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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2009.02.01 17:25:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Rakshasa Taisab on 01/02/2009 17:27:54
Edited by: Rakshasa Taisab on 01/02/2009 17:26:56
You seem like a lost case, but I'll take one last stab at it:
Do you know what made Star Wars episode 4-6 so great from a storytelling perspective, and episode 1-3 so much suckage? (Ignoring that annoying comic-relief character)
It is perhaps the greatest and most underused storytelling device we have. And the quote you provided is a dime-in-a-million when it comes to fantasy roleplaying games.
It lacks magic. |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.02.01 17:46:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Pottsey on 01/02/2009 17:49:05
Par'Gellen said "The missions appear as lunatic rambling simply because there is no frame of reference. It's the equivalent of saying that the Gazrenmavi may or may not have worn hats on hot summer days because you found an ancient hat in an ruin. Who the hell are the Gazrenmavi? See what I mean?"
Not really as there is a frame of reference. Take a look at http://www.hb3.info/cosmos/gallente/sebast_mathon.html that's hardly lunatic rambling. Read the items like the Yan Jung Micro Processor for more info, you get more text as you warp into the ruins and on the buildings.
That's is nothing at all like saying the Gazrenmavi may or may not have worn hats on hot summer days because you found an ancient hat in an ruin.
Par'Gellen said " The screenshots talk more about the agents' relatives and friends than about the Sleepers *sigh*..."
You know you could actually fly to the ruins yourself and see what the Sleepers are about. Look at the items and buildings, read the text instead of wanting to be spoon fed.
http://www.hb3.info/cosmos/minmatar/akraun_maertigor.html how is that or the Yan Jung one more about agents' relatives and friends then the old races? How is there not a frame of reference?
Par'Gellen said "This is a game I play in my free time. I really don't want to sink hours and hours into something as basic as simply trying to figure out who the Sleepers are. I should already have that basic starter information. Now going from there is a completely different story!"
No you shouldn't have that basic starter information on the Sleepers. Your average pilot has no interest in old history or archaeology so would not have that info. Unless you character has a background in history or archaeology there is no reason why you would have the information. Due to the nature of the information only those with a background in history or archaeology or those that seek the information should have it.
The point of exploring content is we don't know it all from the start and have to find out the information. Giving us the info from the start makes the exploring content pointless. You find some old ruins, you investigate and learn about the old ruins. Why would a pilot automaticly know about the ruins right from teh start? Archaeology and info on the sleepers is not something basic like you keep saying. As its not basic info you should not have it by default.
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Par'Gellen
Gallente
Tres Hombres Psychiatric Hospital
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Posted - 2009.02.01 20:53:00 -
[123]
 Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 01/02/2009 17:49:05
Par'Gellen said "The missions appear as lunatic rambling simply because there is no frame of reference. It's the equivalent of saying that the Gazrenmavi may or may not have worn hats on hot summer days because you found an ancient hat in an ruin. Who the hell are the Gazrenmavi? See what I mean?"
Not really as there is a frame of reference. Take a look at http://www.hb3.info/cosmos/gallente/sebast_mathon.html that's hardly lunatic rambling. Read the items like the Yan Jung Micro Processor for more info, you get more text as you warp into the ruins and on the buildings.
That's is nothing at all like saying the Gazrenmavi may or may not have worn hats on hot summer days because you found an ancient hat in an ruin.
Par'Gellen said " The screenshots talk more about the agents' relatives and friends than about the Sleepers *sigh*..."
You know you could actually fly to the ruins yourself and see what the Sleepers are about. Look at the items and buildings, read the text instead of wanting to be spoon fed.
http://www.hb3.info/cosmos/minmatar/akraun_maertigor.html how is that or the Yan Jung one more about agents' relatives and friends then the old races? How is there not a frame of reference?
Par'Gellen said "This is a game I play in my free time. I really don't want to sink hours and hours into something as basic as simply trying to figure out who the Sleepers are. I should already have that basic starter information. Now going from there is a completely different story!"
No you shouldn't have that basic starter information on the Sleepers. Your average pilot has no interest in old history or archaeology so would not have that info. Unless you character has a background in history or archaeology there is no reason why you would have the information. Due to the nature of the information only those with a background in history or archaeology or those that seek the information should have it.
The point of exploring content is we don't know it all from the start and have to find out the information. Giving us the info from the start makes the exploring content pointless. You find some old ruins, you investigate and learn about the old ruins. Why would a pilot automaticly know about the ruins right from teh start? Archaeology and info on the sleepers is not something basic like you keep saying. As its not basic info you should not have it by default.
I could not disagree more and I don't know German. |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.02.01 21:09:00 -
[124]
Don't know German! Good job the agent screenshots I was talking about are in English. Why do you disagree? Very clearly the stuff you said on "talk more about the agents' relatives and friends" is wrong. Why do you think Archaeology and info on old races in ruins is basic info? Surely you see the problem with giving all players the information by default? Can you explain how there is no frame of reference. Can you explain how those screenshot that look ok are lunatic rambling?
____
Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation
(www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
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Freyya
GeoCorp.
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.01 22:09:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Freyya on 01/02/2009 22:13:37
Forget it Pottsey, this one wants to be spoon fed and has no desire to even try to piece some things together.
We enjoy a good mystery here and we enjoy piecing things together. You sir, are just being lazy and cannot see that you HAVE the basic info right in front of you. The fact that it is not enough basic information for you is hardly enough to say that there isn't any info at all. This is like a good book you see, one bit of info at a time only you don't get to read the whole thing in one go. You get served with a page, then half a page after a week and then another page after 2 months but guess what, they aren't sequential!
We enjoy it, you don't. Fair enough i guess but please don't pretend there isn't anything while there is some...
Sleepers;
An ancient race out of 4 that lived in New Eden until well over a thousand years ago. They are believed to be the first who set foot in New Eden through the wormhole and made it far enough to survive the tests of time and develop a thriving civilization. We know that they excelled in VR, Cryogenics and neural interfacing and that they disappeared approximately a thousand years ago. Could it be because of the gate collapse? or did they vanish because they all hooked themselves up to hello kitty online?
Or maybe they found back then what we will find with Apocsomething; Wormholes, and decided they would try greener pastures? All we know is that they are now out there and that probably by finding bits and pieces of information in ruins and wrecks, we will then discover what happened to them a thousand years ago and where they came from in the first place. Bit by bit, piece by piece.
MYSTERY being the keyword here 
That is called building up tension and mystery and you apparently can't appreciate the slow pace at which information is coming out. All fine and dandy but please don't blame anyone else for your impatience and inability to do some research and thinking for yourself. I hereby re-invite you to come here again after a few months of M10 and be spoon fed the information available so far. Or you go out there and find it for yourself. Up to you....
___________
NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS
It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.02.01 22:13:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Pottsey on 01/02/2009 22:15:50
Freyya I have been updating the file I sent you ages ago. here are the Yan Junj updates. Still working on the Sleeper updates.
Race Name: Yan Jung,
Race age: Unknown, at least 1000Æs of years old.
Location: Settled in Deltole sector, especially Deltole V and VII.
Tech Level: Around T2, some areas a little behind others further along.
Technology of Note: Achieved Tech 2 level over 1000 years ago. The Yan Jung nation possessed advanced gravitronic technology and force field theories beyond T2. Have self repairing buildings that use nano tech with perpetual power sauce power sourceÆs that to date have lasted over 1000Æs years without fuel.
Lore of Note:
ò Descended from unknown Humans, immigrated through the Eve gate Eons ago.
ò Fragments of text translate and talk about a mysterious middle kingdom.
ò Suspected to have colonised other systems, even in far off places.
ò Deltole plane V and VI seemed to be more inhabitable back then. If the planets got easier to live on what happened to the Yan Jung Nation?
ò Yan Jung repelling force field that's almost impenetrable with a perpetual power sauce is in game. Like the lore if you blow it up, then it rebuilds in game. The field repels you.
ò Possibly the largest Yan Jung ruins in space that still exists are over at Deltole X, close to the Stargate leading to Colelie. (warp to Coleie gate and you should see anohter gate off in the distance)
ò The Yan Jung are more clever them some give them credit for. There micro processors are highly advance even though they are 1000's of years old.
ò As far as I can tell all dates relating to the Yan Jung are 1000's of years old suggesting whatever happened to cause them vanished happened at least 2000 years ago.
____
Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation
(www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
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Freyya
GeoCorp.
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.01 22:21:00 -
[127]
Nice work Pottsey, looks like you've been digging deep for a while 
I'll send you an eve-mail one of these days so you'll have my email again.
Catch up with you later. |
Goremageddon Box
Minmatar
Guerilla Gorilla
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Posted - 2009.02.01 22:44:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Goremageddon Box on 01/02/2009 22:50:52
Region: J7HZ-F
Description:
Children.
Leave us be.
Region: A821-A
Description:
"It was like the gods of old, descending from the heavens and handing us fire, empowering us far beyond our comprehension.. and then vanishing."
- Treatise on the rise of the capsuleer.
these are unreachable regions as that of the jovian region. just 2 cents. :P
_______________________
Hottest Character Ever. |
Dr Fausts
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Posted - 2009.02.02 07:53:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Dr Fausts on 02/02/2009 07:53:19
Regarding Pottsey's Theory of the origin of the Einheduani.
