
Cargo canisters, wrecks and sentry guns.
2. The minimum distance to the object must be at least 150km.
It is very important to notice that since you can warp to an object to within 100km of it, that makes the absolute minimum distance that you can possibly warp just 50km! This has numerous tactical implications in advanced PVP. Warping within the grid is often refered to as a miniwarp.
Hopefully this should clear up some misunderstandings.
|
Ruoska
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 12:28:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Nareg Maxence
Grid boxes can have varying sizes. The size of a specific box is fixed however, at least I have not seen them change, at least not unless a game patch was made. The grid does not necessarily need to be centered on a specific celestrial object. In fact the are rarely that. If you fly to the west (use the F11 map to get an idea of the concept of East/West/North/South in a system) from a gate, the grid may end at 200km away, but if you fly east instead the grid may extend to 300km on that side. Grids may be much larger than that also.
[/quote
What confuses the issue for most people is that the server applies hysteresis to the grid boarders. Ie. you cannot find a spot in space where you move half a meter to disappear and move half a meter back and reappear to the people in the original grid.
The hysteresis seems to flex quite alot depending on the strain on the server. This I have witnessed literally hundred or more time covert ops'ing in camped chokepoints, making "just-off-grid" intermediary warp BM's for my non-covert ops buddies.
When there's either tons of toons camping the grid or there is some spectacular headbanging fest going on, the server expands the hysteresis in order to delay the grid data upload, if possible. Could ofc be that the stress is not the deciding factor - but these do seem to go hand in hand.
I was once confused weather a grid was a box or not indeed, but once I worked out detecting the average hysteresis being applied, I came to the conclusion that every grid is indeed a box.
Some people have without a doubt come across bookmarks made just off grid, that some other day are not off-grid anymore. I am not perfectly sure that grids would not change sizes, but the dynamically changing hysteresis could explain most of these bookmark phenomens.
Not sure this helps anyone, but I just felt like adding how I have come to understand this :)
|
Illiya
Caldari
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 13:02:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Schalac
Originally by: Drykor
And YES you can be within 2km of someone and still be on different grids and not see each other. I've seen this countless times.
Pass it to the left nokka. I needs to get some of dat you be smokin'.
Except for the fact that he's right.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
SadisticSavior
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 16:53:00 -
[43]
Has anyone made a website that has all these terms on it? I thought Eve had websites for everything. I'd be surprised to hear that there isnt an Eve slang dictionary somewhere...
("Fascist" is such an ugly word) |
Zip Slip
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 18:33:00 -
[44]
Wow, now I don't feel so bad about being confused lol. Thanks for all of the comments, I think I have a good grasp on grids now. I really think that there needs to be an eve wiki article really detailing all of this since it seems like an important part of PvP dynamics and is VERY complicated and not documented at all.
My current theory is that each solar system is divided into a bunch of overlapping boxes (grids) that simulate their respective section of space independently. They overlap so that the server has some leeway when deciding when to move a ship from one grid to another. Overlapping grids would explain why the size appears to change depending on the environment and would also make it harder to exploit grid borders since it would be hard to predict which grid you will be in when you are in an overlapping area of two grids. Would be nice to get a dev blog with details from the Source :)
|
Charlie Ackerman
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 19:10:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Blastil
Edit: Additonal slang terms:
Scrammed
It should also be noted that calling out a "scram" rather than a Point has started to gain some favor since QR release because the warp scramblers shut down MWD's now.
|
Nareg Maxence
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 19:17:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Zip Slip
Wow, now I don't feel so bad about being confused lol. Thanks for all of the comments, I think I have a good grasp on grids now. I really think that there needs to be an eve wiki article really detailing all of this since it seems like an important part of PvP dynamics and is VERY complicated and not documented at all.
Well you need to go out and experiment anyway. Thats how you really learn how it works.
Originally by: Zip Slip
My current theory is that each solar system is divided into a bunch of overlapping boxes (grids) that simulate their respective section of space independently. They overlap so that the server has some leeway when deciding when to move a ship from one grid to another. Overlapping grids would explain why the size appears to change depending on the environment and would also make it harder to exploit grid borders since it would be hard to predict which grid you will be in when you are in an overlapping area of two grids. Would be nice to get a dev blog with details from the Source :)
To reiterate. Gridsizes are fixed. Though some are bigger than others, the size of a specific grid does not change over time in my experience. Whether the grids actually overlap or whether the server has some hysteresis function to calculate when you exit the grid, is not possible to know without looking at the code. In practice it makes little difference, however it may possibly explain some of the grid bugs, which I talk about below.
It is quite easy to see which grid you are in, in most cases, since you will not be able to see ships and objects (unless they are celestial, like planets, moons, gates, etc..) outside the grid you are in. If you are in a gate grid and you fly outside it, gate sentry models and brackets will disappear. The same goes for other ships ofcourse. When you reenter the grid they appear once again. If you are in the boundary zone, you will always be in the grid you came from, until you cross the edge of the zone at which point you disappear from the grid you were in and reappear in the grid next to it.
If you really want to complicate things we can start to talk about grid bugs.. :D Like NPC pirates appearing on the gate grid although they are actually tens of thousands of km away from the gate. I tracked them down by dropping bookmarks at carefully timed locations. Turns out they were traveling at several km/s away from the gate and had thus left the grid. The server didn't know how to handle it, it seems.
Then there was another situation where some people in my fleet could see me but I couldn't see them, and so on.
|
Poast Warrior
Amarr
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 19:33:00 -
[47]
Interesting. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |