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Zip Slip	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:27:00 - [1] Hello! I am a total noob taking on Eve's huge yet addictive learning curve. As I've been reading the forums I've come across two terms that I'm slowly starting to understand but wanted to ask for a direct explanation since I haven't been able to find anything specific using eve-search.com or the eve wiki. "grids" As in "maybe the ship is off grid". What exactly is a grid? Sounds like a small section of simulated space that is loaded in a solar system wherever players are flying. Is there a link to the specifics on how these grids work? "points" As in "you don't have to load points for PvE" It sounds like this might be referring to warp scrambler points or warp stabilizer points. Is this correct? Thanks for helping out a n00b!
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:31:00 - [2] a point is another word for warp disrupter which hold you in space ain which so you cant warp away from unless you get further than a certian distance grid is the local area of space, if you go further enough out of the current gird with people on it you wont be able to see them , i cant give you a precise size of a grid since they are of different sizes, they could be 200km of 500km . with the point thing it a case of being able to say it quick asdwell other than saying i have him warp scrambled you can just say i have him pointed and webbed there are many more things like this This week EvE Life: Fleet fighting blog is now available
Lady Karma	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:35:00 - [3] Originally by: Armoured C with the point thing it a case of being able to say it quick asdwell other than saying i have him warp scrambled you can just say i have him pointed and webbed there are many more things like this the word point is also used as to give an indication of the total number of scram points on a target. 2 points overcome 1 stab etc
Captain Pompous	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:36:00 - [4] A "grid" is what I smashed my face into when I saw this thread A "point" is me extending my middle finger to the world in general and the OP in particular -------------------------------------------- Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you.
Johann Callasan Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:39:00 - [5] Originally by: Zip Slip Hello! I am a total noob taking on Eve's huge yet addictive learning curve. As I've been reading the forums I've come across two terms that I'm slowly starting to understand but wanted to ask for a direct explanation since I haven't been able to find anything specific using eve-search.com or the eve wiki. "grids" As in "maybe the ship is off grid". What exactly is a grid? Sounds like a small section of simulated space that is loaded in a solar system wherever players are flying. Is there a link to the specifics on how these grids work? A "grid" is indeed a location in space. It's a roughly 150KM area around a defined location, such as a station or a gate. You cannot use your ship's main warp drive within a "grid" - you can warp to something outside a grid that's "anchored" - like a can, a station, or a gate - but cannot warp to any anchored object WITHIN your current grid. This is what leads to the practice of "safemarks" in lowsec/0.0 space...manually fly out beyond the local grid of a station and make a bookmark. Then, on leaving the station you can warp to that safemark and avoid station-campers. Quote: "points" As in "you don't have to load points for PvE" It sounds like this might be referring to warp scrambler points or warp stabilizer points. Is this correct? Thanks for helping out a n00b! "Points" indeed refer to the effects of a warp disruptor or warp scrambler. Each one has one (disruptor) or two (scrambler) "points" of strength. If the target ship has less "points" of stability (gained through native ship bonuses AND/OR fitting warp core stabilizers) than you have "points" of jamming, the target is warp scrambled and cannot escape via warp drive. Usually ONLY used in PvP, as in PvE the enemies don't try to escape :) Nota Bene: Warp Disruptor Spheres (either generated by a Interdictor or by a HIC) have infinite points once in one you can't warp outm, regardless. Do does a HIC running a Focused Disruption script. Disruption Spheres are confined to lowsec/nullsec for that reason. Hope that helps you.
Lady Karma	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:41:00 - [6] Edited by: Lady Karma on 27/01/2009 18:42:18 Originally by: Johann Callasan Disruption Spheres are confined to lowsec/nullsec for that reason. Hope that helps you. null sec only Focused script on a HIC can be used in high sec
Zip Slip	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:42:00 - [7] Thank you!
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:46:00 - [8] Originally by: Zip Slip Hello! I am a total noob taking on Eve's huge yet addictive learning curve. As I've been reading the forums I've come across two terms that I'm slowly starting to understand but wanted to ask for a direct explanation since I haven't been able to find anything specific using eve-search.com or the eve wiki. "grids" As in "maybe the ship is off grid". What exactly is a grid? Sounds like a small section of simulated space that is loaded in a solar system wherever players are flying. Is there a link to the specifics on how these grids work? "points" As in "you don't have to load points for PvE" It sounds like this might be referring to warp scrambler points or warp stabilizer points. Is this correct? Thanks for helping out a n00b! You're correct for the grid. I'm not sure about the exact size of it, take my definition with care : it's "all objects around your ship until 400km". "Lag loading the grid" refers to the small lag peak when flying to crowed gates or station (and big lag peak while flying into fleets). A "point" or a "24 kilometers" or a "24k" s a warp disruptor II. A "point" or a "20 kilometers" or a "20k" is a warp disruptor I. A "7.5k" is (french ?) slang for warp scrambler. I use the word "2 points" but I'm not sure if it's used. "you don't have to load points for PvE" -> you don't need to fit warp disruptors to PvE. The slang for warpcore stabilizer is "wcs". Welcome in Eve, gl, hf, don't thrust naked strangers and FLY IN SOMETHING YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOOSE :) Fetchez la vache !
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:52:00 - [9] Originally by: Johann Callasan It's a roughly 150KM area around a defined location, such as a station or a gate. You cannot use your ship's main warp drive within a "grid" - you can warp to something outside a grid that's "anchored" - like a can, a station, or a gate - but cannot warp to any anchored object WITHIN your current grid. I'm confused. I though it was max distance of the overview. Originally by: Johann Callasan This is what leads to the practice of "safemarks" in lowsec/0.0 space...manually fly out beyond the local grid of a station and make a bookmark. Then, on leaving the station you can warp to that safemark and avoid station-campers. French' slang is "station exit" for that. :)
MyOwnSling Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.27 18:57:00 - [10] Edited by: MyOwnSling on 27/01/2009 18:57:17 Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Originally by: Johann Callasan It's a roughly 150KM area around a defined location, such as a station or a gate. You cannot use your ship's main warp drive within a "grid" - you can warp to something outside a grid that's "anchored" - like a can, a station, or a gate - but cannot warp to any anchored object WITHIN your current grid. I'm confused. I though it was max distance of the overview. It essentially is. His definition is off. ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face... Originally by: MooKids I have an elite rating in HULL TANKING! That is like saying I can block punches with my face.
Kyusoath Orillian Council Of Internal war The Security Council	Posted - 2009.01.27 19:17:00 - [11] Quote: A "grid" is indeed a location in space. It's a roughly 150KM area around a defined location, such as a station or a gate. You cannot use your ship's main warp drive within a "grid" - you can warp to something outside a grid that's "anchored" - like a can, a station, or a gate - but cannot warp to any anchored object WITHIN your current grid. completely wrong. please don't give advice when you don't know what you are talking about
Belmarduk Amarr M.A.R.S. Enterprises	Posted - 2009.01.27 19:29:00 - [12] Originally by: Captain Pompous A "grid" is what I smashed my face into when I saw this thread A "point" is me extending my middle finger to the world in general and the OP in particular 1. Welcome to Eve OP 2. Yes sorry even in a great game like eve we get idiots
Captain Pompous	Posted - 2009.01.27 19:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Belmarduk 2. Yes sorry even in a great game like eve we get idiots [like Belmarduk joining our corp] Seriously though, I was just having a little fun and you turned it all mentalist -------------------------------------------- Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you.
FOl2TY8 Revolutionary United Front Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.01.27 20:06:00 - [14] Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian Quote: A "grid" is indeed a location in space. It's a roughly 150KM area around a defined location, such as a station or a gate. You cannot use your ship's main warp drive within a "grid" - you can warp to something outside a grid that's "anchored" - like a can, a station, or a gate - but cannot warp to any anchored object WITHIN your current grid. completely wrong. please don't give advice when you don't know what you are talking about Way to chime in with some constructive criticism. Another way to define "off grid" would be to fly your ship to an area of space that is not in the path of any celestial objects. You can fly from a stargate to a planet and make a safespot in between and that would still be considered off the grid. However if you fly 2 AU behind the furthest celestial point in the system then you are off grid and it is extremely difficult to find you. ---------- The six paths and the four lives....
Ze4K DK Gallente Nova-Tek Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.01.27 20:14:00 - [15] Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian Quote: A "grid" is indeed a location in space. It's a roughly 150KM area around a defined location, such as a station or a gate. You cannot use your ship's main warp drive within a "grid" - you can warp to something outside a grid that's "anchored" - like a can, a station, or a gate - but cannot warp to any anchored object WITHIN your current grid. completely wrong. please don't give advice when you don't know what you are talking about /Signed
xJohnnyDx Phoibe Enterprises Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2009.01.27 20:14:00 - [16] I thought the grid was the 400km sphere around your ship? As in, find an object (POS, can, ship, etc.), and fly (or warp back and forth between it and something else) until you're almost at 400km away. Watch as it dissapears off your overview once you pass 400km. At least, that's how it is for me, I'm pretty sure. Also, I thought you could warp to any object other than ships within 150km, or 200km, something like that?
Poast Warrior Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.01.27 20:25:00 - [17] Grids resize depending on how many objects are there AFAIK. So if you take 100 ships and spread them apart 10k each, I'm pretty sure the grid will expand to accommodate them. And yes, you can warp to any object 150k away, except non-ganged ships ie: bookmark wreck, warp to bookmark, etc.
Illiya Caldari GoonFleet	Posted - 2009.01.27 20:32:00 - [18] the amount of sheer absurdity in this thread is astounding.
Angelus Blackheart Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.01.27 20:39:00 - [19] Imagine a box 1000X1000X1000 there is a gate in the middle. EVE space is made up of lots of these boxes side by side and one on top of eachother. You can only see people in space in the same box as you. These boxes change in size and the celestial object doesent have to be in the middle of the box.
N'tek alar	Posted - 2009.01.27 20:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Illiya the amount of sheer absurdity in this thread is astounding. Nah, It's ignorance combined with certainty of knowledge.
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2009.01.27 21:03:00 - [21] Originally by: Angelus Blackheart Imagine a box 1000X1000X1000 there is a gate in the middle. EVE space is made up of lots of these boxes side by side and one on top of eachother. You can only see people in space in the same box as you. These boxes change in size and the celestial object doesent have to be in the middle of the box. Actually the box, is not really a box, it is a sphere and it is around you. Everyone loads a grid for where they are at and the tactical overlay is the center of this grid. Normally at about 300km is when you start to lose ships and other "non-static" things in space on your over view. I have seen them go bigger than 300 km, 400 km is the furthest I can remember though. You do not share grids with other people, you are on theirs and they are on yours, but still separated. A pilot that is 300km away from 2 other pilots, in the middle of the people in a line, he will appear on both grids, but if he leapfrogs one of the pilots to 300km of the opposite side he will leave one of the 2 pilots grids and still be on the others. Even though he warped 600km. So in conclusion, grids are not static, they are not shared, they are not a box but a sphere and they range from 600km to maybe 800km with your ship as the center.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2009.01.27 21:31:00 - [22] Edited by: Wendat Huron on 27/01/2009 21:30:45 Originally by: N'tek alar Originally by: Illiya the amount of sheer absurdity in this thread is astounding. Nah, It's ignorance combined with certainty of knowledge. With just a smidge of parsley.
Woodwraith Total Mayhem. Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2009.01.27 23:15:00 - [23] Originally by: Johann Callasan A "grid" is indeed a location in space. It's a roughly 150KM area around a defined location, such as a station or a gate. You cannot use your ship's main warp drive within a "grid" - you can warp to something outside a grid that's "anchored" - like a can, a station, or a gate - but cannot warp to any anchored object WITHIN your current grid. This is what leads to the practice of "safemarks" in lowsec/0.0 space...manually fly out beyond the local grid of a station and make a bookmark. Then, on leaving the station you can warp to that safemark and avoid station-campers. NO! you can warp to any navigable object, be it a celestial, a wreck, a gangmate etc. ANYWHERE so long as that point is 151km away from you. Coupled with the fact that you can warp to an object at 100km, it is possible to make a 51km 'warp bump' ON GRID. PROTIP: this really ****es off missiles, and they wont follow you once you warp, also, everyone has to re-lock you. The grid is the area of space in system that the server/client is drawing for you, essentially anything you have on overview except celestials, wich will always be there. if you or someone else flys 'off grid' they will disappear to everyone on the grid they left, though they may be a very small distance away from each other, just on opposite sides of the 'wall' also of note is that grids are far from static, a light grid will tend to be very large, and will 'grow' to encompass objects that move around in it, but a grid with a lot of stuff going on will shrink to maximise its tasking on those objects, for example, sit at great range from a gate (>300KM) and watch the gate, on grid, then watch a big fleet start to jump in, and suddenly find yourself off grid as it slams down to a small area around the gate with its new higher population.
Phantom Slave JUDGE DREAD Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.28 00:27:00 - [24] I guess a "grid" is subject to the person using it. Most of my alliance say "get a safe spot off grid" which means flying away from the object you're on grid with until it no longer appears on your overview. You are now off-grid. 500 km is usually enough, but I like to use something between 500 km to 10,000 km depending on how bored I am at the time.
Blastil	Posted - 2009.01.28 00:46:00 - [25] Lotta stupid, in here. "Grid" refers to the area in space around your immediate ship. This is approx 500KM, and is determined ship by ship. Each ship loads a grid, and every ship will acquire info for its own grid. Someone talked about 'warping' and you can only warp to celestial, fleet mates, and a few other things over 150 KM from you. "Point" refers to the act of engaging a warp disruptor, scrambler, or in some cases a web as well. A simple 'Point' is when you apply a disruptor. Point or Double Point are both used in English slang for the application of a scrambler. Typically saying 'web or 'webbed' refers to webbing. Although again, this can generally be referred to pointing, although not usually.
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2009.01.28 00:49:00 - [26] Originally by: Woodwraith but a grid with a lot of stuff going on will shrink to maximise its tasking on those objects, for example, sit at great range from a gate (>300KM) and watch the gate, on grid, then watch a big fleet start to jump in, and suddenly find yourself off grid as it slams down to a small area around the gate with its new higher population. How much greater than 300km are we talking here? Because I have sat at gates orbiting at 300km while big fleets have rolled through and the grid has never closed up on me.
Booshk	Posted - 2009.01.28 01:35:00 - [27] Wow its amazing how many people don't know what a grid is. The grid is zone around a celestial object like a station, gate, or where you warp to at a planet. Usually its around 500km or 1000km around the object, NOT 150k as otherwise stated. If you are in the grid and someone is 499km from the center object like gate you can see and target them. If someone is however 501k from the gate you won't be able to see or target them cause they have moved off-grid and moved into another one.
xJohnnyDx Phoibe Enterprises Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2009.01.28 01:45:00 - [28] Originally by: Booshk Wow its amazing how many people don't know what a grid is. The grid is zone around a celestial object like a station, gate, or where you warp to at a planet. Usually its around 500km or 1000km around the object, NOT 150k as otherwise stated. If you are in the grid and someone is 499km from the center object like gate you can see and target them. If someone is however 501k from the gate you won't be able to see or target them cause they have moved off-grid and moved into another one. I don't think this is correct, although I don't claim to know a whole lot. But from what you're saying, if someone is 501km away from the gate, and I'm 499km from the gate right next to him, I wouldn't be able to see him. I'm fairly certain the grid can only be in a spherical area around your own ship, not an object in space, or structures like a Rubik's Cube, just for that reason.
Thargat Caldari North Star Networks Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.28 03:06:00 - [29] Dangerous soil this. Anyhow afaik (to my experience) the grids are always 4 sided boxes (they don't have to be perfect squares) and can differ in size from (my experience) some 200km to 1900km across. Stain has som pretty weird grids around some of the stations though I can't remember the system names (grid ends some 80km planetside but stretches for more than 900km sunward). The grid is NOT centered around the player nor do they seem fixed to a celestial object. I've heard rumors about grid sizes being different at different times for a given location but have not been able to confirm this myself. The term "point" has been around for ages. I think I first heard a FC use it back in 05 but it's prolly been around for alot longer. And as others have explained is a term used for clarifying how much warpscramblers/disruptors you have on target. The most common phrases I've encountered is "pointed" and "double pointed".
Dec3mber	Posted - 2009.01.28 03:12:00 - [30] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn The slang for warpcore stabilizer is "wcs". I prefer "stabs". Easier to say
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.01.28 03:21:00 - [31] Edited by: TraininVain on 28/01/2009 03:27:07 My understanding of "grid" was that it was anything you could actually physically see in space on your overview / stuff your client loads and shows in space with you. "Off grid" means something isn't visible in space / on your overview. You can warp from one point to another on the same grid provided you're at least 150km from where you want to warp to. This warp-in point can be a friendly ship, a wreck, a bookmark but not a hostile ship. I believe I've seen this thing with a ship being less than 150km away and suddenly being on the next grid and disappearing from view. I could be mistaken though. You generally have to go a couple hundred km to be off grid. "Infinipoint" refers to the focused script mode of the Warp Disruption Field Generator on a Heavy InterdiCtor. In this mode it functions as a 30km infinite strength warp disruptor. "Bubbled" means there's some sort of bubble on a gate in 0.0 and can refer to the other mode of the HICs WDFG.
