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War Fairy
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Posted - 2009.01.28 13:18:00 -
[31]
Edited by: War Fairy on 28/01/2009 13:18:14
 Originally by: OP
Though this gang would admittedly be pretty damm dumb to fly with.
I stopped reading after this is it rendered the rest of your post moot.
Bring more probers. They fit on any ship.
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Dkorg
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Posted - 2009.01.28 13:41:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Culmen
Edited by: Culmen on 28/01/2009 12:25:36
I agree, nobody is forcing anyone to go and W-space is clearly marked "No Newbs"
But Murphy's law is going to wind somebody totally unprepared into W-space
and when someone looses a ship to players, they'll blame the players
but when someone looses a ship to w-space, they'll be blaming no one but CCP.
Not very good NPE or even basic PR if you ask me.
So dying is bad PR? CCP should make it so you can never loose a ship?
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Elena Morin'staal
Minmatar
Tau Online Explorator Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.28 13:47:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Elena Morin''staal on 28/01/2009 13:47:15
But from what I've read, you simply cannot get stuck in wspace.
There is always an instant return button labled self destruct - and if you lose your implants, tough.
Make more money, and replace them. Hell, it'll probably happen to me at one point, but its not bad PR, its a bloody good move.
There needs to be better risk than just some asshat camping a gate 23/7, now even the systems are against you!
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.01.28 13:51:00 -
[34]
That 'stuck' scenario is highly unlikely since rpobe launchers are getting nerfed (fitting numbers go down, surely its a nerf!) so they can be used on practically any ship.
The wormholes themselves might even be discoverable using the on-board scanner, likely very low signatures will require a lot of time scanning.
I'd like to petition all you good folks with hyper-active imaginations to show some patience before reporting falling skies, we have close to zero data at this point and all the speculation is only serving as comic relief for CCP staff which they don't deserve until the actual expansion is out 
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights
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Posted - 2009.01.28 13:56:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
That 'stuck' scenario is highly unlikely since rpobe launchers are getting nerfed (fitting numbers go down, surely its a nerf!) so they can be used on practically any ship.
The wormholes themselves might even be discoverable using the on-board scanner, likely very low signatures will require a lot of time scanning.
I'd like to petition all you good folks with hyper-active imaginations to show some patience before reporting falling skies, we have close to zero data at this point and all the speculation is only serving as comic relief for CCP staff which they don't deserve until the actual expansion is out
You do realise theres absolutely no garuntee that you'd ever find a wormhole leading back to normal space even if its some hostile system over a friendly one, because the sheer bloodymindedness of the RNG could work against you after the collapse of your initial entry wormhole there's no guarantee that the next exit wormhole will lead back to normal space in fact it could quite equally lead to another wormhole system then in turn the next exit from that system could lead to another wormhole system and so on possibly never finding an exit back to real space even if you went through every wormhole system because the system with the exit to real space is always a few systems ahead of you or behind you constantly moving before you get to it.
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Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.01.28 14:16:00 -
[36]
Originally by: ToxicFire
You do realise theres absolutely no garuntee that you'd ever find a wormhole leading back to normal space ......
Ah, but then one is not technically stuck but rather lost instead.
Originally by: DevBlog
...there will always be a way back to known space from wormhole space ...
Blog indicates that returning to civilized space would be guaranteed, the fact that one can't schedule the return in the event the initial wormhole closes just means one has to be prepared to spend a few days away from home.
At any rate, it will be voluntary as all things tend to be so if people are not willing to go on what might be a long journey they don't have to.
To me it smells like CCP is finally implementing what they envisioned for exploration to begin with .. actual journeys rather than regular, albeit more difficult, grinds which is what current exploration is.
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War Fairy
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Posted - 2009.01.28 14:23:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: DevBlog
...there will always be a way back to known space from wormhole space ...
I feel you're misrepresenting that. CCP said that every system in w-space will have a worm hole. That wormhole may or may not lead to K space.
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James Holcomb
Caldari
Davy Jones Locker
Enforcers of Serenity
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Posted - 2009.01.28 14:32:00 -
[38]
Newbie Wow players don't survive in Eve anyways. They are so singularly hooked on silver platter game play that Eve is above their intelligence level.
EverQuest was just as unforgiving as Eve is today. Lose a corpse? Well in seven days kiss it goodbye. Caught in a death loop and you lost two levels? Well then you lost two levels. Brutal game that had a very active and somewhat similar user base.
So in my "I just woke up and am trying to be intelligible" conclusion, w-space will be awesome.
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Confuzer
Volition Cult
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.01.28 14:38:00 -
[39]
As a trader I see profit in this:
The wormhole rescue squad, 20 mil per ship
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Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
Gambuk
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Posted - 2009.01.28 14:42:00 -
[40]
I just got myself a new money-maker to look forward too..
Saving people from W-space.
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Culmen
Caldari
Blood Phage Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.28 14:49:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Culmen on 28/01/2009 14:49:56
Originally by: Gambuk
I just got myself a new money-maker to look forward too..
Saving people from W-space.
Originally by: Confuzer
As a trader I see profit in this:
The wormhole rescue squad, 20 mil per ship
Screw saving them.
1)Propose "Rescue"
2)Wait for ISK
3)Camp both ends of gate
4)Wait for warp
5)????
6)Loot wrecks
7)PROFIT!!!
Just get the isk before sending the gang invite lest they send something more PvP capable then your current setup
Alternatively
1)Ask For isk
2)Run like hell
and further more why do i even need a sig? |
MILK Monk
2nd Blood Raven Assault Squad
R.U.R.
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Posted - 2009.01.28 15:32:00 -
[42]
Edited by: MILK Monk on 28/01/2009 15:34:47
Originally by: Culmen
Edited by: Culmen on 28/01/2009 12:50:22
Originally by: MILK Monk
when you loose your ship in mission, because you are scrambled by small ratties... who would you blame?
A ship lost missioning returns you to square one in a pod.
that ship loss is an ordinary ship loss.
The majority of early player training is "If ship is lost" ==> "Buy a new ship"
Getting stuck in w-space gets you stuck.
Name one other circumstance in game that the only option is "Hit self-destruct"
In this situation "Go out guns blazing" is not even applicable.
Self destructing is not really presented as a viable option
I don't think the tutorials even mention it.
I personally am going to enjoy wormholing in its current form.
Read the title: I ♥ this idea.
Just want to point out how perplexing the entire situation for n00bs is going to be.
yep, I can see your point... I just wanted to add, that even noob is responsible for actions he /she does... including being stuck in wormhole... no matter how much it sucks... for me it is briliant... like I did lost my first rigged Drake with, +3 implants in high-sec, during declared war, I got owned... I was happy, I had to ask for money from my corpmates to even by new ship and everything...(I didnt folow the rule of not flying what I cannot loose)... but I liked this kind of issues in game... it is still fun and it should be also for stucked players... otherwise... I would ask him for his stuff
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I do it myyyy wayyyy... Milky Way. |
Buga Buga
Sajuuk Fleet
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Posted - 2009.01.28 15:34:00 -
[43]
/sees opportunity to start a "Rescue Corp : We rescue your sorry ass from w-space"
/runs to copyright that
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Khanto Thor
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.28 16:14:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Khanto Thor on 28/01/2009 16:14:16
Originally by: CCP Prism X
With the exception of systems that are forced to have at least one wormhole inside of them, a given system could theoretically have all the existing wormholes within it.
The latter depends on whether there are any other wormholes there or not. Collapsing the wormhole you already have will not guarantee a new wormhole spawning in your current system, unless your system is one of those previously mentioned systems that are forced to have at least 1 wormhole in them at any given moment.
It's really not as nice and comfy over there as some of the proponents of Alliances claiming everything with POSs would like you to think. I'm quite looking forward to following to seeing these plans unfold upon launch.
P.S. You got an expansion that starts with a Q! Now you want systems as well! 
Getting your probing ship destroyed is the least of your worries, basically the deeper into wormhole space you go,. the more chance there is, of one of the wormholes behind you collapsing because of a timelimit etc. Then there may not be another wormhole available in the system you're in! 
Also every ship you take would need a probe launcher and able to look for wormholes! Imagine the first wormhole you went through had a limit of 10 ships, so you all go through. The next wormhole you find, has a limit of 6 ships. Your gang would end up getting split up and could end up anywhere!
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Wloire
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.28 20:20:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Wloire on 28/01/2009 20:30:35
Originally by: Culmen
Edited by: Culmen on 28/01/2009 12:16:28
Now imagine if a wormhole opened up near a starter system, with one greifer shooting gang invites in local saying, "HEY KIDDIES! Wanna see a wormhole? Just jump through and ignore the warning!" End result, a fleet of n00bs stranded in w-space. They reach out to the petition system, see a category labeled "Stuck", think to themselves "Am I stuck? YES!" and fire away
I can tell you right now. If there was a way to build ships/equipment for yourself out in wormhole space I would have loved to be stranded there as a newb. Patrolling the hidden systems, becoming the "Ghost Hunter" of the wormhole territories, striking unprepared exploration groups and retreating. Ahh the hermit life, I love it.
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights
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Posted - 2009.01.28 20:51:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Wloire
Edited by: Wloire on 28/01/2009 20:30:35
I can tell you right now. If there was a way to build ships/equipment for yourself out in wormhole space I would have loved to be stranded there as a newb. Patrolling the hidden systems, becoming the "Ghost Hunter" of the wormhole territories, striking unprepared exploration groups and retreating. Ahh the hermit life, I love it.
Aye but thats kinda the point of eve its very hard to be totally self sufficient, even those that go out and mine there own mins to build their own stuff aren't self sufficient, u require refining facilities, construction facilities, bpo's, someone will turn around and say well what about poses, again not self sufficient as you need certain items that are only sold be npcs.
Anyway in reference to a couple of posts up covering my last posts, yup the DEV blog says there will always be a way out of W-Space (its self destruct) the wormhole that exits from the W-System after your initial one from K-Space collapses is not guaranteed to be back to K-Space it can lead to another W-System and in turn to another W-System infact for all you know at the one point in time there may only be 1 wormhole that leads out of W-Space to a K-System.
Its depending onthe algorithm they've got setup to generate the wormholes (ie if the RNG is crap) you could end up with a phenomenon I shall dub "pocketing" where wormholes often keep returning to a few specific systems so you could be trapped in a pocket for an indeterminate period of time
ie Cycle 1 when you discover the wormhole in known space, * is you
System X* <-> System A
System B <-> System C
System D <-> System ?
Cycle 2 wormhole from X decays and the system shuggies to create a new wormhole new layout is
A* <-> B
C <-> D
Cycle 3 you didn't like you could move from A to B, Be seemed safe so you moved and the wormhole closed
A <-> C
B* <-> D
Cycle 4 you moved again to D wormhole changes again
A <-> D*
C <-> B
Cycle 5 if you moved again your back where you started
This cycle could repeat and never get back to the initial stage unless theres some external quantifier that makes a system have a wormhole to K-Space every so often.
Basically from everything we've been told so far this scenario could happen where systems keep linking one of a few different possibilities none of which would ever necessarily lead back to K-Space.
This is gonna be funnnnnnnn, I predict a rise in the implants market after this hits the shelves. :D
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Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
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Artimis Scout
Caldari
Wormhole Cartography
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Posted - 2009.01.28 22:28:00 -
[47]
I bet there won't be as many pod kills in w-space. Meaner to leave a person stranded. It doesn't hurt as much losing implants when another persons blows you up. It would realy suck knowing you are the one that self destructed yourself.
Or do wait to be rescued. I think its cool that you can be stranded out there. We keep telling Newer players to fly what they can afford to lose. This goes for implants as well.
