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Miners: your income is getting slashed

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Andrue	Posted - 2004.08.01 11:02:00 - [1] Edited by: Andrue on 01/08/2004 11:17:13 Originally by: Mynobe Soletae I can mine 8 million ISK in 4 days. Why would I bother to be a trader/reseller/hauler as a way of life? If that's the figure you're measuring your success against then you ought to give up now. I'm getting into trade because it's more interesting than mining and might even be fun. As for ISK:With my BS I can mine 1.3mil of Scordite or Pyro an hour including hauling time. I only play for a couple of hours most days but that means in a week I earn upwards of 20mil. I have yet to see much evidence that trade is anything other than a second rate source of isk. I'm still getting into it but only for the entertainment value. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.08.01 11:02:00 - [2] Edited by: Andrue on 01/08/2004 11:17:13 Originally by: Mynobe Soletae I can mine 8 million ISK in 4 days. Why would I bother to be a trader/reseller/hauler as a way of life? If that's the figure you're measuring your success against then you ought to give up now. I'm getting into trade because it's more interesting than mining and might even be fun. As for ISK:With my BS I can mine 1.3mil of Scordite or Pyro an hour including hauling time. I only play for a couple of hours most days but that means in a week I earn upwards of 20mil. I have yet to see much evidence that trade is anything other than a second rate source of isk. I'm still getting into it but only for the entertainment value. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.08.01 11:06:00 - [3] Originally by: Alexis Machine If not, I foresee a mega-corp./alliance of like-minded individuals coming together as the only way they can stay in business and keep an entire profession alive. At least, that's what I'd do. (I'm not sure if one actually exists or not as it stands, but if so, it's time to start thinking of long term strategy and organization on a scale that would drive any CEO mad. real world, or EVE world heh) It's called the New Eve Order and you are now on their black list -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.08.01 11:06:00 - [4] Originally by: Alexis Machine If not, I foresee a mega-corp./alliance of like-minded individuals coming together as the only way they can stay in business and keep an entire profession alive. At least, that's what I'd do. (I'm not sure if one actually exists or not as it stands, but if so, it's time to start thinking of long term strategy and organization on a scale that would drive any CEO mad. real world, or EVE world heh) It's called the New Eve Order and you are now on their black list -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.08.01 11:13:00 - [5] Originally by: loladoll The market has a a very good UI (just try escrow for a bad example). Why break things which aren't broken? It's better than Escrow but I don't agree that it's very good. There's too much clicking backward and forward when trying to find something worth trading. I think there should be a single screen that shows supply/demand for everything in a table. Get rid of large icons so we can see a lot at once. The only problem then is how you deal with silly prices so they don't ruin the table. They don't need to be regulated out of existance but if there's a way of filtering them (perhaps restrict average calculation to a given %ge range) they would die anyway. Right now unless you know what you are looking for it is too damn' tedious to click and back and forward between the item selection, supply, demand windows. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.08.01 11:13:00 - [6] Originally by: loladoll The market has a a very good UI (just try escrow for a bad example). Why break things which aren't broken? It's better than Escrow but I don't agree that it's very good. There's too much clicking backward and forward when trying to find something worth trading. I think there should be a single screen that shows supply/demand for everything in a table. Get rid of large icons so we can see a lot at once. The only problem then is how you deal with silly prices so they don't ruin the table. They don't need to be regulated out of existance but if there's a way of filtering them (perhaps restrict average calculation to a given %ge range) they would die anyway. Right now unless you know what you are looking for it is too damn' tedious to click and back and forward between the item selection, supply, demand windows. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.08.01 14:05:00 - [7] Originally by: Teutobod I see no problem with having this restriction. Then you must be blind, haven't read the earlier part of the thread or else have never tried trading for a living. Perhaps you don't realise that a trader isn't someone who once sold some ore on the market. It's someone who spends all day playing the market and selling stuff. They are the third major profession and one that a lot of people joined Eve for and somehow quite a few of them are still hanging on to the shreds of the profession. Volume matters to a trader. The profits to be had from trading are already amongst the lowest in the game. If you reduce traders' ability to put large buy orders in place you force them to run around the galaxy. That is tedious and wastes time which lowers their profits further. Professional traders can only survive if they can ship in bulk. Since few people sell in bulk that means you have to have a lot of large orders in different places. That way you hope to always have a decent hold's worth of stuff to haul. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.08.01 14:05:00 - [8] Originally by: Teutobod I see no problem with having this restriction. Then you must be blind, haven't read the earlier part of the thread or else have never tried trading for a living. Perhaps you don't realise that a trader isn't someone who once sold some ore on the market. It's someone who spends all day playing the market and selling stuff. They are the third major profession and one that a lot of people joined Eve for and somehow quite a few of them are still hanging on to the shreds of the profession. Volume matters to a trader. The profits to be had from trading are already amongst the lowest in the game. If you reduce traders' ability to put large buy orders in place you force them to run around the galaxy. That is tedious and wastes time which lowers their profits further. Professional traders can only survive if they can ship in bulk. Since few people sell in bulk that means you have to have a lot of large orders in different places. That way you hope to always have a decent hold's worth of stuff to haul. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.08.02 14:00:00 - [9] Originally by: Lao Tzu I only read the first half of the thread, but this change will make it be much harder to find buy orders in sparsely populated space, as many buy orders are speculative, if you need money up front for every transaction, there will be little or no speculation in the market at all. Having money tied up in buy orders will make the market of limited use, and I guess it'd make it less laggy though Yah. It means that some back-of-beyond miner in Lower Debyl (and yes there is such a place ) will have to ship all his/her ores and minerals four jumps to get somewhere busy enough to sell them. Okay so they put their prices up to compensate but (and here's the kicker) miners don't like travelling any more than anyone else does. I've been (and still am) a miner by profession and most of us seem to do it because we can leave our brains on auto pilot after a **ty day at work. Travelling is usually too much hassle. I know I'd stop mining if I had to move the ore far myself. As it happens I usually give it to the corp for free these days but I can see the problems for most miners who do it for a living. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:**This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.08.02 14:00:00 - [10] Originally by: Lao Tzu I only read the first half of the thread, but this change will make it be much harder to find buy orders in sparsely populated space, as many buy orders are speculative, if you need money up front for every transaction, there will be little or no speculation in the market at all. Having money tied up in buy orders will make the market of limited use, and I guess it'd make it less laggy though Yah. It means that some back-of-beyond miner in Lower Debyl (and yes there is such a place ) will have to ship all his/her ores and minerals four jumps to get somewhere busy enough to sell them. Okay so they put their prices up to compensate but (and here's the kicker) miners don't like travelling any more than anyone else does. I've been (and still am) a miner by profession and most of us seem to do it because we can leave our brains on auto pilot after a **ty day at work. Travelling is usually too much hassle. I know I'd stop mining if I had to move the ore far myself. As it happens I usually give it to the corp for free these days but I can see the problems for most miners who do it for a living. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:**This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.08.02 14:08:00 - [11] Edited by: Andrue on 02/08/2004 14:10:01 Originally by: DeltaFlux You do realise these huge buy orders that take months to fill prevent other people, particularly new players, from getting a look in on the market? Sure they could outbid you but because all the well priced trade goods sell as fast as they are put on the market it's incredibly hard for a new player to get a foothold on the market. It does no such thing. If I arrive at a station and there's a buy order for 100,000 trit at 1 isk I put my 10,000 on at 1.1 isk. It's only a small increase for me so what do I care? -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.08.02 14:08:00 - [12] Edited by: Andrue on 02/08/2004 14:10:01 Originally by: DeltaFlux You do realise these huge buy orders that take months to fill prevent other people, particularly new players, from getting a look in on the market? Sure they could outbid you but because all the well priced trade goods sell as fast as they are put on the market it's incredibly hard for a new player to get a foothold on the market. It does no such thing. If I arrive at a station and there's a buy order for 100,000 trit at 1 isk I put my 10,000 on at 1.1 isk. It's only a small increase for me so what do I care? -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.

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