Maverick 52 Fusion Enterprises Ltd Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.01.28 03:26:00 - [32] Originally by: xJohnnyDx Originally by: Booshk Wow its amazing how many people don't know what a grid is. The grid is zone around a celestial object like a station, gate, or where you warp to at a planet. Usually its around 500km or 1000km around the object, NOT 150k as otherwise stated. If you are in the grid and someone is 499km from the center object like gate you can see and target them. If someone is however 501k from the gate you won't be able to see or target them cause they have moved off-grid and moved into another one. I don't think this is correct, although I don't claim to know a whole lot. But from what you're saying, if someone is 501km away from the gate, and I'm 499km from the gate right next to him, I wouldn't be able to see him. I'm fairly certain the grid can only be in a spherical area around your own ship, not an object in space, or structures like a Rubik's Cube, just for that reason. From what I've seen and experienced, the bolded part is true. I can't give exact figures on distances, however I have been in my covert scouting gates and as I floated away from the gate I would lose every ship at the same time, not gradually as I ticked away the KM's. Now I don't know if the exact situation you described would hold true, but based on what I've seen I think it would. Scenario: Gate 300km Away, Hictor/Ceptors/ect. circling gate 320/280km away, sniper HAC's/BS 450km/150km away. All disappeared when "crossing the border". I think just recently there was a battle report from Fountain (Y-2?) where Pandemic Legion's titan had activated a doomsday and ended up tackled. The report said that PL had setup a bookmark near the edge of the grid to doomsday, and once tackled, used the grid to break that tackle and warp off.
SengH Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.28 03:50:00 - [33] All a grid is is an area of space where you can see anyone within that space. Moving outside grid causes you to lose visual of anyone within that space. Grids do not necessarily need to be spherical or square but can be any arbitrary 3d shape. A distinct example can be seen in the JV1V system in Teneriffis where 1 of the belts is actually spread out over 3 grids which are U shaped and interlocking with each other.
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2009.01.28 11:03:00 - [34] You will never lose sight of something that is on your grid when they are closer than 300km. Also max targeting range is 250km so for the guy that said a "grid" only stretches 80km planetside is just plain wrong. Really do some of you people even pay attention while you are playing EVE?
Drykor Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.01.28 11:16:00 - [35] Originally by: Schalac Originally by: Angelus Blackheart Imagine a box 1000X1000X1000 there is a gate in the middle. EVE space is made up of lots of these boxes side by side and one on top of eachother. You can only see people in space in the same box as you. These boxes change in size and the celestial object doesent have to be in the middle of the box. Actually the box, is not really a box, it is a sphere and it is around you. Everyone loads a grid for where they are at and the tactical overlay is the center of this grid. Normally at about 300km is when you start to lose ships and other "non-static" things in space on your over view. I have seen them go bigger than 300 km, 400 km is the furthest I can remember though. You do not share grids with other people, you are on theirs and they are on yours, but still separated. A pilot that is 300km away from 2 other pilots, in the middle of the people in a line, he will appear on both grids, but if he leapfrogs one of the pilots to 300km of the opposite side he will leave one of the 2 pilots grids and still be on the others. Even though he warped 600km. So in conclusion, grids are not static, they are not shared, they are not a box but a sphere and they range from 600km to maybe 800km with your ship as the center. You are completely wrong.
Squably Minmatar Invenio Inceptum	Posted - 2009.01.28 11:17:00 - [36] Originally by: Zip Slip A "grid" is indeed a location in space. It's a roughly 150KM area around a defined location, such as a station or a gate. You cannot use your ship's main warp drive within a "grid" - you can warp to something outside a grid that's "anchored" - like a can, a station, or a gate - but cannot warp to any anchored object WITHIN your current grid. Lol you need to learn what a grid is before trying to tell other people what it is. A grid is a part of space visible on the overview which vary in sizes.