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Aeo IV
Amarr
Xomic OmniCorporation
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Posted - 2009.01.28 23:13:00 -
[48]
Some notes.
First of all, those who seem to believe that these wormholes are going to be for 'the veterans', I think you're probably going to be sadly mistaken.
I've been reading lots of posts with people going on about how they're going to have so much fun setting up wormhole camps, and such not, and frankly I think the Devs are laughing at you.
As one of them pointed out, Wormholes have a limited amount of mass, and a limited amount of time, there is simply no way you're getting that gate camp through, and back, without closing that hole. Same goes for ganking squads.
For the dumbasses who haven't yet noticed, Greyscale has stated the current cut off mass for the wormhole is going to be 12 million. Crusier have masses up around 11m.
BSes? nearly 100m.
The Bottom line seems to be this, thus far-- Apoc is meant to be small-gang/solo work orientated, no gate camps, no random gank squads, etc. sorry.
Further more, the Mar 10 expansion is suppose to bring in new players, now, (and I know this maybe difficult for some of you to understand) Eve isn't dying, but like an empire, if it's not expanding, it's not going to survive. A lot of you so-called veteran's attitude to new players is, frankly, disgusting, and a very, very bad marketing plan. I'm not suggesting that EVE should go all wishy-washy or whatever the hell, but at some point you're going to have to accept the reality of CCP's need to expand, and accept that being a niche video game is simply not good enough.
To the OP however- you really shouldn't be flying into wormhole space unless the majority of your ships have probes and launchers, and new exploration launchers are suppose to be very easy to fit, I suggest you revise any and all of your set ups you plan to explore with to include one.
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Astra Astus
Gallente
Qor Alchemists
The Phenom Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.28 23:22:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Aeo IV
For the dumbasses who haven't yet noticed, Greyscale has stated the current cut off mass for the wormhole is going to be 12 million. Crusier have masses up around 11m.
This isn't correct.
No matter how much mass is left on a wormhole, anything under 12m will still be able to go through. This could bring the mass left on the wormhole to a negative value and collapse it.
This is not to say larger ships can't go through wormholes, as it has been stated that some will even let capitals through.
Also, wormholes will have a separate maximum mass value to limit the size of the ship. It sounds like this mechanic will primarily be used to keep caps out of hi-sec.
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Yerotun
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Posted - 2009.01.28 23:47:00 -
[50]
The funny stuff, will be the folk that go out in something like an orca to live, out be-boppin around in a hac while the orca is safespotted, get bubbled in my a dic/hic get podded, and now have left other shineez amongst the stars...
should be classic tears.
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Aeo IV
Amarr
Xomic OmniCorporation
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Posted - 2009.01.29 00:28:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Astra Astus
This isn't correct.
No matter how much mass is left on a wormhole, anything under 12m will still be able to go through. This could bring the mass left on the wormhole to a negative value and collapse it.
I'm pretty sure this is incorrect, every passage through the hole removes that ship's mass from the wormhole's total mass allowance.
So if I find a hole with 5m mass, and I fly my frigate through it, the hole will only have 4m mass left.
I'm not sure what the word is on moving bigger ships through the wormhole, while we can all agree it'll collapse the hole, there isn't any word, I don't believe, on what exactly happens when a hole collapses (ie damage to the offending ship, etc.)
It's possibly I've misread the information we have, but I'm fairly certain that this degradation of the hole by passing through is what they were saying.
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Astra Astus
Gallente
Qor Alchemists
The Phenom Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.29 00:44:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Aeo IV
I'm pretty sure this is incorrect, every passage through the hole removes that ship's mass from the wormhole's total mass allowance.
So if I find a hole with 5m mass, and I fly my frigate through it, the hole will only have 4m mass left.
I'm not sure what the word is on moving bigger ships through the wormhole, while we can all agree it'll collapse the hole, there isn't any word, I don't believe, on what exactly happens when a hole collapses (ie damage to the offending ship, etc.)