The argument you make based on technological capabilities is quite compelling. I may have missed a relevent point in the post you linked, but have you considered the possibility that the group which became the Einheduani was only subset of the available population at the time, perhaps even a minority. This would lead to the possiblity that relict populations of the ancient races may exist. I think that this is most likely for the Sleepers. Particulary if some kind of calamity was contemporary with the wane of the elder races. In this case, I think, that a race with advanced cryogenic technology is likely to attempt to preserve some of the population using this technology.
This leads me to belive that you might be a bit quick to dismiss the cryogenic suspension possibility, stated earlier. If the virtual reality technology of the Sleepers was/is as good as we belive, then all that is required to maintain the cohesion of their civilisation is an advanced comunications system. Physical contact would no longer be a requirement, as spacially disparte elements of the popluation could maintain comunication chanels through the VR world. I do not belive that this is an unreasonable possibility.
If my speculation is contridicted by existing facts, I appologise . I have only recently begun reseach into the elder races, and have not yet gathered sufficient data to argue from a particularly solid standpiont. |
Xavier Zedicus
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.02 22:29:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Jove X
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Just dropping in quickly to let you guys and girls know that as far as storyline stuff goes, there will be a good deal of information you can actually go out and discover for yourselves. This is part of the whole idea, after all. From the resources you gather to the items you loot, they will all be pieces of the puzzle.
In short; they won't just build you ships, they'll build you a backstory for these Sleepyheads too. 
Thats a nice touch and everything, but before you go adding new backstory, you might want to fix up some of the loose threads already dangling?
Whats up with the Jove?
How can Lady Sarum be an acceptable Empress when Khanid II got run out of town ... etc
etc.
Cause Sarum concorded those minmitar capitals with an abbaddon. |
Cory Sopapilla
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.04 16:56:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
It's interesting how everyone has ignored the obvious in regards to why they might be called Sleepers
Inactive jump clones? It would be a much faster method of transportation to just pod jump. |
Ralitge boyter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.09 17:26:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Ralitge boyter on 09/02/2009 17:27:49
Edited by: Ralitge boyter on 09/02/2009 17:26:11
Par, did you ever hear about real life archaeology? I mean we know about as much about the culture of the people that used to live on easter island as we know about certain races in EVE. Some times there is simply no information yet, like with the old egyptians till a stone was found with a translation for their writtings. All of a sudden a whole culture presented it self with it's own beleive structure, politics, romances, health care and what not.
The Sleepers are a bit in the middle of those two cultures here on earth, we know quite a bit about the race, thru the things they left behind we found out bits here and there and we where able to work out tiny parts. The blanks are filled in with logical assumptions and most likely posibilities. If that is right who knows but that does not stop people from interpeting the signs and working out what they believe to be true.
CCP has provided the bits and pieces which by others have been costructed to form a whole which the archaeology community in EVE as a whole accept as likely to be correct.
In the next expension CCP is going to provide us more information for us to find...
Will we ever completely understand their culture, I guess so if we can fight them we can most likely also communicate with them and find out more about them. But till that time we will have to do the same as before try and pice the story together from the bits and pices that we already have found.
Remember the dinosaurs where initialy seen as (somtimes fire breathing) dragons, right now the general consensus is that they are the ansestors of birds. Initially the earth was flat and we where the center of the universe. As more evidence is found to prove our theories wrong or right we will correct these perceptions.
What you seem to be asking for is a guide to all the future and past of EVE, all the races that once where or that still are, who they where where they came from and what they wanted did and dreamed of doing. Of course CCP will not provide you that, it would make the whole archaeology part of EVE quite pointless and only a different way to get you hands om new/different modules and more income. Which is exactly what this profestion is not about it is about the finding out more of the back story (in the process you happen to get rewarded of course) and that is what makes it fun for most people to do.
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Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me. |
Britannica
Caldari
Intergalactic Trade and Transport Corporation
The Fifth Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.03.06 00:02:00 -
[133]
there are cyno fields, jumpdrives and jump portal generators, all the sleepers would need is an equivalent of each of these and a ship in each of the W-space systems and they have they own private jump system
as for reasons in the back story for why the sleepers may have left theres the Jove, they were back in space within a few centuries of the collapse (aprox 15,000 years before curent eve date) and their first empire lasted about 9000 years. whos to say the jove didnt push the sleepers out of the known galaxy before they started all those genetic changes. and the sleepers are hostile thinking the jove have returned to finish the job or the sleepers are simply attempting to get even
Curiosity is not the only thing that can kill a cat, stupidity will do the job just as quick |
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