Drykor Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.01.28 11:24:00 - [37] Edited by: Drykor on 28/01/2009 11:25:56 Originally by: Angelus Blackheart Imagine a box 1000X1000X1000 there is a gate in the middle. EVE space is made up of lots of these boxes side by side and one on top of eachother. You can only see people in space in the same box as you. These boxes change in size and the celestial object doesent have to be in the middle of the box. Though the stated size here isn't necessarily true, this is the general idea. And YES you can be within 2km of someone and still be on different grids and not see each other. I've seen this countless times. Another thing people may refer is an off-grid safe, and though this originally was probably exactly that, a safespot (bookmark) out of the grid, I think it's now also used for safespots that aren't in line with celestial objects.
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2009.01.28 11:30:00 - [38] Originally by: Drykor And YES you can be within 2km of someone and still be on different grids and not see each other. I've seen this countless times. Pass it to the left nokka. I needs to get some of dat you be smokin'.
Drykor Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.01.28 11:38:00 - [39] Originally by: Schalac Originally by: Drykor And YES you can be within 2km of someone and still be on different grids and not see each other. I've seen this countless times. Pass it to the left nokka. I needs to get some of dat you be smokin'. Listen, I don't care if you're some carebear that never found himself in a situation like that, but it happens. If you want to meet me in space right after downtime to see this with your own eyes, I will be happy to be of assistance.
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.28 11:58:00 - [40] Edited by: Nareg Maxence on 28/01/2009 12:15:41 Edited by: Nareg Maxence on 28/01/2009 12:02:29 Couple of points. The grid is a box. It is not a sphere. The reason it is not a sphere is because EVE-O is essentially what we in astrophysics call a many-body computer simulation. Because most of the ships in a solar system doesn't have any way of affecting each other, you can cut down on the math a lot by splitting up space in boxes. This way when you are doing flight dynamics, collision detection and so on you can simply the mathematical problem greatly by disregarding ships that are too far away to have any influence on each other. Splitting up a system into spheres to perform such a simulation would be computationally difficult. Therefore the area is split into boxes. Grid boxes can have varying sizes. The size of a specific box is fixed however, at least I have not seen them change, at least not unless a game patch was made. The grid does not necessarily need to be centered on a specific celestrial object. In fact the are rarely that. If you fly to the west (use the F11 map to get an idea of the concept of East/West/North/South in a system) from a gate, the grid may end at 200km away, but if you fly east instead the grid may extend to 300km on that side. Grids may be much larger than that also. When you exit the grid, you can no longer see ships that where on the grid. They simply disappear. You also disappear to them. You can not maintain target lock on a ship that goes out of grid. You can indeed be within a few km of a ship and not be able to see it because you are on a different grid, next to the one he is on. You can most definitely warp inside a grid. (The rules of the alliance tournament actually specifically forbids warping on grid. This obviously wouldn't make sence if it wasn't possible, right?) In fact there are only two kind of limits to what you can warp to in the game. 1. You are only allowed to warp to certain types of objects. These objects include: Celestial objects. (The star, planets, moons, belts and stations.) System beacons. (Complexes, Cyno fields.) Members of your fleet. (Please don't warp to your covops pilot at 0km kthxbai..) Scan results. (Stuff found using scan probes.) Bookmarks. (Obviously.) Cargo canisters, wrecks and sentry guns. 2. The minimum distance to the object must be at least 150km. It is very important to notice that since you can warp to an object to within 100km of it, that makes the absolute minimum distance that you can possibly warp just 50km! This has numerous tactical implications in advanced PVP. Warping within the grid is often refered to as a miniwarp. Hopefully this should clear up some misunderstandings.