It's possibly I've misread the information we have, but I'm fairly certain that this degradation of the hole by passing through is what they were saying.
You are correct that a ships mass is subtracted from the wormhole's remaining mass allowance. I don't think I've said otherwise. And collapsing a wormhole doesn't damage anything, it just spans a new wormhole -- in the same system if it's a system that requires at least one; in another in the same cluster if not.
Linkage
Linkage
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Jor Talh
Gallente
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2009.01.29 00:50:00 -
[53]
I really only have two concerns about wormhole space:
1. (apologies before hand, I'm a real newb) what happens when you log off in wh space? I've never logged off while undocked...so I don't even know what happens outside of wh-space.
2. Will wormhole space be worth it? Will it have compelling reasons for people to go? The idea of it all is great, and compelling in and of itself. However, will people have good reasons to go. I've read the devblog, but I'm still not sure what the answer to this is...but I guess we will learn more soon.
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Aeo IV
Amarr
Xomic OmniCorporation
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Posted - 2009.01.29 01:02:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Jor Talh
I really only have two concerns about wormhole space:
1. (apologies before hand, I'm a real newb) what happens when you log off in wh space? I've never logged off while undocked...so I don't even know what happens outside of wh-space.
2. Will wormhole space be worth it? Will it have compelling reasons for people to go? The idea of it all is great, and compelling in and of itself. However, will people have good reasons to go. I've read the devblog, but I'm still not sure what the answer to this is...but I guess we will learn more soon.
1. probably the same as normal space, your ship warps off into space in a random direction, and after a few minutes (+15 if you have aggro) you disappear.
2. The only way to get your hands on t3 stuff is by getting the salvage (and, I'm guessing, the bpo/cs) from the npcs on the other side of the hole, so I'd say it will be worth it, so long as you're willing to wait out the fluctuation in the market.
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Jor Talh
Gallente
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2009.01.29 01:12:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Aeo IV
1. probably the same as normal space, your ship warps off into space in a random direction, and after a few minutes (+15 if you have aggro) you disappear.
2. The only way to get your hands on t3 stuff is by getting the salvage (and, I'm guessing, the bpo/cs) from the npcs on the other side of the hole, so I'd say it will be worth it, so long as you're willing to wait out the fluctuation in the market.
Shows how little I know! 
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Blastil
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Posted - 2009.01.29 01:12:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Blastil on 29/01/2009 01:29:55
I for one will entertain myself by cross training into Amarr for infinate ammo, and do nothing but gank the scanner ships and trap gangs.
Edit: Also, if you actually READ the Dev blog they state that there will now be an option for you to fit a low fitting requirement module that scans out cosmic anomolies without gimping your setup too much. I'll probably fit one on my Deimos (although I'd bet the Ishtar is better suited for W-space exploration.)
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Rhaegor Stormborn
R.U.S.T.
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.01.29 01:24:00 -
[57]
Hey Culmen,
I can't tell if you are trolling or if you are serious. If you are serious, WoW is ----> that way.
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Jotram
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.01.29 02:16:00 -
[58]
people have not thought of this correctly,
ccp have said there will be a new scanner which is extremley low in cpu and powergrid, so majority of ships should be fitted with one if you want to do wspace,
also, 12 mill mass isnt the max of mass allowed through as ccp has stated larger ships including capitals will be able to get to certain area's in wspace, ill gry find the link
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.01.29 02:18:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Yokoshima Kaizoku
Who forces you to go to a W-Space? 
Y
I will
ok you guys warp to me at 50
OMG what is these wormhole thing! AHHHH IT'S SUCKING US IN! AHHHH
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Joss Sparq
Caldari
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.29 04:04:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Culmen
At this point you remember you are in your implant clone...
1) But you won't be once you wake up in a station!
2) So deal with it - this isn't Hello Kitty Online.
3) You should've done your research and prepared better than you did.
That is of course assuming your scenario is anywhere near realistic - almost everything at the moment not in an actual Dev Blog is pretty much speculation and fairly pointless getting worried about.
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