Ruoska	Posted - 2009.01.28 12:28:00 - [41] Originally by: Nareg Maxence Grid boxes can have varying sizes. The size of a specific box is fixed however, at least I have not seen them change, at least not unless a game patch was made. The grid does not necessarily need to be centered on a specific celestrial object. In fact the are rarely that. If you fly to the west (use the F11 map to get an idea of the concept of East/West/North/South in a system) from a gate, the grid may end at 200km away, but if you fly east instead the grid may extend to 300km on that side. Grids may be much larger than that also. [/quote What confuses the issue for most people is that the server applies hysteresis to the grid boarders. Ie. you cannot find a spot in space where you move half a meter to disappear and move half a meter back and reappear to the people in the original grid. The hysteresis seems to flex quite alot depending on the strain on the server. This I have witnessed literally hundred or more time covert ops'ing in camped chokepoints, making "just-off-grid" intermediary warp BM's for my non-covert ops buddies. When there's either tons of toons camping the grid or there is some spectacular headbanging fest going on, the server expands the hysteresis in order to delay the grid data upload, if possible. Could ofc be that the stress is not the deciding factor - but these do seem to go hand in hand. I was once confused weather a grid was a box or not indeed, but once I worked out detecting the average hysteresis being applied, I came to the conclusion that every grid is indeed a box. Some people have without a doubt come across bookmarks made just off grid, that some other day are not off-grid anymore. I am not perfectly sure that grids would not change sizes, but the dynamically changing hysteresis could explain most of these bookmark phenomens. Not sure this helps anyone, but I just felt like adding how I have come to understand this :)
Illiya Caldari GoonFleet	Posted - 2009.01.28 13:02:00 - [42] Originally by: Schalac Originally by: Drykor And YES you can be within 2km of someone and still be on different grids and not see each other. I've seen this countless times. Pass it to the left nokka. I needs to get some of dat you be smokin'. Except for the fact that he's right. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
SadisticSavior Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.28 16:53:00 - [43] Has anyone made a website that has all these terms on it? I thought Eve had websites for everything. I'd be surprised to hear that there isnt an Eve slang dictionary somewhere... ("Fascist" is such an ugly word)
Zip Slip	Posted - 2009.01.28 18:33:00 - [44] Wow, now I don't feel so bad about being confused lol. Thanks for all of the comments, I think I have a good grasp on grids now. I really think that there needs to be an eve wiki article really detailing all of this since it seems like an important part of PvP dynamics and is VERY complicated and not documented at all. My current theory is that each solar system is divided into a bunch of overlapping boxes (grids) that simulate their respective section of space independently. They overlap so that the server has some leeway when deciding when to move a ship from one grid to another. Overlapping grids would explain why the size appears to change depending on the environment and would also make it harder to exploit grid borders since it would be hard to predict which grid you will be in when you are in an overlapping area of two grids. Would be nice to get a dev blog with details from the Source :)
Charlie Ackerman	Posted - 2009.01.28 19:10:00 - [45] Originally by: Blastil Edit: Additonal slang terms: Scrammed It should also be noted that calling out a "scram" rather than a Point has started to gain some favor since QR release because the warp scramblers shut down MWD's now.
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.28 19:17:00 - [46] Originally by: Zip Slip Wow, now I don't feel so bad about being confused lol. Thanks for all of the comments, I think I have a good grasp on grids now. I really think that there needs to be an eve wiki article really detailing all of this since it seems like an important part of PvP dynamics and is VERY complicated and not documented at all. Well you need to go out and experiment anyway. Thats how you really learn how it works. Originally by: Zip Slip My current theory is that each solar system is divided into a bunch of overlapping boxes (grids) that simulate their respective section of space independently. They overlap so that the server has some leeway when deciding when to move a ship from one grid to another. Overlapping grids would explain why the size appears to change depending on the environment and would also make it harder to exploit grid borders since it would be hard to predict which grid you will be in when you are in an overlapping area of two grids. Would be nice to get a dev blog with details from the Source :) To reiterate. Gridsizes are fixed. Though some are bigger than others, the size of a specific grid does not change over time in my experience. Whether the grids actually overlap or whether the server has some hysteresis function to calculate when you exit the grid, is not possible to know without looking at the code. In practice it makes little difference, however it may possibly explain some of the grid bugs, which I talk about below. It is quite easy to see which grid you are in, in most cases, since you will not be able to see ships and objects (unless they are celestial, like planets, moons, gates, etc..) outside the grid you are in. If you are in a gate grid and you fly outside it, gate sentry models and brackets will disappear. The same goes for other ships ofcourse. When you reenter the grid they appear once again. If you are in the boundary zone, you will always be in the grid you came from, until you cross the edge of the zone at which point you disappear from the grid you were in and reappear in the grid next to it. If you really want to complicate things we can start to talk about grid bugs.. :D Like NPC pirates appearing on the gate grid although they are actually tens of thousands of km away from the gate. I tracked them down by dropping bookmarks at carefully timed locations. Turns out they were traveling at several km/s away from the gate and had thus left the grid. The server didn't know how to handle it, it seems. Then there was another situation where some people in my fleet could see me but I couldn't see them, and so on.
Poast Warrior Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.01.28 19:33:00 - [47] Interesting. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

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